Erfworld 128 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 116

[Sieggy]

It is possible that her gwiffon can outfly Stanley's dwagon, but my money says that it can't.

But how much of Stanley's move was expended prior to getting ambushed? Since Jillian & company were laying in wait, they haven't expended any move yet. If Stanley has expended more than the difference between the dwagon's move and the gwiffon's move, then overtaking is very likely. Which could make for another encounter between Jack & Jillian, which has a lot of plotamantic possibilities . . .

[DevilDan]

But how much of Stanley's move was expended prior to getting ambushed? Since Jillian & company were laying in wait, they haven't expended any move yet. If Stanley has expended more than the difference between the dwagon's move and the gwiffon's move, then overtaking is very likely. Which could make for another encounter between Jack & Jillian, which has a lot of plotamantic possibilities . . .

It doesn't really matter that they were lying in wait. What matters is that they'll have all their moves once their turn starts... and they'll also be fully healed.

[reignofevil]

If jack can turn them into rocks in some random field, he can get out of this. Its not like he is heading into faq where only a few places to hide are available.

[teratorn]

But how much of Stanley's move was expended prior to getting ambushed? Since Jillian & company were laying in wait, they haven't expended any move yet. If Stanley has expended more than the difference between the dwagon's move and the gwiffon's move, then overtaking is very likely. Which could make for another encounter between Jack & Jillian, which has a lot of plotamantic possibilities . . .

There is no way Jillian will be able to find Stanley. She can not predict Stanley's path (he won't go straight from there) so there are hundreds of hexes where she'd need to look. With the veil bats are useless, and she doesn't have enough move for this kind of hunt.

Jillian knows the quickest route to GK. That's her best chance to get Stanley. The problem is that now TV knows about Faq and they may want to claim its ruins.

[Angband]

If jack can turn them into rocks in some random field, he can get out of this. Its not like he is heading into faq where only a few places to hide are available.

While Jillian and the Transylvitians would certainly have enough move to reach them (full move for them vs partial move for Stanely), keep in mind they won't have any intel as to which hex Stanley finally stops his move in.

On top of which, Jack will certainly cast another veil once they are done moving. We don't know if units on the move in Erfworld have a penalty to making spot checks, but its a common mechanic across a lot of games. So if they want a chance to blow the veil, they may have to stop and take the time to search each hex as they travel.

My guess is Jillian and Vinnie will head back to GK to rejoin the coalition (in the hope of catching Stanley on his way back). Their odds of finding him in the countryside are extremely poor.

I wonder if there will be tension between Jillian and the Transylvito forces? Now that Transylvito knows there's a ruined capital city close to them, they may seek to find it and rebuild the cities there themselves. Jillian was very paranoid about revealing that info (to the point that she didn't trust Vinnie or the Archons to relay that message for her). But now they know.

I suppose Jillian could head to Faq herself to claim it before anyone else does. But she's made it pretty clear she doesn't want to, so I doubt it.

[SteveMB]

But how much of Stanley's move was expended prior to getting ambushed? Since Jillian & company were laying in wait, they haven't expended any move yet.

In any case, their move will be fully replenished when their turn starts.

As already pointed out, the fast dwagons (56+ move) were used in the seige raids and croaked in the battle over the lake; the ones with Stanley are the slower ones that were deployed in the ring. Thus, Jillian probably would be able to catch up to Stanley... but she probably can't find him because she'd have to search multiple hexes where he might be, and even if she finds the right hex she'd still have to see through the effective veil Jack is now capable of casting.

[DevilDan]

I suppose Jillian could head to Faq herself to claim it before anyone else does. But she's made it pretty clear she doesn't want to, so I doubt it.

But she does feel some sense of duty to Faq. Tricky.

(Wow, this thread is seeing a serious level of repetition.)

[datalaughing]

Now see, I don't understand why everyone thinks that Jillian will assume Stanley is running right back to GK. We know that's where he's going because we saw his conversation with Jack.

