Help on character for political campaign(heavy rp)

[MustacheFart]

First, I just want to say hey all. I've been dancing around viewing these boards for a while but finally registered.


Anyway, I'm going to be taking part in a campaign that is starting this saturday. Basically, its a pretty heavy rp setting based around political intrigue.

The lowdown is this: There is a coastal kingdom which is run by you guessed it, a king and queen. Inside the domain of the kingdom lies 4 duchies. Each duchy is run by a Duke and Duchess (although one duchy apparently has 2 dukes but haven't found out why yet). Each duchy has its own local court for its corresponding nobles and residents (anyone in the duchy) that it hosts during the summer and fall seasons. The kingdom also has a royal court which conduct business relating directly to the kingdom in which only the Duke's, their friends and families, the king, and his friends and family can attend (basically only the important people). The royal court is in session during the winter and spring seasons respectively. We're starting off during the winter at the royal court.


Ok here is the lowdown of the characters in the campaign (starting level 6):

Race/class

??/Beguiler - a member of a thieves guild pissed off at the king seeking revenge

Elf/paladin - a secret lover of one of the Duchesses.

Half-elf/druid - the illegitimate son of the elf paladin above and the Duchess. He had his ears and other features modified at birth by a cleric of the church so as to fool the Duke into thinking it is his son.

Dwarf/cleric - the cleric of the church who was beseeched by the elf paladin to modify his son for fear of both their deaths

Finally, myself a Human/?? - I am the other son of the same Duke to which the half-elf druid supposedly belongs--the true son of the Duke. Basically I suspect something is different about my brother but have yet to put a finger on it.

Ok, now here is where I need help. All of the players are my friends but one in particular (the elf/paladin) I'd really like to destroy (not kill just foil). He considers himself way intelligent and always plays elves in whatever campaign we are playing. If I can mess up the others in the process that would be sweet too. Now obviously I don't mean party death initially but maybe of the course of time due to the unraveling of my plan.


So, since pretty much every other player in the campaign has some casting ability I thought I'd like to play a character without such abilities. I know that'll probably put me at a significant disadvantage but with it being rp heavy i think it'd be okay.

Character requirements:

-starting at 6th
-13,000gp(apparently starting gold for 6th level)
-1 magic weapon*
-1 magic armor*
-1 wondrous item*
-2 potions
-1 scroll

*These of course are assuming we can afford them with the 13,000gp.

So, I was looking at doing the following:

Either:

Ninja 1/Monk 4/Master of Masks 1
-use Ascthetic Prowler feat to combine ninja & monk levels for unarmed damage and ki pool
-take carmendine monk feat to use int instead of wisdom

Gear:

-Monks belt (since this is 13,000 that'd be all my moolah but I can swing clothes for free and I don't think I'd need much else from the start)

With this build I would continue taking Master of Masks up till lvl 6 to get Hidden Mask (more rp reasons really) then finish up with levels of Monk & ninja (not sure how many each so could use help on that). The basic idea behind the character would be that I could pose as a normal monk of high nobility for pretty much most of the time but have the versatality to sneak around and do my dirty deeds at night/in the background. I liked the idea of masks for this purpose as I could use them to draw off suspicion, not to mention their effect on preventing anyone from truly scrying me would help in case any party members got suspicious.

My other idea was only a slight variation of the one above, in that it is:

2 Ninja/4 Monk

Then I would start taking Master of Masks next level.


Now I am not set on anything thats why I'd like some help on creating a character that I can do the most internal damage with. To give you an idea heres the general concept of my character:

Neglected from a young age, never shown the affection he desired from his mother (she gave it all to her other son), he felt like he was always in the shadows despite his position of nobility (Duke's kid). He never received any attention and in fact went pretty much unnoticed unless he did something bad of course. He instead was blamed for anything wrong happening that even remotely involved him. He then became a monk as a way of appeasing the god of the church, the people of the kingdom, but more importantly his family. He realized after never gaining the respect he knew deserved that politics were not for him.

~little mini old bio below~
In fact, he began to blame the current situation of the kingdom on all the squabbling and scheming of those in charge...Politics had become corrupted and so now has the kingdom. Originally, the kingdom (almost all human) was a prosperous place earning it rule after basically whooping every nearby race until the conceeded. However, the dwarves in recent year have succeeded after apparently being disrespected by the kingdom (you'd think they'd have no self-respect left after being dominated). So, now the kingdom seems to be on a slow downfall. Many await something terrible to happen.

Now back to my character, instead of being a whiny emo beyotch he decided to utilize his powers of subtlety to fulfill his master plan. His master plan is to purify or cleanse the kingdom. Too much tolerance of all these outside species is going on and even inside the kingdom there is too much tolerance. However, from my character's position he cannot do anything at the moment. To do anything overt would surely fail. He must plot and scheme to devise a way to kill off those who are corrupted and take control of the kingdom, returning it to the Glorious dictatorship it was.

My character cannot/does not trust his father, the duke, for he is too blind to notice that surely something is ary within his own family; specifically, revolving around his wife and druidic son.

As for my connections, I have a powerful connection to the 2nd in command for the King. He resents the King and wishes to find a way to overthrow him. I plan to help him to an extent but more so use him (if I take ninja, he'll be secretly ninja).

That's pretty much it. Any suggestions to fulfill that which I listed would be great. The only restrictions are:

Human - locked into that race
Lawful - hell i'm self-justified in my goal to save the kingdom
Nonevil - can't have evil parties though some of the masks from MoM would let me mimic evil
Core books*

*I can use other stuff from other books but have to clear it. So feel free to suggest anything other than whats in dragon magazines or specificall book of nine swords (DM stated hell no to anything in there from get go lol).

