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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    afroakuma's Avatar

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    Default Revised Ninja (Taking Ninjutsu Contributions) [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    The debate drew my attention - judge my fix. I'll follow through with jutsus if the overall concept is considered solid.

    Round Two

    For your approval,

    The Ninja
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Ninjutsu


    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Honed mind, Weapon Finesse, always ready, trapfinding

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Evasion

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Uncanny dodge|
    1

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Evasive rush|
    2

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Evasive reflexes, muted presence, honed mind +1, always ready +2

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Improved uncanny dodge, mute breath|
    3

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Sniper

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Hide in plain sight|
    4

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Improved evasion, uncanny movement

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Faint presence 5%, honed mind +2, always ready +3|
    5

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Improved muted presence

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Shadow rush|
    6

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Master uncanny dodge

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    ||
    7

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Fatal Rush, faint presence 10%, honed mind +3, always ready +4

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    ||
    8

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Greater muted presence

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    ||
    9

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Dead breath

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |Master evasion, faint presence 15%, honed mind +4, always ready +5|
    10
    [/table]

    Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex). Skill points: (6+Int mod) x 4 at first level, 6+Int mod each level thereafter.

    Hit Die: d6

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ninjas are proficient with all simple weapons, any four martial weapons and any two exotic weapons. Ninjas are not proficient with any armor or shield.

    Trapfinding As rogue.

    Weapon Finesse The ninja gets this bonus feat at 1st level.

    Always Ready (Ex) A ninja is ever vigilant. She gains a +1 insight bonus to her initiative at 1st level. This bonus increases by +1 every five levels thereafter.

    Honed Mind (Ex) The ninja adds her Wisdom bonus, if any, to her AC while unencumbered. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter, the ninja adds an additional +1 bonus to AC. This does not stack with a monk's Wisdom bonus to AC. She loses this bonus whenever immobilized or helpless, or when wearing armor or using a shield.

    Evasion (Ex) As monk.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex) As rogue.

    Ninjutsu At third level, a ninja begins to deploy her secret arts. Ninjutsu techniques are passed from master to apprentice, learned through tryst with beings of shadow, acquired through intense training or through schooling. A ninja may pick any jutsu for which she has the preceding jutsu in its family. Alternately, she may select the same jutsu again to acquire another daily use. A ninja without any jutsus in a family may only select the base jutsu of that family.

    Evasive Rush (Ex) At 4th level, the ninja's stealthy movement style adds evasiveness to her fast movement. While charging or running, the ninja is treated as being one size category smaller. This includes attack rolls made at the end of a charge, but does not include grappling, overrun or bull rush attempts made by the ninja. In short, the ninja gains all of the benefits of the lower size category and none of the drawbacks.

    Muted Presence (Su) At 5th level, the ninja acquires a supernatural ability to avoid detection. Casters trying to employ a 3rd level or lower divination spell against a ninja must succeed on a caster level check (DC 10 plus the ninja's class level) or have the spell fail. At 11th level, the ninja mutes divination spells of 6th level or lower, and at 17th level she mutes all divination spells of 9th level or lower.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex) As rogue.

    Mute Breath (Su) At 6th level the ninja can speak silently to her allies and foes. Without so much as moving her lips, the ninja may employ a one-way message effect to any creature within 100 ft. This message is blocked only by airtight separation - lead, metal and magical silence will not stop the recipient from hearing the message, although a magical barrier around the ninja will stop the breath from escaping. The ninja may use this ability as long as she can breathe.

    Sniper (Ex) At 7th level, a ninja becomes more practiced at the art of striking from the shadows. The ninja gains a bonus equal to her level on Hide checks made to stay hidden after making a ranged attack from hiding, and may Hide as an immediate action. This allows the ninja to strike, move and hide, or to make a full attack and hide.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) While in a crowd, in fog, snow, rain or anything less than bright illumination, a ninja of 8th level or higher may use the Hide skill even while being observed.

    Improved Evasion (Ex) As monk.

    Uncanny Movement (Su) At 9th level, the ninja acquires a preternatural climbing skill. She may spider climb at will without time limitation.

    Faint Presence (Su) At 10th level, a ninja's skill at remaining hidden, combined with her link to the powers of Shadow, serves to make her more difficult to strike. She gains a permanent 5% concealment, which stacks with effects such as blur and displacement, as well as with total concealment. At 15th level, this increases to 10%, and at 20th level becomes 15%. This concealment is due to having a shadowy, insubstantial body, and so does not count as concealment for the purposes of Hide checks.

    Shadow Rush (Ex) At 12th level, the ninja is a blur while moving fast. While charging or running, the ninja is treated as being under the effect of a blur spell. This effect allows neither a saving throw nor spell resistance, and cannot be penetrated by see invisibility or even true seeing. A shadow rush negates the penalty to hide while attacking, running etc. The effect ends with the ninja's turn.

    Master Uncanny Dodge (Ex) At 13th level, a ninja acquires impossible reflexes. Three times per day, she may add a +5 dodge bonus to either her AC or her Reflex saves for one round. She may declare this ability as a free action in response to an attack or effect, if she so chooses.

    Fatal Rush (Ex) At 15th level, the ninja may pounce on a foe after charging. She may make a full attack at the end of a charge if desired.

    Dead Breath (Ex) At 19th level, the ninja may take 20 on any Move Silently check.

    Master Evasion (Ex) Once per day, when a ninja would be allowed a Reflex save for partial damage, she may elect to avoid the effect altogether.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2008-11-15 at 12:05 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    You forgot to include the Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.

    Fortunately, no matter what abilities you give them, they won't nullify the pirate ability, "Immunity to Ninjas."
    Last edited by Talya; 2008-10-18 at 10:01 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    hide in plain sight doesn't appear on the progression table. I'm guessing it belongs at level 14. "As ranger" including natural terrain only?