Assuming that she hasn't had communication with Ansom's forces during Stanley's current turn, as far as Jillian knows GK is doomed within a turn. Ansom had better than 10:1 against GK's forces, and that was before Stanley took off with the dwagons. The situation was so unwinnable that Stanley himself, the leader of GK (one of the most fortified positions in erfworld because of its natural defenses), abandoned it as a lost cause. She knows this. So why would she think he'd go back and immediately follow with all her forces (not that she's actually in charge of what the TV guys do since Caesar got there)? He just got smacked around and lost most of his dwagons. No one in their right mind goes from that right into another battle that they'd already abandoned as a losing proposition (we know Stanley isn't the smartest guy, but still, if it wasn't for Jack's prodding, he probably wouldn't be headed back. He just didn't know what to do, and Jack gave him an idea in the guise of an "obvious" message from the Titans).

I'd say Jillian is far more likely to think that Stanley will A. Try to get to Faq in another way or by sneaking around them, in which case she should head there herself with whatever forces she can. B. Wait nearby until Jillian and the TV forces leave and then head for Faq, in which case they need to perform a lengthy, difficult (because of the foolamancer), and move-eating search of the nearby hexes. or C. Find some place else to start a new side. I don't know what the complications might be there or how Jillian would go about countering that.

Unless she's going to just give up on Stanley and head back to rejoin the RCC forces (which would be the worst idea ever if she's considered the possibility that Stanley is waiting nearby, because it would make the whole battle she just fought 100% pointless), there is no logical reason why she would make a beeline for GK because there's no logical reason to think that's where Stanley would go. Now if she communicates with Ansom and finds out that things are going badly and if she thinks Stanley might have been in communication with GK and heard the same, then she might head that way, and even then, given what we know he can do, I think Jack has a pretty good chance of keeping them undetected. Of course if they're both heading for GK, and they pass right over Stanley while he's veiled, he has to make sure that he doesn't accidentally run into them on his next turn. Without his three-caster link his knowledge about who is where isn't any better than anyone else's.

[SteveMB]

My guess is Jillian and Vinnie will head back to GK to rejoin the coalition (in the hope of catching Stanley on his way back). Their odds of finding him in the countryside are extremely poor.

Even if they don't figure out that Stanley is probably headed back to GK (since he left the hex heading east), they'd still probably head back there -- trying to find Stanley in the open country is difficult at best, and near hopeless now that Jack is back in action, so they might as well go where they can accomplish something useful.

Now see, I don't understand why everyone thinks that Jillian will assume Stanley is running right back to GK.

As I noted, she knows that Stanley headed out of the chokepoint hex heading east. That means he'd have to run the chokepoint again to get to Faq, but has an open path to GK. Those are his two obvious options (it's not out of the question that he might try to remain out in the field -- but if so then there's just no realistic chance of ever finding him until he decides to poke his head up and do something, which could be many turns in the future).

[DevilDan]

datalaughing, a lot of this was mentioned before:

His group "A" dwagons are gone. That likely means that the dragons he has now have less than 56 moves. But Stanley used up moves just getting to the mountain pass. I see no reason why Jillian et al cannot catch up to him once their turn begins, except that maybe they'd rather keep guarding that hex. After all, what's to prevent Stanley from doubling back, especially with Jack's assistance. They can assume that Stanley is returning to GK, but that's not a problem (or so they and Ansom think or thought) for the coalition: until the recent battle under GK, this was going to be a "curb-stomping."

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Jack used illusions to make Stanley think that he was heading west. But this only underlines the suspicions of some regarding the ulterior motives of former Faq casters.

[teratorn]

But she does feel some sense of duty to Faq. Tricky.

Caeser and the Don may decide it's too dangerous to let the ruins sitting there for Stanley. The exchange with Jillian will be fun.

[Fez]

Caeser and the Don may decide it's too dangerous to let the ruins sitting there for Stanley. The exchange with Jillian will be fun.