BTW sorry for such a long post and if it's too long for many to want to help me, I understand.

-MustacheFart

[elliott20]

you're playing a political intrigue game and you're not going to make a character that has strong diplomacy/bluff skills? dude!!!

of course, you do realize what you'd need to do to totally **** over all three of them right? Expose the son for what he really is. I mean, honestly, it's a simple cascading effect. You show the son not be the king's. Son gets in trouble, maybe. cleric gets in trouble, most likely. and paladin DEFINITELY gets in trouble, though I wonder how said paladin managed to keep her paladinhood when she's committing adultery...

[Ganurath]

You're the true son of the Duke, it's a political campaign, you want to be able to work the courts. Viable options include:

Bard: Diplomancer is a solid possibility here, with the Knowledge (nobility) ranks being very fluffy. Of course, you use Disguise Spell to make everyone think you're just an aristocrat with a love of music. I suggest the following skill set: Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Gather Information, Concentration. Take 5 ranks each in Knowledge (nobility) and (local) for synergy bonuses, then start spending on skill tricks (Complete Scoundrel) and Speak Language.

Cloistered Cleric: Another fine Diplomancer option, especially if you use the Cloistered varient with the Pact and Trickery domains, since that gives you all the synergy skills as class skills. The deity that grants Pact and Trickery is Mouqol, in Complete Divine. Use your spells to work toward a economic power, giving you the resources neccesary to secure your birthright. Be sure to take the Concealed Spellcasting skill trick to hide that Zone of Truth you're putting the half-elf and/or the paladin in.

Wizard: Tutored by the court mage. You'd be amazed what an enchanter/diviner could do to the body politic.

[elliott20]

in fact, in D&D, magic is so damn powerful that it's hard to imagine any political body withOUT it.

[MustacheFart]

you're playing a political intrigue game and you're not going to make a character that has strong diplomacy/bluff skills? dude!!!

No, I definately planned to put max ranks in atleast bluff and probably deplomacy too. I figured with being part ninja and a high int (really helping with carmendine monk) I'd have more than enough skill points.

though I wonder how said paladin managed to keep her paladinhood when she's committing adultery...

No the Duchess is just a Duchess, sorry if I wasn't clear. Basically, the Duchess (npc) my character's mom slept around with a paladin (the player character I want to get).


I figure I should expose them but the problem lies in the fact that my character doesn't know about the son of impure blood/cheating Duchess yet. I suspect alot but I do not know yet. So, without metagaming I can't take that course of action.

However, I figured being the only one without casting abilities I would be underestimated and could use that to my benefit. Aside from the player characters knowing Magic, magic isn't going to be super common in the campaign world. Most in the world will see all casters as the same (DM said they'd be referred to as Magi) so I figured I could create a level of mistrust in the kingdom towards casters.

Bascally, I want to physically sneak around behind the scenes and find out all the juicy information, you know be the guy who really knows everything. However, I wanted to do it with as little magic as possible. Also if I can sneak around without using any magic and totally **** over the paladin and his fake son without them realizing it until it's too late that'd be freaking sweet.

While using stuff like zone of truth and other spells would be freaking hilarious; especially, if I casted it on him during the royal court and outed him, I don't think my DM would be cool with that. Plus a few members of the campaign wouldn't be very happy. Also that's a pretty overt action, which with a group of casters, I think would lead back to me sooner or later.

So, is it possible to do what I wanted more phsyically and with subterfuge? I figured ninja would really let me sneak around without being cought. Then MoM would let me create a lot of diversions and distractions preventing them from closing in on me.

Perhaps, I should scrap the MoM and focus more on ninja then maybe go Shadowdancer? I suspect that I'll have to "assassinate" some people somewhere down the line in the campaign (like you know, I need to get some information but there's someone guarding it so, I pop out and drop him quickly). I figured sneak attack + stealth + speed = best way to dispatch people the quickiest without much attention.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
As for getting the caster's hated, I was thinking I would get a subtantial amount of "poison" and poison the main river for the dwarves, killing off most of there kind while framing the casters for the hostile action. This would create more turmoil in the kingdom and probably create an actual war between the kingdom (mostly humans) and the dwarves. Then people in the kingdom would really hate all who practiced arcane arts for being the reason their time of relative peace ended.

[BRC]

Well, there are two types of sneaky, Ninja Sneaky and Face Sneaky.

Ninja Sneaky gets passed a locked door by knocking out the guard and picking the lock.
Face Sneaky gets passed the door by getting the guard to open the door for him. Considering your character, I would go for Face Sneaky. Neglected by your mother, your character was taken care of by the household servants whom he soon learned to manipulate for his amusement. By spreading some lies here, a little suggestion there, he could have them play out elaborate dramas of his devising without even knowing it. At the same time, he became a master of observation, missing nothing and storing everything away for later use.

He's since become a sort of golden-tounged serpent, recognizing that he was gifted in the art of manipulation he decided to make that his primary method of achieving goals, and set out to prepare himself for any goals may want to achieve later. As soon as he was able, he traveled the kingdom, making friends and gathering blackmail. If a situation arises that he can't handle, he probably knows somebody who can handle it, and how to get them to handle it for him, preferably without knowing it.

He's heard stories from friends in the Ducal guard about how close his mother was to a certain elf paladin. He's noticed that his brother doesn't seem to need much sleep, and is able to safely navigate with a candle where others need a torch. He's noticed how the cleric, fairly lawful, is abit nervous around the paladin and his brother. He's noticed all this, and has filed it away in case it becomes useful later.

Now, for this character I would go for a Cha based rogue or bard, MoM is a nice class, it gives you some serious versatility. If your DM will let you, I say maybe take Leadership, with your lowers representing a network of friends and informants all over the kingdom, and your Cohort representing a bodyguard you selected from your Fathers forces because he was too stupid to question orders and very loyal. His purpose is to meatsheild, act as intimidating muscle when appropriate, and perhaps flank with you.