    Does permanent concealment have any potential abuseable interactions with hide checks or sudden strike?

    What/where are the ninjutsu abilities?
    Last edited by sleepy; 2008-10-18 at 10:03 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Ninjutsu

    Ninjas use special techniques known as ninjutsu, some of which are practiced maneuvers, while others are supernatural effects drawn from the power of the Plane of Shadow. Where a jutsu would emulate a particular spell, treat that effect as the appropriate spell at its lowest printed caster level. A ninja uses Wisdom for all supernatural effects except where otherwise noted. The ninja's caster level is equal to her class level.

    When a ninja learns the highest jutsu of a ninjutsu family, she may immediately elect to learn a new base jutsu from any other family.

    Jutsus are divided into four classes:

    Personal Ninjutsu are a fundamental power the ninja acquires. These are extraordinary abilities unless otherwise noted.

    Martial Ninjutsu are complex physical arts, relying on no special power. These are all extraordinary abilities.

    Energy Ninjutsu call or focus a form of energy, such as is needed for a conjuration or an evocation. These are supernatural abilities except where noted.

    Shadow Ninjutsu draw from or employ the Plane of Shadow. Some of them only work while on a coexistant plane; others siphon Shadow power and can be employed nearly anywhere. These are all supernatural abilities.

    A jutsu always requires a standard action and one free hand to perform, unless it is constant or noted otherwise. If the jutsu takes more or less time to use, a Speed listing will be present in its info block.

    Jutsus are either usable a certain number of times per day or are active constantly; this latter is usually the case for Personal Ninjutsu.

    Selecting Ninjutsu
    When a ninja acquires a new jutsu, she may choose from any ninjutsu family. The ninja may only acquire the lowest jutsu in a family initially; she may subsequently choose the next highest jutsu in that family. A ninja may also select any jutsu she already knows with daily uses (some exceptions apply for Constant use, and are noted). Doing so allows the ninja to increase the number of daily uses of that jutsu. At will jutsus cannot be selected multiple times.

    Ninjutsu Family:
    Fire Element
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    Ki Flame
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Fire Element 1
    Use: 2/day
    Speed: Free action

    As the spell produce flame. The ninja may add the fire damage to an unarmed strike; doing so expends one minute of duration as the melee attack would.

    Phoenix Spread
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Fire Element 2
    Use: 2/day

    As the spell burning hands only damage is in d6 instead of d4. Add the ninja's Wis bonus to total damage.

    Eyes of Warmth
    Personal Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Fire Element 3
    Use: Constant

    The ninja gains darkvision 120 ft. and sees thermally.

    Chains of Flame
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Fire Element 4
    Use: 2/day

    As the spell scorching ray only damage is in d8 instead of d6. The ninja adds her Wis bonus to the ranged attack rolls.

    Art of Flames Dancing
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Fire Element
    Use: 1/day
    Speed: Full action

    As the spell summon monster V used to summon a Medium fire elemental. The ninja gains immunity to fire for the duration of the ninjutsu, and the fire elemental can move freely through her square. The fire elemental cannot move more than 30 ft. from the ninja. A 12th level ninja may instead summon a Large fire elemental, and a 15th level ninja may summon a Huge fire elemental.

    Ninjutsu Family: Shadow Touch
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    Shadow Fade
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Shadow Hand 1
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Free action

    The ninja emits a film of Shadow over her weapon, causing it to fade out slightly. Difficulty seeing the weapon denies the foe its Dex bonus to AC. Shadow Fade lasts for the entire round.

    Shadow Guise
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Shadow Hand 2
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Full action

    The ninja passes her hand over her face, covering herself with a film of Shadow. This replicates a disguise self spell and imparts a +2 circumstance bonus to the ninja's AC for the duration.

    Shadow Knife Hand
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Shadow Hand 3
    Use: 2/day

    The ninja makes a melee touch attack, stabbing a Shadow-powered hand into her foe. This attack is made using an unarmed strike. When choosing this ninjutsu, the ninja must select an ability score to affect. The melee attack deals 1d8 temporary damage to that ability score (1d4 damage if Con is selected). Multiple selections of Shadow Knife Hand can either add more uses to the current type or grant two new uses against a second ability.

    Shadow Arms
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Shadow Hand 4
    Use: 2/day

    The ninja makes a ranged touch attack to start a grapple with two arms of Shadow. The arms are treated as a Large creature, and their strength score is equivalent to the ninja's Str +20. If successful in grappling, the ninja may take other actions while the grapple continues. Each round the arms maintain their grapple, they do 2d6+Str bonus bludgeoning damage to the grappled foe. If the grapple fails at any time, the arms vanish. Being made of Shadow, the arms can only be seen using see invisibility or equivalent, and are immune to attack spells, though dispel magic can remove them. The maximum range of this ability is 60 ft. and the maximum duration is 1 round/level. This ability is the equivalent of a 6th level spell.

    Shadow Shove
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Shadow Hand 5
    Use: 1/day

    The ninja makes a melee touch attack, pushing with a Shadow-powered hand against her foe. On a success, the ninja and her foe make opposed Str checks. The ninja adds her Wis bonus, and her foe takes a -4 penalty. If the opponent loses the Str check, it is pushed bodily into the Plane of Shadow (or to a point one mile away if on another plane) for 1 minute. If the ninja has employed Shadow Arms against the foe, she does not need to make a melee touch attack. Instead, she may use the arms' Strength score for the Str check. If she does, the arms continue their grapple on the Plane of Shadow.