Absolutely.

The ruins were only safe from the Transyvitans while they were hidden. Now that the Don knows where they are, and now that his injured army of warlords and bats has driven off Stanley, no reason not to send some to capture the ruins and get himself a new city for cheap.

Not like the warlords were part of the allied forces originally, so no reason for them to head to support Ansom. They did what they were sent to do, now the Don gets a city on the cheap, which will likely frustrate Jillian as the Transyvitans were one of the groups Faq was defended against by Jack.

Okay here are some more questions for you all:

1. Does the switching to Parson's colors have any relevance (as opposed to Stanley's)

2. If there are many thousands of troops missing from the walls, is it possible they will be used to do a surprise attack from out of the tunnels? Or..

3. Will Parson use Jack to hide, play with perceptions of the troops. After all he was very surprised to hear veils were possible, and loves diversions and misdirections.

4. Will we see a suddenly buffed Sizemore? He just won a rather huge battle as the primary caster and commander both, taking out multiple warlords and a large portion of Jetstone and allied marbit forces. Will he pop a level? Maybe more? What about Parson. Its his first big combat. Will his breakfast next turn come with a new level prize?

5. Does Transyvito drop out of the alliance to focus on capturing and fortifying Faq?

6. Does that lead to a crisis for Jillian who may need to go seek help from Jack and *drumroll* Stanley to liberate Faq, since you'll probably need airforces of which the Alliance seems to be out?

7. What's Charles' next gambit?

Stay tuned same Erf time, same Erf channel.

[Aquillion]

Transylvito may also simply cut out of the alliance with Jetstone, especially if they've lost significant forces and blame Jillian for their defeat.

[DevilDan]

Transylvito may also simply cut out of the alliance with Jetstone, especially if they've lost significant forces and blame Jillian for their defeat.

I don't see them blaming Jillian, not that it matters. I do see them making a move for Faq. And Transylvito's move comes first next turn. Perhaps Jillian can somehow switch sides to the coalition again and start moving towards Faq.

Transilvito could blame Ansom, on the other hand. I don't see Vinnie pulling out even if ordered to do so by Don King or Caesar though: He can disobey the order if he considers it integral to his overlord's best interests to keep after Stanley.

[datalaughing]

It always seemed odd to me that Transylvito was a member of the coalition but only sent Vinnie and his bats. Maybe Don King has a lot of money or something invested and as such didn't feel like investing a lot of troops as well. I'd almost say the Don didn't much care about the fight, but he was willing to put up a considerable chunk of change to hire Charlie to stop Stanley (of course that might have simply been so he didn't have a hostile setting up shop in his back yard).

At the moment TV and Jillian are not allied with the coalition. Jillian will want to go back (and I don't think she'd ever go to Stanley for help. She hates him a lot, according to Wanda) because she's in love with Ansom. Vinnie will want to go back because apparently Ansom is a good friend of his, but if they do go back to the coalition and not to Faq or Stanley hunting, I doubt the Don will send Caesar and the others. In fact, if he's smart, he may have Vinnie head back with Jillian while Caesar and his people track down Faq. She may be only one barbarian, but there's no reason to start a fight if you don't have to.

[Fez]

At the moment TV and Jillian are not allied with the coalition. Jillian will want to go back (and I don't think she'd ever go to Stanley for help. She hates him a lot, according to Wanda) because she's in love with Ansom.

I actually doubt she'd go to Stanley too, but Jillian is a complex critter with conflicting drives. When Ansom was at risk she was willing to let the being in love with him come to the fore. If Faq is being threatened by TV she may turn to Faq's old defenders like Wanda and Jack. She's a bit unpredictable that way.

Regardless, I have to imagine next GK turn you'll see Parson arranging a feint with some troops and actually out there leading others while swinging his new sword.