[elliott20]

I like BRC's suggestion and would reinforce that with you spending more time on investigation. You would be careful about sewing discontent with the magi through sabatoging your own people. for one thing, those with magic can find these things out, for another, the rest of the people could also be moving against you while you move against them. Any plot on your own part, if unravelled, could come back to you hard.

I still think the best way is to expose the paladin for his betrayal.

you would have to go about it in the following way though:

1. you need to learn the truth first to have an in-game justification for this. use your face-sneakiness to hear all the gossip from the servants, get into places you're not supposed to get into, and generally just find people who is willing to give you the skinny. Sure, you can't prove any of it. But all you need is a reason to further investigate.

2. you can expose the paladin for the treacherous little punk he is in several ways:

- have a witness hear of his or the dutchess' confession. maybe some machination to get the paladin talking about his sins and what he must confess to.
- once you have an idea about your mother's betrayal, confront her in private, and threaten her to go public UNLESS she coroborates a story that basically accuses the paladin of seducing her through magic/charm/what have you. If she confesses to the adultery, but only as a victim, you promise to not turn her in.
- paternity test magic. most boring way to go about it.

[MustacheFart]

BRC: That sounds awesome. That's basically the jist of where I was trying to go with my character. I'm not sure about the leadership aspect but to be honest since its heavy rp I wouldn't even really need he feat. My DM already told me I can create connections and would have one above all that would share my plans or atleast protect me.

I'm not sure about bard but rogue could work. Are you saying like just pure rogue or would mixing monk in be good? I was thinking it'd be better if I could do my business unarmored and unarmed. Purely for roleplaying reasons as being nobility I'm probably just wearing fancy robes and don't appear to be any real threat. Also I don't want to be called out as a rogue or even a fighter, which is what wearing light armor and donning daggers (or whatever weapon) would probably get me, I think. I mean not to be a total star wars nerd but if palpatine walked around with his saber out the whole time...ya things woulda been different. I know there is ways to hide and conceal weapons but I'd rather not even have them there to worry about.

So, is there a way to make this high charisma rogue who relies on his own abilities without need for armor or weapons.

[BRC]

BRC: That sounds awesome. That's basically the jist of where I was trying to go with my character. I'm not sure about the leadership aspect but to be honest since its heavy rp I wouldn't even really need he feat. My DM already told me I can create connections and would have one above all that would share my plans or atleast protect me.

I'm not sure about bard but rogue could work. Are you saying like just pure rogue or would mixing monk in be good? I was thinking it'd be better if I could do my business unarmored and unarmed. Purely for roleplaying reasons as being nobility I'm probably just wearing fancy robes and don't appear to be any real threat. Also I don't want to be called out as a rogue or even a fighter, which is what wearing light armor and donning daggers (or whatever weapon) would probably get me, I think. I mean not to be a total star wars nerd but if palpatine walked around with his saber out the whole time...ya things woulda been different. I know there is ways to hide and conceal weapons but I'd rather not even have them there to worry about.

So, is there a way to make this high charisma rogue who relies on his own abilities without need for armor or weapons.

Hmm, I suppose you could go for some monk levels, though thinking about it, you wouldn't need that many.

Most of your damage would come from Sneak Attacks anyway, and there are plenty of ways to get that. One level of monk gives you better unarmed damage and Improved Unarmed strike for free, as well as the ability to add your Cha (very high) to AC. If caught in a combat situation, you go defensive, keeping your AC high until you get into a situation where you can sneak attack. I highly recommend you go for Improved Feint, you'll have a high int for your skills, so combat expertise will be good already, and your hefty bluff check will help you feint, allowing you to hit with those unarmed sneak attacks. A first level monk's unarmed strike deals more than a dagger, and that level will boost all your saves. You can buy magic gauntlets (Brass knuckles you can slip into your pocket, or "Magic Gloves") To provide enhancement bonuses and other nifty things. The only problem is that you'll be a bit short in the attack bonus department, but in this type of campaign you probably won't be fighting many people in heavy armor, and if their AC is coming from dex, you've already got that covered with your sneak attackness.

So yeah, I'd go for a monk level.


Edit: It appears Monk's add their Wis to AC, not their Cha. Hrm, you'll need decent Wis for sense motive checks anyway, but thats more MAD than I like the sound of...

Edit II: Does this setting have the Printing Press? If so, is there a widespread print media? If yes, befriend people in it. If not, encourage it's growth. Having the newspapers owe you a favor makes character assassination and trial by media (Two of your favorite weapons) much easier.

[MustacheFart]

BRC: Well I did get the okay on carmendine (sp?) monk feat which lets me add my int for all monk abilities (including to ac) so, if i did that I'd have to have a high int which would also benefit for skill points/skills.

I mean if I had a more min/maxer lenient DM I'd say take 1 level monk and 1 level of sorcerer in addition to rogue. Then take Ascthetic Mage feat to let me add charisma to AC. However, I don't even have to ask to know he wouldn't be cool with 3 base classes lol.

So, my needed high stats would be dex (ac and attack if I go finesse), cha (skills: diplomacy, bluff, etc) and INT. That seems still a little spread out. If I could get down to 2 primary stats would probably be better, I don't know.

We are rolling for stats: 4d6 drop the lowest, 6 times. So, its not going to be a huge high stat game but rolling 3 18s with my luck would be difficult.


elliot20: What if I confront, my mother and she is too "in love" with the paladin to let him take the fall? Out them both?


EDIT: BRC: I am not sure if there is a printing press but I was already thinking along those lines. I figure at the least there's probably a Town Crier who I might be able to use.