    Ninjutsu Family: Snake Fang
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    Art of Cobras
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Snake Fang 1
    Use: Constant

    The ninja is not at risk when using poisons. Increase the save DC of the ninja's poisons by 2. The ninja may make a Craft (alchemy) check (DC equal to save DC of poison) to separate a dose into two working doses. On a failure, the original dose remains potent, but cannot be experimented with again.

    Serpent's Venom
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Snake Fang 2
    Use: Constant

    The ninja increases primary poison damage by 1 and secondary poison damage by 2 on her poisoned attacks. Secondary damage takes effect in 30 seconds (5 rounds) instead of one minute.

    Deep Fang
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Snake Fang 3
    Use: 3/day

    Wounds dealt by the ninja's slashing and piercing weapons this round continue bleeding, dealing 1 temporary Con damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are unaffected.

    Lethal Cloud
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Snake Fang 4
    Use: 3/day

    The ninja may keep within her mouth an inhaled or contact poison, which she may exhale in a 15 ft. cone. This poison remains in affected squares for one minute before dissipating. The ninja cannot be harmed by the poison while it is in her mouth, but could be harmed if she enters the lingering cloud. Creatures within the cloud may make a Reflex save (DC 10 + BAB + ninja's Con mod) to leap 5' out of the area. Moderate winds may dispel the cloud.

    Cobra Hand
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Snake Fang 5
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Swift action

    The ninja conjures a toxic acid, which transforms her hand into a cobra's head. This magical weapon strikes with a melee touch attack at a +5 bonus. Creatures struck by the cobra take 3d6 + the ninja's Con bonus in acid damage, and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 ninja class level + ninja's Con bonus) against the cobra's poison, which deals 1d6 primary ability damage and 1d8 secondary ability damage. The cobra head vanishes at the end of the ninja's turn. When selecting this jutsu, the ninja chooses Str, Dex, Int or Wis for the poison's effect. The ninja may elect for a different poison on subsequent selections or take more uses of the same one.

    Ninjutsu Family: Air Element
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    Gale Shield
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Air Element 1
    Use: 2/day

    As the spell wind wall.

    Ki Squall
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Air Element 2
    Use: 1/day
    Speed: Immediate action

    As the spell gust of wind.

    Hawk's Winds
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Air Element 3
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Free action

    A ranged weapon used by the ninja is propelled by a powerful wind to the target. The added force adds five damage to the attack and guarantees a critical on a successful hit. In moderate or stronger winds (including passing through the other side of a wind wall, the weapon deals an additional 5 damage. Creatures immune to critical hits will not be affected by the guaranteed critical.

    Ki Gale Blast
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Air Element 4
    Use: 1/day
    Speed: Immediate action

    As the spell gust of wind, except all size categories are affected as the next lower category, and saves against the blast are made at a -6 penalty.

    Art of Wind Command
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Air Element 5
    Use: 1/day
    Speed: Immediate action

    As the spells control winds and air walk. The ninja is unaffected by any wind effect she has produced, and so may air walk unmolested by her own windstorm. Similarly, any effect she produces that has the Air descriptor functions normally in the whipping winds. The Art of Wind Command has a duration of 1 minute/level, and the air walk effect functions for the ninja only.

    Ninjutsu Family: Void Element
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    Ki Emptiness
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Void Element 1
    Use: 3/day

    As the spell sanctuary cast on the ninja. The Will save DC is 15 + the ninja's Wis modifier.

    Burning of the Void
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Void Element 2
    Use: 2/day
    Speed: Immediate action

    As the spell chill touch, except that the ninja may elect to imbue her weapon with the effect. Additionally, each hit deals an extra +1d6 cold damage.

    Void Palm
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Void Element 3
    Use: 2/day
    Speed: Immediate action

    The ninja may nullify any single ray, line, burst or cone produced by a spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability, unless that effect is always active (i.e. a beholder's antimagic eye, a medusa's gaze.) The ninja may only nullify such an attack if it would enter her square. The effect is terminated at the point where it meets the ninja - creatures ahead of the ninja in the effect's path suffer the normal consequences. The ninja may also nullify a targeted dispel magic (aimed at the ninja only) or magic missiles, but not area effects such as squares, cubes, fogs etc. that form complete.

    Energy Negation
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Void Element 4
    Use: 3/day

    As protection from energy. The ninja does not have to choose an energy type at the time she selects this ninjutsu.

    Frigid Emptiness
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family:
    Void Element 5
    Use: 1/day

    As cone of cold; half of the damage is negative energy damage.

    Ninjutsu Family: Star Ascendant
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    Cloud Vault Strike
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family: Star Ascendant 1
    Use: At will

    The ninja may make a Jump check as part of a standard attack against a Large or larger creature. The DC is 12 +4 for every size category above Medium. On a success, the ninja leaps upwards while attacking, adding 2 + the ninja's Str bonus to to her attack roll. The attack deals an additional 2 damage per size category above Medium and adds the ninja's Str bonus.

    Step of the Sky
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family: Star Ascendant 2
    Use: 3/day

    As the jump spell cast on the ninja.

    Leap of the Stellar Aspirant
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family: Star Ascendant 3
    Use: At will

    The ninja combines a Jump check (DC 20) with a Tumble check (DC 20) to leap over a foe. On a success on either check, the ninja performs a spinning leap over her foe while striking with a weapon, landing on the square behind her foe without provoking an attack of opportunity. Modify the DCs of these checks by adding 4 for each size category above Medium and subtracting 4 for each size category below. A failed check wastes a standard action and provokes an attack of opportunity. When using the full attack action, the ninja may continuously spin-jump her foe as long as she can end such a jump in an unoccupied space. If doing so, the foe becomes flat-footed until its next turn.

