Build-A-Char!

[Baron Corm]

There is the Bardic Performances ability in the third post, but it's really quite complicated and I should probably add a standardized Inspire Courage A or C ability, with the options of making it a bonus to attack/damage, a skill check, or saves/dodge AC.

Do you think any of the other bard abilities are iconic enough to be worth an ability, or tied into Inspire Courage? Keeping in mind that you can replicate things like suggestion with Domains or Spellcasting.

Another option is to make it really good, and put it in the B slot, since it's somewhat of a character-defining ability, like most B abilities are.

[Roc Ness]

There is the Bardic Performances ability in the third post, but it's really quite complicated and I should probably add a standardized Inspire Courage A or C ability, with the options of making it a bonus to attack/damage, a skill check, or saves/dodge AC.

Oh yes, I see now. Yes, it is rather complicated, a completely new system. The additional options are wonderful, they give a lot more to the bard's key ability than its already got, although I guess they lend a lot to the heightened complexity.

Yes, probably best to also add an Inspire Courage styled ability with some extra versatility built in. You could probably incorporate your original ideas with ability score increases or sonic damage, albeit simplified as options rather than combinations... maybe just give the bards a really simple catch-all bonuses for sticking to one type of song for a while. Alternatively, you could keep the options more lean, but make the songs only require a move action to maintain so that the singer can use their standard actions to something else constructive?

Do you think any of the other bard abilities are iconic enough to be worth an ability, or tied into Inspire Courage? Keeping in mind that you can replicate things like suggestion with Domains or Spellcasting.

Another option is to make it really good, and put it in the B slot, since it's somewhat of a character-defining ability, like most B abilities are.

Not that I can think of off the top of my head. I thought maybe you could add Seeker of the Song style music/refrains but there is a point where maybe you would rather be using spellcasting to replicate those effects, or even better them.

On the flip side, I suppose some form of Double Song could work as a capstone ability of some kind.

[M. Mayonnaise]

This system really interests me. I have a few questions/comments about balance to run by you though.

-- You say that ability score/feat progression is based off of when you acquire/improve certain abilities. If a character takes an extra A, C, or D ability using their archetype points, do they gain ability increases/feats at a greater rate?

-- The soul armor scaling ability and mighty soul armor B ability concern me. I'm worried a character who invests in these may not be getting enough bang for their buck, as it were; their primary class features, aside from C and D abilities and a capstone, revolve around getting a higher armor class and armor enhancements. Even if they get better armor than anyone else, it seems like it would be an underwhelming class feature.

-- I feel as though the invocations B feature could do with more invocations known. Currently they get fewer invocations than the warlock did, whereas a feature like Spellcasting gets 4-5 times as many spells known as the sorcerer, albeit from a more limited list.

-- Also about the invocations, I honestly think the eldritch blast variant of the feature should get a free blast shape or eldritch essence every two levels. I feel like this was a failing of the original warlock; the Dragonfire Adept gets their shapes without having to spend their precious invocations on them, why not the warlock?

-- The Psionics ability looks like it could use some tweaking. It should probably have an AP cost; I would make it the same AP cost as your spellcasting feature. Further, the feature currently gives more PP/day and powers known than the psion did, with no extra limitations on the power list. I would just give it the same PP/day and powers known as the psion. That has its disadvantages though; the psion is Tier 2, while most everything else here is Tier 3.

-- I always liked NeoSeraphi's Alternate Psion idea, in case you wanted to experiment with something different.

-- For the Half-Psionics feature, you say you gain two powers known at every interval. Does that mean two powers known at every even level, or two powers known every level? Also, I would give manifester level = class level. They still have to spend power points to get the potent effects, so it wouldn't be unbalancing. And with half class level, the Half-Psionics feature never gains the ability to use the 6th level Psychic Warrior powers pre-epic.

-- For the maneuvers ability, you specifically say that you can switch maneuvers known for different ones of the same level. Martial adepts are usually able to switch maneuvers known for new maneuvers of any level, to ensure their abilities are always relevant. I would remove the same-level requirement, as it makes this martial feature much weaker than the original martial adepts.