[BRC]

BRC: Well I did get the okay on carmendine (sp?) monk feat which lets me add my int for all monk abilities (including to ac) so, if i did that I'd have to have a high int which would also benefit for skill points/skills.

I mean if I had a more min/maxer lenient DM I'd say take 1 level monk and 1 level of sorcerer in addition to rogue. Then take Ascthetic Mage feat to let me add charisma to AC. However, I don't even have to ask to know he wouldn't be cool with 3 base classes lol.

So, my needed high stats would be dex (ac and attack if I go finesse), cha (skills: diplomacy, bluff, etc) and INT. That seems still a little spread out. If I could get down to 2 primary stats would probably be better, I don't know.

We are rolling for stats: 4d6 drop the lowest, 6 times. So, its not going to be a huge high stat game but rolling 3 18s with my luck would be difficult.


elliot20: What if I confront, my mother and she is too "in love" with the paladin to let him take the fall? Out them both?

Ooh, thats nifty. Okay go with that

For the mother question, it depends, how ruthless are you.

Equipment Advice, an Amulet of Mighty Fists is essentially a weapon for your character, and if you make it in in the shape of your house seal, it won't attract attention unless somebody uses Detect Magic. Same goes for some Bracers of Armor which are similarly low-profile.

Prioritize Int and Cha. Your character isn't going to be a powerhouse, so don't worry about making him one. You only need to survive in combat long enough to get behind a meatsheild. For extra irony, make it that paladin you hate so much, or get your druidic brother to summon somthing or wildshape and take the blow himself. And don't underestimate defensive fighting, that +4 to AC is hefty.
mmm...I love edits: Explain that monk level by saying that, during your travels, you spent some time at a monastery, perhaps recovering from an illness, and learned the basics of their art.

[MustacheFart]

Well, I'm thinking if I got enough skill points I should take some UMD. That way if I get it high enough and I'm about to go confront my mother I can go pick up a scroll of charm person or hell a dominate person scroll. So, if she does decide to be all noble or seem like she's going that route...boom I hit her with it so she helps out the paladin. Then if she's dominated, on his execution date (he'd definately get sentenced to death for sleeping with the Duchess, though their'd prolly be a rescue attempt) release her from it so she can try to "save" him and get herself killed lol.

I like the idea of the paladin and the druid son essentially outing themselves without knowing I led them to it. Perhaps, with my connections, once I find out about the affair I'll send assassins to kill the Duchess but purposely let the paladin foil them. Nothing like putting someone's loved one in danger to get em' all heated.


Now, a specific question. We get to start with 13,000 gp. Should I just blow it all on a monk's belt or hold off? What'd be gear would it be wise to start with?


EDIT: well, I already talked with DM and whether I go ninja or rogue he wants me to keep that part a secret. I have a connection who is a fellow rogue/ninja (my master really) whom more importantly is the King's second in command. So, I'll use the one monk as my major everyday persona. Who'd mess with a holy man?

[elliott20]

just another idea, you could always be a bard whose performance is not in singing or dancing but in... you guessed it, public speaking. Your speciality? getting people all worked up with a rousing speech! Just don't fail epically the way Elan did when he was pumping up the Azurites.

The way to get the paladin or the druidic son to out themselves? Let him know that somebody knows about the paladin and the dutchess. He doesn't need to know who, but he just needs to know that somebody out there knows and will probably use this knowledge to blackmail the queen into doing something that is against her character. now sit back and watch as the paladin tries to do the right thing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do you intentionally want to avoid spellcasting, or do you expect that the type of character you want to play wouldn't be able to fit in spellcasting too?

You could make a Cloistered Cleric with the Trickery domain, which should get all the appropriate class skills you'd want with plenty of skill points, and you could always get a Monk's Belt and bluff the other players about being a Ninja with a variant that trades out Sudden Strike. Secretly worship some tricky, behind-the-scenes-type deity for a Palpatinesque character. Maybe get the Spell domain too to use Anyspell to prepare Swift Invisibility or anything else you may want, considering how many magic-focused deities offer the Trickery domain. You could instead get Divine Metamagic: Quicken and Extra Turning, get at least Cha 16 and you can Quicken two spells/day. Take the feat Mercantile Background (PGtF) and get your belt at 75% cost, even say all your gear was purchased at least a month apart and get everything at that discount.

Use tricks like throwing down a flashy smoke thing when you go invisible and run off, or cast Blindness on someone as you throw some sort of mundane, mystical-seeming powder or spit some green-colored liquid in their face, making sure to cast the spell in some obscure language so they won't be able to Spellcraft it, ancient dead languages are good for that. Use Slight of Hand and big sleeves to conceal your somatic components, have a holy symbol tied to your forearm where nobody will notice it for casting. Keep the other players guessing what class(es) your character actually has, and make sure that every time your character does something, it looks like he's achieving it by some other means than what he's actually doing.

[Ricky S]

You should totally go rogue 5 assassin 1 to get some cool skills. And you could also specialize in bluff diplomacy and forgery for some epic effects against the court. Generally its also not wise to spend all your money on a single magic item. It would be better to spend it on a few different things. Although it may seem like a good idea it makes certain things a bit harder and means you have no spare cash. Apart from those comments just build a character that you really like and dont try to make it uber generally the weaker characters tend to be more fun to play.

[MustacheFart]

Ricky S: I considered assassin but it's not possible since the PrC requires evil alignment and I can't be an evil character.


Thanks for all the comments guys. I think one thing is for sure though. I could probably out the paladin relatively easy and get his character executed but that's no fun. Instead I think I'll use what I know as blackmail for two reasons: 1) To use the paladin to further my goals; and 2) To see how far I can push a character that's as holy as a paladin.