    Art of Heaven's Path
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family: Star Ascendant 4
    Use: 2/day

    As the fly spell cast on the ninja. The ninja also gains Flyby Attack as a bonus feat.

    Dance of the Cyclone
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family: Star Ascendant 5
    Use: 2/day

    When moving using her Fly speed, the ninja may make a Whirlwind Attack (as the feat) as a standard action during her move. The ninja also gains Improved Flyby Attack as a bonus feat.

    Ninjutsu Family: Walk of Hours
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    Steps of the Lily
    Martial Ninjutsu
    Family: Walk of Hours 1
    Use: Constant

    The ninja may take a 10 ft. move instead of a 5 ft. step.

    Waltz of the Moment
    Personal Ninjutsu
    Family: Walk of Hours 2
    Use: Constant

    The ninja gets a +1 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves.

    Step Ahead of Time
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family: Walk of Hours 3
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Swift action

    As the haste spell cast on the ninja.

    Art of Twin Time
    Shadow Ninjutsu
    Family: Walk of Hours 4
    Use: 3/day
    Speed: Free action

    The ninja can reroll a single roll that she has just made after seeing the effect of the original roll. The ninja must take the result of the new roll, even if it is worse than the original.

    Timelost Plunge
    Energy Ninjutsu
    Family: Walk of Hours 5
    Use: 2/day

    The ninja may distort time around a creature that she hits with a successful melee touch attack. The victim must make a Will save (DC 17 plus the ninja's Wis bonus) or be cut free from precision time. The creature's chronological fix begins to waver, distorting its perception and cognition. Living creatures and moving objects appear subject to a displacement effect (50% miss chance), immobile objects are blurred (20% miss chance) and detail is impossible to make out, rendering Spot checks, sneak attacks, reading and listening impossible. Additionally, the creature has a -6 penalty on AC and Reflex saves and must make a Concentration check (DC 17+ninja's Wis bonus+spell level) to cast spells. Blind-Fight, tremorsense and blindsight are negated while in a chronic blur. Chronic blurring lasts 2d6 rounds plus the ninja's Wis bonus. This ability is the equivalent of a 7th level spell.


    Latest edit: Will be adding more at some point. I forgot how fun Void Palm was until just recently.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2009-01-16 at 09:53 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    You forgot to include the Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.

    Fortunately, no matter what abilities you give them, they won't nullify the pirate ability, "Immunity to Ninjas."
    Heh.

    Pirate fans, still trying to compensate for their savage beatings at the hands of Irish ninjas centuries ago.

    Oddly, immunity to ninjas, while always active, only means the subject can't be a ninja, doing no good against, say, ninja stabbing in the face.

    When asked about it, a Wizards of the Coast editor said "That's not a typo" and vanished into a puff of smoke.
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    Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.

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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Well, considering Immunity to Ninjas is a class feature that says "It does nothing at all" and is gained at level "Infinity + 1", I'd say we're sage.

    And, you know, the Utter Incompetence class feature gained at level 1 doesn't help.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    It looks neat. Why didn't you just give it normal Sneak Attack, though?
    "It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I felt like retaining some of the suck of the original?

    I've already given it access to eclectic skills, a host of selectable supernatural abilities (which you haven't seen yet), a second good save, wicked extra damage and super stealthmode. I felt that the ninja's sudden attack should be a set of shuriken flying in to do 5d4+20+sudden strike, instead of the rogue's melee slash frenzy. The key weakness of sudden strike is that it doesn't work for flanking. This makes the new ninja modal: she can either remain hidden and snipe, do ranged flurries and crack off ninjutsu, or join melee, synchronize with her allies and use Jump, Tumble and precision strike to be a real pain.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    I felt like retaining some of the suck of the original?

    I've already given it access to eclectic skills, a host of selectable supernatural abilities (which you haven't seen yet), a second good save, wicked extra damage and super stealthmode. I felt that the ninja's sudden attack should be a set of shuriken flying in to do 5d4+20+sudden strike, instead of the rogue's melee slash frenzy. The key weakness of sudden strike is that it doesn't work for flanking. This makes the new ninja modal: she can either remain hidden and snipe, do ranged flurries and crack off ninjutsu, or join melee, synchronize with her allies and use Jump, Tumble and precision strike to be a real pain.
    The class is rather good, but what do Jutsus do?

    Are you going to post that soon?

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Sudden Strike Still Sucks.

    Just make it Sneak Attack and be done with it.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    It's supposed to suck, because it's supposed to deprive the ninja of that particular role.

    Rogue = fighting dirty, advantageously = sneak attack

    Scout = rushing into the fray, acquiring tactical advantage = skirmish

    Ninja = stealth, surprise, assassination = sudden strike

    If I give them sneak attack, they're just rogues. Unless you can see a way around that?

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    This is basically a 10 or 5 level prestige class stretched over 20 levels. A lot of the class features seem more like random filler than anything else and the more signature abilities are really lacking due to the 1/day restraint.

    Sudden Attack As ninja.
    Sudden Strike still sucks, but is worse off since there are no other abilities that trigger it like the old ghost step.

    Honed Mind (Ex) The ninja adds her Wisdom bonus, if any, to her AC while unencumbered. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter, the ninja adds an additional +1 bonus to AC. This does not stack with a monk's Wisdom bonus to AC. She loses this bonus whenever immobilized or helpless, or when wearing armor or using a shield.
    This is one thing that I like and that sets this apart from the rogue, but it does make the ninja more of a rogue/monk type class. I would suggest you make this a prestige class for the rogue that gives monk-like abilities like this one.

    Shuriken Specialization A ninja is an expert on the sharpening, care and use of shuriken. In the hands of a ninja, a shuriken deals 1d4 damage, and has a critical range of 19-20/x2.
    While flavorful this isn't that great, a 1d4 isn't much better than 1d2 since your still counting on your extra damage to make the attack matter. Rather than increasing the damage done by shurikens I would make them trigger Sudden Strike easier or something along those lines.

