Pious bard design concepts

[OverdrivePrime]

I'm working on a design for a cohort of a priest (Shadowbane Stalker) of a goddess who governs the division between life and death. The goddesses allowed domains are: Dream, Glory, Protection, Repose, Travel, Trickery. The faith has a particular mission to destroy any and all undead.

Anyway, the campaign I'm in is heavy on diplomacy and mass combat (200-400 units on the field usually), so a bard seems ideal. My cleric would like to have at least some religious training, and I'm looking around for a good bard prestige class that would be good for a very pious character. So far all I've found is the Evangelist, and it seems to sacrifice a lot for an extremely narrow field of competence.

Any better ideas out there? I'm looking at a starting cohort level of 7.

Available resources: Core + all complete ____ books, Races of Destiny, Player's Handbook II, and the Spell Compendum. The campaign is human only.

[Telonius]

Not all that much within the sources you've listed. Complete Arcane has the "Seeker of the Song" PrC. It could be re-fluffed to meet the campaign's requirements.

If Dragon Magazine were allowed, Mourner (from DR 311, p.67, according to Crystalkeep) sounds like it would fit. If Book of Exalted Deeds were allowed, it would have a few options for you (Words of Creation and Troubadour of Stars jump to mind).

[Hal]

Not a prestige class, per se, but Paladin is a great multiclass with Bard. Take Devoted Performer to clear up multiclassing issues, then at Paladin 2 you get sweet Cha synergy.

Crusader also works well, as it gives you better combat competancy and you can take a feat (don't recall the name) to activate bardic music as a swift action.

As a third option, you can do the UA Divine Bard, which should open up most cleric prestige classes (provided they don't require the ability to turn undead).

[LCR]

Brave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!

This the only thing that comes to my mind concerning bards and cohorts

[Human Paragon 3]

Try the Divine Bard.

[Glyde]

I was under the impression that Paladins had to be lawful good, and bard's couldn't be lawful. Or am I missing something here?

[hamishspence]

Devoted Performer feat from Complete Adventurer, enables you to multiclass freely between bard and paladin, even after becoming lawful, and levels stack for strength of some powers in both classes.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I was under the impression that Paladins had to be lawful good, and bard's couldn't be lawful. Or am I missing something here?

That's what Devoted Performer is for. Not surprisingly, a feat that synergizes the Bard and Paladin classes also lets you get over the alignment restriction.

OP: No Champions of Valor? It's got the Initiate of Milil feat. If you do go paladin/bard, be sure to pick up Divine Might, maybe Snowflake Wardance (works well with a longsword and Divine Might and Power Attack)...

[OverdrivePrime]

That's what Devoted Performer is for. Not surprisingly, a feat that synergizes the Bard and Paladin classes also lets you get over the alignment restriction.

OP: No Champions of Valor? It's got the Initiate of Milil feat. If you do go paladin/bard, be sure to pick up Divine Might, maybe Snowflake Wardance (works well with a longsword and Divine Might and Power Attack)...

Sadly, the DM is not a fan of the Tome of Battle, and none of us have Champions of Valor or Ruin.

The Paladin/Bard combination is sounding pretty nice, actually. Where can I find Snowflake Wardance? I've seen it tossed around from time to time, but I've never seen the source cited.

Thanks also to the guys who've suggested the Divine Bard variant. That's very interesting... I'll have to see if my DM will allow it.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Tome of Battle? I didn't mention anything from it.

Divine Might is Complete Warrior, Snowflake Wardance is Frostburn.

Initiate of Milil isn't that critical to the build - I actually forget what it does.

[Keld Denar]

Devoted Performer is a great feat. It allows Bard and Paladin to stack with respect to Bardic Music available, and Smite Progression. It does NOT grant more uses of bardic music per day though. That means if you do something like Bard4/Paladin16 (my perfered build), you only get 4 uses per day, unless you take extra music. This version gives more BAB for PAing though, and Paladin spellcasting doesn't suck as much anymore if you use Spell Compendium. Alternatively, Paladin4/Bard16 has a more bardish feel to it, yet still gets Turn Undead to use Divine Might. Finishes with 16/20 BAB, for what that's worth. This give more bardic spellcasting, which can be handy, although its dramatically delayed.

Snowflake Wardance is actually a BAD choice for a Bardadin, especially if you go with more Paladin than Bard. With only 4 uses of music per day in the first build I posted, unless you maintained 1 song throughout all combats, you'd only be able to activate SFWD in 2 combats per day, or 3 at most, since you have to be performing already in order to use it. Also, a Bardadin, especially the first build I posted, focuses on PAing, and PAing typically gets better return from 2handed weapons, and you can only SFWD with a weapon in 1 hand. Likewise, a Crystal Echoblade would have a poor damage return for its cost, given that you'd only have 4 bard levels.

A great 2nd level spell for your Bardadin on the Bard side (you get 1)would be Whirling Blade. This spell would allow the Bardadin to fire off a line effect from behind the front row of defenders that miss them, yet hit every foe in the way. Assuming that for these pitch battles, most of the combatents are relatively low level, a Divine Might + PA Whirled Blade would have a good chance of 1shotting anything in the way, which would decimate a dozen or so foes in a single shot. Not super AoE, but about the best you can get for a 2nd level spell.

[OverdrivePrime]

A couple of other posters mentioned the Crusader class, which would be awesome if TOB was allowed.

One of the other players has the Frostburn book. I'll have to check out Snowflake wardance and see if the DM goes for it. A bard x / paladin 4 is looking pretty epic, the more I think about it.

Human Bard 3 / Paladin 4

Level 1: NG Bard 1, Lingering Song (CAdv), Battle Caster (CArc)
Level 2: LG Paladin 1
Level 3: Paladin 2, Devoted Performer (CAdv)
Level 4: Paladin 3
Level 5: Paladin 4
Level 6: Bard 2, Mounted Combat (?)
Level 7: Bard 3

I'm now envisioning a mounted knight in mithril full plate, exhorting his troops to greater heights in battle. Not sure that Mounted combat (or even the heavy armor and Battle Caster feat) are necessary though. His main focus would be buffing the troops in his combat unit.

[hamishspence]

Actually, unless Devoted Performer has been errataed, it does grant uses of bardic music as if you were a full bard, smite damage as if full paladin.

What it doesn't grant is bardic music abilities, or full paladin powers-

Bard10/Pal10 would use music 20 times a day, but only special bardic music abilites up to 10th level, smite with 20+Cha extra damage, but only as many times as normal 10th level paladin, mount as 10th level, spells, paladin powers, etc.

[Hal]

Actually, unless Devoted Performer has been errataed, it does grant uses of bardic music as if you were a full bard, smite damage as if full paladin.

What it doesn't grant is bardic music abilities, or full paladin powers-

Bard10/Pal10 would use music 20 times a day, but only special bardic music abilites up to 10th level, smite with 20+Cha extra damage, but only as many times as normal 10th level paladin, mount as 10th level, spells, paladin powers, etc.

This isn't a good option because it neuters your casting from both classes. At least by going to lvl 16 with either class you can get their best spells. By capping at 10, you miss out on that, and it will hurt. The only consolation that could possibly come from this is taking the ACF for paladins that lets you trade casting for bonus feats. If you only take 4 levels of Paladin, that's one bonus feat, though you lose the ability to use wands or scrolls from any of the Paladin class spells.

One advantage to emphasizing Paladin in the build is taking Battle Blessing from Complete Champion, which makes Paladin spells a swift action to cast. If you were to go to high enough levels that the character could get 2nd or 3rd level spells, this is definitely an option to consider.

[hamishspence]

the example given was not intended as ideal build, but to illustrate how feat worked.

[Keld Denar]

Well, you don't need Mounted Combat perform atop a mount. Mounted Combat really only gives you a few perks, like being able to use your mount as cover, or making a ride check to avoid attacks to your mount. Its a prereq for Ride-By Attack -> Spirited Charge, if you want to go that route, but I'd ditch it for Melodic Casting. Also, the difference between Mithril BP and Mithril FP is only +3 AC, and definitely not worth a feat. Instead, take Song of the Heart, from the ECS. This gives you a +1 to your Inspire Courage. Much better investment. Also, take the gold you would have spent on the Mithril FP and buy a Badge of Valor from the MIC. Activate it as an immediate action 3x/day to increase the power of an ongoing IC by another +1. That means by the time you hit 8th level, you'll have an IC of (2+1+1) or +4. Cast Inspirational Boost (Brd1, SpC) for another +1, bringing the total up to +5 to hit and damage to all troops. That's a pretty sizable boost, effectively equiping everyone in your army within hearing range a +5 sword, or 50,000 gp EACH.

[Tsotha-lanti]

...

Fortunately, you never, ever want paladin past level 4 (or 5, if you want charging smite) - even "straight" paladins should PrC out after 5 (into Pious Templar, if you want a vanilla paladin). Paladin 4-5/Bard 15-16 is the way to go.

[Keld Denar]

That depends on what you want. For a more combat focused Bardadin, full BAB and the more combat oriented paladin spell list with goodies like Rhino's Rush, Knight's Move, and Righteous Fury tend to be a lot better than a Bard's more utility/save or lose drift of spells. Since you won't be as DC focused as a straigh Bard, your big save or loses like Glitterdust and Dominate Person and whatnot, won't be as effective. And while there are some decent buffs (Heroism), a number of them won't stack with IC since they are moral. Also, Bards can't quicken all their spells with Battle Blessing. That's why I like Bard4/Pal16 over Pal4/Bard16. That's my opinion though.

[Tsotha-lanti]

The half-hearted casting really isn't worth the nonexisting abilities - no feats, no useful abilities. Most paladin PrCs have some sort of casting anyway (usually a separate and much improved progression, although with a limited spell list).