Blackmailing the Duchess would be fun but I think blackmailing the paladin would be even more fun. I mean it shouldn't be too difficult because I don't expect him to openly out himself just to save the Duchess as if he did, he'd be condemning his only son too. I also don't think I'd need to worry about the consequences even if the paladin found out it was I blackmailing him. I mean, what... is he going to kill me just to cover up his sin? That'd lose you some paladinhood right there in which case even if he did kill me, I already won.

I figured I'd use the MoM PrC to keep players guessing at what I truly am.

So, right now I am looking at:

Human 6th level
4 levels Rogue/1 level Monk/1 level MoM

Feats:
Combat Expertise(Human bonus feat)
Improved Feint(shakey flaw)
??(possibly another flaw that'd work well)
Carmendine Monk(1st level)
Asthetic Rogue(3rd level)
??(6th level)
Stunning Fist(Monk Bonus Feat)
Improved Unarmed Strike(Monk 1st level)

I'm not too sure what should be my other feat/s. Also which skill tricks would be best? I'm definately thinking the one that keeps people familiar to someone from getting a bonus on seeing through disguise as well as the skill trick which lets me attempt a second impression should my disguise fail. I forget their names as I don't have my book with me.

Also there is already a cleric in the party and I've pretty much been pidgeon-holed into playing a non-magical character.

Thanks for all the help and keep em coming.

EDIT: Oh I have a question, is there a way to hide the magical auras of some magic items? I mean like I know magic items don't function in an anti-magic field but is there a way to replicate that without a spell? Like, I would love to have my magical items not show auras until I am ready to use them.

[BRC]

EDIT: Oh I have a question, is there a way to hide the magical auras of some magic items? I mean like I know magic items don't function in an anti-magic field but is there a way to replicate that without a spell? Like, I would love to have my magical items not show auras until I am ready to use them.

only way I could think would be to put them in lead-lined containers, then take them out and put them on when ready.

[MustacheFart]

I'm thinking I'll take Master Manipulator as a 6th feat and possible dodge as the other blank feat. Master Manipulator seems like it would come in handy especially to find out the paladin's secret.

Are there any good skilltricks/traits or anything I should get to help with my vocal skills (bluff, deplomacy, sense motive, etc)?

[Vortling]

I would like to suggest something that is a radical departure from the classes so far but I believe it fits well with what you're trying to accomplish.

Play a Factotum.

Obviously this is moot if you don't have access to Dungeonscape, but the factotum is a fairly non-magical character that can do pretty much everything you want. Additionally the factotum is Int based.

Here's what you'd be looking at for a 6th level factotum:
All skills as class skills
6 skills per level from the class
Slightly tougher than a rogue
Enough other tricks to keep the other players guessing about your class.

For feats, take Font of Inspiration in any and slots that you can manage. If you want to fight "unarmed", I'd ask your DM for a pair of glamered gauntlets.

Just my two cents

[MustacheFart]

Okay so I got my stats rolled and I think I rolled pretty well. Also below are my skill points, although I'm not sure I have the placed the most beneficially.

Anyway here they are:

Stats
--------

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 11
INT: 18
WIS: 15
CHA: 17 (+1 from lvl 4) = 18


18 - 4
16 - 3
15 - 2
14 - 2
11 - 0
17 - 3

I'm not sure if I placed them appropriately. I know I need the 2 18s (one 17 bumped up) in cha and int but not sure of the others.

Skill points: (8 + 4 + 1) x 4 = 52 (1st level rogue)
52 + (13 x 3) = 91 ( 4th level rogue)
91 + (4 + 4 + 1) = 100 (1 level monk)
100 + (4 + 4 + 1) = 109 (1 level MoM)
109/9 = 12 skills max rank (108 skill points)

-Disguise: 9
-Bluff: 9
-Perform (Act): 8
-Diplomacy: 9
-Sense Motive: 9
-Knowledge (Local): 5
-Knowledge (nobility/cross classed): 4.5
-Tumble: 9
-Open Lock: 9
-Use Magic Device: 9
-Gather Information: 9
-Forgery: 9
--------
Total: 103 skill points

So, I have 5 more skill points. I don't know if I should use them for comprehend languages (becomes class skill with MoM so not sure if that means no longer takes 2 points to get 1 new language), for jump to get a tumble synergy, for skill tricks, or for another skill entirely. Any help appreciated lol.

As for languages I was thinking: common, dwarf, elf, halfling, and gnome. Also a really barely ever used language would be good for my own communication that I don't want being easily understood.

BTW I almost always play beatsticks that's why most of this is pretty new. After my barb/fighter/druid/bear warrior/warshaper/frenzied berzerker they don't want me playing a demolisher for a while.

EDIT: Ahh didn't see the post above when I was typing this. Unfortunately, I do not have dungeonscap so, factotum is probably out unless you know where I can get the book online before tomorrow. For the most part though, I think the DM wants a pretty straight forward campaign where the majority is done through rping so, classes like chameleon (which I aready asked about lol) and factotum(if i can get the book I'll ask) which are disigned purely to fool people are out.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

EDIT: Oh I have a question, is there a way to hide the magical auras of some magic items? I mean like I know magic items don't function in an anti-magic field but is there a way to replicate that without a spell? Like, I would love to have my magical items not show auras until I am ready to use them.

(Nystul's) Magic Aura does exactly that, and lasts forfreakinever.

[Vortling]

Stats
--------

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 11
INT: 18
WIS: 15
CHA: 17 (+1 from lvl 4) = 18

I'd swap your STR and CON and consider weapon finesse, which works for your hands.

As for languages I was thinking: common, dwarf, elf, halfling, and gnome. Also a really barely ever used language would be good for my own communication that I don't want being easily understood.