    Flurry of Shuriken (Ex) When unarmored, a ninja may unleash a flurry of shuriken at the expense of accuracy. She may throw one additional shuriken at her highest base attack bonus, but each throw takes a -2 penalty. The ninja must use a full attack action to throw a flurry of shuriken. When a ninja reaches 11th level, she may add an additional throw at her highest base attack bonus.
    This is better than the Shuriken Specialization, but it's still a weak ability. If you do change the Specialization to allow for easier Sudden Strike triggering than this ability would be a lot better. As it is now it is completely worthless unless your using poison or you multiclassed into rogue for sneak attack.

    Acrobatic (Ex) The ninja gains a +2 bonus to Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently and Tumble checks at level 4. At 8th level, these bonuses increase to +4, and at 12th they increase to +6.
    This is one of those random "nothing" abilities, this is pure unneeded filler.

    Sniper (Ex) At 4th level, a ninja becomes more practiced at the art of striking from the shadows. The ninja gains a bonus equal to her level on Hide checks made to stay hidden after making a ranged attack from hiding.
    This is a pretty useless ability. At 4th level you have 7 ranks, assuming a 16 dex and the Acrobatic ability (how does Acrobatics help with hiding?) you have a total of a +9 to Hide giving a total of -7 on your hide check (+9 base, +4 from this ability and -20 from hiding after an attack) to stay hidden, with a 10 you've got an amazing 3 on your hide check.

    Muted Presence (Su) At 5th level, the ninja acquires a supernatural ability to avoid detection. Casters trying to employ a 3rd level or lower divination spell against a ninja must succeed on a caster level check (DC 10 plus the ninja's class level) or have the spell fail. At 11th level, the ninja mutes divination spells of 6th level or lower, and at 17th level she mutes all divination spells of 9th level or lower.
    I like this ability...yeah, that's it.

    Proficiency At 6th level and every six levels thereafter, a ninja chooses a non-class skill. The ninja immediately gains that skill as a class skill and acquires four ranks in it.
    What? This is just more filler, this pretty useless all it does is give +4 to some skill, its a bit better than a free Skill Focus except its limited to skills you aren't going to use.

    Synchronize (Ex) A ninja can use her expertise in combat to cooperate best with her allies. Each round, the ninja may take a single aid another action as a free action if an ally stands within 5 ft. She loses this ability whenever she would lose her Dex bonus to AC.
    Where did this come from? This ability makes no sense for a ninja...it is effectively an ability that gives an adjacent ally +2 on some skill check or attack roll, why? This just seems like more filler, at 7th level a +2 isn't that much and if you are adjacent to an ally you most likely aren't playing to a ninja's strength which is hiding. This ability will almost never come into play, its a waste of space.

    Precision Attack (Ex) At level 8, when a ninja makes an attack while unencumbered, not flanked and using neither armor nor shield, she gains a +1 competence bonus to attack and damage rolls. At level 16, the bonus increases to +2.
    Wow...a free Weapon Focus at 8th level with restrictions, oh and Weapon Specialization at 16th! Seriously? This is more unnecessary filler that doesn't do anything significant or have anything to do with being a ninja.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) While in anything less than bright illumination, a ninja of 14th level or higher may use the Hide skill even while being observed.
    Finally a true ninja ability, but really they should get this earlier, its too late to be effective. By this time any respectful ninja will have some way of getting at-will or close to it invisibility via magic items to capitalize on Sudden Strike.

    Shadowy Form (Su) At 15th level, a ninja's proficiency with remaining hidden, combined with her link to the powers of Shadow, serves to make her more difficult to strike. She gains a permanent 5% concealment, which stacks with effects such as blur and displacement, as well as with total concealment. At 20th level, this increases to 10%. This concealment is due to having a shadowy, insubstantial body, and so does not count as concealment for the purposes of Hide checks or sudden strike.
    I like it, but again it comes in too late. As a swordsage you can get 20% concealment at 1st level as long as you move and this requires magic items or a friendly wizard to actually do anything, a ninja should get concealment by himself a lot earlier.

    Master Uncanny Dodge (Ex) At 20th level, a ninja acquires impossible reflexes. Once per day, she may add a +10 dodge bonus to either her AC or her Reflex saves for one round. She may declare this ability as a free action in response to an attack or effect, if she so chooses.
    A really neat ability, but its 1/day. This will almost never get used. This is a perfect example of the Nuke Syndrome that looks great on paper, but in practice everyone conserves it and never actually uses it.

    Overall, its a rogue with monk abilities and is severely lacking in what this class claims to do: stealth. This would be a lot better as a prestige class as would the original ninja.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    First off: Don't tell me to do it as a prestige class. Anybody. The point of this exercise is to see if I can make a feasible base class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tartarus
    Sudden Strike still sucks, but is worse off since there are no other abilities that trigger it like the old ghost step.
    I haven't filled in the ninjutsu yet. When I do, you'll have those abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tartarus
    This is one thing that I like and that sets this apart from the rogue, but it does make the ninja more of a rogue/monk type class. I would suggest you make this a prestige class for the rogue that gives monk-like abilities like this one.
    There's the prestige class again: no. And what is a ninja, if not a rogue/monk? With shadowy awesome?

    While flavorful this isn't that great, a 1d4 isn't much better than 1d2 since your still counting on your extra damage to make the attack matter. Rather than increasing the damage done by shurikens I would make them trigger Sudden Strike easier or something along those lines.
    1d4 is somewhat better, though, and makes them a more viable weapon. Especially when combined with Flurry of Shuriken. I don't see how they could trigger Sudden Strike "easier," but they're a ranged weapon that can be thrown en masse by the ninja to trigger his Sudden Strike. At level 14, it worked out to about 67 damage on an average full flurry Sudden Strike.