-- The mystical combat focus capstone seems a bit weak, mostly because of the limited uses and low duration. The original combat focus was not a game-changer, but that's understandable since it's only a scaling ability; for a capstone, though, I'd expect something awesome. Fast healing equal to your BAB for one round is basically just healing damage equal to your BAB, isn't it? Etherealness for one round is nice, but the limited uses hurt it. I would make the capstone something like this:
"All of the benefits gained from expending your combat focus last for a number of rounds equal to half of your BAB, rather than one round. In the case of the 'learn enemy HP' ability, you learn the HP of every enemy you threaten at the beginning of your turn every round for the duration. Expending your combat focus a second time while a previous use is still in effect removes the old bonuses and replaces them with the new one.
You also gain the following new abilities:
Expend combat focus to gain regeneration equal to BAB for a number of rounds equal to 1/5 BAB. While this state lasts, no damage is considered lethal damage for you. You can still be knocked unconscious, killed by death effects, or otherwise incapacitated.
Expend combat focus to become ethereal for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 BAB."


Those are my thoughts. This is a great system, thanks for making it!

[Baron Corm]

This system really interests me. I have a few questions/comments about balance to run by you though.

-- You say that ability score/feat progression is based off of when you acquire/improve certain abilities. If a character takes an extra A, C, or D ability using their archetype points, do they gain ability increases/feats at a greater rate?

Added text to make sure no one tries this.

-- The soul armor scaling ability and mighty soul armor B ability concern me. I'm worried a character who invests in these may not be getting enough bang for their buck, as it were; their primary class features, aside from C and D abilities and a capstone, revolve around getting a higher armor class and armor enhancements. Even if they get better armor than anyone else, it seems like it would be an underwhelming class feature.

Yes, most B abilities give you offensive power, while this one is defensive. However, I wouldn't take it away from that one niche build that simply wants a defensive B ability. Such as if you went Domains or Smite for your Scaling and based your offense on that, and just wanted your B ability to make you hard to kill. Involves buying an extra Scaling, so it's not going to be very common, but I'm sure within the entire system there's better builds than that which can use it as well.

Also, if someone is focusing on shield bashing, it becomes an offensive ability. Mighty Soul Armor plus Shield Block is defensive leaning, yet still packs a punch.

-- I feel as though the invocations B feature could do with more invocations known. Currently they get fewer invocations than the warlock did, whereas a feature like Spellcasting gets 4-5 times as many spells known as the sorcerer, albeit from a more limited list.

-- Also about the invocations, I honestly think the eldritch blast variant of the feature should get a free blast shape or eldritch essence every two levels. I feel like this was a failing of the original warlock; the Dragonfire Adept gets their shapes without having to spend their precious invocations on them, why not the warlock?

-- The Psionics ability looks like it could use some tweaking. It should probably have an AP cost; I would make it the same AP cost as your spellcasting feature. Further, the feature currently gives more PP/day and powers known than the psion did, with no extra limitations on the power list. I would just give it the same PP/day and powers known as the psion. That has its disadvantages though; the psion is Tier 2, while most everything else here is Tier 3.

-- I always liked NeoSeraphi's Alternate Psion idea, in case you wanted to experiment with something different.

-- For the Half-Psionics feature, you say you gain two powers known at every interval. Does that mean two powers known at every even level, or two powers known every level? Also, I would give manifester level = class level. They still have to spend power points to get the potent effects, so it wouldn't be unbalancing. And with half class level, the Half-Psionics feature never gains the ability to use the 6th level Psychic Warrior powers pre-epic.

-- For the maneuvers ability, you specifically say that you can switch maneuvers known for different ones of the same level. Martial adepts are usually able to switch maneuvers known for new maneuvers of any level, to ensure their abilities are always relevant. I would remove the same-level requirement, as it makes this martial feature much weaker than the original martial adepts.

Will be considering all of this, thanks for spelling out some of these things. I'm not very familiar with psionics or maneuvers. These are some of the numbers most in need of tweaking.

-- The mystical combat focus capstone seems a bit weak, mostly because of the limited uses and low duration. The original combat focus was not a game-changer, but that's understandable since it's only a scaling ability; for a capstone, though, I'd expect something awesome. Fast healing equal to your BAB for one round is basically just healing damage equal to your BAB, isn't it? Etherealness for one round is nice, but the limited uses hurt it. I would make the capstone something like this:
"All of the benefits gained from expending your combat focus last for a number of rounds equal to half of your BAB, rather than one round. In the case of the 'learn enemy HP' ability, you learn the HP of every enemy you threaten at the beginning of your turn every round for the duration. Expending your combat focus a second time while a previous use is still in effect removes the old bonuses and replaces them with the new one.
You also gain the following new abilities:
Expend combat focus to gain regeneration equal to BAB for a number of rounds equal to 1/5 BAB. While this state lasts, no damage is considered lethal damage for you. You can still be knocked unconscious, killed by death effects, or otherwise incapacitated.
Expend combat focus to become ethereal for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 BAB."

