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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Welcome to the latest incarnation of the Class and Level Geekery thread! Here, we are discussing what the possible stats are for each of the six OOTS members. Below is my personal estimate of the characters' stats. I will update this post as the discussion continues and as subsequent strips reveal more information about OOTS. When I have to cite to a post where justification is given, I do so with a hyperlinked asterisk

    Please note that we all know that Rich isn't necessarily being careful about the rules. Funny always trumps rules. Thus, there will always be some dispute as to some of the stats as some jokes are used as evidence as abilities and other strips are used as evidence of funny.

    We also discuss the stats of other characters in OOTS, such as Xykon, the Linear Guild, Miko and others. I only ask that we not discuss the stats of characters that are from other stories, movies, comic strips and so on. Thanks and welcome!

    Be sure to read the FAQ*


    Roy Greenhilt
    Lawful Good, Human Male Fighter 12
    Attributes (39 pt buy min):
    Str ≥20 (from magic item or level boost*[/sup])
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ≥16 (consistent with Giant's description of Miko fight*)
    Int 14-18 (“very good"*, but V's Int is "higher"*)
    Wis ≥14 (“very good"*)
    Cha ≥12 (“decent*)
    Feats (13): Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Specialization (greatsword), Endurance...
    Skills (≥60): Intimidate, Ride 1... No Bluff or Sense Motive.
    Abilities: Favored class (any)
    Items: Armor (medium*), Bedroll, Boots, greatsword +5 (with other unspecified bonuses), oil of shillelagh, potion of delay poison, Bag of Tricks...

    Belkar Bitterleaf
    Chaotic Evil, Halfling Male Ranger ≥11*/Barbarian ≥1* (character level ≥13)
    Attributes (19 pt buy min):
    Str ≥14 ("jump... exceeded movement..."*)
    Dex ≥15 (to use Two-Weapon Pounce)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int ~10
    Wis ≤9 ("I have an ... ability score penalty" in Profession skill checks)
    Cha ≤10 (V includes him in those w/out any Cha)
    Feats (10): Craft Disturbing Mental Image, EnduranceB, Greater Two-Weapon FightingB, Improved Sunder, Improved Two-Weapon FightingB, TrackB, Power Attack, Two-Weapon FightingB, Two-Weapon Pounce...
    Skills (89): Balance ≥5, Climb, Craft (Trapmaking), Hide (“a good Hide skill”) (+4), Intimidate (sufficient to intimidate cowardly eye of fear and flame), Jump, Listen 0 (+2), Move Silently (“High”) (+2), Profession (gourmet chef) 4, Search 0, Sense Motive 0, Speak languageB (halfling), Spot 0, Survival 0.
    Abilities: +1 saves, +1 thrown weapons, +2 v fear, Animal companion, Evasion, Fast movement, Favored class (rogue), Favored enemy x3 (probably humanoid (reptilian), humanoid (human) and one other), Rage, Small size, Swift tracker, Wild empathy, Woodland stride
    Items: Chef's Hat, Cloak, 3 or more small magical daggers, red chalk, Bedroll, lead sheet, Mama Bitterleaf's Secret +2 Circumstance Bonus Ingredient, Mr. Scruffy, Ring of Jumpng +20, stilts, Sapphire guard disguise, string...

    Durkon Thundershield
    Lawful Good, Dwarven Male Cleric13
    Attributes (12 pt buy min):
    Str ≥14 (carries V while flying)
    Dex <10 (in a Dragon article, says he has a Dex penalty)
    Con ~12 (no evidence, dwarf)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis ≥17 (to use Control Weather scroll)
    Cha ≤10 ("low Charisma modifier" and V includes him in those w/out any Cha)
    Feats (5): Extra Turning (probable, though not definite)...
    Skills (≥31): Heal ≥1, Knowledge (Religion) ≥1 (but not much greater), Ride 0, Speak language (dwarven)... (No Listen)
    Abilities: +1 v orcs and goblinoids, +2 v spells and poison, +4 dodge AC v giants, +2 to Appraise and Craft stone and metal, bless beer*, clerical spells (with homebrew domains), darkvision, dwarf movement, favored class - fighter, stability, stonecunning, turn undead, weapon familiarity (dwarven waraxe, urgrosh)
    Items: Amulet of Natural Armor, flask, full plate armor, holy symbol, heirloom shield, heirloom warhammer, Bedroll, religious vestments, Scroll of Sending, spyglass, belt pouch...

    Elan
    Chaotic Good Human Male Bard 13/Dashing Swordsman1
    Attributes (16 pt buy min):
    Str ~10 (no evidence)
    Dex ≥14 (weapon finesse, tumble)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int ≤9 (V says can't "manage ... cantrips"; Giant says "Int penalty"*)
    Wis ≤9 (Roy says he doesn't even have a "smidgen" of Wisdom)
    Cha ≥20 (to gain the 5th level spell slot required to have 5th level bardic spells at 13th level)
    Feats (6): Dodge, Still Spell, Weapon Finesse...
    Skills (≥80): Diplomacy, Hide (wished he "had put more ranks in Hide"), Listen, Move Silently ≤1, Perform (Sing) ≥6, Perform (Stringed Instruments) ≥6, Perform (wind instruments), Ridecc≥2, Speak Language ≤4(less than Haley's Intelligence Bonus), Tumble...
    Abilities: bardic music, bardic lore, charismatic strike, countersong, fascinate, favored class (any), glass damage immunity, inspire competence, inspire courage +2, inspire greatness, song of freedom, suggestion
    Items: Belt of charisma, dashing outfit, +3 keen rapier, lute, Banjo; no armor.
    Spells (per day ≥ 3 5 4 4 3 1; known 6 4 4 4 4 2): Animate Rope, Disguise Self, Greater Dispel Magic, Major Image, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Mending, Neutralize Poison, Prestidigitation, Silent Image, Summon Plot Exposition.

