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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    So, that is their line on the matter.
    Thanks for that, EvilDMMk3. It makes me feel better to know the reason, even if I think it's still a stupid reason -- not that CCF is stupid; I know that's how charities in general are obliged for various reasons to work a lot of the time, and that's stupid.

    I did wonder when I saw that news post, and read about it elsewhere, why there was nothing actually quoting CCF on the matter -- everyone just seemed to see "Christian" and "didn't accept money from D&D/RPGing con" and assume that moral panic was the reason. I wonder if there's any way to get their response put up on the various sites (including this one) that have reported on this?
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Here's the letter I'm sending off. I changed it after I read the reason that was stated to be why they rejected the money.

    I’m surprised at your organization’s decision to turn down the money donated by GenCon. As one of the people who made a donation towards that money, I am saddened by your decision. It was never the understanding by myself or anybody I know that attended the convention that your organization had endorsed GenCon. My understanding is that the donation was basically supposed to be a ‘In Memory Of Gary Gygax’ donation to your charity as your charity was one of his favorites.

    It is not like GenCon is Crack Dealers Anonymous or some other sketchy organization that a charity might be afraid to have any association with. Like the good Christians you purport to be, why could you not simply accept the gift in the spirit it was given? We’re talking about starving children here.

    I am VERY very disappointed in your organization and will seek to make sure any future donations of mine avoid your coffers.
    Last edited by Codo; 2008-10-31 at 08:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Hm.
    Now it sounds like a combo of "we have to jump through lots of legal hoops and stuff with donations" and "we don't do lots of endorsements, which this would have appeared to be; it was nothing specific with the con or Gygax or anything". But then, I may be wrong. I have the feeling that, one way or another, it wasn't really in the hands of the people who "made the call", as it were.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    My 2 coppers, sent already via email


    Greetings ladies and gentleman of the Christian Children's Fund,

    I recently read an article regarding the fact that you declined a rather substantial donation from GenCon because they raised some of the funds by sales of products from the Wizard's of the Cost line 'Dungeons & Dragons'. I could go into a tirade about the abject foolishness of this sort of blind hate fueled thinking, but rather than do that. I feel I should point out a few observations to you about D&D players, Christianity, and hypocrisy.

    - I am aware of the 'scare articles' that were put out in the 1970s and 1980s regarding D&D. Not one of them has one fact about the game, it's players, or the culture around it correct. But I doubt fact checking is in your agenda, as it usually gets in the way of the sort of blind hatred you like to show towards those you want to hate. Everyone needs an arch nemesis I suppose, and D&D players (who are much less likely to worship devils or demons than they are to worship comic books and junk food) will fit your requirements.

    - As far as I have been taught, I understood it that Christians were supposed to be kind, understanding, and nonjudgmental, (I.E. What Would Jesus Do; Judge not lest ye be judged; Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; etc.) Don't you think, when you say you worship the Son of God, a being who had nothing but love in his heart for all men, that you give a mixed message by declining money from D&D players to feed hungry children because you dislike what they are and what they do?

    - Money itself is an object that simply exists. It passes often through multiple hands. At some point, those hands might just happen to be drug lords, murderers, rapists, thieves, and many other sorts of miscreants. So if you have issue with where the money came from, aren't all donations potentially tainted? Claiming ignorance of where the money came from does not change the fact that it has more than likely at some point been used for/by evil people. So I submit to you that any donation you receive is tainted and you are in fact hypocrites for taking it. Since intent doesn't matter in your eyes obviously, I would assume you will from this point on only be accepting money from the US Mint yes? But then again, The US has been involved in wars (where people have been kill [remember: Thou shalt not kill?] so their money is tainted too by your logic. Perhaps you should not accept any donations at all, there's a chance it may be evil money after all.

    Warmest regards,

    Tim
    Last edited by Pentegarn; 2008-10-31 at 08:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Well, this is my own letter. Possibly strong, but that is what I truly felt I had to write.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoseB
    I write this message to you to express my disgust and my repulse of your attitude, when you rejected the $17,000 raised in good faith for your charity during the latest GenCon in Indianapolis. Rejecting that money that could have helped many children in need because it was partly raised from sales of "Dungeons and Dragons" materials is, not only stupid (if you were better informed you would understand that D&D has absolutely nothing to do with "satanism" of any kind), but bordering the vile, for it prevents that money from going to people who really need it.

    Not to mention the fact that it is a slap in the face of the many people who gave with the understanding that their money would be trust into your care for you to use in good works.

    Your charity was chosen precisely because you were the preferred charity of Mr. Gary Gygax, inventor of the "Dungeons and Dragons" game, who donated to you many times in the past and passed recently. In the wake of his passing, many of us gamers, many of us "Dungeons and Dragons" gamers, donated to you. Mr. Gygax' money was not "tainted" then? Our money was not "tainted" then?

    "Dungeons and Dragons", as a game, doesn't "taint" any money. It is tantamount to saying that chess taints money.