I still like the idea of Sizemore leveling up. He's clearly a lower level caster (if you look at his lack of general aptitude compared to Wanda for example), as Maggie may be too. I doubt you get much xp for linking other casters and Maggie tires easily. However, you couldn't have a better situation set up for a dirtamancer to kill lots of XP worth of enemies than in a massive, underground, fortified, tunnel complex. (If he does level, I'm also curious if there is a visual representation of that. Perhaps his clothing becomes more impressive? Better groomed? Nicer shovel? :P)

[DevilDan]

It always seemed odd to me that Transylvito was a member of the coalition but only sent Vinnie and his bats. Maybe Don King has a lot of money or something invested and as such didn't feel like investing a lot of troops as well. I'd almost say the Don didn't much care about the fight, but he was willing to put up a considerable chunk of change to hire Charlie to stop Stanley (of course that might have simply been so he didn't have a hostile setting up shop in his back yard).

Don King didn't need to send more troops because the coalition didn't need any more. (I have floated the idea that Vinny may be Transylvito's second most powerful warlord; he is powerful.)

Transylvito may not take Faq because this could put it at odds with Ansom and Jetstone.

At the moment TV and Jillian are not allied with the coalition. Jillian will want to go back (and I don't think she'd ever go to Stanley for help. She hates him a lot, according to Wanda) because she's in love with Ansom. Vinnie will want to go back because apparently Ansom is a good friend of his, but if they do go back to the coalition and not to Faq or Stanley hunting, I doubt the Don will send Caesar and the others. In fact, if he's smart, he may have Vinnie head back with Jillian while Caesar and his people track down Faq. She may be only one barbarian, but there's no reason to start a fight if you don't have to.

Jill hates Stanley because he presumably conquered Faq. She loves Ansom for his statuesque keister or some such.

[DevilDan]

I actually doubt she'd go to Stanley too, but Jillian is a complex critter with conflicting drives. When Ansom was at risk she was willing to let the being in love with him come to the fore. If Faq is being threatened by TV she may turn to Faq's old defenders like Wanda and Jack. She's a bit unpredictable that way.

I have to think that Jillian has now given up on the idea of convincing either Wanda or Jack to turn on Stanley.

Regardless, I have to imagine next GK turn you'll see Parson arranging a feint with some troops and actually out there leading others while swinging his new sword.

I don't think Parson will go into battle unless his plan falls apart or its a trap. Parson can't be eager to go into battle given his inexperience. And he does realize, I'm sure, that he's Gk's greatest asset even above the arkenhammer. (Could he send Bogroll dressed up as Lord Hamster?)

And I still think that Parson would be far better off without Stanley, especially with only a few dragons now at his command.

[Sieggy]

I don't think Parson will go into battle unless his plan falls apart or its a trap. Parson can't be eager to go into battle given his inexperience. And he does realize, I'm sure, that he's Gk's greatest asset even above the arkenhammer. (Could he send Bogroll dressed up as Lord Hamster?)

And I still think that Parson would be far better off without Stanley, especially with only a few dragons now at his command.

Given that the authors have already presented a Chechkov's pistol (Bogroll in a Parson disguise and "What would I like most? To save your life."), I suspect that Bogroll is going to die in a magnificent sacrifice that will tug at the heartstrings of all.

And I can seriously see Stanley coming in and just absolutely screwing up all of Parson's well laid plans, which results in him rebelling against Stanley (for his own good, of course . . .) and snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, deposing Stanley. Since Parson has not been popped (he's an alien, and who knows what rules govern him), he may be in a unique position to do this.

[Lamech]

On Jillian attacking the dwagons: The bats and warlords are far less likely to be able to reach the dwagons than Jillian's alliance units. Vinny only had a few more move than his bats, so the warlords are in the 20-30 range, and the bats are 22. Jillian is going to have 44+ move, so maybe she could. But what could she accomplish? She has three peeps, and a few orlies. Erm... I'm thinking she isn't going to win...

That would be funny if Sizemore leveled... I'm betting that all those Jetstone units probably just handed GK enough XP to make any kills they scored not worthwhile.