I'd say +20 to attack (or any of those other stats) for easily the entire day's worth of fights is too strong even for a capstone. I might make the fast healing and etherealness last for 1 minute instead of 1 round though.

Those are my thoughts. This is a great system, thanks for making it!

Thank you sir .

[Sodalite]

Hey, I'm from the game thread, and I was wondering, how exactly does the Scaling Ability Pounce work? I get the part about being able to make a full attack at the end of a charge, but what does the part about 'maximum' and 'normal' charge distance? The SRD says that you have move at least 10 feet, but it doesn't make any mention of a maximum distance, aside from your character's ordinary speed.

[Callous]

Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

[Callous]

Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

[Baron Corm]

Hey, I'm from the game thread, and I was wondering, how exactly does the Scaling Ability Pounce work? I get the part about being able to make a full attack at the end of a charge, but what does the part about 'maximum' and 'normal' charge distance? The SRD says that you have move at least 10 feet, but it doesn't make any mention of a maximum distance, aside from your character's ordinary speed.

Sorry, wasn't aware there was another game yet. Good luck with it!

Your normal charge distance maximum is twice your movement speed. So if your speed is 30 feet, it's 60. The Pounce ability lets you go beyond that, so if your pounce distance is 80 feet, you can charge that far away.

For reference: "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action."

Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

I had decided that Maneuvers, Performances, Invocations, and Domains could do Half-Spellcasting's job better, so I took it out. You can pick up any ranger, paladin, or bard spell with Domains if you wish to, but I feel like most people prefer spell-less versions of these classes anyway. The holy paladin flavor can be gotten just by taking Lay on Hands, which was made more versatile. An even more flashy paladin can easily be made with a White Raven initiator. All of the iconic ranger abilities are class features, and you can even go for a shapeshifting ranger if you want.

To answer your question from the race thread, since the ability score/feats thing is only listed here from what I can see, it was a personal decision to make things less complicated, with all of character creation based on the class except wealth, which just goes by the normal table. After noticing that the method granted characters one extra feat, I decided it was a good thing, because it lowers the dominance of humans slightly, and many builds are needing just that one feat. As with all other decisions I've put forth, the DM can very easily say they're just going by the book.

---

In unrelated news, I've finally fixed some of the B ability progressions. Psionics should be more in line with the normal values now, and Invocations grants the same number of invocations as a normal warlock. Thanks again M. Mayonnaise, I included a bunch of your stuff.

[bobthe6th]

I'm not sure were you are going with the minions... they feel very specific. perhaps make them more *gasp* generic? like give a point buy to build your own minions? perhaps use the mutation system? then you have verity in the minions.

I really really like the capstone for minion mancy by the way. I want to make it into a spell...

[Stegyre]

For both Soul Weapon and Soul Armor, it seems misplaced to have them duplicate any existing weapon or armor.

First, my Soul Weapon criticisms (I'll deal with Soul Armor in another post): while this ability helps recreate the signature soulknife ability, it can just as readily be a monk’s unarmed strike, the soulbow’s ranged attack, a variety of incarnum soulmelds. I suggest boiling it down to its essence: the class gives the character some form of innate attack. (Yes, I know you have Martial Arts as a B ability; I just hink it largely overlaps the soul weapon ability and can be replaced while still retaining all of the same flavor.)

“Masterwork weapon,” in this context, really just means “+1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls . . . unless you start enchanting it like a normal magic weapon, because then it must have a +1 enhancement bonus before any other enchantments may be added, and this does not stack with the +1 from masterwork.” In practice this means it has a +1 to hit at low levels.

Duplicating any (proficient) weapon is also, IMHO, less than interesting: there is no reason not to optimize this choice, particularly as it seems fairly likely any class taking this ability will have proficiency with “all martial weapons.” (It’s a combat ability; any combat class will have at least ¾ BAB, and the AP cost for proficiency is therefore 2 or less.) If going one-handed, the weapon will do 1d8 and either 19-20/x2 or 20/x3. If going two-handed, the weapon will do 2d6, 19-20/x2, or 1d12, 20/x3. If going ranged, it will do 1d8, 20/x3. And so forth. It is not clear whether the Soul Weapon has weight, but assuming it does not, even that minor consideration goes out the window.