    This is better than the Shuriken Specialization, but it's still a weak ability. If you do change the Specialization to allow for easier Sudden Strike triggering than this ability would be a lot better. As it is now it is completely worthless unless your using poison or you multiclassed into rogue for sneak attack.
    Again, how would you have me make Sudden Strike better without it being sneak attack? And lest anyone mention it again, allowing it for flanking is right out. That is the rogue's thing. If I give it to the ninja, he's just a rogue, which is what this exercise is trying to avoid.

    I would debate that it is completely worthless, since it is a ranged Flurry of Blows. As the damage is keyed off the ninja's best ability score anyway, I don't see the problem. 1st level, that's 2d4+8 damage, +2/+2 with 18 Dex. At 30' away.

    This is one of those random "nothing" abilities, this is pure unneeded filler.
    Mainly there for the Hide bonus, but also for other class skills which, hey, some people use. I agree that it's filler, but it was filler that was in the original class, so I gave it a bit of extra latitude.

    This is a pretty useless ability. At 4th level you have 7 ranks, assuming a 16 dex and the Acrobatic ability (how does Acrobatics help with hiding?) you have a total of a +9 to Hide giving a total of -7 on your hide check (+9 base, +4 from this ability and -20 from hiding after an attack) to stay hidden, with a 10 you've got an amazing 3 on your hide check.
    No, attempting to snipe without this ability is what's useless. At 4th level, you're not going to be a very good sniper, but still far better than most. By 7th level, assuming full ranks in Hide and same terms otherwise, you have only a -1 penalty to hide after a Sudden Strike.

    I like this ability...yeah, that's it.
    Thanks! I thought the flavor was appropriate.

    What? This is just more filler, this pretty useless all it does is give +4 to some skill, its a bit better than a free Skill Focus except its limited to skills you aren't going to use.
    The main reason this exists is because, in the other thread, one of the biggest quoted weaknesses was UMD. The ninja can access UMD with this ability, as of level 6. Instant four ranks and can take it as a class skill.

    Where did this come from? This ability makes no sense for a ninja...it is effectively an ability that gives an adjacent ally +2 on some skill check or attack roll, why? This just seems like more filler, at 7th level a +2 isn't that much and if you are adjacent to an ally you most likely aren't playing to a ninja's strength which is hiding. This ability will almost never come into play, its a waste of space.
    I concur wholeheartedly; this is really something of a placeholder. Another major complaint is that the ninja is uncooperative; while tyring to figure out another party-helping ability, I left that one in. Sorry about that.

    Wow...a free Weapon Focus at 8th level with restrictions, oh and Weapon Specialization at 16th! Seriously? This is more unnecessary filler that doesn't do anything significant or have anything to do with being a ninja.
    Weapon Focus on everything the ninja uses. Ninjas are supposed to be skilled combatants; it makes sense that they'd get a general bonus to a preferred attack situation.

    Finally a true ninja ability, but really they should get this earlier, its too late to be effective. By this time any respectful ninja will have some way of getting at-will or close to it invisibility via magic items to capitalize on Sudden Strike.
    I'll be moving that earlier.

    I like it, but again it comes in too late. As a swordsage you can get 20% concealment at 1st level as long as you move and this requires magic items or a friendly wizard to actually do anything, a ninja should get concealment by himself a lot earlier.
    Coming into this, I have never seen the swordsage, nor heard anything about Tome of Battle except how unbalanced it is. If anyone concurs with this opinion I'll be glad to adjust it, but I worry about a permanent 1 in 20 chance of just plain not getting hit.

    A really neat ability, but its 1/day. This will almost never get used. This is a perfect example of the Nuke Syndrome that looks great on paper, but in practice everyone conserves it and never actually uses it.
    I would think that, since you can react to a threat by using it, it would see some use. But again, any idea on how to fix it?

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    First off: Don't tell me to do it as a prestige class. Anybody. The point of this exercise is to see if I can make a feasible base class.
    I'm not exactly telling you to make a prestige, I'm telling you that what I'm seeing is a prestige class but stretched to 20 levels. If I ever make mention of the prestige class again I'll try to be more descriptive as to why. As it is, this class has a lot of prestige class elements. Firstly, it is a rogue/monk hybrid, it does absolutely nothing new (except for the divination fooling, but that is pretty minor). Secondly, the focus of this class is extremely limited, no (true) base class is limited in this manner. A rogue can be a a face focusing on disguise, a swashbuckler, a thief, or an assassin among other options. So far, this class attempts to do only one thing: stealth and attack then rinse and repeat. Focusing on one aspect is what prestige classes are for, if you succeed in making a feasible base class it will not focus so much on one aspect. You have to focus on a broad aspect like stealth in general and as an abstract idea, not just hiding in the shadows, but blending into crowds, or looking insignificant.

    One suggestion I would like to make is get rid of Sudden Strike, maybe make a ninjutsu to get it back, but get rid of as a default. I have two reasons for this, firstly it is causing you to narrow you're focus, right now you are too caught up with one definition of what a ninja is which is the way of the prestige class, not the base class. Secondly, I think it detracts from the potential, why can't a ninja be a hidden bodyguard? He doesn't always need to be an assassin, he could be a martial artist who uses judo-like throws to disarm his charge's attackers without him knowing he is threatened. As it is now, Sudden Strike is clogging up the potential, remove it to give you space for more flexible abilities.

    I haven't filled in the ninjutsu yet. When I do, you'll have those abilities.
    Yes, I realize that, but I was working with what I saw.

