Dominic Deegan, thread VI, Wyrd Snarksters

[Paragraph]

Weiiird.

Thanks for the links, anyway. With these evidences from way past, some of those things that just seemed absolutely tacked-on now actually make sense.

Dex' drug addiction...I figure that Pam, being Good and all, either believed that those rumors really were lies of Serk (like most of us did), or knew for better and overlooked it.

The stripper...that could actually get interesting Ô.o.

Simon

[nooblade]

It's a trap!

[Mewtarthio]

No, I refuse to believe it! It's all part of the plan, you see! Celesto knows exactly what he's doing, and it will be utterly brilliant once we see how this is connected to the grand scheme!

Seriously, it seems that Mookie has learned the whole "slapstick is funnier on people percieved as intelligent" rule from Shortpacked!, but didn't bother learning the "but don't do it to characters your audience should respect and/or fear." Honestly, Celesto is a lot less scary now. Prior to this strip, he could be anywhere in the world and make people explode with his mind. Now he's suddenly being defeated by a totally mundane woman (Granted, Rachel's pretty tough physically, but Celesto can make you explode with his mind!).

I suppose you could argue that Celesto doesn't want to harm Rachel or reveal his abilities for some reason, and he would be pretty weak if you threw out his psychic powers, but it still makes him seem like less of a threat. Imagine, if you will, that Darth Vader had been introduced in the Imperial Day Care Center, and all the little girls he was caring for were dressing him up with pretty bows and jewelry. No amount of planet-exploding death rays or telekinetic neck crunchings could have made him ominous after that.

[MeklorIlavator]

Imagine, if you will, that Darth Vader had been introduced in his younger says as a whiny and angsty teenager who ended up helping destroy the gaurdians of the universe because he couldn't handle the fact that his wife needed a C-section. No amount of planet-exploding death rays or telekinetic neck crunchings could have made him ominous after that.

Fixed that for you.

Honestly, though, these recent arcs are starting to make this thread worse by association. It's like eating at the best restaurant in the world, but getting seated right next to their fish dumpster. Nothing good can come of it.

[Cthclain]

I think it would be pretty hard to derail TIM. He's not exactly the most complex of characters. I mean, unless he suddenly became a charity worker, I'm not sure there's that much you can do to him.

Mind you, Mookie could probably find a way...

Simple give him a Mookie character development (c), with our new derailing embellishing finish. You won't even know the character after this, he be a brand new person all together. Flat characters gain new and "interesting" backstories to explain their "complex" personalities and motivations. New directions will instantly open up to you and will breath life back into your stories.

Yes with Mookie Character Development (c), reconning and development has never been so easy.

Warnings: Mookie Character development (c) has been linked: to Artwork Stagnation, Plot Fatigue, Moral Dissonance, Deus Ex Machina addiction, Large Hamitis, increased Strawmen counts, Unfortunate Implications syndrome, Villain Decay, Schizotech Settings and in some cases users have noted large Snarker growths and voodoo sharks.

Mookie Character Development (c) is not for everyone, consult your editor before use.

[FoE]

Is that the stripper with the kid who Celesto didn't kill in the Storm of Souls storyline?

Ah! So the stripper's kid is Dex's kid, and Dex is a deadbeat dad.

In other news, catgirls are now RUINED FOREVER!

[Gez]

I suppose you could argue that Celesto doesn't want to harm Rachel or reveal his abilities for some reason

The thing is that Celesto, in his Utopia Justifies The Means personality, is against the corrupt and dishonest; not against the simply goofy ones. While Rachel's obsession with turning seers into catboytoys is quite undignified, it isn't evil or corrupt, and it would be even more out of character for Celesto to escape it by employing Full Body Explosion than it was to go get some Amazonian Nookie with Rachel in the first place.

One could argue that, if it would be even more out of character, then why didn't Mookie go this way? My answer would be that it would be too predictable. Further, the extra character derailment didn't have as much appeal as inflicting this. In a way, Mookie still chose -- with his infallible skill -- the alternative that resulted in the worst writing.

[Tom_Violence]

I have have something of a sneaking suspicion that Mookie might well magic away this little mistake by showing us tomorrow that it never actually happened, but was just in Rachel's imagination instead.

[Friv]

I have have something of a sneaking suspicion that Mookie might well magic away this little mistake by showing us tomorrow that it never actually happened, but was just in Rachel's imagination instead.

Nah. On a scale of "1 to Things Mookie Has Ruined", this isn't more than a 4.Rillian3 - retconning requires a level of at least 8.2Jayden to be considered.

[Clockwork_Seal]

In before Celesto sees that Dex once punched a stripper and the 'righteous wrath' that tries to ensue.

[Mr. Scaly]

Celesto must have infinite patience to put up with that sort of thing with nothing more than a scowl.