I'd ever so politely ask your DM pick you a language that isn't on any of the other character's spoken language list. Draconic might be nice.

EDIT: Ahh didn't see the post above when I was typing this. Unfortunately, I do not have dungeonscap so, factotum is probably out unless you know where I can get the book online before tomorrow. For the most part though, I think the DM wants a pretty straight forward campaign where the majority is done through rping so, classes like chameleon (which I aready asked about lol) and factotum(if i can get the book I'll ask) which are disigned purely to fool people are out.

The factotum isn't designed purely to fool people. It's designed to be an excellent jack-of-all-trades class with a large focus on skills. You can get the gist of the class here Factotum Handbook from WotC forums. If you like, consider buying Dungeonscape. Rich Burlew is one of the main authors.

[MustacheFart]

Is there a feat or way to add knowledge(nobility) as a class skill?

Also if take the versatile unarmed strike feat http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...060501a&page=4

does that mean if i'm wearing gauntlets I can deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing? Or, is that only bare handed. If it works with gauntlets I could get vorpal gauntlets (just being silly thinking of punching someone's head off) right?

Also how well did I distribute my skill points? Any rearrangement or changes you'd make?

EDIT: Also if I am changing how I appear (using disguise skill) I have to actually have another outfit for who I want to portray right? Is there any magic outfit that I can wear than shift to look like whatever outfit I want?

[Vortling]

Is there a feat or way to add knowledge(nobility) as a class skill?

Also if take the versatile unarmed strike feat http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...060501a&page=4

does that mean if i'm wearing gauntlets I can deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing? Or, is that only bare handed. If it works with gauntlets I could get vorpal gauntlets (just being silly thinking of punching someone's head off) right?

Also how well did I distribute my skill points? Any rearrangement or changes you'd make?

EDIT: Also if I am changing how I appear (using disguise skill) I have to actually have another outfit for who I want to portray right? Is there any magic outfit that I can wear than shift to look like whatever outfit I want?

There's a feat that let's you gain knowledge skills but I don't remember off the top of my head.

I believe versatile unarmed strike only works with your fists.

Your skills look good, though I'd consider dropping forgery for spot or possibly listen. Too many things like disguise and sleight of hand are opposed by spot whereas forgery is rather hit or miss. You may want to talk with your DM about your skill selection as the DM can determine which skills are useful in their campaign and which will fall by the wayside.

And to your last question: Hat of Disguise. Don't play in an intrigue game without one. You might even be able to cut some or all of your disguise ranks if you have one.

[MustacheFart]

Ya, you're right about the skills. One thing I don't understand though is for disguise it says you have to successfully make a disguise check to disguise yourself as another specific individual. So, if I am trying to make myself look like the elf paladin what's the DC I got to beat to look like him?

[mabriss lethe]

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but really, the bard is the win button in the political arena. They make some of the nastiest agents of intrigue you'll ever run across. Who needs to ever draw a sword when you can whip up a howling mob to do your dirty work? With the right selection of skills and spells you can make anyone do anything. You don't need to deal damage with a weapon. People are your weapons.

If you don't like the flavor of the bard, choose Oratory as his bardic performance and flavor him as a public speaker, a noble with a good grounding in all the courtly arts. Swordplay, music,politics poetry, spellcraft.

[MustacheFart]

I just want to say thanks guys for all the help!

Ya, if I wasn't pretty much stuck playing a melee noncasting class I'd go bard. As I definately like the idea of a musician sitting back there just playing away ****ing everyone over without em' realizing. However, I also picked rogue because a buddy in the campaign (the druid) is playing a rogue in another campaign (albeit primarily a dungeon crawling campaign) with me and he thinks they're useless. In reality he just sucks really bad....never feints and always just complains that he can't get sneak attack or never has anything to do. So, I'd like to show him the effect a rogue can have on the gameworld, but I might have picked the wrong setting lol.


Btw, I found the feat that lets me get all knowledge skills. It's called Education from Ebberon Campaign Setting book. It also gives +1 to 2 knowledges so that's nice.

If I get myself killed I'll be coming back as a bard from the same theatre group that my Master of Masks currently belongs to, hell-bent on revenge.


As for gear, I'm looking at getting a hat of disguise definately. However, for the rest of my gear should I get: magic enhanced gauntlets (can afford +1 glamored gauntlets), a necklace of natural armor, or bracers of armor +3?




-----------------------------------------------

Actually, what the hell, I'm feeling kinda motivated. I already had the rogue/monk/MoM built pretty much but I am really starting to like the idea of bard (mainly cuz I've never played one). So, I think I'll roll one up and then tomorrow ask the DM if I can play him instead of the rogue (or which he likes better).

Therefore, how would/should I build this bard to be the great political manipulator you guys have made them out to be? Straight 6 levels of bard? If you can point me to a build or come up with one for me that'd be sweet.


-MustacheFart

[Eldaran]

Get a wand, or if you don't want to UMD, a potion, of Glibness, the 3rd level bard spell. Then convince the king, the local church, or anyone else that you're the avatar of their god and they have to give you all their money and items and power. That should work even if they roll a 20 and you roll a 1. Yay glibness!

[Danin]

Unfortunately I found this thread a little bit later than I would have liked. Please, allow me to throw in my two cents.

Considering that a monk is a fairly specific path and one level dips are rather hard to justify, I would suggest that you take the opportunity to use your environment to justify your character. You are a noble who would be well schooled, be practiced in social situations, has a bit of a tragic past (Mother neglecting him a touch) and has a secret he wants to find out. Naturally, the feat Education, diplomacy, sense motive, bluff and a high charisma along side a more neutral / sardonic outlook and some element of stealth would all lend well into this character. However, note, that with a high int and charisma, this guy would likely be the social butterfly, the cool kid on the block who jumps between circles effortlessly. This guy has style.

