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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Because there are no other charities in the world and now we're just going to have to throw all that money away. Yup. No other possible way to get that money to the children. Oh well.
    Well, maybe no other way to get the money to the children specifically being aided by the CCF. It's not like every impoverished children's charity reaches every single impoverished child and simply splits the load.

    Not that there's anything practical we can do about that. Just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koshiro View Post
    Btw, did it ever occur to anybody that furiously denouncing Gary Gygax' favorite charity may not exactly be the best way to honor the memory of Gary Gygax?
    Of course, depending on what happened, there's always the possibility that if Gygax were still alive, it might no longer be his favorite charity. Just because Gygax thought highly of this charity in his life doesn't mean it was as good an organization as he thought it was.

    In any case, many people have taken this as an insult to Gygax. That it was from his favorite charity only makes the idea all the more abhorrent. Of course they're gonna denounce it now.

    I think I'm going to wait and see if we can get more specific reasoning from the CCF before forming an opinion. They've only given us the reasoning of some vague, unnamed criteria that GenCon allegedly failed to meet. They've been dodging a full explanation so far. Not that this is a bad thing. It takes time to generate an official response on an organizational level. They probably need Ms. Goddard to approve of any specific details for release, and we have no idea where she is and if she is in a position to handle this yet.

    So I'm just gonna wait 'n' see.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    2) CCF is totally within its rights to decide what events they feel they can officially sponsor. This incurs no moral or logical sanction. It would be nice if the CCF would state what the reason was, but that they haven't yet done that is not reason to assume what it was.
    Incorrect, if only due to a flawed premise.

    Dictionary.com, definition of sponsor:
    1. a person who vouches or is responsible for a person or thing.
    2. a person, firm, organization, etc., that finances and buys the time to broadcast a radio or television program so as to advertise a product, a political party, etc.
    3. a person who makes a pledge or promise on behalf of another.
    4. a person who answers for an infant at baptism, making the required professions and assuming responsibility for the child's religious upbringing; godfather or godmother.
    CCF is neither vouching for, nor responsible for Gen Con. This usage is generally used with, say, when you sponsor a child with Big Brother/Big Sister, or something of that sort. 1. is out.
    2. They're not financing and buying time to broadcast a message. That's out.
    3. They're making no pledges or promises on behalf of another.
    4. And this has no bearing on godparents.

    No, when sponsor is used, they are not sponsoring. They are BEING sponsored. Gencon offered to make a pledge, on behalf of the CCF. A pledge to donate money. Gen Con saw the aims of the organization, and, out of respect for Gary Gygax, and the CCF, offered to pledge a donation, and sponsor the organization's goals. Gen Con offered to further the CCF's mission.

    And the CCF refused to allow Gen Con to do that.

    Make no mistake, saying "Charity Sponsor" is misleading. It's actually "charity sponsored", except that, in ADDITION to receiving a donation of money, they also receive a donation of time, and of advertisement. Gen Con not only tried to give this organization money, but also tried to spread the word that the CCF was a good cause.

    And the CCF told Gen Con that they could not do it. Because they were so afraid of their name being tarnished, that they were willing to turn aside aid to protect their name. They were willing to sacrifice their mission, their professed fundamental driving goal, in order to seperate themselves from ideologies they did not agree with... Even when those ideologies pretty much said, "yeah, we have our differences, but you are doing something noble and worthy, and we want to help you accomplish that. because, you know, some things are more important."

    Evidently, there is nothing more important than the CCF's seperationist attitude, and desire to wash their hands of anyone they don't agree with.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Do you actually know for certain that's why this occured?

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Because they were so afraid of their name being tarnished, that they were willing to turn aside aid to protect their name. They were willing to sacrifice their mission, their professed fundamental driving goal, in order to seperate themselves from ideologies they did not agree with...
    Except even the sole original source saying they pulled out because of D&D didn't say they quit because they "disagreed" with D&D. That's a conclusion a lot of people jumped to, it seems.

    Also, for the record, the word they used in their form letter response were "endorse", not "sponsor", meaning they choose not to "endorse" it. Not sure if this makes a big difference, but if we're going to get semantic, I feel I should point that out.
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2008-11-03 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I'd really hate to burst collective bubbles here, but...

    ...you're not going to change anything.

    I once believed that nature of a man can be changed*, but that was before I got broken into pieces. Now I see things as they are. The smart thing to do, instead of sending letters that will end up in someone's Recycle Bin and instill more anger in all of you who chose to put effort into battling a lost cause [i.e., changing fundamentalist's views], is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The only plan I see here is to simply withdraw support and funnel it to other charities. I realize that's hard to do for anyone not financially capable of supporting in the first place, but the fact is, all the angry emails in the world are unlikely to produce results other than catharsis for the writer. Well, it might get whoever made this decision fired, but that's probably about it. The money has already been donated elsewhere, so the horse has left the barn.
    If someone doesn't want your money, shrug, turn and leave him/her to their own. Don't waste your strength or nerves. There are literally millions of charities out there, and most of them are more open-minded.


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    Last edited by Milanius; 2008-11-03 at 01:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Sponsor was used by the Gen Con.

    They informed the CCF they would like to make them the Charity sponsor, the sponsored charity of the event.

    As for the "we have a lot of respect..." etc etc.

    It is very easy to send such a letter in the form of private correspondence. When they rejected $17,000, there's gotta be a good reason. I mean, that's not a trivial amount.

    And yet, all we've seen for an explanation is that it was against "policy". A vague, non-answer. It doesn't explain what policy. Why. It seems like an organization which is having its actions questioned vehemently, that was in possession of a good reason, would be forthright and present such.

    I mean, if there was insufficient time to process the request, that's an easy enough answer that they could have gave, rather than being a random guess from a random person on a random website.

    Heck, even if they said, "we're sorry, but accepting this donation would cause numerous christian donors to back out, due to the somewhat controversial nature of your game in those circles. As such, we cannot allow that stigma to reflect ill upon us. We respect your game, your views, and, for the record, we have no problem with it. However, supporting your event would have alienated us from many donations that would help children. We wish you good luck in your efforts, but we have our own battles to fight."

    That would have been fine. It has a ring of truth to it.

    But this "unspecified policies" as an answer? Explanations that don't EXPLAIN anything sound suspiciously like a load of horse manure. At least, in my circles, they do.

    And if someone's trying to shovel that my way, it raises the question... what are they trying to hide, that they'd send this poo in its place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Except even the sole original source saying they pulled out because of D&D didn't say they quit because they "disagreed" with D&D. That's a conclusion a lot of people jumped to, it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Original Source
    Unfortunately, when they found out that the money they would get came partially from sales of Dungeons and Dragons they decided not to be the sponsored charity.
    Nuff said.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-11-03 at 01:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    It is very easy to send such a letter in the form of private correspondence. When they rejected $17,000, there's gotta be a good reason. I mean, that's not a trivial amount.
    As has been stated and shown, THIS WAS BEFORE THE MONEY WAS RAISED. They were not rejecting $17,000 because there was no $17,000 at the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth
    Except even the sole original source saying they pulled out because of D&D didn't say they quit because they "disagreed" with D&D. That's a conclusion a lot of people jumped to, it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Original Source
    Unfortunately, when they found out that the money they would get came partially from sales of Dungeons and Dragons they decided not to be the sponsored charity.
    Nuff said.
    Why do our forums not give automatic quote trees? Sure, quote trees can get annoying when overused, but it's annoying to have to manually put quotes from your message into mine, especially because without said quotes it doesn't make sense, and I'm just responding to "Nuff said."

    Also, how does the quote invalidate what I said? I said that quote did not say it was because they thought D&D was dangerous or anything, it just says it was because of D&D (and that is assuming said source is accurate and didn't misunderstand anything). That could have a lot more to do with worrying about losing potential donors than actually disliking D&D itself. It looks like the big thing wasn't the receiving of the money, it was the public endorsement/sponsorship/whatever-the-word-is of the event.