    Haley Starshine
    Chaotic Good, Human Female Rogue15
    Attributes (26 pt buy min):
    Str 11-15 (high enough to carry Belkar, but must drag Roy)
    Dex 20-21 ("modifier of +5"*)
    Con ≥14 (consistent with Giant's description of Miko fight*)
    Int ≥12 (received bonus languages)
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha ~10 (no evidence)
    Feats (6+2): Dodge, Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Rapid Shot.
    Skills (≥159): Appraise (high), Bluff 16 (maxed ranks), Disable Device, Forgery, Hide ≥15, Knowledge (Arcane) (probable), Open Lock ≥15, Ride 0, Search, Sense Motive ≥2, Tumble, Use Rope ≥8...
    Abilities: Evasion, Favored class (any), Improved uncanny dodge, Sneak attack +8d6, 2 Special abilities (both are feats), Trapfinding, Trap sense +5, Uncanny dodge
    Items: Magic leather armor, dyed Boots of Speed, 8 Bags of Holding, +5 bow of icy air freshness, quivers of green arrows (inc'g silver and cold iron), masterworked lockpicks, rope, Bedroll, at least 200,000 gp in cash...

    Vaarsuvius
    Non-evil alignment, Elven Ambiguously Gendered Wizard 14
    Attributes (12 pt buy min):
    Str ≤9 ("I have a Strength penalty")
    Dex 10-11 (“no real attack bonus” on rays*)
    Con ≤12 (consistent with Giant's description of Miko fight*)
    Int 23, 19 unmodified (based on spells cast and limits thereof)
    Wis 10-12 ("moderate wisdom"*)
    Cha 6-9 (can return as a ghost with "poor charisma"*)
    Feats (9): AlertnessB, Empower Spell, Martial Weapon ProficiencyB (composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow and shortsword), Maximiz Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe ScrollB... Not Silent Spell* or Still Spell
    Skills (97): Concentrate ≤15, Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge (Arcane), Listen (+2), Ride 0, Spot (+2), Search 0 (+2), Speak language (elven), Spellcraft...
    Abilities: +2 v enchantment, Barred school (Conjuration and Necromancy), Specialized school (Evocation), Favored class (wizard), Immune to sleep, Low-light vision, Summon familiar...
    Items: Headband of Intellect +4 (based on Intelligence calculations), Ring of Wizardry (affects level ≥3 spells), raven familiar, robes, many spellbooks, ink, paper, two small gemstones, some item that increases Intelligence by at least 4*, Finding Plot Holes for Dummies, nine books of unknown title, jar of diamond dust, bauble, raven-sized sombrero, fake beard and mustache. No potions or scrolls...
    Spells (per day -- 4+1 6+1 6+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 2+1): Banishment, Bugsby's Grasping Hand, Bull's Strength, Chain Lightning, Charm Monster, Cone of Cold, Crushing Despair, Detect Magic, Dimensional Anchor, Disintegrate, Dispel Magic, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion, Expeditious Retreat, Explosive Runes, Feather Fall, Fireball, Fire Trap, Forcecage, Fly, Grasping Hand, Gust of Wind, Haste, Hold Person, Hold Portal, Identify, Invisibility, discount Invisibility Sphere, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Mass Bear's Endurance. Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Enlarge Person, Owl's Wisdom, Power Word Blind, Prestidigitation, Prismatic Spray, Protection From Arrows, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility, Sending, Sleep, Suggestion, Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying, Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger, Vampiric Touch, Veil...
    Last edited by Wrecan; 2009-09-22 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Haley has 200,000 gp!
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Frequently Asked Questions

    Q. Where did you get this idea?
    A. The first incarnation of this thread was started by runolfr in the old version of the message boards. Everybody is always talking about this stuff and this thread is intended to be a central repository for all discussions of the stats of OOTS and the various NPCs (though I'm only keeping track of OOTS stats). You can read the prior version of this thread here:
    Class and Level Geekery
    Class and Level Geekery II
    Class and Level Geekery III.

    Q. Doesn't Comic X demonstrate Vaarsuvius' gender?
    A. No. No! NO! Please read the FAQ. Better yet, I'll quote it verbatim:
    Q: Is Vaarsuvius male or female?

    A: I will never reveal the truth! Bwahaha! Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception, not the actual reality of the situation.

    Q. When do the OOTS PCs level up?
    A. OOTS is 10th level some time before episode 1, 11th level at episode 12, 12th level at 124, 13th level by 397 (Elan's 13th level was in his new prestige class), and Belkar hit 14th level in 515 (although if he failed his save against the wight's level drain, he'd still be 13th level). Haley was 15th level some time before 615. Vaarsuvius is definitively 14th by 627 (which is the definitive indication that OOTS ceased leveling up at the same rate since Roy's death). (Durkon may also be 15th level.) Elan raised a level in 647, and has 13 levels of bard and one or more levels of Dashing Swordsman. If Roy is raised from the dead, he will likely be reduced to 12th level.