    There's the prestige class again: no. And what is a ninja, if not a rogue/monk? With shadowy awesome?
    You are thinking too focused, can't a ninja be a guy who walks out in the open, but blends in then goes for the kill? Can't a ninja be a bodyguard who is in the crowd somewhere looking insignificant until trouble shows up? Try to broaden you're idea of a ninja, right now you are too focused for a base class.

    1d4 is somewhat better, though, and makes them a more viable weapon. Especially when combined with Flurry of Shuriken. I don't see how they could trigger Sudden Strike "easier," but they're a ranged weapon that can be thrown en masse by the ninja to trigger his Sudden Strike. At level 14, it worked out to about 67 damage on an average full flurry Sudden Strike.
    By making it easier to pull off Sudden Strike easier I mean allow Shurikens to automatically get the bonus or something, but after thinking through this a bit more I think you should leave the focus of Sudden Strike as I mentioned above.


    Again, how would you have me make Sudden Strike better without it being sneak attack? And lest anyone mention it again, allowing it for flanking is right out. That is the rogue's thing. If I give it to the ninja, he's just a rogue, which is what this exercise is trying to avoid.
    This is another arguement for leaving Sudden Strike in the dust, it is a cheap knock off of rogue, at least Skirmish had a completely different trigger and added an extra bonus, Sudden Strike is just a Sneak Attack with less triggers.

    I would debate that it is completely worthless, since it is a ranged Flurry of Blows. As the damage is keyed off the ninja's best ability score anyway, I don't see the problem. 1st level, that's 2d4+8 damage, +2/+2 with 18 Dex. At 30' away.
    First of all, it is common consensus that Flurry of Blows sucks, this is marginally better because it is ranged, but then the damage is reduced as well from the monk's and its just not what a ninja really is anyway. With the interpetation you seem to be going off of, he is a hit-and-hide sniper, you can't do that with a full-attack.

    No, attempting to snipe without this ability is what's useless. At 4th level, you're not going to be a very good sniper, but still far better than most. By 7th level, assuming full ranks in Hide and same terms otherwise, you have only a -1 penalty to hide after a Sudden Strike.
    Then why not have it as a 7th or 8th level ability? I'm just saying that at 4th level it is useless, anyway sniping is not that great of a tactic anyway unless you give extra damage at very long ranges.

    The main reason this exists is because, in the other thread, one of the biggest quoted weaknesses was UMD. The ninja can access UMD with this ability, as of level 6. Instant four ranks and can take it as a class skill.
    So, why not make it a class skill?

    Weapon Focus on everything the ninja uses. Ninjas are supposed to be skilled combatants; it makes sense that they'd get a general bonus to a preferred attack situation.
    Yeah, but even that isn't much of a bonus at that level, or any level for that matter. Personally I like neat abilities rather than minor +1's and +2's.

    Coming into this, I have never seen the swordsage, nor heard anything about Tome of Battle except how unbalanced it is. If anyone concurs with this opinion I'll be glad to adjust it, but I worry about a permanent 1 in 20 chance of just plain not getting hit.
    I've never heard that ToB was unbalanced without predetermined bias based on fluff. Also, the bonus would not be permanent, it would be a triggered ability like moving at least 30ft or something.


    I would think that, since you can react to a threat by using it, it would see some use. But again, any idea on how to fix it?
    Hmm...it does have that reaction quality which makes it's use more likely, but still I hardly see anything with lower than 3/day get used much. I would suggest cutting the bonus in half and making it a 3/day ability. You might even be able to get away with leaving it as-is except increase the use to 2/day.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    if you want to make sudden strike better without making it sneak attack, just have it give d8's

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afrokuma
    ...Tome of Battle...unbalanced
    HAHAHA, no. They actually make melee characters FUN. And in terms of broken, it's probably one of the most balanced books for the entirety of 3.5e.

    That aside, this class seems really lacking. Still. Lord Tartarus seems to be on the same vein as I am as far as the fixes can go.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tartarus
    I've never heard that ToB was unbalanced
    Must have been the threads I was reading. The only two terms that ever got around were bandied about like cuss words. "Iron Heart" and "White Raven Tactics," I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    They actually make melee characters FUN.
    See, now you've gone and made me curious.

    Well, at the very least, I know this round is a loss. Round 2 will come shortly.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Must have been the threads I was reading. The only two terms that ever got around were bandied about like cuss words. "Iron Heart" and "White Raven Tactics," I believe.
    See, I know why Iron Heart Surge was mentioned. Its just poorly worded. The ability is clearly meant to allow to end one effect on you - sort of a "Shrug it off" type deal. Instead, you can technically use it to end AMF's, gravity, the sun, and time.

    White Raven Tactics is designed to let you help out your allies. Cue people claiming that they count as their own ally.

    It's not broken, though - exploits like that are in every book (look at what Tippy can do with core only magic, or that one infamous Serpent Book). It's loads of fun, and makes melee interesting again.
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    *sigh* there goes another pile of cash. Good thing I'm rich.

    I'm reworking this ninja for the next go-around. Any other decisive inputs on what not to wear? Or more importantly, what TO add?

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    "Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ninjas are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, kama, kukri, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken and siangham. Ninjas are not proficient with any armor or shield.

    Shuriken Specialization A ninja is an expert on the sharpening, care and use of shuriken. In the hands of a ninja, a shuriken deals 1d4 damage, and has a critical range of 19-20/x2."