[Charlicat]

That would be funny if Sizemore leveled... I'm betting that all those Jetstone units probably just handed GK enough XP to make any kills they scored not worthwhile.

Well, we last saw Sizemore studying with a Hippiemancer in the Magic Kingdom...maybe he takes some Flower Power at the next level to make some of the Coalition not so interested in fighting anymore? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html Then Parson doesn't have to make him fight, and he gets to recover some of his soul.

[Charlicat]

Caeser and the Don may decide it's too dangerous to let the ruins sitting there for Stanley. The exchange with Jillian will be fun.

It will be interesting if TV sets Jillian up at FAQ (she's a Royal) in exchange for a "Protection" fee.

[Calmness]

I wouldn't mind seeing Parson go fight either. I mean, there's this big-ass battle going on and Parson just stays in the tower watching it all on TV, completely alienated from the conflict.

[ChowGuy]

The strip wouldn't get such a reaction if the following exchange had been shown in a previous strip:

blah blah blah

And every time we have had a Klog or some other strip with a lot of exposition, we get angry comments about "Hey! Where's the action? We want story, we want plot advancement, not talk and a lot of speculation!!1!" Wanda's ability was sufficiently telegraphed that many people were predicting such a move as it was. What do you think those same complainers would say about one more strip that merely confirmed what they "knew" already?

Now that Transylvito knows there's a ruined capital city close to them, they may seek to find it and rebuild the cities there themselves. Jillian was very paranoid about revealing that info (to the point that she didn't trust Vinnie or the Archons to relay that message for her). But now they know.

They do not know that. And in point of fact, neither do we. They, and we, mostly have only Jillian's word on that, and Caesar explicitly notes that "nobody in Transylvito believes it." What they do know though is that there is spmething there Stanley was interested in, and that Jillian has been less then forthcoming as long as Vinny has known her. They're going to want to know why on both counts.

This is just the sort of thing I mentioned above. If they go there and find ruins, everyone will complain that it did nothing to further the plot, but if they find something else it will be "Deus Ex Machina" time. If they don't go everyone will wonder why they didn't check out Chekov's City and scream "bad writing." There is no way the authors can satisfy everybody, so they'll do what satisfies themselves. It is in the final analysis their story to tell.

[Arkenputtyknife]

1. Does the switching to Parson's colors have any relevance (as opposed to Stanley's)

Good point. I'd say that if it doesn't, something's amiss in the storytelling. And if it does, it suggests that Stanley did abdicate when he left, and Parson is now the head honcho of GK. One more point for the idea that Stanley is going to end up working for Parson.

3. Will Parson use Jack to hide, play with perceptions of the troops. After all he was very surprised to hear veils were possible, and loves diversions and misdirections.

It would be strange and out of character for Parson to fail to make use of such a power once it's at his disposal.

4. Will we see a suddenly buffed Sizemore? He just won a rather huge battle as the primary caster and commander both, taking out multiple warlords and a large portion of Jetstone and allied marbit forces. Will he pop a level? Maybe more? What about Parson. Its his first big combat. Will his breakfast next turn come with a new level prize?

Since his Stupid Toys have all been to patch up the goofs made in the casting of the PLOT spell, and the patching-up is now complete, it's quite likely that we've seen the last of the toys.

5. Does Transyvito drop out of the alliance to focus on capturing and fortifying Faq?

Strictly speaking, Transylvito is not part of the alliance right now, having unallied at the end of the previous day.

6. Does that lead to a crisis for Jillian who may need to go seek help from Jack and *drumroll* Stanley to liberate Faq, since you'll probably need airforces of which the Alliance seems to be out?

Ignoring all the other problems in this idea, it should be pointed out that the only reason the Alliance is out of air force is because Jillian has them all.

7. What's Charles' next gambit?

I see no value in speculating on this.