    I'm not sure I really managed to explain that well, but the point is at no point does even that quote (which is apparently the only source for their supposed rejection due to the D&D connection) state that it was because they disliked D&D.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Of course, that original source is possibly biased.
    Oh, offhand, has anyone considered that the bulk of these emails have been sent over the weekend? I'm amazed they had the staffing to make up two different form letters; they may still be working on a more detailed explanation.

    You know what I'm starting to see here? The flip side of what everyone is accusing this organization of. Just because they have "Christian" in the name, you all assume that the only motivating factor for this incident was the sale of D&D, because after all, these people must think it's "Satan's Game". No other possible explanation. Let's bash them and stuff, dudes!

    Incidentally, I don't know if this question ever got answered:
    Is D&D (or rather, D&D, D20 Modern, Star Wars RPG, Pathfinder, and directly related/derivative products) the only game sold/talked about/played officially at Gen Con? Or are there other products (like, say...FATAL) that may have more directly objectionable content that they did not wish to be associated with? Or is this, in fact, merely a combination of miscommunication, and specific/complicated rules on endorsements, sponsorships, nature of gifts, etc. ?


    Edit: to reinforce what Seth is saying: THERE WAS NO SPECIFIC AMOUNT RAISED AT THE TIME THEY MADE THIS DECISION.
    Last edited by KnightDisciple; 2008-11-03 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Reinforcing what LS said.

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    furious Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Yeah. It's a Christian charity.

    To be honest. I am a Christian, and I see very little of what's wrong in Dungeons and Dragons. Sure, there is the worshiping of other deities, but stuff like that I just leave out when I'm playing with my friends. They understand as well. And as for worshiping demons and such... People who accuse DnD players of that are completly wrong. You are the GOOD GUYS in DnD (at least, most of the time unless you do "evil" campaigns). You are trying to DESTROY them!

    And another thing is, I remember when Harry Potter was getting criticized. Once people realize it's not that bad, they accept it. Every once in a while I see a Harry Potter book in one of the pews at my church, or somebody reading a Harry Potter book.

    Pokemon too was criticized. Not anymore.

    One of the main reasons due to this criticisim is "There is magic in it! And magic is bad! Magic is sorcery! Sorcery is devil worshiping!". No... Incorrect. What about the so called "Magical World of Disney"?! I see no relations whatsoever between Disney and devil worshiping! Unless Mickey Mouse is really the Anti-Christ.

    And magic is not always "sorcery". Magic can be like a science. If you have ever read the latest book of Artemis Fowl, it would more sense on what I'm getting at right here.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Incorrect, if only due to a flawed premise.

    Dictionary.com, definition of sponsor:

    CCF is neither vouching for, nor responsible for Gen Con. This usage is generally used with, say, when you sponsor a child with Big Brother/Big Sister, or something of that sort. 1. is out.
    2. They're not financing and buying time to broadcast a message. That's out.
    3. They're making no pledges or promises on behalf of another.
    4. And this has no bearing on godparents.

    No, when sponsor is used, they are not sponsoring.
    You are focussing on the wrong word. Sponsor is not the big issue; OFFICIAL is. They would have been the official charity of GenCon and listed in the brochures, materials, and advertisments as such. That is them giving official "status" to their association with Gen Con. They didn't feel that they could do that. They have not said what that reason is yet, but they don't have to (and some charities do not give out that criteria for any reason). You cannot assume that it was because they didn't want to be associated with D&D, since you haven't a clue.

    And the CCF told Gen Con that they could not do it. Because they were so afraid of their name being tarnished, that they were willing to turn aside aid to protect their name. They were willing to sacrifice their mission, their professed fundamental driving goal, in order to seperate themselves from ideologies they did not agree with... Even when those ideologies pretty much said, "yeah, we have our differences, but you are doing something noble and worthy, and we want to help you accomplish that. because, you know, some things are more important."

    Evidently, there is nothing more important than the CCF's seperationist attitude, and desire to wash their hands of anyone they don't agree with.
    There is no evidence that the CCF was not going to take the donation. They didn't want to be listed as the official charity of Gen Con. Right now, based on that, I'm more upset with Gen Con getting pissed off because the CCF has rules that didn't allow Gen Con to broadcast their "nobleness" than the CCF for following their own rules.

    And, again, you have no clue what their reasons were. You have no reason to claim that the original comment that linked it directly to D&D is anything other than an interpretation of the participants.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Exclamation Christian Children's Fund/ Gencon Issue Mischaracterized

    Sent them an email, and got this back. Rich's assumptions appear to be wrong:

    Thank you for writing to Anne Goddard and sharing your concerns. Anne was traveling when she received your email. We discussed your concern and she asked that I respond on her behalf. Please know that we take your email very seriously.

    There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited.

    We realize this has become a topic of discussion in the gaming community and we hope you will help us by sharing this response.

    The needs of children are great and we welcome your support. Should you wish to learn more we invite you to visit our website at www.christianchildrensfund.org.

    Again, I thank you for taking the time to voice your concern. Your passion for gaming and your support for children are admirable.


    Sincerely,

    Cheri Dahl
    Vice President,
    International Communications and Fundraising

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    Default Re: Christian Children's Fund/ Gencon Issue Mischaracterized

    Someone else got this form letter, too. Looks like they've adapted to the flood of angry DnD types.

    Also, what's wrong with the stickied thread, people? C'mon!
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    Default Re: Christian Children's Fund/ Gencon Issue Mischaracterized

    It could be a load of crap . It didn't discuss the reasons why they rejected it. Maybe, I'm not sure. I would like to think that People like them are overall good, so I'll lgive them the benefit of the doubt
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    Default Re: Christian Children's Fund/ Gencon Issue Mischaracterized

    There are indeed agendas on more than one side here.

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    Default Re: Christian Children's Fund/ Gencon Issue Mischaracterized

    Form letter. Read the sticky, countless times you get that mail.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I just received a response to my email. I'm surprised - I figured it would be ignored...

    Dear Concerned Gamer:

    Thank you for writing to Anne Goddard and sharing your concerns. Anne was traveling when she received your email. We discussed your concern and she asked that I respond on her behalf Please know that we take your email very seriously.

    There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited.

    We realize this has become a topic of discussion in the gaming community and we hope you will help us by sharing this response.

    The needs of children are great and we welcome your support. Should you wish to learn more we invite you to visit our website at www.christianchildrensfund.org.

    Again, I thank you for taking the time to voice your concern. Your passion for gaming and your support for children are admirable.


    Sincerely,
    Cheri Dahl
    Vice President,
    International Communications and Fundraising

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I got the same thing. It's a form response. Good that they responded and it sounds like there may be a different issue here, but hard to say. I guess we need to remember that there are two sides to every story.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    The issue appears to be moot now. CCF did what they had to do and I don't fault them for it. According to them, it had nothing to do with DnD and I believe them. At least they know not to deny donations because of DnD in the future .

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Two things:
    I'm confused on the (mis?)information here. Did the charity or did it not reject the money? Did they only reject being the official charity of the convention? Did they not reject anything, but simply not receive proper, legally required (?) notification? Wait, was this before the convention? When they turned down an offer they were never notified about? Via ESP? When I see all that conflicting information, I'm tempted to dump it all and say the charity really did turn down $17k. Maybe they didn't know the amount beforehand, but who friggin' cares. Can we get some straight information on exactly what happened?

    I agree writing to them will do jack squat. You give to another charity. Period. I know people have a strong desire to make others believe what they do, but drop it. Nobody's paying attention, and it doesn't matter that they're not paying attention. Just forget them and put your money elsewhere; don't get all pent up with hard feelings.

    Okay, now second I'm curious what makes a charity good, and in particular what makes the charities Rich mentioned good? Is it % of donations that go to the needy? Or what is it? I'm asking because I'm looking for places to give to. As a reminder Rich recommended Plan Usa and Gen Con gave to Fisherhouse. If you want to bring up another name, all the better.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2008-11-03 at 09:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Has anybody checked this out? http://regansravings.blogspot.com/20...rens-fund.html

    I guess this blogger got a reply before the form letter started being sent. Basically, it looks like Live Game Auctions made a mistake in the promotional materials (namely, that the Christian Children's Fund might have appeared not just as the beneficiary of the auction, but as a co-organizer), and because of that, the organization had to decline the money.

    ...yeah, I would have taken the cash anyway, too, but then I'm not a multi-national charitable organization with legal, ethical, and other concerns. So my opinion is a little moot! Personally, I think they did what they thought was the best course of action in the long run. After all, NOBODY, especially a non-profit organization, would ever turn away that much money without serious reason.

    They weren't just doing it to insult you.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    So they're saying they'd accept the money just as long as they're not shown as being supporters of the donors? That seems just as bad or worse to me.
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    So they're saying they'd accept the money just as long as they're not shown as being supporters of the donors? That seems just as bad or worse to me.
    I might be wrong, but the idea I got from it was that, because people knew the money was going to CCF, but CCF was not told beforehand, they can't take the money.

    If people had acquired all these donations, and then said "hey, lets give it to CCF," then, from what I can see, that would've worked better?
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    So they're saying they'd accept the money just as long as they're not shown as being supporters of the donors? That seems just as bad or worse to me.
    It seems plenty of charities have restrictions on what kind of events they'll sponsor, though, with some not sponsoring anything unless they organized it. It's not like it's something unique to CCF.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    I just have to say one thing....it really is moves like that which give Christianity a bad reputation.

    Now, CCF reserves the right to make choices that they feel suit their better interests. That's fine. God bless.

    But really, turning down charity money based on unfettered bias?

    SHOW me the Necronomicon excerpt in the 4th Ed. Rules book. SHOW me the upside-down cross on the hand-drawn maps of tabletop gamers.

    Hell, show me where us gamers keep our virgins to sacrifice to the Fallen One.

    I am serious. How in God's name (Literally) did Dungeons and Dragons become pigeonholed into the "Satanic File"? This is Westboro Baptist Church b.s. on a sideways level.

    Shockingly enough, I find myself relatively glad I never donated to CCF, now.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodOnlySpills View Post
    I just have to say one thing....it really is moves like that which give Christianity a bad reputation.

    Now, CCF reserves the right to make choices that they feel suit their better interests. That's fine. God bless.

    But really, turning down charity money based on unfettered bias?

    SHOW me the Necronomicon excerpt in the 4th Ed. Rules book. SHOW me the upside-down cross on the hand-drawn maps of tabletop gamers.

    Hell, show me where us gamers keep our virgins to sacrifice to the Fallen One.

    I am serious. How in God's name (Literally) did Dungeons and Dragons become pigeonholed into the "Satanic File"? This is Westboro Baptist Church b.s. on a sideways level.

    Shockingly enough, I find myself relatively glad I never donated to CCF, now.

    Have you not read the pages previous, where we've been stating that this whole thing may have nothing to do with "D&D is evil", and everything to do with a miscommunication on protocol and such? That CCF may have been more than willing to take the donation from GenCon, they just needed to re-arrange details? If anything, at this point, it sounds like GenCon may have gotten flustered and just decided to switch charities.
    I mean, seriously people, at this point, you're engaging in the same assumptionary, volatile rhetoric you're accusing these people of!

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    As has been stated and shown, THIS WAS BEFORE THE MONEY WAS RAISED. They were not rejecting $17,000 because there was no $17,000 at the time!
    Oh please, now you're stretching. You really think that anyone had any illusions that a CONVENTION was gonna raise $17.23, and some bubble gum? No, when you're dealing with fund-raising, and conventions, there is every expectation of multiple thousands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Also, how does the quote invalidate what I said? I said that quote did not say it was because they thought D&D was dangerous or anything, it just says it was because of D&D (and that is assuming said source is accurate and didn't misunderstand anything). That could have a lot more to do with worrying about losing potential donors than actually disliking D&D itself. It looks like the big thing wasn't the receiving of the money, it was the public endorsement/sponsorship/whatever-the-word-is of the event.

    I'm not sure I really managed to explain that well, but the point is at no point does even that quote (which is apparently the only source for their supposed rejection due to the D&D connection) state that it was because they disliked D&D.
    No. Only that D&D was such a point of contention that they turned down a fund-raising event from a major annual event with thousands in attendance. And before you dispute the original source, remember, you brought it up as the most accurate source of information. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Here are the FACTS.
    An organization (Gen Con) approached the CCF with an offer to donate money to assist the CCF with their primary mission.

    According to the most direct source we have at our disposal, the CCF was initially happy with the arrangement.

    According to CCF's home page, their primary mission is providing care to children in underdeveloped countries.

    According to the most direct account we have available, the decision to refuse sponsorship and the donation was made at the time the CCF discovered that a portion of the proceeds came from the sale of D&D items.

    CCF did, in fact, refuse the sponsorship deal, and thus, the money that came with it, that would have been an asset in helping the group accomplish its primary mission, by both the response letter furnished to numerous posters here, myself included, and by the most direct source concerning Gen Con.
    Now, based on those FACTS, not opinions, not assumptions, not "maybe there was a misunderstanding"... Based on those FACTS, and only on those FACTS... Do you think it a reasonable assumption that CCF would have an objection to the sale of D&D materials, if that was the single most likely reason for the refusal of an asset which would benefit their primary mission?

    Which, based on the facts, and Occam's razor, it is the most likely reason.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    So, wait.

    This all happened 3 months ago, right? And the CCF didn't turn down the cash, but politely and quietly said, "No thank you" before the fact? And there was a very successful charity auction anyway, that generated a lot of money, which was donated to another charity?



    ...WHY IS EVERYBODY GETTING ANGRY OVER THIS!?
    Last edited by TheGreatMrChibi; 2008-11-04 at 02:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Oh please, now you're stretching. You really think that anyone had any illusions that a CONVENTION was gonna raise $17.23, and some bubble gum? No, when you're dealing with fund-raising, and conventions, there is every expectation of multiple thousands.
    No. Only that D&D was such a point of contention that they turned down a fund-raising event from a major annual event with thousands in attendance. And before you dispute the original source, remember, you brought it up as the most accurate source of information. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Here are the FACTS.

    Now, based on those FACTS, not opinions, not assumptions, not "maybe there was a misunderstanding"... Based on those FACTS, and only on those FACTS... Do you think it a reasonable assumption that CCF would have an objection to the sale of D&D materials, if that was the single most likely reason for the refusal of an asset which would benefit their primary mission?

    Which, based on the facts, and Occam's razor, it is the most likely reason.
    You're forgetting this following fact:
    "There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited."

    In other words, it's not an issue of how the money is raised, it's how the name is used. Oh, and this source is just as valid as the "it's because of D&D"; it's just the other side of the coin. Isn't that what solid argumentation is built on? Hearing both sides of a situation?

    TheGreatMrChibi: People are getting angry because they want to.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Which, based on the facts, and Occam's razor, it is the most likely reason.
    People keep forgetting that "There is not enough information available to draw a conclusion" is also a possible answer.

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    Default Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!

    Quote Originally Posted by CCF
    However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements.
    In other words, it's not an issue of how the money is raised, it's how the name is used. Oh, and this source is just as valid as the "it's because of D&D"; it's just the other side of the coin. Isn't that what solid argumentation is built on? Hearing both sides of a situation?
    Here is the most relevant line from their message, outlining WHY they refused to be sponsored.

    "Our policies" - which ones?
    "have specific criteria" - that are, as yet, unspecified.

    Their reason for turning down a major charity cause is so vague, it is almost useless. They don't outline the real reason for the cause, instead playing the minimum wage register attendant, saying, "sorry, no control, it's policy".

    Except that this is now not a gas-station attendant. This is a PR representative. A policy is only as good as the reason behind it, and we've gotten no reason behind it. Only that whatever enacted this policy, according to an as-yet undisputed source (in that CCF has not refuted this point), did so when it became known that D&D was involved.

    As I told them. When policy interferes with your primary mission and vision, it's time to rethink policy.

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