I suggest giving a number of choices for the Soul Weapon, based on the factors that seem to matter:
Does it need to be “drawn” or readied in some fashion (and similarly therefore subject to disarming or sundering, at least temporarily) or is it always available? (E.g., mindblade vs. monk’s unarmed strike.)
Can it be used during a grapple or not?
Does it have reach?
Can it be thrown (with thrown range increments) or attack with missile-range increments?
Can it be used two-handed (for the extra damage bonus)?

Let the player select among these options. Some suggestions:
Reach or Two-Handed both exclude Grapple and Missile.
Missile excludes Grapple.

So, a soul weapon may be missile & one-handed; reach & two-handed; or grapple & one-handed & thrown.

To incorporate the must-be-readied versus always ready question, characters who choose “must-be-readied” are allowed to change among these three choices each time they “ready” the soul weapon, while those who have it “always ready” are bound by their original choice.

Accordingly, I would rewrite your original description as follows:

You have an innate attack. This may be an unarmed strike, an ancestral weapon that always responds to your call, the physical manifestation of psychic energy or incarnum, or whatever else you might conceive.

You are automatically proficient with your innate attack. It deals 1d6 plus your highest ability bonus, has a critical threat range of 20 and a x2 multiplier. Your innate attack overcomes DR and can affect ethereal or incorporeal creatures as if it was magic and did force damage. With each attack, you may also choose whether it does piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage.

Even if your innate attack takes the form of a physical weapon, only you can wield it.

Your innate attack may have one of the following three suites of characteristics:

1. It doubles your natural reach and receives 1.5 times your highest attribute modifier to damage. Or
2. It may make ranged attacks and be used in melee, including as both weapons of a two-weapon attack. Or
3. It may be thrown, used in a grapple and be used in melee, including as both weapons of a two-weapon attack.

Choose when you take your first level in the class whether your innate attack must be readied or instead is always available. If it is always available, choose one of the three options above, and your innate attack always has those characteristics.

If your innate attack must be readied, it may be readied as a move action (or a swift action with Quick Draw). You can be disarmed, and it can be sundered (hardness 10, hitpoints 10), although in either case you may retrieve/regain/reform it as good as new by readying it again. Each time your innate attack is readied, you may choose which of the three options above it has.

If it is a ranged attack, it has unlimited ammunition and a range increment of 50 ft.

If it can be thrown, it is immediately ready again after the attack is resolved, so you can make iterative thrown attacks with it, and it has a range increment of 10 ft.

You can enchant your innate attack as if it were a normal magic weapon and you had a caster level equal to your class level, by using mystical incense costing the same price as the enchantment would have cost and meditating for 1 hour per 1,000 gp price. Ammunition enhancements cost double their normal price. Once per day, with 1 hour of meditation, you can change the abilities.

[Baron Corm]

The opening line states that you can summon your weapon as a move action. I never wrote this in (and will now), but you can dismiss it as a free action, just as with dropping a weapon normally.

Because the weapon represents you on a spiritual level, its type should be a manifestation of your inner personality. A character with multiple facets to his personality who summons multiple Soul Weapons may select different types for his weapons. If a character's inner self changes drastically at some point, the weapon type of his Soul Weapon may change as well.

This paragraph was supposed to imply that you can't change your Soul Weapon type without dramatic character development, so you're not getting all of those types of weapons on a whim. I don't see anything particularly wrong with allowing them to summon a weapon they're proficient with, rather than making it a standardized ability. A couple hundred gold pieces, at most, would have gotten them the base weapon anyway.

Martial Arts is mostly there to help duplicate a monk character, should one be desired. If I made "innate attack" able to represent martial arts skills or an ancestral energy weapon, I would have to split the ability into either (Ex) or (Su), depending on your choice. That just speaks of two different abilities, to me.

I'll make some adjustments to the ability, but if there's anything left unresolved, please let me know.

Edit: Derp. Actually, the bit about dimissing your weapon as a free action is already in there. Last sentence of the first paragraph. Even I missed it in a quick read-through.

Re-reading Soul Armor, I've taken out the bit about it having no maximum Dexterity bonus. That makes everyone just want to take the armor with the highest possible armor bonus, and removes choice. Not sure if that's one of the things you were going to mention.

Just took out most of the other perks of Soul Armor for good measure, but let it apply to touch attacks. I don't feel like they were overpowered, I just want to encourage the careful selection of the armor you pick.