    Q. Why don't you list character ages?
    A. A few reasons. First, age is only relevant in D&D if one changes Age Categories. As far as we can tell, everybody is in the "Adult" Age category. Second, the Giant has not been very, how shall we say, consistent, on character ages. Since there's no mechanical (read geeky) benefit/penalty to any specific age, unless someone changes age category in a strip, we're not tracking it.

    Q. In Comic 2, Elan praises his "six new skill points". Since human bards get 7+Int skill points per level, doesn't this mean that he has an Int penalty of -1 and an Intelligence of 8 or 9?
    A. No. According to the Giant, he's referring to the the new rule for bards and skill points, which is 6/level (not including racial and ability bonuses), and that's 7+Int skill points per level, not per edition conversion. Elan hadn't just gained a level.

    Q. Does Comic 17 mean that Belkar has a sonic sunder attack?
    A. No. it would ruin the joke if Belkar was referring to some sonic attack, as opposed to making fun of the flimsiness of the standard rapier.

    Q. In Comic 28, didn't Haley claim to have a Charisma of 18?
    A. She was talking about Elan.

    Q. In Comic 31, Roy is more appetizing than Vaarsuvius to the illithid. Doesn't this mean Roy should have a higher Intelligence than Vaarsuvius?
    A. No. The illithid apparently measures the aggregate of all the mental Abilities (Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma). V has a high Intelligence, but average Wisdom and low Charisma. Roy needs to have a higher aggregate score.

    Q. In Comic 34, Roy says Elan's bardic bonus is +1, meaning he is no greater than 8th level. Doesn't this make him two levels lower than the rest of the party?
    A. Since everybody gains a level at the same time (more or less) in Comic 124, it seems everybody is the same level. Otherwise, they'd increase in level in staggered bits. So Comic 124 trumps Comic 34. And since we know the party level was 11 at the time, Elan's bardic bonus is higher than +1, notwithstanding what Roy says.

    Q. In Comic 38, Durkon tells Roy he's paralyzed because he was poisoned 17 times with Strength poison. Doesn't this mean Roy's Stength is 17?
    A. No. First poison inflicts variable Ability Damage. Being poisoned 17 times would mean he lost dozens of Strengh points. Second, your Strength can never be reduced below 0, no matter how much you're poisoned. The number 17 was chosen for its funny. It cannot indicate Roy's Strength.

    Q. Doesn't Comic 49 indicate Vaarsuvius has Time Stop, Meteor Swarm and Wish in the spellbook?
    A. No. Vaarsuvius was not even looking at the spellbook. It was likely an attempt to suggest the most outrageous spells for Zz'ditri's variant Fly spell. The evidence, at best, is inconclusive.

    Q. In Comic 58, Belkar uses a scroll of Cure Serious Wounds, which requires him to have a Wisdom of 14. Since Vaarsuvius cast Owl's Wisdom on him (which boosts your Wisdom by 4), he must have a Wisdom of 10. Why do you have him at less?
    A. That comic was trumped by the more recent Comic 475 in which Belkar admits to having an Ability score penalty to Profession checks. Since Wisdom is the Ability that modified Profession, Belkar cannot have a Wisdom above 9. So we are ignoring Comic 58 as one of those times where "funny trumps rules."

    Q. Wait a minute. Cure Serious Wounds is only a third-level spell on the clerical spell list. And since it was Durkon's scroll and Durkon is a cleric, wouldn't that mean Belkar only needed a 13 Wisdom, which means a 9 Wisdom before Vaarsuvius cast Owl's Wisdom?
    A. No. Scrolls have no class listed. You use the level of the spell on the caster's spell list. Cure Serious Wounds is a 4th level Ranger spell.

    Q. In Comic 73, Thor acts pretty chaotically and he's listed as Chaotic Good in Deities and Demigods. Since clerics cannot be more than one step removed from their deity, how can Durkon be lawful?
    A. The Thor in OOTS is not the Thor in Deities and Demigods. Thor is more likely Neutral Good with lots of Lawful and Chaotic characteristics. Either way, Durkon, is clearly Lawful Good.

    Q. Where's Elan's coffee maker (Comic 81), espresto box (Comic 84), squirrel, paddleball game, lantern, roller skate or jam (Comic 206)?
    A. From Comic 471, Elan appears to have lost all of his equipment when Nale temporarily switched places with him. So only the equipment he has been seen with since his escape from prison in Comic 387 will be listed.

    Q. From Comic 127, You use Vaarsuvius' statement that Elan can't use cantrips as evidence that Elan has under a 10 Intelligence. But Elan casts spells all the time.
    A. In D&D, wizards use Intelligence to cast spells and require Intelligence 10 to cast cantrips. Bards use Charisma. Vaarsuvius is saying Elan doesn't have the Intelligence needed to cast cantrips as a Wizard.

    Q. In Comic 170, Durkon gets a golden tankard. Why isn't that on his possessions?
    A. It's too big for Durkon to carry, so we assume it was left behind. If it shows up again, it will be placed on the possessions list.