    You have lost a lot of goodwill, and in the long term you have hurt, not you, nor your charity, but the people that you purport to be helping, the weakest members of society, the children that have nothing. We gamers will find other outlets for our charity that will take our money, and it will find its way to other deserving recipients among those who have little or no means... But they will not be those who COULD have been helped by those $17,000 that were ready for you.

    Look at those people in the face and tell them that you didn't want to take that money and use it for them. If you still have a shred of the man in you, do it.

    For your information, the $17,000 raised at GenCon were given to (and accepted by) the Fisher House Foundation, that provides housing for military families.

    Yours,

    Jose Beltran
    Voorburg
    The Netherlands
    Just my 2 eurocent!
    JoseB

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    So, that is their line on the matter.
    It's still saying "We don't want any ties to a role-playing organization whatsoever. Even if it's just them giving us money." I can see how accepting money from a particular organization or event can be considered an "endorsment" of that organization. But how does such a one-sided deal dilute the charity's image unless the organization in question is unpopular?

    The last line of that response is untrue. Rejecting a charitable donation does express an opinion on the source. It says, "We do not want to be associated with you in any way." And why should you be so picky in the source of simple money unless your opinion of the donor were negative?
    Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2008-10-31 at 09:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    Bile and anger only breed more reactionism.
    Well, I wasn't about to scream myself hoarse in front of a mirror, or anything, but I didn't see the point to sugar-coating this. I suppose you have a point.
    Anyways- the official line is that they didn't refuse the money because they are bigoted against D&D, but by implication, many of their donors are. This presumably lets them continue milking their... sadly unenlightened... donors for more cash than they would presumably otherwise raise. Perhaps regrettable, but there you are...

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    I'm sure there's a big chunk of indoctrination in their "educational programs" and "child sponsorships".
    Actually, seems they actually caught some flak a few years ago because they don't do that kind of thing.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Actually, seems they actually caught some flak a few years ago because they don't do that kind of thing.
    Hm. Poor folks seem to be getting it from both sides.
    I mean, far as I can tell, the whole not taking the donation thing was really out of their immediate hands.
    But hey, don't let that stop people sending them angry letters based on a single sentence of information.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Actually, seems they actually caught some flak a few years ago because they don't do that kind of thing.
    Or they don't do that enough for the taste of the even more Taliban-like organisations. (Seriously, how sane are people who claim starving people should be sent bibles rather than food?) Or they caved in to the "Wall Watchers" and changed their practices.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I... I am really disappointed in this organization to claim to be Christian and then turn down perfectly good money because a bunch of misunderstood geeks raised it by playing D&D; I just don't think that that is something real Christians should do. I don't think we should send a bunch of angry emails, but I will send them some snailmail, maybe you all should too.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I got the exact reply that was posted earlier. Which shows me they do not even read our letters and are simply copy pasting a response. However, I thought it would be amusing to reply anyway with this

    OK, then answer me this? How can you take donations from anything at all? Someone gives you money to feed children, asks nothing in return, and you decline it because you somehow extrapolate that there is some sort of endorsement in the deal? I do not buy that. As a person who considers themselves a thinker, I feel there are far too many holes in this particular argument. You can claim it was to keep from appearing to endorse a convention, but who are you really trying to convince of this? It sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourselves into this because you want to hide from a reputation you earned from judging without getting all the facts about something (in this case D&D gamers)


    EDIT: Wouldn't it be hilarious if I got the exact same copy/paste response to my reply?
    Last edited by Pentegarn; 2008-10-31 at 11:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Just wanted everyone to know that, as a member of the Christian Gamers Guild, I was very disgusted with the decision of the CCF. As a group, we have sent a fairly large number of email and snail mail messages to CCF, and all have received the canned response as well. I just hope that their actions haven't further tainted anyone's perception of true Christianity, the kind that isn't afraid to question "tradition" and hearsay, find the true answers, and steadfastly apply them to their life.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    As a Christian gamer, I'm disgusted by the CCF and this idioticness. Ironically enough, I canceled my monthly donations to them after two years just a month ago. They're going to receive a letter from a former client.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    This is why I have chosen 5 charities and I stick to them.
    1. Royal British Legion, for former servicemen/women, their families and the families of deceased servicemen/women
    2. Ty Havan, a local children's hospice (they get all my charity shop stuff, I also shop at said charity shop)
    3. RNLI, ie the lifeboat people.
    4. Children in Need, BBC telethon that focuses on children's causes.
    5. Comic Relief, another (bi-annual) BBC telethon that spends 50% of its money in Britain and 50% in Africa.
    I chose them because I agree with what they do and their polices are reasonable and responsible. None of them have a bad history on money wasting (in fact the "Golden Pound Principle" means that every last penny Comic Relief raises gets spent on the people it was raised for.) and none use their work as a vehicle for views besides the obvious (the RBL does push the view that veterans do not get enough help, but does not try and push unrelated religious/political views on those it helps for example.)
    Last edited by EvilDMMk3; 2008-10-31 at 12:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jay View Post
    As a group, we have sent a fairly large number of email and snail mail messages to CCF, and all have received the canned response as well.
    Any indication yet whether they read further responses to the form letter or if it's as Pentegarn suggests and you just get a second copy? I've already got a first draft in my head, but I want to know if it's worth sending, as it specifically addresses points raised their form letter.
    Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2008-10-31 at 12:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    For those of you sending letters and e-mails, I would like to make a suggestion. Please take this the right way...

    Spell check before you fire off the e-mail or print the letter. Maybe it's because I do freelance editing, but I'm seeing lots of typos in the e-mails quoted in this thread. It'll only take a moment to clean it up, and doing so makes you look more professional, intelligent, and level-headed.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    At this point in time, they already have an automatic response to any e-mail sent to them, and most likely any letter recieved, they will also send a similar response back through the mail.

    Honestly, if they don't want the money, forget them. Give it to someone else. There are always others out there who need it as well.

    Now I don't write this to be mean or anything, nor am I an American critic or hater or any such thing, but it was their choice not to accept it. That is how the world is, and honestly, I doubt their is much we can do besides send e-mails/letters and get back automatic responses anyway.

    That is my point of view on the matter, and I hope Fisher House Foundation put that money to good use.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zherog View Post
    Spell check before you fire off the e-mail or print the letter.
    +1, even though (or in fact partly because) I am one of those why made an error. I have real difficulties with words as it is but I should have run it by a spell checker. I doubt they are paying huge amounts of attention to it but an avalanche of badly spelled and error laden e-mails is not going to make them realize they have offended a large number of intelligent, articulate people now is it?
    It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Yep, yours is one of the ones where I spotted errors. Your last sentence is exactly why I bring up the point. Typos happen, but a flurry of misspelled and poorly written letters will just undermine the hobby in general, and act as "proof" against the claims that gamers are intelligent and thoughtful people.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    For all those who are taking their reply seriously, another bit to consider. Putting their name and logo on credit cards is fine... just not gaming conventions.

    I know I'm continuing with my letters.
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-31 at 01:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Seriously, I cannot for my life understand why D&D should be satanic. There are demons? Well, duh. You are supposed to kill them, right? Arcane magic? I don't see the problem. It's a fantasy game. Is fantasy evil? If you think so, then imagination should be evil, right? And therefore, free thought is evil. To all those people who have nothing better to do than to blame an innocent fantasy game for suicides and wathever: get a life. And don't let your witch-hunts prevent people in need from getting help.
    Last edited by Athaniar; 2008-10-31 at 01:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xavius View Post
    And therefore, free thought is evil.
    Disturbing thing is this is an article of faith (based on the fact that it was choosing the apple of knowledge and shunning god's protection that allowed evil to enter the world) among a few small Christian sects.

    We Christians are a strange lot...
    It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I sent my e-mail before that thread was created. It was along the line of them being more evil than DnD could ever be (but I stayed polite, of course).

    Don't get me wrong, but the reason you've quoted seems to me to be "we didn't want to be involved with a gaming convention. Don't take that as a sign we have something against gamers, though!"

    So, yeah, no change as far as I am concerned. I too think that their main reason probably isn't their own opinion of DnD but the opinion of some big donators (or the opinion they think the big donators would have) if they accepted.

    I'm hoping this will make some noise, though. I want them to feel that offending their right-wing donators would have been nothing in comparison. I hope they lose many donators over that, and that other charities will get that money.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    1. Royal British Legion, for former servicemen/women, their families and the families of deceased servicemen/women
    2. Ty Havan, a local children's hospice (they get all my charity shop stuff, I also shop at said charity shop)
    3. RNLI, ie the lifeboat people.
    4. Children in Need, BBC telethon that focuses on children's causes.
    5. Comic Relief, another (bi-annual) BBC telethon that spends 50% of its money in Britain and 50% in Africa.
    Yay for good British causes!*

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Personally, I'm not sending a letter or e-mail to those people. Instead, I'm e-mailing family members and friends, and letting them know that this charity doesn't want to accept money from their dirty game infected hearts and pocketbooks.

    My family being chock full of gamers.

    There are a lot of gamers. It stands to reason that many of them donate money to those people. Not anymore. Not only was their action an slap in the face to gamers around the world, but an insult to the memory of the man who started it all, Gary Gygax.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    EvilDMMk3's Avatar

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Project_Mayhem View Post
    *Although I've never heard of the welsh sounding one
    Not surprised, it is a local charity.
    It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjaldbakka View Post
    Personally, I'm not sending a letter or e-mail to those people. Instead, I'm e-mailing family members and friends, and letting them know that this charity doesn't want to accept money from their dirty game infected hearts and pocketbooks.
    Indeed. This who I have been e-mailing, or calling, about this. There are plenty of worthwhile charities out there that won't feel their image is tarnished by taking our money. Someone already mentioned World Vision. I'll also mention UMCOR. I'd advise including in any letters to UCC a mention that you will be donating through other charitable organizations.
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-31 at 02:15 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Any indication yet whether they read further responses to the form letter or if it's as Pentegarn suggests and you just get a second copy? I've already got a first draft in my head, but I want to know if it's worth sending, as it specifically addresses points raised their form letter.
    As far as I've heard, no one has received a response other than the canned form letter/email. Not saying they haven't, but that's what I've heard to this point in time. Very disappointing.

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