[Paragraph]

Celesto must have infinite patience to put up with that sort of thing with nothing more than a scowl.

It's not THAT worse than being trapped for a seeming eternity of endless pain in a realm made of pure, distilled INSANITY.

Or maybe it is. Though truth to be told, I would let most women do anything to me as long as they do me, too .

Simon

[kukn]

Mookie's Postulate: Degrade characters whenever possible.

Corollary: Mookie's Postulate is always possible.


The methods of degrading vary a bit.

edit: It is irrelevant whether it would be plausible for Celesto to be in such a position, to not act. It is not good storytelling. It is awful storytelling actually. Mookie gave his last dramatic character pink fluffy bunny ears (that should be a trope, although here it's even meant literally... goodness). He's destroyed the last vestiges of dramatic potential his 7-8 years of worldbuilding gave him (he started with this erratically systematic destruction at the point of Supergreg, imho).

[Raz_Fox]

Confessions of a Dominic Deegan liker! Dun dun dun DUN!

...Okay, I probably got yer attention there. Allow me to explain. I'd heard tales of how bad DD was and how it should be mocked whenever possible. So, naturally, Raz's curiosity popped up and started poking me. I finally flung up my hands in surrender last week and started reading it piece-by-piece. My final verdict:

Alright. Going downhill, but salvageable.

Don't get me wrong, it's nowhere near Order of the Stick or Girl Genius - probably a little under The Wotch. Luna's whiny, there is Deus ex Machina and some of the arcs are uninteresting. Dominic himself I kept trying to remember that he was the big bad Marty Sue, but I ended up forgetting and liking him a bit after The War in Hell. But, for me at least, there is a redeeming factor.

The supporting characters. I actually liked Spark, Quilt, Gregory, Donovan and Bumper. I groaned at any of their puns, but those characters actually had a likeable personality and a sense of humor. I laughed out loud at Detective Quilt several times in the Oracle Hunter arc. I was actually glad that I had read DD for the antics of Gregory, Quilt's lovable idiocy and Donovan's pink coat.

I'm not here to say to you all, "Stop it! Dominic Deegan is innocent!" I'm just going to mention to y'all that Your Miliage May Vary. There are those weird teenage girls who actually like Twilight, as scary as that thought may be. I enjoyed it enough to occasionally snark upon it, occasionally defend it's better points. For me, this ain't serious business. This is just choosing to enjoy what I enjoy.

I may check up on DD once a month or something, not nearly as often as my Top Three Webcomics. But, and I feel weird for saying this in a thread of snarkers, I do like it. Even though the last arc was lame and this one isn't beginning well.

Of course, you could charge me with insanity for actually liking the Supergreg arc. Don't throw anything heavy or sharp, please. *Ducks*

[Fangly]

Confessions of a Dominic Deegan liker! Dun dun dun DUN!

Of course, you could charge me with insanity for actually liking the Supergreg arc. Don't throw anything heavy or sharp, please. *Ducks*

I doubt anyone's really going to criticize your enjoyment of DD. Several people here do enjoy the comic to some extent, and there are several links on the front page that welcome and encourage those who enjoy DD to the thread. However, we do have a tendency to corrupt (eh Paragraph?). If you stick around, there's a good chance your enjoyment of DD will change.


But anyways, welcome and such. Different opinions are often refreshing.

[Trazoi]

I think Raz_Fox that there aren't many Dominic Deegan haters here. Snark isn't quite the same thing. I think it's just an alternative way to enjoy the comic. I know there's plenty of webcomics out there that just aren't plain interesting enough to warrant this level of interest.

I got interested in Dominic Deegan back in the Oracle Hunter arc, back when the current thread here was a bajillion posts long and I couldn't help feeling curious about what everyone was discussing. I'm also trying to expand my knowledge of current webcomics to help me write the script for one of my own. However it's only recently I've got up to systematically working through the archive. I'm currently quite a ways into the Battle for Barthis plot-line (that storyline just seems to go on and on and on). I'll give a post with my full impressions once I've caught up to today in a few days time.

But at the moment, I can see how Dominic Deegan could have a large following of fans up to this point. It's like a midday soap opera, except set in a manga inspired fantasy world rather than a southern U.S. state. If you approach it with this mindset and ignore the logical holes (which you have to do with any soap ) then it can get quite compelling at times.

And I also agree that I like Spark, Donovan and Quilt (there hasn't been much Bumper at the moment). I also don't mind Scarlatti as an interesting character, and I liked Runcible Spoon's brief cameo.

My main gripe storywise at this point is that the plot arcs are dragging on and on (well, I am still in the Battle for Barthis concert ), and if you think about the comic deeply there are many... unfortunate implications. I'm starting to see why people here have developed such an elaborate caste system for the cast of the comic, where someone's actions are good or bad depends purely on their relationship and the subsequent reactions of the main characters.

Still, I can see this being enjoyable if you take it as a bit of light soap opera and don't think too deeply about the implications of the plotlines. However I think it's a bit more fun to disassemble via snark here . It's still in the So Bad it's Good category, which strangely still puts it in the top quarter of webcomics I've read - there's a lot of utter dreck out there in webcomic land.

[Gez]

Again, I fully enjoy Dominic Deegan. I find it poorly written and poorly plotted and on an ever downward slop quality-wise, but that is precisely the reason why I like it. Finding out how Mookie will sabotage his own comic is entertaining. So, it's for completely "meta" reasons, but I like Dominic Deegan.

[Mewtarthio]

Confessions of a Dominic Deegan liker! Dun dun dun DUN!

...Okay, I probably got yer attention there. Allow me to explain. I'd heard tales of how bad DD was and how it should be mocked whenever possible. So, naturally, Raz's curiosity popped up and started poking me. I finally flung up my hands in surrender last week and started reading it piece-by-piece. My final verdict:

Alright. Going downhill, but salvageable.

You know, I think Winterwind once had the same opinion. Try re-reading the vacation arc, only read just one strip at a time, and try to forget the ending so you have no idea when the nightmare will end.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Tramp Watch
People on Rachel's "To Sex" List
- People with troubling pasts
- Intellectuals

Question: are there members in either the first or second Caste that Rachel would not do? All I can think of are Quilt and Spark - and yes, I'm counting the women too.

Moving on...

After having sex with Rachel, Celesto is still not on a first-name basis with her.

Gregory's line "Rachel has nothing but good times waiting for us" is really squicky. I thought Rachel was his best friend, not his booty call

[Clockwork_Seal]

Of course, you could charge me with insanity for actually liking the Supergreg arc.

I didn't hate the supergreg arc until the pointless exposition (with all the unfortunate implications it entailed) and the vilifying of Pam for daring to force Dommykins to suffer trivial repercussions for his actions (which, as I'm sure most people noticed, he stopped doing as soon as he felt like it).

If that nonsense had ever happened, it would've been better than a number of arcs that preceded it.

I actually liked Spark, Quilt, Gregory, Donovan and Bumper.

When is the last time any of those characters appeared in the comic?

Bear in mind, using the same name and general design for what is otherwise a completely different character does not count as having the same character.

That said, I miss Spark and Quilt. Donovan's always been too irrelevant to really stand out. Mostly because Miranda generally shows up when he is there, and I utterly despise both of the sub-arcs which prominently feature him. That being Battle for Barthis (concert especially) and LOL PREEMPTIVE ADULTERY.

I'm just going to mention to y'all that Your Miliage May Vary.

Please don't. It's okay to like it, but there's no reason to try to justify it to us. If you like it, just like it and enjoy that you do. We really don't need to be reminded that some people like silly things every time someone pops up who likes them.

[Raz_Fox]

@Fangly: Thank you! Just to clarify, I was ducking for admitting I liked Supergreg.

@Trazoi: I don't think I said haters. Sorry if that was implied. I don't like Soap Operas much, but that may be some of the appeal, I admit. Oh, and you think Battle for Barthis drags on? I don't want to be anywhere near you when you start The War in Hell. That just seemed to never end!

@Mewthario: ...Sweet merciful Gkika. That... just... *Raz_Fox's head asplode*

I can see why so many snark at it now. That was certainly an interesting perspective change.

@Clockwork_Seal: I just haven't seen a lot of people who just like it for the comic's sake, instead of mercilessly snarking at it. And I just decided to justify it for fun and to see why y'all felt the way you did. That last paragraph felt a bit harsh, by the way.



To clarify: I don't think you all are haters of DD, but I didn't see a lot of positive posts about it here. I apologize fully if anyone thinks I called them a mindless DD hater who hates with all of their soul.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Please don't. It's okay to like it, but there's no reason to try to justify it to us. If you like it, just like it and enjoy that you do. We really don't need to be reminded that some people like silly things every time someone pops up who likes them.

But if they don't justify their appreciation for DD, then we won't know why people do still like it.

One liked it because he only remembered the stuff from years ago.

Another used to like it, until we opened his eyes

Raz seems to like it because he reads it once a month. That might be the most reasonable way to read DD, to be honest. It allows you to skim past the boring stuff, and not dwell on any one strip for too long. Heck, the main reason we convert people to snarking is because we deconstruct every single strip, revealing all the flaws and continuity errors that reveal that Mookie just doesn't care.

If there is ever a webcomic that benefits from Bellisario's Maxim, it is DD.

[averagejoe]

Of course, you could charge me with insanity for actually liking the Supergreg arc. Don't throw anything heavy or sharp, please. *Ducks*

Okay, I was with you until here, but now I know you're just screwing with us.

Edit:

I can see why so many snark at it now. That was certainly an interesting perspective change.

So it starts.

[Clockwork_Seal]

But if they don't justify their appreciation for DD, then we won't know why people do still like it.

I was trying to refer to the whole 'different strokes for different folks' angle. I'm reasonably certain that everyone here understands that, and it doesn't need to be restated every time someone states their views. It's like people automatically assume that we aren't going to respect their right to have an opinion unless they remind us to.

That's the justification to which I was referring, not the 'this is why I like it.' Any communication error in this regard is likely my fault.

Edit: Also, in regard to the tvtropes link, I have always preferred 'Poe wrote on both' as an answer to the riddle that is mentioned.

[Trazoi]

Question: are there members in either the first or second Caste that Rachel would not do? All I can think of are Quilt and Spark - and yes, I'm counting the women too.

Given Quilt has personality characteristics of his components he was effectively slaughtered by Jacob mutliple times. I think he qualifies for having a troubled past. And as for Spark - have you blotted out the last panel of the current comic? Rachel's clearly got a cat fetish.

Raz_Fox: Nah, I didn't think you were calling us meanie-heads. I like to think of this thread as being full of DD fans of a different stripe, kind of like how you could have an Ed Wood fan club (of Plan 9 from Outer Space fame), or people who are "fans" of Eye of Argon (okay, maybe not that far...)

[Helanna]

Confessions of a Dominic Deegan liker! Dun dun dun DUN!

It's okay! You're not alone! I just tend to lurk, that's all.

See, I'm in a bit of a conundrum here.

Try re-reading the vacation arc, only read just one strip at a time, and try to forget the ending so you have no idea when the nightmare will end.

@Mewthario: ...Sweet merciful Gkika. That... just... *Raz_Fox's head asplode*

Thinking about having to do this is what made me realize why so many people don't like (or like to snark, or other forms of anti-fans) this comic. That would have been . . . awful. Also, this

Heck, the main reason we convert people to snarking is because we deconstruct every single strip, revealing all the flaws and continuity errors that reveal that Mookie just doesn't care.

may have something to do with it. Now, I also would like to read it about once a month, because that would lessen the pain of having to read one boring strip at a time and makes the actual good and funny strips seem better and closer together.

But then I'd miss out on all the snarking!! And I can't miss that! But I think reading one strip at a time will quickly destroy my liking for this comic. Oh, what to do . . .

Man, this is why I love OOTS. It pulled a successful Cerebus Syndrome, AND it still remained the funniest comic I know of, with several punchlines per comic. Why can't all webcomics be as good?

[Khosan]

I dunno what you people are talking about. There's clearly only 7 panels in today's comic.

[Trazoi]

A big reason for why I think it's very hard to make a pure dramatic webcomic is that your readers will fed the story in drips every day (or week, or month for really slow webcomics). It's my one big problem with Goblins - if you read the archive of that webcomic it's fantastic, but if you have to wait a week or two to get the next page of a long battle it seems like the story is going glacially slow.

The only webcomics I've read that manage to tell a good story with good characters and worked on a strip-by-strip basis are the ones that fuse it with comedy; you've then got the joke to make each individual strip worthwhile, but the story and characters to tie the whole thing together and keep your readers coming back.

Dominic Deegan almost has the right formula, but there are periods that are much too dry, and the jokes fall flat way too often (what's with the alliteration?). And recently it seems all the happy-go-lucky fun characters are in hiding. The only one I remember seeing in recent strips is Gregory, and he's been in a mopey mood.

[HidaTsuzua]

Gregory's line "Rachel has nothing but good times waiting for us" is really squicky. I thought Rachel was his best friend, not his booty call

Friends with benefits. You know how Greg likes being "guided."

[Mewtarthio]

Tramp Watch
People on Rachel's "To Sex" List
- People with troubling pasts
- Intellectuals

Question: are there members in either the first or second Caste that Rachel would not do? All I can think of are Quilt and Spark - and yes, I'm counting the women too.

Let me state your question in more general terms: Are there members in either the First or Second Caste that anybody above Fourth Caste would not do? Exceptions made for the women, because Szark is gay.

Gregory's line "Rachel has nothing but good times waiting for us" is really squicky. I thought Rachel was his best friend, not his booty call

By sheer coincidence, I just finished watching that episode of Angel where the part-demon guy's touch turns men into violent misogynists. I'm just saying...

@Mewthario: ...Sweet merciful Gkika. That... just... *Raz_Fox's head asplode*

*checks the box marked "Wednesday"*