    Q. In Comic 188, doesn't Vaarsuvius demonstrate the skill Speak Language (draconic)?
    A. Not necessarily. Vaarsuvius may also have ranks in Decipher Script (for which evidence has been found in one of the Dragon Magazine strips).

    Q. In Comic 219, Durkon is fighting ogres. Why is this strip referenced as his bonus for fighting giants?
    A. In D&D 3.5, ogres are of the "giant type", and dwarves (like Durkon) get a dodge bonus when fighting creatures of the giant type.

    Q. In Comic 245, Vaarsuvius and Haley only manage to save one bag of treasure. Why do you still list Haley as having eight bags of holding?
    A. The bag they rescued is not a bag of holding, but a regular sack of treasure. We know this because in Comic 130 we see what a bag of holding looks like, and it doesn't look like the sack of treasure in Comic 245. Haley keeps her bags of holding on her person. It wouldn't have needed rescuing.

    Q. In Comic 249, Belkar talks about Roy's "heavy armor". Why is he listed with only Medium armor?
    A. In order for Roy carrying Durkon (as he does in Comic 5) to make sense, Roy would need to be wearing nothing heavier than Medium armor. Otherwise, Roy runs no faster than Durkon. Thus, we assume Belkar is speaking descriptively about Roy's armor, in accordance with his Craft Disturbing Mental Images Feat.

    Q. In Comic 446, Vaarsuvius seems to cast chain lightning, no?
    A. No. That's just an artistic rendition of a standard lightning bolt.

    Q. Doesn't Comic 599 demonstrate that Vaarsuvius can cast Overland Flight?
    A. Quite probably. But until we get confirmation that Vaarsuvius flew farther than a 13-14th level wizard can fly using the Fly spell, we cannot state it with certainty.

    Q. Doesn't Comic 616 demonstrate that Belkar has Improved Trip and Improved Disarm? Crystal never got an AoO on him, which should mean he has those feats.
    A. Possibly. However, AoOs are not always shown in the comic. Crystal may have forgotten to use it, or may have missed and the Giant didn't bother to show it to us.

    Q. Doesn't Comic 624 demonstrate that Vaarsuvius has Bugsby's Flicking Finger and Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit?
    A. No. Those are just humorous uses of the Bugsby's Grasping Hand spell.
    Last edited by Wrecan; 2009-09-13 at 06:31 PM.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Reserved for Visual Aids
    Last edited by Wrecan; 2008-10-27 at 12:36 PM.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    I'd like to get this thread underway by reiterating my belief that #599 shows that Vaarsuvius has learned Overland Flight. Even if you want to assume (s)he has reached level 15, regular Fly would only give h** less than two miles of distance covered, and since (s)he's not landing on the island, h** destination must lie further on.

    Also, thinking like Vaarsuvius, why should you have to keep re-casting fly to go wherever you want to go when those spell slots could be kept for self defence?
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    See I think that if the Giant wanted her to have overland flight *that* would have been the spell she casted when we first saw she had fly. Therefore I think that either she casted it again, has that previously mentioned thired edition homeruled version or, my personal opinion, the Giant is being leniant on rules for better storytelling.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    i would like to throw some more copper pieces after the overland flight theory.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apelord69 View Post
    See I think that if the Giant wanted her to have overland flight *that* would have been the spell she casted when we first saw she had fly. Therefore I think that either she casted it again, has that previously mentioned thired edition homeruled version or, my personal opinion, the Giant is being leniant on rules for better storytelling.
    Fly's good for ship-to-shore and other short distance travel, and it's also faster (60 foot per round compared to O.F.'s 40 foot), which is why Vaarsuvius chose to cast it: (s)he could get back to the ship (and h** research) more quickly.
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper


    Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apelord69 View Post
    See I think that if the Giant wanted her to have overland flight *that* would have been the spell she casted when we first saw she had fly. Therefore I think that either she casted it again, has that previously mentioned thired edition homeruled version or, my personal opinion, the Giant is being leniant on rules for better storytelling.
    Or (s)he could have both, and (s)he used Fly the first time because (s)he only needed to transport Durkon and hirself to the other boat. Why expend a 5th level spell when a 3rd level spell works perfectly in that situation? Especially when you're a Wizard.
    Also, in 599, (s)he has obviously cast a flight spell of some kind before talking to Durkon; which makes Fly even less feasible, because every round counts when you only have 1 min/level for long-distance flight.
    Awesome Avatar by Shattersnap.

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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    I agree. Fly and Overland Flight are too useful not to grab when you have the opportunity, and a wizard departing for a trip over the sea just screams 'I have Overland Flight'. Or 'Oversea Flight', anyway. :D

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    I still think that we should include that Katos. We know that they're 6th level fighters.

    And you know, all the other characters. Why isn't it Wrecan that does that, anyways?

