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Thread: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
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2008-12-02, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Please let me know if you may have a problem sending orders in due to being away or bad connection (though if you can't connect, I can understand that it might be difficult to let me know).
It's always a good habit to send in preliminary orders as soon as possible, then updated ones later, just to ensure you have something in.
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2008-12-02, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-03, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Russia can't hold Smyrna any ways. It seems either to be a move directed at moving that fleet of Turkey's out of the Aegean or misdirecting a supply chain in the north of Turkey. Goodness knows that you could do wonders with that little y shaped deal they've got going.
You don't want the monster? You don't throw the switch.
Awesome Avatar by Starwoof
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2008-12-03, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-03, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Olympia, near Seattle, US
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2008-12-03, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- London, UK
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2008-12-05, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Fall 1903 Results (Revised):
Turkey:
Ank S Aeg - Smy: Void;
Gre S Bul H: OK
Con S Bul H: Cut by Smy;
Bul H: Dislodged by Ser 3:2;
Russia:
Smy - Con: Bounce with Con;
Rum S Ser - Bul: OK
Bla S Ser - Bul: OK
Fin - Swe: OK
Nwy S Fin - Swe: Cut by Lon; Dislodged by Lon 2:1;
Bot S Fin - Swe: OK
Italy:
Tyr - Boh: OK
MAt - Bre: Bounce with Bre;
Ven - Tri: Bounce with Tri;
Apu - Ven: Bounce with Ven;
Germany:
Den H: OK
Kie S Den H: OK
Mun - Bur: Bounce with Bur;
Ruh - Bel: OK
Hol S Ruh - Bel: OK
France:
Bel H: Dislodged by Ruh 2:1;
Bur S Bel H: Cut by Mun;
Por H: OK
Spa H: OK
Bre - MAt: Bounce with MAt;
Par - Gas: OK
England:
Lon - Nth - Nwy: OK
Nth C Lon - Nwy: OK
Ska S Lon - Nwy: OK
Swe H: Dislodged by Fin 2:1;
Austria:
Ser - Bul: OK
Bud - Ser: OK
Tri H: OK
Vie S Tri H: OK
Turkey disbands unit in Bul
Russia may retreat army in Nwy to: Fin StP
France may retreat army in Bel to: Pic
England may retreat fleet in Swe to: Bal
Note: The decision on the "Run" orders for Germany was a tough one. In the end I had to go with a strict interpretation of the rules. Part of the game is ensure that orders are clear. Doesn't mean I don't feel kind of bad about it though.
Edit: Moody convinced me. Sorry for the confusion.
Retreat Orders due: Friday, Dec 5th, 23:00
Builds due: Saturday, Dec 6th, 23:00
Spring orders due: Tuesday, Dec 9th, 23:00
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2008-12-05, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Olympia, near Seattle, US
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
***Is England abandoning all in an attempt to take Scandinavia?***
***Is Italy trying to take an undefended Warsaw? Or is he moving towards Austria?***
***Is there a Three way treaty in between Italy, England, and France?***
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2008-12-05, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Orem Utah
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
I agree the GM decision this just means that I'll not read the broad with no contacts on
Actors we are people pretending to be people
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2008-12-05, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
I feel obligated to say that I must respectfully disagree with the decision made in the case of "A Run-Bel." I believe that some measure of leniency with orders and strict adherence to the rules as published are not mutually exclusive concepts. I cite the clause in the rulebook that states "A poorly written order that can nevertheless have only one meaning must be followed." I can't think of any other meaning for "A Run-Bel" than "A Ruh-Bel."
I say this as someone who is not playing Germany, nor particularly aligned with Germany or against France.Ramm in Lords of the Elements
Russia in The World is Dark
"I do not know what weapons we will use in World War Three, but in World War Four we will use sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
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2008-12-05, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
I get where you're coming from, Moody, and that's why it was a tough decision. I thought "well, it COULD mean Rum as well." Of course, Germany is nowhere near, Rum. However, this was a very borderline case, and I decided to err on the side of rules enforcement. Perhaps I was wrong to do so.
Normally, a referee will stick to his guns on a decision, but in this case, I'll open it up to the players. In the interest of fair play, if players unanimously agree to allow the orders, I will re-do the season's moves. Note that this decision may also impact future orders. So any future orders with a single letter off, that none-the-less are "obvious" would also get the benefit of the doubt.
So what do you all say (I think we already know Moody's vote, and while Jamin has expressed agreement, he's free to change his mind)? Is Run acceptable for Ruh?
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2008-12-05, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Well, yes, we do know my vote already. But I want to clarify, here. It's not just "obvious." It really has only one possible meaning. Run is also one letter off from Mun (Munich). But Munich can't move to Belgium, and another order was given for Munich (Mun-Bur). No order was given for Ruhr, which really leaves only one conclusion - that A Run-Bel was meant to be A Ruh-Bel.