[edit]

This is just the sort of thing I mentioned above. If they go there and find ruins, everyone will complain that it did nothing to further the plot, but if they find something else it will be "Deus Ex Machina" time. If they don't go everyone will wonder why they didn't check out Chekov's City and scream "bad writing." There is no way the authors can satisfy everybody, so they'll do what satisfies themselves. It is in the final analysis their story to tell.

Thank you, ChowGuy. I think that needed to be said.

[DevilDan]

I find it extremely hard to believe that Jillian would seek an alliance with Stanley, even if she could find him. I still think it's likelier that Ansom will make it very clear to Transylvito that they would endanger their diplomatic ties with Spacerock if they move on Faq's ruins.

Stanley abdicating: Please. For one thing, it would have meant that he wouldn't have had the authority to break through Maggie's thinkagram (interrupting Parson's goading of Ansom). I think the uncroaked troops had hamstard on their uniforms for one of three reasons: Wanda wanted it so, Parson is chief warlord, or Parson was the highest-ranking unit in GK at the time. Also, Parson would have likely noticed changes in bonuses and possibly would have noticed that he now had the authority to determine which units GK was popping (though we've seen nothing but questions on that subject).

EDIT:

Given that the authors have already presented a Chechkov's pistol (Bogroll in a Parson disguise and "What would I like most? To save your life."), I suspect that Bogroll is going to die in a magnificent sacrifice that will tug at the heartstrings of all.

Already foreshadowed when Wanda mentioned that Bogroll looked just like Parson, but pink and with depth perception? (And frankly a bit heavy-handedly when Bogroll's desire for saving Parson's life produces such a peculiar response from him; of course, Parson's reaction could also have been attributed to his disquiet about the possibility of "free will" in Erf.)

[TheJustWiseSage]

Well, we last saw Sizemore studying with a Hippiemancer in the Magic Kingdom...maybe he takes some Flower Power at the next level to make some of the Coalition not so interested in fighting anymore? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html Then Parson doesn't have to make him fight, and he gets to recover some of his soul.

That's an interesting idea, taking the Flower power.

The concept of "Flaking", could mean that make your opponent skip his turn
i.e. crumble his perception of time so that he ends his turn prematurely without doing anything.

e.g. Ansom's Turn: Issues orders. Flower Power crumbles time perceptions, thinks his orders have had time to be carried out, ends turn.

[teratorn]

Good point. I'd say that if it doesn't, something's amiss in the storytelling. And if it does, it suggests that Stanley did abdicate when he left, and Parson is now the head honcho of GK. One more point for the idea that Stanley is going to end up working for Parson.

Or the radish was Ansom's personal symbol and not Jetstone's.

But what could she accomplish? She has three peeps, and a few orlies. Erm... I'm thinking she isn't going to win...

She has a few more peeps. These were just the fastest in the bunch.

[SteveMB]

Or the radish was Ansom's personal symbol and not Jetstone's.

Ansom is his side's Chief Warlord. Parson is his side's Chief Warlord. Apparently the Chief Warlord typically designates livery.

[Angband]

They do not know that.

They believed Jillian's information enough to send 10 warlords to the choke point, even though they were skeptical. Stanley arrived, right on schedule.

Jillian also said Stanley might have a Foolamancer with him. He did.

Technically you are right -- they do not know that there really is a ruined capital there. But they have enough reason to believe that Jillian is probably telling the truth, and enough to justify a dedicated search of every potential hex in that area for those cities.

Given how cheap doombats are, why hasn't Transylvito parked a single unled bat in every single hex in the area?

And in point of fact, neither do we.

They, and we, mostly have only Jillian's word on that, and Caesar explicitly notes that "nobody in Transylvito believes it."

Jillian successfully predicting Stanley's appearance should convince a few people otherwise.

But I think the underlined statement of yours is a cool idea. Maybe Jillian is lying?

How about something crazy like this: In one of the times she was captured, Wanda has completely booped with Jillian's mind -- used spells to convince her she was Banhammer's heir when she wasn't.