Another oft overlooked element to being a noble is arms training. Many nobles were trained in the use of the bow as a status symbol and regular competitions were held. More specifically though, they were often trained in the use of light blades such as rapiers. What class ties in elements of charisma, intelligence and light arms that has all the requisite social skills? Why swashbucklers of course! Naturally though, in order to not be considered a threat, you couldn't be the *best* fighter around, so run with it. After all, Rogue levels would lower your BAB slightly and sneak attack would be an option... less acceptable, in a noble court.

In your more subtle roles such as breaking into some place or sneaking into some place you shouldn't be, a dagger is easy enough to conceal and with UMD as a class skill there are plenty of items or scrolls that could conceal a rapier.

My preference would be to a build along the lines of:

Rogue 3 / Swashbuckler 3

Str - 11
Dex - 16
Con - 14
Int - 18
Wis - 15
Char - 17 + 1

Feats:
Human - Education
1 - Combat Expertise
3 - Daring Outlaw
6 - Master Manipulator

Skills:
Climb - 3
Jump 3
Balance - 3
Hide - 6
Move Silently - 6
Open Lock - 6
Search - 6
Use Magic Device - 6
Disable Device - 6
Sleight of Hand - 6
Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) - 9
Bluff - 9
Diplomacy - 9
Sense Motive - 9
Tumble - 9

(Sorry for the strange skill set, I hate cross-classed skills)

This would leave you with a very capable combatant able to conceal a dagger on his person rather easily that can manipulate with the best of them. I strongly endorse manipulating the paladin, but you should have a very firm (though lofty) goal in mind already. Essentially, be the BBEG that no one realized is the BBEG until its too late. I am confident the GM has some sort of conflict within the court and a number of plot elements to drive a very compelling story forward (I wish I had a campaign like this...) but try and use every opportunity to further your own ends. I'm thinking a very firm Neutral / Power hungry outlook.

Any way, thats my two copper.

[MustacheFart]

Thanks, Danin that's actually an interesting idea. Kind of a Commodous(sp?) from Gladiator type of character (very plotting although some level of arms training).

Unfortunately, it did come to late. Also I'm already bummed with the campaign after just the first session. I basically created my character to be the BBEG like you said who's lofty goal was to take out the king and take the kingdom for himself so that he could clense/purify the kingdom (think a dnd-hitler, sorry if that's bad reference but best I could think of. Basically a guy who wants to stop all the inter-race breeding and make humans the end-all-be-all race). The DM knew this, said he had no problem with this, and finally blew this all up!

Basically, what happened was, I caught the beguiler putting a note into the pocket of a White Hand member. The white hand is a group who lost out to my father (the Duke) for control of a Duchy at last years court. A few members of the white hand confronted my brother (the druid) at the tavern in the main kingdom's city (we were there for the royal court precession coming up) while I was off at another table consorting with the beguiler who was claiming to be a textile salesman. All of this happened after I bought the whole bar drinks as a show of good spirits and to start the night off well. "Liking" fancy clothing I set up a contact with the beguiler telling him I'd see him at the market in the morning. That's when I overheard the white hand.

Basically, the white hand were threatening my brother's character saying how our father the duke wouldn't be duke for long....all that jazz. I come over and join them just as my brother says to them that maybe they have similar goals (my brother hates the duke...because he's not his real father; although, my character doesn't know why he hates him). I hush up my brother and do a diplomacy to get it back on track. That's when the noew puzzled white hand member with his guards gets up to leave. I then see the beguiler put a note in his pocket. I'm the only one to see this so I keep it a secret.

I offer to show the white hand out. As we leave the tavern and are in the streets I politely confront the white hand member. I tell him that a sneaky individual placed a note in his pocket. He removes it and reads it aloud. Basically, it was the beguiler telling the white not to be so foolish as to make such open claims against the duke to their sons. It had clear emphasis on the "open" part. So, one thing was for sure, the beguiler wasn't just a textile salesman. My brother thinking I was going to "whoop up" on the white hand to teach them a lesson kept the door blocked so nobody could come out and interrupt. I then went back inside saying I gave them a talking to.

At that point, the paladin and the cleric arrived and all hell started to break loose. Basically, the beguiler who was generally pissed a anyone relating to the Duke tried to frame my brother into picking a fight with rather large gentlemen at the tavern. Specifically, the beguiler wrote a note insulting the mother of one of the men in my brother's name and gave it to a waitress to deliver to them. He forgot one key thing--to tip the waitress. She ratted him out lol. I calmed the situation by buying everyone another drink, not to mention our party was substantial in size against the two large men so they backed down. I then went to pay the patron of the tavern and gave him a note to give to the beguiler stating that I'd like to meet him. I was trying to get the beguiler tied in to the party at the dm's request more than anything; although, the player playing the beguiler is basically an unruley dude who plays characters that just disrupt the campaign more than anything and don't add much in terms of value to it.

We then left the tavern to head to the main palace i guess for dinner with all the nobles. On the way there my brother, the cleric, and the paladin confronted me about the white hand and the textile salesmen. Having been kind of perturbed at the textile salesman and not knowing who he was I decided to test him a little (which given that I already gave him a note asking to meet wasn't very wise...I know that now lol); but my main goal was to investigate the relationship the paladin has with my mother (who I don't even like). So, I told them that I saw the textile salesman place a note in the white hand's coat and that went to confront the white hand about it. They of course asked what the note said assuming I found out. I then figured a bluff was in order...so I did. I informed them that the note stated the textile salesman wanted to meet them as he had plans to assassinate the Duchess (my mother). I figured at the very least this would keep the paladin busy and possibly draw out his secret as well as bring out the true identity of the textile salesman.

They asked why I didn't stop the textile salesman and that was as simple as saying, "we receive threats all the time and beside he might have accomplices; therefore, stopping him now before we fulling know what he's up to might not be wise." We then headed to dinner.

To make an already long story short, the beguiler snuck into the Duke's room and placed a note to frame the duke for having involvement with the dwarves who have seceded and been attacking the kingdom. We all went to dinner. My brother (the druid) who was gravely worried for his mother slipped up and released some info to the paladin (I was looking something up at the time so my character heard it but I didn't), which with a successful sense motive I gathered to indicate, beyond a doubt, that there is some relationship between the duchess and the paladin beyond that of him being her right hand protector. They managed to bluff me (barely) when I asked of his exact relationship with my mother. Anyway, just before we arrived to the dinner the paladin was pulled away by another duchess. The rest of us headed inside to the dinner. The beguiler arrived at a table shortly after which was very weird. The duchess failed to arrive.

The paladin on his own found the duchess and she was in the process of being turned to stone, though not due to the beguiler but in that a cursed item she possessed was stolen...from the room the beguiler placed his "evidence" in. In fact the beguiler saw the individual take the item but kept it to himself. Anyway, after the paladin hadn't returned I got up to go find him as I was really hoping to catch him in the act. My brother came along and he told the cleric to stay and watch the "textile salesman".

We couldn't find them so we flagged some guards. We mentioned they were missing and my brother informed them about the textile salesman's plans to kill the duchess. Basically, a big uproar was caused.

We all ended up in the King's private chambers and this is where the real bull**** in my opinion comes in. The king calls for his right hand wizard (who is also the top judge in the kingdom) and asks him to get to the bottom of this. The wizard then, you guessed it, uses zone of truth. Of ****ing course he had no said wizard written down and my will save of 24 fails but a 29 (my druid brother) makes it. Basically, they argued for a while that he would be high level and probably have heighten spell and all this jazz. Most of the influence came from the beguiler who was pissed that I framed him for an attack on the duchess (hmm meta-game much? He didn't know, in character, I bluffed that his note said he was going to attack the duchess, only out of character). I tried to make the point that if he's so high a 29 would probably fail as well but I lost that arguement...

So, the beguiler, the paladin, and myself end up under the zone of truth. We found out: the beguiler didn't have anything to do with the duchess; what happened when the paladin went to find the duchess; and you guessed it the big secret! It came out because the wizard asked me if I lied about the beguiler (yay blackballs). Knowing zone of truth, there wasn't much I could do to skate around a yes or no question. I stated I didn't understand the question rofl. Then either the king or the wizard instructed one of the two of the king's guards (one with a blade cloaked in lightning and another with a blade cloaked in black energy) to chop my head off. So, figuring I was pretty much boned (also already not liking the outcome I figured, **** let me die I'll come back as a bard or something), I stated, "With my last words.." and I was going to out the paladin but I was interrupted with an intimidating DM shout of "just answer the question" rofl. So, I did and said I lied.

I then outed the the paladin and my brother. Of course all of that happened after a guard entered the room with the beguiler's "evidence" framing the Duke and the King, responding, had the wizard petrify the Duke; therefore, outing the paladin had pretty much no substantial effect. It was no big deal to the king and can't be a big deal to the Duke (who i was going to out the paladin too eventually to get the paladin "taken care of"). The king determined that there was not a significant connection between the duchess's demise and any of us (all our stories collided but were going in different directions). He ordered us to keep all this silent and not leave the city until he could figure out what to do.

So, we ended the game pursuing a white haired dwarf who shaves his beard and is known by the moniker of No-beard, which from the zone of truth, we know to be the culprit who's theft caused the petrification of the Duchess.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So, if this post is to long, I just figured all those who helped me would like to hear the results of the first game. Basically, I hated it! Our only connection now, as a party, is to catch the white-haired dwarf and save the duchess (who my character doesn't even want to save). That's the only real goal of my character's brother (the druid) and the paladin as well as the cleric probably. The beguiler agreed to help us find the dwarf but that's it. The DM stated there is not going to be any big bad in this campaign so that leaves me wondering where the game is going to go after we save her or at least how long the game is going to run.

I don't know, I had the misconception that in a political game things are done more subtly, less overt, and more than anything less rushed (The king reads one note and offs the Duke? **** I would think he'd do a bigger investigation). I feel like I was black-balled from out of know where for scheming and plotting. But, what the ****? Isn't that what political games are about?

I mean I probably was unwise in a few of my actions (I wouldn't have framed the beguiler if I could go back; especially, since the beguiler is the best bud of the DM in real life, but I thought they could play fair) but to bust out a zone of truth with a ridiculous save just when we are starting to define both our characters and the campaign is ****ing stupid.

I wanted to work toward uncovering the secret like a reporter of sorts. Now I feel like I just got my big story taken out from under me. I mean there was no reason to take said actions. If he wanted to place a little conflict against the players actions he could have just used me! My character was/is conflict...he didn't need all that bull****. Oh well I'll end my rant now.

I think one thing is for sure, what little motivation I have left to play this character will be used towards pursuing different goals. My goal now, is to off the king (that's pretty much the same goal), seek revenge on the king's wizard, get the beguiler killed in the most satisfying (for me) humiliating (for him) way, and I don't know seek revenge against the dm lol (I know never a good thing lol and I may just be being a spoil-sport but meh).

Any ideas on a way to do this would be much appreciated. Hell becoming the big bad evil would be awesome especially if said degree of evil was resonated from killing my own brother, the paladin, the cleric, and the beguiler.

So, any way to accomplish this with literally no help from the DM? Otherwise I guess quitting is the best option lol.