    Also, update your signature. Your link is old.
    Last edited by Shadic; 2008-10-27 at 02:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadic View Post
    And you know, all the other characters. Why isn't it Wrecan that does that, anyways?
    I'm lazy. If you like, you can do it, or wait for Chrismith to port it over.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Fly's good for ship-to-shore and other short distance travel, and it's also faster (60 foot per round compared to O.F.'s 40 foot), which is why Vaarsuvius chose to cast it: (s)he could get back to the ship (and h** research) more quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    Or (s)he could have both, and (s)he used Fly the first time because (s)he only needed to transport Durkon and hirself to the other boat. Why expend a 5th level spell when a 3rd level spell works perfectly in that situation? Especially when you're a Wizard.
    Also, in 599, (s)he has obviously cast a flight spell of some kind before talking to Durkon; which makes Fly even less feasible, because every round counts when you only have 1 min/level for long-distance flight.
    Well you've convinced me (although speaking is a free action, so the chat wouldn't count for anything)

    _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

    I'd like to say that Dashing Swordsman has a "Dramatic instinct" class feature.

    EDIT:
    Another - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html
    Last edited by Mc. Lovin'; 2008-10-27 at 04:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Other characters

    Stats for characters who aren't the Order of the Stick.

    Team Evil

    Redcloak
    Lawful Evil, Goblin Male, Cleric 15+
    Attributes:
    Str ~8 (no evidence, racial)
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis 20+ (save DC for L7 spell is >21)
    Cha 12+ (repeated use of Rebuke Undead)
    Feats (5+): Extend Spell, Craft Wonderous Item (helped Xykon create his phylactery)
    Skills (36+): Diplomacy; +4 racial bonus on Move Silently and Ride checks.
    Abilities: Bolster/Rebuke/Command Undead, two Domains (Destruction and Law), darkvision 60'.
    Items: Unholy symbol (also Xykon’s phylactery), Crimson Mantle, spyglass.

    Xykon
    Chaotic Evil, Human Male Lich, Sorcerer 21+
    Attributes:
    Str 14+ (Able to carry two goblins and an elf while flying)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con n/a (undead)
    Int ~13 (likely started at 8 or 9, gets +5 from being venerable and becoming a lich)
    Wis ~13 (likely started at 8 or 9, gets +5 from being venerable and becoming a lich)
    Cha 28+ (based on Start of Darkness events)
    Feats (7+): Maximize Spell, Epic Spellcasting, some sort of crafting feat
    Skills (46+): Bluff; +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks, Spellcraft 24+, Knowledge (Arcana) 24+ (Prereqs for Epic Spellcasting feat)
    Abilities: Fear aura, paralyzing touch, turn resistance, damage reduction, immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph, and mind-affecting attacks.
    Items: Widescreen crystal ball, Teevo, crown that radiates evil, headband likely belonging to Dorukan.
    SoD spoiler:
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    Also has (or had) a gem containing the souls of Dorukan and Lirian.

    Spells Known: Animate Dead, Cloister, Cloudkill, Energy Drain, Finger of Death, Ghostform, Greater Invisibility, Invisibility, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Meteor Swarm, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Overland Flight,
    Ray of Frost, Shatter, Soul Bind, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Insanity, Teleport, Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage.

    Tsukiko
    Evil, Human Female, Wizard 3+ / Cleric 3+ / Mystic Theurge 6+
    (minimum CL 9 for both divine and arcane spells)
    Attributes:
    Str 10+ (no evidence)
    Dex 10+ (no evidence)
    Con 10+ (no evidence)
    Int 15+ (minimum to cast Teleport as a wizard)
    Wis 15+ (minimum to cast Flame Strike as a cleric)
    Cha 10+ (no evidence, assumed not to be a Sorcerer or Favored Soul)
    Feats (6+): Scribe scroll, Quicken Spell
    Skills (42+): Knowledge (arcana) 6+, Knowledge (religion) 6+ (Requirements for Mystic Theurge)
    Abilities: Unknown.
    Items: Unknown.
    Spells Known: Fly, Lightning Bolt, Shout, Teleport, Dominate Person, Fireball, Invisibility, Electric Orb Fire Orb, Lesser Acid Orb, Cold Orb

    The Linear Guild

    Nale
    Lawful Evil, Human Male, Fighter 1+ - Rogue 1+ - Sorcerer 6+
    Attributes:
    Str ~10 (no evidence)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha 15+ (Minimum to cast sending)
    Feats (8): Unknown.
    Skills (49+): Bluff
    Abilities: Sneak attack +1d6 (or more), trapfinding
    Items: Longsword, +3 Longsword (currently held by Cliffport PD), chain shirt (probably masterwork to minimize spell failure chances), cure potions.
    Known Spells: Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, Suggestion, Prestidigitation. Nale claims to specialize in Enchantment spells.

    Sabine
    Evil Succubus, Outsider, Rogue 1+ (Stated in No Cure for the Paladin Blues)
    Attributes:
    Str =18 (carried Nale and Thog while flying)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha ~10 (no evidence)
    Feats (5): Unknown
    Skills (120+): Unknown
    Abilities: Energy drain, shape-shifting, DR against either cold iron or silver (or both?), plane shift 1/day
    Items: Sabine carried a crossbow in the Dungeon of Dorukan, but hasn't been seen with it lately.

    Thog
    Chaotic Evil, Male Half-Orc, Fighter 2 - Barbarian 10
    Attributes:
    Str 14+ (able to carry Hilgya while flying, likely higher)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int 8 or lower ("Int was his dump stat.")
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial)
    Feats (7): 2 Fighter bonus feats
    Skills (56+): Unknown
    Abilities: Fast movement, rage 3/day, improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +3, DR 2/-, Darkvision, Orc Blood.
    Items: +3 Great Axe (currently held by Cliffport PD), medium armor, Celine Dion album, Leprechaun suit.

    Part-time Members
    Spoiler
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    Leeky Windstaff
    Neutral Evil, Male Gnome, Druid 14+ (cast Firestorm and Heal)
    Attributes:
    Str ~8 (no evidence, racial)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~12 (no evidence, racial)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis 17+ (Minimum to cast Fire Storm)
    Cha ~10 (no evidence)
    Feats (5): Leadership
    Skills (66+): Unknown
    Abilities: Low-Light Vision; +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions; +1 DC for all saving throws against illusion spells cast; +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids; +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type; +2 racial bonus on Listen checks; +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks; spell-Like abilities (CL 1; save DC 10 + Cha modifier + spell level): 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute), dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation; wild shape (4/day, large/tiny/plant); venom immunity; resist nature's lure; trackless step; woodland stride; wild empathy; nature sense; animal companion.
    Items: Staff (properties unknown, broken by Durkon's thunderclap)

    Pompey
    Chaotic Evil, Male Half-Elf, Wizard (Conjurer) 4+
    Attributes:
    Str ~10 (no evidence)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~10 (no evidence)
    Int 12+ (Minimum to cast Summon Monster II)
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha ~10 (no evidence)
    Feats (3): Scribe scroll, possibly Still Spell and/or Silent Spell
    Skills (55+): Unknown
    Abilities: Immune to sleep spells and similar magical effects; +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects; Low-Light Vision; +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks; +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.
    Items: Unknown
    Spells Known: Animate Rope, Summon Monster II, at least 5 touch-range buff spells -- lowest-level possibilities are Mage Armor, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance.

    Yokyok (Deceased)
    Spoiler
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    Possibly Lawful Good, Male Kobold, Unknown Class (may include Duellist PrC)
    Items: Rapier
    This is probably all we'll ever know about Yokyok, since he was killed by a swarm of greedy adventurers before really demonstrating his abilities and his head made into a chip bowl by Belkar.


    Hilgya
    Female Dwarf, Cleric 7+
    Hilgya is known to worship Loki, and one of her domains is Fire. The other is likely chaos.
    Wis 14+ (Minimum to cast Restoration)
    Items: Horned helment, armor, shield, holy symbol of Loki


    Zz'dtri
    Male Drow, Wizard 11+
    Transmuter (Cast six Fly spells in one day), barred schools (two of: Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy)
    Int 16+ (Minimum to cast Flesh to Stone)
    Feats: possibly Two-Weapon Fighting
    Weapons: Pair of scimitars
    Spells: Flesh to Stone, Fly (3.0 version), Shield, Wall of Ice. Unspecified attack spell characterized by green lightning.

    Yikyik (Deceased)
    Spoiler
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    Male Kobold, Ranger
    Feats: Combat Reflexes



    The Sapphire Guard

    Miko Miyazaki (deceased)
    Spoiler
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    Lawful Good, Human Female, Monk 2 / Fallen Paladin 12-14 (based on number of attacks per round)
    Attributes:
    Str 13+ (to wield Katana one-handed)
    Dex 17+ (required for Improved 2-Weapon Fighting)
    Con 12+ (no clear evidence, but has high damage capacity)
    Int 10+ (not stupid, but no demonstration of high Int)
    Wis 11+ (Minimum to cast Cure Light Wounds)
    Cha 14+ (effective Divine Grace and substantial Laying On Hands)
    Feats (6-7): Two-Weapon Fighting, Stunning Fist, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword/Katana), Power Attack, Cleave, Track
    Skills (30+): Ride, Survival +1, Handle Animal (not demonstrated, but likely), Knowledge (the Planes).
    Abilities: Evasion, flurry of blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, (Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows). Unavailable Paladin abilities spoilered-out.
    Spoiler
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    Aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount (Windstriker), remove disease 2/week, smite evil 3/day, spells (1/1).

    Items: Magic boots, cloak and armor, Katana, Wakizashi, known to carry Cure potions.


    Hinjo
    Lawful Good, Human Male, Paladin 11+ (appears to have 3 attacks/round)
    Attributes:
    Str 10+ (no evidence)
    Dex 10+ (no evidence)
    Con 10+ (no clear evidence, though likely high)
    Int 10+ (not stupid, but no demonstration of high Int)
    Wis 12+ (has a good will save, otherwise unknown)
    Cha 12+ (Laying On Hands heals wounds)
    Feats (4+): Unknown.
    Skills (28+): Ride, Handle Animal (not demonstrated, but likely).
    Abilities: Aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount (Dire Wolf "Argent"), remove disease, smite evil , spells (?).
    Items: Cold-iron katana, silver katana, magic boots, cloak and armor.

    O-Chul
    Lawful Good, Human Male, Fighter/Paladin. Level unknown, but likely 140+ hit points. Was lower level than Hinjo prior to captivity.
    Attributes:
    Str ~10 (no evidence)
    Dex ~10 (no evidence)
    Con ~23-27 (Has a Con in the mid-20's)
    Int ~10 (no evidence)
    Wis ~10 (no evidence)
    Cha ~10 (He admits that Cha is his dump stat)
    Feats (4+): Unknown.
    Skills (39+): Bluff 0, Swim,
    Abilities: Aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount (?), remove disease, smite evil, spells (?).
    Items: None (currently in POW status).

    Lien
    Lawful Good, Human Female, Paladin 6+ (has a large shark mount); lower level than Hinjo
    Attributes:
    Str 13+ (Prequisite for cleave)
    Dex 10+ (no evidence)
    Con 10+ (no evidence)
    Int 10+ (no evidence)
    Wis 10+ (no evidence)
    Cha 12+ (Laying On Hands heals wounds)
    Feats (4+): Weapon Focus (Longspear), Power Attack, Cleave
    Skills (27+): Ride, Handle Animal (not demonstrated, but likely).
    Abilities: Aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount (Large Shark "Razor"), smite evil , spells (?).
    Items: Longspear, magic boots, cloak and armor.

    Other Characters
    Celia
    Female Sylph, 6+ HD (can cast Lightning Bolt)
    Cha 13+
    Abilities: Casts sorcerer spells as a caster of a level equal to her HD, can detect magic auras
    Spells known: Alter Self, Lightning Bolt

    Julia Greenhilt
    True Neutral Human Female, Wizard 3
    Str ~10 (No evidence)
    Dex ~10 (No evidence)
    Con ~10 (No evidence)
    Int 15+ (Minimum to cast sending from a scroll)
    Wis ~10 (No evidence)
    Cha ~10 (No evidence)
    Feats (3): Unknown
    Skills (24+): Unknown
    Spells known: Magic Missile

    Samantha (Deceased)
    Spoiler
    Show

    Evil, Human Female, Sorcerer 12+ (Can cast at least 3 level 6 spells per day)
    Str ~10 (No evidence)
    Dex ~10 (No evidence)
    Con ~10 (No evidence)
    Int ~10 (No evidence)
    Wis ~10 (No evidence)
    Cha 20-21 (Sorcerer with high save DCs)
    Feats (5): Maximize Spell, possibly Spell Focus (Evocation) and Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) (her level 3 save DCs are "too high" for Haley); not Still Spell or Silent Spell.
    Skills (42+): Unknown
    Spells known: Chain Lightning, Fireball, Fly, Hold Person, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missle, Protection From Arrows
    Last edited by Chrismith; 2009-03-14 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    I'm lazy. If you like, you can do it, or wait for Chrismith to port it over.
    Heck, I'm lazy, too. I'm not opposed to including extras like Daigo and Kazumi, I just don't really have the time to go back through the comics and gather all of the info. If anyone wants to put together some stat blocks for those characters or any others (along with comic references for each stat/ability/whatever), feel free to post them or PM them to me and I'll add them to the list.

    And if anyone wanted to take over maintenance of the secondary characters, I wouldn't argue -- as I said, I don't have all that much free time these days.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    The MITD really doesn't have a "high int", it behaves entirely too stupid for that all of the time. Its intelligence is quite possibly not as abysmal as its wisdom score, but it nevertheless certainly isn't "high".
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Did you look at the linked comic? Go (the game he and O'Chul were likely discussing) is a very complex game; the fact that the MitD is rapidly learning it (and presumably getting good at it) demonstrates a high Int score, even if it's not an ability he often gets to use.
    "Thus, we are all composed of stardust, or if you're feeling a tad more cynical, solar excrement." -- Dr. James Kakalios

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNovak View Post
    Did you look at the linked comic?
    Obviously I did. That does not at all demonstrate a "high" int score. It could also mean O-Chul is just being nice to, you know, his only friend in the world atm, or that people with low intelligence can nevertheless be good at some particular game. "High intelligence" encompasses way, way more than being able to learn one game - it also means not being a complete dumbass all the time. The MITD has not proven being actually able to learn Go, and it has proven being UNable to learn e.g. about gates, scrabble, about multiple undead, and so on and so forth.

    (edit) at best, it suggests a somewhat below average intelligence, like Elan or Belkar. "High" intelligence means Roy, or Vaarsuvius, or Shojo.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2008-10-28 at 04:46 PM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Well, I've seen it theorized that is under some sort of enchantment that prevents it from seeing the Gates, possibly as a result of some sort of warding spell built into them. (Maybe one of his cousins was working for one of the Order of the Scribble's villains, and they thought it would be prudent to keep his whole race from being able to see them.) As for the rest, especially with Xykon's "brothers," I think they could indicate an extremely low Wisdom, rather than Intelligence. Once latches onto an idea ("Xykon has three brothers and can cast cleric spells!"), he finds it very difficult to alter it. That could also be pointed to as an example of a low Intelligence, though; I think it's fair to say that, like the alignment system, the difference between Intelligence, Wisdom, and even Charisma has infinite room for debate.

    Now, moving on to a completely subjective argument, I call upon the invisible force which controls the OotS world, and from which Elan draws his greatest insights: Story. And just as I don't believe Xykon's soul bind gem was destroyed along with Dorukan's Gate because there would've been more Story attached, I don't think O-Chul would've mentioned 's talent for Go if it wasn't implying something, specifically, a higher Intelligence than we've seen so far.

    Again, completely subjective, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
    "Thus, we are all composed of stardust, or if you're feeling a tad more cynical, solar excrement." -- Dr. James Kakalios

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Knowledge of undead = Knowledge (Religion)
    Knowledge of gates = Knowledge (Arcana)

    So, by this, we can conclude that MitS does not invest heavily in knowledge of magic and beast skills.

    His childlike mentality and naivety point to a low wisdom score, yes. Whether it be difficulty in distinguishing friends from foes, inattentiveness and short attention span, or what-have-you, it's hard to dispute this one.

    But there's not much concrete evidence either way for MitS's Int.

    Elan, on the other hand, has demonstrated numerous direct misconceptions about basic things (Armor check penalties on the hide skill, anyone?). That he speaks with authority and knowledge in one area (plot/drama) shows only that he has a knowledge skill, and is indicative of a lone knowledge skill, amidst the sea of idiocy.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNovak View Post
    Again, completely subjective, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
    If it's completely subjective, it doesn't belong in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    But there's not much concrete evidence either way for MitS's Int.
    Precisely. That's why the list shouldn't point out that it "might" be "high", when it "might" just as equally be low or average.

    Belkar "might" have a constitution of 23. Or he "might" have a stash of poison that we haven't seen yet. But we don't list those in this thread because there's no concrete evidence.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    I still think Hinjo has the Swift Call feat (from Complete Champion) since he was able to call Argent, mount him, and attack during one jump in 588

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    There's a mistake in Durkon's abilities:
    He does not have an agility onus when fighting Giants, the creatures he fought in +219 are Ogres

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Talshor View Post
    There's a mistake in Durkon's abilities:
    He does not have an agility onus when fighting Giants, the creatures he fought in +219 are Ogres
    ...which have the giant type. He's a dwarf, so he gets an agility bonus when fighting creatures of the giant type.
    Last edited by Greg; 2008-10-29 at 08:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain et al View Post
    [Discussion about MitD's possible stats]
    I've thought about it, and I've decided to remove the MitD from the list of characters.

    Why? Well, first, I agree with those who were arguing that the Go scene might imply a higher-than-previously-thought intelligence for the MitD. The Giant said in the newest book that there are enough clues sprinkled throughout the comic for someone to deduce what the Monster in the Darkness really is, and if that scene with O-chul isn't a clue then I don't know what is. (Actually, is there some sort of game-playing idiot-savant monster in any of the books? Maybe I just figured it out!)

    The thing is, hunting down these clues is a decidedly different game than nailing down all of the other characters' stats (as evidenced by the fact that the MitD's stat block was just a bulleted list of things we can guess). Really, until the MitD is unveiled once and for all, anything we list will just be speculation, and I'm sure there are a hundred other threads for that. We're in the business of gathering verifiable information about these characters, and there's just nothing verifiable about the Monster in the Darkness right now.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apelord69 View Post
    I'd like to say that Dashing Swordsman has a "Dramatic instinct" class feature.

    EDIT:
    Another - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html
    Anyone think about this?

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apelord69 View Post
    Anyone think about this?
    Eh, that (and the previously cited examples) could just be his bardic talent for meta-story knowledge. Much like his dramatic escape from the dungeon. Granted, that didn't involve him guessing at something he didn't already know, but the only thing that seems (and even that's not explicit) directly linked to his training as a Dashing Swordsman was when he used figured out where to find Haley and Nale....

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Vaarsuvius is at LEAST 14th level; Prismatic Spray is a 7th-level spell.

    However, back in Azure City, he was 13th-level. This is interesting to note, but I'm sure the sea trolls gave some XP.

    You have him listed as "at least 13th", so I thought that would be helpful.
    Last edited by Shortgeek; 2008-10-30 at 05:32 PM.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shortgeek View Post
    Vaarsuvius is at LEAST 14th level; Prismatic Spray is a 7th-level spell.
    Which you get at level 13 as a wizard. Although it seems likely that he is level 14 with 22 INT.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Which you get at level 13 as a wizard. Although it seems likely that he is level 14 with 22 INT.
    Oh, wow, I'm dumb. I was looking at the sorcerer tables. I'm sorry.

    Why is that likely? I'm a bit slow. Is it the overlord flight thing?
    Last edited by Shortgeek; 2008-10-30 at 06:03 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IV (some [spoiler]s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shortgeek View Post
    Oh, wow, I'm dumb. I was looking at the sorcerer tables. I'm sorry.

    Why is that likely? I'm a bit slow. Is it the overlord flight thing?
    It's likely due to the argued point on V not trancing, If the side of V not trancing means s/he is operating on "one day's spells" then s/he has gone over what a 13th wizard could cast. The only way s/he could cast what s/he has cast so far without recharging is with 14th level and 22 Int. (and that is my position.)

    Also Wrecan has Belkar at 14th level. He ASSUMES that Belkar made his Fort save for retaining his level gain, but he refuses to assume that Haley has leveled. Irregardless of His XP penalty, and his inability to kill anything within the city limits (neither of which affects Haley) so WHY is Haley still 13th level?
    Last edited by baerdith; 2008-10-30 at 08:39 PM.
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    I am a Neutral Good Human Bard/Wizard (6th/4th Level)


    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 12
    Dexterity- 15
    Constitution- 12
    Intelligence- 18
    Wisdom- 16
    Charisma- 16

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