    I think you may have figured out a good fix for your version. In my update to the ninja, I dumped the ninja's original proficiencies and let the character pick their own exotic weapons. The 4th Ed trick of upping the damage die for shuriken might work for all those lousy monk weapons though. That's my suggestion anyway. I like your base class, but I don't think the original CA version was really worth keeping. That quality of the CA notwithstanding, your version would probably pass casual DM inspection. Good job!
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Still needs violent reworking, apparently. I'm going to work more on its stealth abilities and maybe add the ninjutsu families.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Alright, some early concepts for approval:

    Hide in Plain Sight at 8th level, works in dim illumination, crowds or poor weather.

    Expert Readiness: Encumbrance limit is an additional 25/50 lbs. from familiarity and constant use of gear.

    Shuriken Storm: Throw two shuriken on each attack at a -2 penalty.

    Sniper: Can Hide after a full action snipe. Moved to 7th level.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Alright, new version is up. Butcher away.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Uncanny Movement seems a bit weak - a lower level warlock can do that all day long. How about no time limit?

    Some method of improving one's weapons would be nice - the current choices are...less than stellar. Either an ability similar to shuriken storm that improves the use of such weapons, or adds extra weapon choices, would be nice.

    I'm not sure how useful expert readiness will be, what with Heward's Handy Haversacks, Bags of Holding, Gloves of Storing, etc. I dunno. It could be handy, I suppose.

    Since ninja's are all about surprise, what about improvements to the Ninja's surprise rounds? Allowing the ninja a move action when it gets a surprise round, for example.

    Would be nice to see some jutsus, too. Just to get some ideas of what they're like, and what they'll add to the class.

    Just ideas. Lookin' better!
    Last edited by streakster; 2008-10-20 at 09:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Lose the shuriken nonsense. Do you see any other base class in existence that specializes in a single weapon? Monk. Almost. And it's not even actually a weapon. Specializing in a single weapon is for PrCs. Since you don't want this to be a PrC, I suggest you lose the shuriken stuff. Just give it a ranged flurry with thrown weapons, and give it a bonus when using small thrown weapons (or exotic, or something along those lines - bonus points if you can find a way to allow it with blowguns and such).

    Other wise, it seems decent enough. I think you're on the right track, but maybe need to rework it again. I'll give a more in depth feedback soon.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by streakster
    Uncanny Movement seems a bit weak - a lower level warlock can do that all day long.
    *shrug* I figured ninjas should get to climb walls and ceilings. If there's a better way to do it I'm all ears.

    Some method of improving one's weapons would be nice - the current choices are...less than stellar. Either an ability similar to shuriken storm that improves the use of such weapons, or adds extra weapon choices, would be nice.

    I'm not sure how useful expert readiness will be, what with Heward's Handy Haversacks, Bags of Holding, Gloves of Storing, etc. I dunno. It could be handy, I suppose.
    Thematic idea based on needing to keep a pack of 50 shuriken with you (25 lbs.)

    Overall I think people are not digging the shuriken in any way, shape or form. And I don't follow how or why a "method of improving one's weapons" should be implemented. Should I just drop all shuriken-related whatnots? (Extra Throw, Shuriken Specialization, Expert Readiness etc.)

    Since ninja's are all about surprise, what about improvements to the Ninja's surprise rounds? Allowing the ninja a move action when it gets a surprise round, for example.
    They used to have one; it was called sudden strike. I dropped it due to popular protest. The current ninja always has the drop on his opponents, since he can hide in plain sight in any circumstance less than standing alone on a flat stone surface in broad daylight.

    And Ziegander: I previously had a ranged flurry. I was told rather clearly not to do that again.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2008-10-20 at 09:42 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    *shrug* I figured ninjas should get to climb walls and ceilings. If there's a better way to do it I'm all ears.
    Take off the time limit. Now it's just as good!


    Thematic idea based on needing to keep a pack of 50 shuriken with you (25 lbs.)

    Overall I think people are not digging the shuriken in any way, shape or form. And I don't follow how or why a "method of improving one's weapons" should be implemented. Should I just drop all shuriken-related whatnots? (Extra Throw, Shuriken Specialization, Expert Readiness etc.)
    I'm sorry. Let me clarify: The current weapon proficiencies are not that great. Having an ability that improves these weapons (such as Shuriken Specialization improves shuriken damage) or adds new profs would be nice to offset this.


    They used to have one; it was called sudden strike. I dropped it due to popular protest. The current ninja always has the drop on his opponents, since he can hide in plain sight in any circumstance less than standing alone on a flat stone surface in broad daylight.
    Fair enough.
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  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    The thing about surprise round abilities is that they're good for the surprise round only, which further contributes to the ninja as a solo who's no good in a party.

    I'll see about the weapons.

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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Here's an idea: Give the Ninja some sort of choice in it's specialization. You can go straight sword (ninja-to) and get interesting things from that, or you can shuriken spec and get completely different stuff, or you can go katar spec and get other things, or short bow, bla, bla, you see?

    Also, there's nothing wrong with ranged flurry, as long as it's handled right. Flurry's mostly just bad because of medium BAB. So instead of doing it exactly like Monk flurry, do a rewrite that makes more sense. An additional attack with thrown weapons at your highest BAB, and no penalty. The max range could be 30ft so it isn't crazy good.

    I also think Sudden Strike was totally fine. Hmph! I like that you were trying to focus it on striking from the shadows. That makes sense to me. But if you want to emulate Sudden Strike while staying different from Sneak Attack, again, write your own new ability that is similar.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Revised Ninja [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    There was... a lot of opposition (read: exponential) to Sudden Strike. Since I'm trying to make the ninja distinct from the rogue, I can't juts hand over Sneak Attack.

    I figure combat specialization can be bought on your own time (read: Feats). The ninja now gets to choose four martial and two exotic weapons for proficiency. Ninjutsu combined with the class features should balance it.

    Opinions? Do I really need the combat boosts? (Weapon Focus et. al)?

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