And again, to clarify, I believe that my opinion is in accordance with the published rules of the game. So I reject the implication in the statement about erring on the side of rules enforcement that my position is opposed to rules enforcement.
Here are the rules exactly as printed:
Originally Posted by The Diplomacy Rulebook, Page 3, Part 2 of section "How to Play"Ramm in Lords of the Elements
Russia in The World is Dark
"I do not know what weapons we will use in World War Three, but in World War Four we will use sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
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2008-12-05, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Okay, okay. I'm nothing if not flexible. I am convinced, and have made changes to the results accordingly. France, sorry about the confusion, but I'm allowing Germany's orders. You'll have a retreat as well as Russia and England.
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2008-12-05, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Olympia, near Seattle, US
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Retreat Orders due: Friday, Dec 5th, 23:00
Builds due: Saturday, Dec 5th, 23:00
Spring orders due: Tuesday, Dec 8th, 23:00
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2008-12-05, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
England will probably continue to play switcheroo with Russia over Sweden and Norway. However, since there is now an army in Norway and fleets in Skag and the Baltic, Sweden will probably fall to the English (again). England for now, seems to be hesitant in fighting Germany.
As for a three way treaty... I don't think that's the case. Just my mild speculation, but I think so far, England, Italy and France are all in the dark as to who is who. Germany is probably one of the newer players to the game... maybe France too. France is busy with Germany... and has to worry about that fleet in the Atlantic.
Speaking of which... and out of curiosity: Who's playing England? Or Italy?Avatar by araveugnitsuga | Play by Post (Guide) | Steam
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2008-12-05, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-06, 12:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Actors we are people pretending to be people
Thanks to Kwarkpudding for the amazing Aran Avatar
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2008-12-06, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-06, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Okay, to give France a chance to send in a retreat order (since he may not be paying much attention atm, figuring he had no retreat and no builds), I'm extending the deadline until he sends in the retreat order, or until 6pm Saturday, whichever comes first.
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2008-12-06, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-06, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- New England
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Ramm in Lords of the Elements
Russia in The World is Dark
"I do not know what weapons we will use in World War Three, but in World War Four we will use sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
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2008-12-06, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Olympia, near Seattle, US
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
I just noticed, France could fairly easily take London. Why doe England want Sweden so badly as to risk an invasion?
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2008-12-06, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Retreats:
England: Swe R Bal
Russia: Nwy R Fin
France: Bel R Bel
Russia takes Smy from Turkey.
Austria takes Bul from Turkey.
England takes Nwy from Russia.
Germany takes Bel from France.
Russia takes Swe from England.
Turkey disbands 1 unit.
Russia may build 1 unit.
Germany may build 1 unit.
France disbands 1 unit.
Austria may build 1 unit.
Adjustments due as scheduled:
Saturday, Dec 6th, 23:00
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2008-12-06, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
The army is den and the fleet in kie
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2008-12-06, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
My vast precognitive powers tell me there will be a new unit built in Bud and Ber...
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2008-12-06, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Avatar by araveugnitsuga | Play by Post (Guide) | Steam
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2008-12-06, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
the scores
In 1st place Russia with 7
2nd Germany with 6
a tie for 3rd between Austria and France at 5
5th is also tied between England and Italy at 4
7th is Turkey with 3Actors we are people pretending to be people
Thanks to Kwarkpudding for the amazing Aran Avatar
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2008-12-06, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-06, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Possibly, but my count puts the score 3-3 for an attempt on Sweden. Either Russia would have to slip up, or England would have to pull some brilliant maneuvers to take Sweden.
However, on the flip side it appears Russia has an even smaller chance of taking Nwy again.
Russia may be struggling to fight two wars at once, but the fact they are even capable of fighting two simultaneous wars could be viewed as proof of their power.
Italy may not be winning, but they are certainly doing very well. They paralyzed France with a single fleet, and might have paralyzed Austria as well with their latest move. This next year could either see Italy suddenly blossom in size, or crumble from over extension.
If we give Russia a -1 penalty for position, and a +1 position bonus to England and Italy, then our score count shows:
Russia and, Germany (tied for 1st)
England, France, Austria, and Italy (tied for 3rd)
Turkey: 7th
Turkey is, unfortunately, in the hot seat, but I see a close game for everyone else.
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2008-12-06, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Diplomacy - Subterfuge
Oh stop it ... I will not sit idly by and let you all make Italy out to be such a threat. Sure, I've got some units in dangerous places, but look at my opportunities for expansion. They're terrible. Give me credit for surviving, sure, but don't blow things out of proportion.
Ramm in Lords of the Elements
Russia in The World is Dark
"I do not know what weapons we will use in World War Three, but in World War Four we will use sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein