Erfworld 130 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 117

[ishnar]

Heh, i'm about to break some conventions here.

While there are plot reason why this or that might happen, i'm going to attack this from a storytellers perspective. Now, as a story teller, it's not a good habit to have every battle go down to the wire, but it is pretty normal for the first major climax to be down to the wire. So I'm expecting Parson's trap to fail. I'm expecting Ansom to pull something out of his but and gain a sudden unexpected advantage that will enable him to fight massive numbers of undead rather than singletons as before.

For example, since it has been foreshadowed in a sense, I can see Ansom to suddenly attune to his weapon and do his own version of Van de Graff.

Of course, it doesn't have to be that specifically. But as a storyteller, it makes more sense for the forging of Parson's soul as the ultimate warlord be under the hottest fire. And it's not hot enough yet. Whether this is a series or a stand-alone, as a storyteller, I don't forsee Parson truly turning the tide of the battle until after it affects him directly. Not indiretly, like Bogroll doing a suicide save, but directly. Such as bogroll is able to successfully save him, but the sword meant for his heart still pierces his leg.

[Ave]

Oh jeez, I just got the Sofa King comment too. (if you haven't yet, say it really fast)

Same as efdup. They have all kinds of weasel words :)

[The Old Hack]

...good God. I just realised something. These weak zombies... they are just like the Doombats and the way Vinnie describes them. Unled, they are real weak, but with a Warlord bonus, they are more like basic infantry. Having the Chief Warlord in the hex adds another bonus, making them more like advanced infantry... and if Parson himself leads a stack with his sword...

All these weenie zombies. They're not cannon fodder. They're a meat grinder. Ansom will need the Arkenpliers, and if he can't handle them all, Titans help his troops when they go past the wall and into the zombies.

[Moechi_Vill]

Ansom's best choice would be to wait out the undead.
This is expending lives for morale. Yes, morale is a factor, but sacrificing strategy to keep your group together should be avoidable with the right leadership.

Strategy largely take precedence over gutless allies.


And yes, those weak undead are slow doombats without flying, perhaps a bit weaker but it won't matter if Ansom has a lightplier... he can't handle thousands alone.

This will be a fight to the end all the way down to the dungeons or up into the tower (I've my bet on it ending in the tower).

[lug0si]

...good God. I just realised something. These weak zombies... they are just like the Doombats and the way Vinnie describes them. Unled, they are real weak, but with a Warlord bonus, they are more like basic infantry. Having the Chief Warlord in the hex adds another bonus, making them more like advanced infantry... and if Parson himself leads a stack with his sword...

All these weenie zombies. They're not cannon fodder. They're a meat grinder. Ansom will need the Arkenpliers, and if he can't handle them all, Titans help his troops when they go past the wall and into the zombies.

your right, its a similar setup!
Ansom might realize the futility of attacking the uncroaked masses alone and instead try a surprise attack on Wanda (like Welf von Ehrwal suggested). that way he could render the undead useless, have his personal revenge for uncroaking his army and also get rid of the other person Jillian is in love with. :[

[heng]

"[...] finished here!" LOL

Thanks for making a bad day a tad bit brighter for me!

...and who is receiving the archon's message?

[SteveMB]

Ansom's best choice would be to wait out the undead.
This is expending lives for morale. Yes, morale is a factor, but sacrificing strategy to keep your group together should be avoidable with the right leadership.

Strategy largely take precedence over gutless allies.

One of his allies is already making noises about walking out. Ansom is probably concerned (with reason) that he can't afford to sit and wait -- his alliance might fall apart before the uncroaked troops do.

[pendell]

Well, pclips, Erfworld has successfully re-captured my attention. I might even buy the graphic novel when it comes out, just to show support for your fine effort.

Some broad observations:

1) This seems like a 'battle of the bulge' type offensive. When you know things aren't going your way and the alliance falls apart, step up to the plate and do some last-ditch heroics to try to save the day and turn things around.

That's entirely reasonable from Ansom's point of view ,because if he doesn't show some heroism his coalition will fragment and the battle ends here.

The problem with this strategy is that it reminds me of the beginner's move in chess when a new player will send out his queen in the early game to do some pawn-grabbing. If the opponent is at all skilled, you'll lose the queen.

2) I think Parson was hoping to provoke exactly this reaction. He knows (doesn't he?) that the pliers do horrible things to undead. He told Charlie that he would be in possession of the pliers next turn.

So the deliberate placement of all that uncroaked infantry on the walls -- former Jetstone infantry at that -- was bait in a trap to draw Ansom out to fight. Ansom knows that he can go through uncroaked like a tank through a sheet of paper. And now that Ansom has obligingly thrust himself into the meatgrinder, it's time to close the trap and throw the switch.

The only question in my mind is -- what are the jaws on the trap?

Ooops ... just read the comic more closely and I see Parson didn't anticipate this. I don't understand why not. He's seen enough of Ansom to know his MO by now. When things go south, go into battle personally to turn things around. Again, using the queen to attack pawns. Any chess master can make a newb pay for that kind of mistake, and I hope Parson will do that to Ansom in the near future.

3) Parson does still have that sword....

4) This is becoming a common theme. Parson out-thinks Ansom, but Ansom still saves the day by virtue of sheer heroic awesomeness. Who needs a brain, when your muscles save the day every time?

That guy is starting to really get on my nerves. Ansom, I mean.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[paddyfool]

Am I the only one starting to feel pity for Ansom? Guy gets himself outplayed left and right, seems to be getting into a "Oh hell, I'm not going to win, may as well just get this over with" mode.

Pity, perhaps, but a further loss of respect. He should know when to cut his losses - Stanley's been driven back to his last city, most of his army are uncroaked, and he's even lost a lot of his most elite unit (dwagons). If the alliance simply pull away and defend, thousands of Stanley's forces would fall apart before they could threaten anybody; overall, he's no threat to anyone (never mind the high-maintenance warlord, which is bound to bite into the size of the army that GK can support by itself). Ansom's allies see this, and view any further attack as being a pointless waste of units at this stage. But he's let it get personal, which is one sign of a bad player in a host of different games, and he has to be taking a heck of a risk in doing what he's doing now.

Of course, I could have got it a little bit wrong and he might actually be doing something at least half-way clever (like trying to assassinate Wanda or Parson while the anti-flyer defences are down and the dwagons are away). But without lookamancy, how's he going to find them? Attack-and-retreat against every stack in the city until he lucks out?

IMO, he's letting himself get all worked up and wangsty, and deserves to get spanked.

[Rekov]

It looks like Parson's strategy of dividing the enemy might work after all. Looking at the interaction among the higher ups in Ansom's force, it seems that getting one or two of them to turn wouldn't be all that difficult. At the very least he could probably get a few of them to pack their bags and head on home.

[brob]

I'm echoing some earlier sentiments, but both Ansom and Stanley have really had moments recently where they shine. They've both seemed pretty wooden and ineffective for a lot of the strip -- but now that the boop has hit the fan, it's nice to see them as formidable. (I agree with SteveMB's point: waiting for the uncroaked troops to recroak is probably an unconstrained best strategy, but given the imminent unravelling of the RCC, this seemed like a gutsy and effective move by him.)

[WoodStock_PV]

I'm thinking about something Sizemore said in this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0114.html

But I'll quote him:

"Your plan will succeed"
"Or it will fail. By Fate, by Luck, and by Numbers"

And it made me think of a game I used to play called "Age of Wonders" which is similar to the game Parson's in right now. I once fought a bettle in thes game in multiplayer mode where I surrounded a city with all my troops and just two heroes inside (pretty high leveled), there was no chance I could fail, but I did fail, having no luck in my attack rolls.
Luck and Fate are powerful tools in Erfworld, and my guess is that this coming turn, Parson is Booped.

[Moechi_Vill]

One of his allies is already making noises about walking out. Ansom is probably concerned (with reason) that he can't afford to sit and wait -- his alliance might fall apart before the uncroaked troops do.

I truly believe, I think I know, that throwing those wavering allies into a meatgrinder will just lead to unecessary casualties.
Better to wait it out.

Parson doesn't have many other options than PsyOps and siege raids. If properly guarded he's unlikely to be able to wipe out the siege.

Ansom is making a bad decision worse by trading good allies so he can send worse allies into the meatgrinder as well. All for what is probably less than 50% chance of victory (around 40% maybe (I think its that high since Ansom has decided to risk it all and will probably manage to pull the doubters into a bloody fray), though we know Parson will win).

I'm basing my belief on the faith that most of Ansom's coalition would stay with him, seeing the insiders as little threat to continued siege.
Even if they lose all their siege they could still hold out for reinforcements and keep the enemy bottled up.

If the Coalition would fracture at losing about half its force then its the best thing to do as long as they can't semi-disband to form a security net around a slightly larger region.

Of course, such a coalition probably won't last through the ages. If it has such a weak morale it doesn't have much of a survivor's hope through the ages.
They'll fall like bricks if Parson defeats them again, if they are of such weak spirits. Heavy and dangerous when they fall, but if you got the right equipment they'll come tumbling down.

But I like the redhaired girl, if she survives I think she will be a good enemy and perhaps respectful neutral someday. The dark one might be good as well (though I'm not sure about her wisdom in going in through the tunnels again she is positive and keeps planning). The elves will probably prove resilient too.

[SteveMB]

I think Parson was hoping to provoke exactly this reaction. He knows (doesn't he?) that the pliers do horrible things to undead. He told Charlie that he would be in possession of the pliers next turn.

Actually, we don't know whether Parson knows anything specific about the Arkenpliers other than that Ansom possesses it but is not attuned to it.

So the deliberate placement of all that uncroaked infantry on the walls -- former Jetstone infantry at that -- was bait in a trap to draw Ansom out to fight. Ansom knows that he can go through uncroaked like a tank through a sheet of paper. And now that Ansom has obligingly thrust himself into the meatgrinder, it's time to close the trap and throw the switch.

The only question in my mind is -- what are the jaws on the trap?

That said, it probably doesn't matter whether Parson knows that the Arkenpliers have a special ability for attacking the uncroaked. He knows that Ansom is powerful and his uncroaked troops are weak (somewhat offset by Wanda's bonus for leading uncroaked and by their sheer numbers). The Arkenpliers' ability just accentuates that situation, it doesn't fundamentally change it.

[Moechi_Vill]

I think its quite clear that Arkentools are impressive weapons if they can be wielded, attuned or not. And I wouldn't be surprised if Ansom can OHKO these zombies without it. What I'd watch out for is multiattacks, round attacks, piercing charges, run-by-attacks, combinations thereof and the more valuable uncroaked units.

[SteveMB]

I'm basing my belief on the faith that most of Ansom's coalition would stay with him, seeing the insiders as little threat to continued siege.[/QUOTE
If the Coalition would fracture at losing about half its force then its the best thing to do as long as they can't semi-disband to form a security net around a slightly larger region.

The problem of holding the Coalition together was foreshadowed way back when Ansom admitted that maintaining it was a hardship on all involved, but would be worth it in exchange for getting rid of Stanley. The glaring contrast between his prediction of easy victory and the actual situation isn't exactly bolstering his allies' confidence.

Also note that Sofa King is the third-largest capital side (as far as number of units goes, anyway) in the Coalition. If they walk out, that could easily start a chain reaction.

[hajo]

Charlie's got A LOT of archons and perhaps several warlords all ready to jump on GK.

I think the main point is that Ansoms didn't seal another deal with Charlie, this turn.
That leaves a lot of options open to Charlie and Parson, like surprise attacks, and last-minute rescue-missions.

[DigoDragon]

Regarding the "I'm sofa-king out" remark... It's humorous, but how does a person popped in Erfword knows to make it? The pun only makes sense to an import like Parson, and perhaps especially to someone trying to work around the boop block.

You know, Parson made a similar comment about King Saline IV when he heard the name. I wonder if that isn't an insignificant detail.

[Sieggy]

I'm thinking about something Sizemore said in this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0114.html

But I'll quote him:

"Your plan will succeed"
"Or it will fail. By Fate, by Luck, and by Numbers"

And it made me think of a game I used to play called "Age of Wonders" which is similar to the game Parson's in right now. I once fought a bettle in thes game in multiplayer mode where I surrounded a city with all my troops and just two heroes inside (pretty high leveled), there was no chance I could fail, but I did fail, having no luck in my attack rolls.
Luck and Fate are powerful tools in Erfworld, and my guess is that this coming turn, Parson is Booped.

Yes, but remember that Parson had a nice, big bowl of Luckamancy Charms for breakfast that morning . . .

[Prince_Rohan]

This comic is Sofa King cool.

[RPGuru1331]

alright, something has bugged me, now that I've read through these comics.

Are there reaction turns or something? The pursuit Jillian tried to launch of Stanley and Jack, and the whole of Parson's underground plan, seems to have relied on enemy action as well as their walking into traps.. except it's not their turn. What's the deal?

[DougTheHead]

Everyone seems to be reading WAY too much into the last klog- or at least reading wrongly. Parson saying that the Coalition waiting "gives me time for all kinds of stuff" doesn't mean he's depending on it.

In fact, it seems to suggest that he doesn't know what he'll do yet if the Coalition decides to wait. So if he has a plan at all, it's a plan that's dealing with an incoming attack. I think Ansom is finally playing into Parson's hands.

Here's how I think it'll go down:

Spoiler

Show

Ansom puts up a hell of a fight on the castle walls with constant reinforcements, but eventually his allies don't want to send any more troops into what has become, as someone on this forum already said, a meat-grinder. They try to force Ansom to turn back, and when he refuses they withdraw their remaining troops, leaving him open for croaking/capturing.

[Fighteer]

alright, something has bugged me, now that I've read through these comics.

Are there reaction turns or something? The pursuit Jillian tried to launch of Stanley and Jack, and the whole of Parson's underground plan, seems to have relied on enemy action as well as their walking into traps.. except it's not their turn. What's the deal?

The overall turn-based structure of Erfworld is based around movement from hex to hex. You can only move from one hex to another when it's your side's turn. However, within a hex, units have much greater freedom and can move when it's not their turn, as long as they don't attempt to leave it.

In Stanley's case, it was his turn when he moved into the ambush hex. He fought a battle in the hex and managed to escape, since he still had move left. The Transylvito forces could not pursue because it was not their turn.

The Jetstone forces invaded the GK tunnels on Ansom's turn, but did not fight a battle since all of the GK troops were pulled back to the garrison. During GK's turn, Parson had Sizemore's forces attack into the tunnels from the garrison. All movement during that battle was either from zone to zone (Parson's troops) or within the tunnels themselves, which counts as combat movement.

In summary, there are two games in Erfworld: a strategic game played out in turns on a world map, and a tactical game played out within a hex/zone when opposing forces are in contact with one another.

[SauroGrenom]

Wow. This is a very interesting update. Lots of open questions I can't wait to see get answered...

Is Wanda waiting on the walls leading the two remaining uncroaked warlords, the stronger undead and all the wimpy undead? Will she be able to match Ansom's artifact?

Will Parson be personally involved in some of the fight? If so what's that snazy 3 in 1 ruthlessness/leadership/combat sword worth in a fight?

How many of the "heavies" that aren't undead are available for defending the walls? KISS, spidew calvalry, twolls, golems, pikers, archers, stabbers?

Has Parson used the "full day's supply of Luckamancy" he got with his box of Luckamancy Charms this morning? If not, then how's that going to come into play for this defense?

As has been said before, how many bonuses can Parson stack up on a unit stack? Kind of like how the bats in the previous fight were souped up by lots of bonuses... Can Parson stack chief warlord, leadership and Croakamancer bonuses up to make the wimpy undead into a powerful enough force to stop the invasion?

Is there any way that Wanda can counter the undead=>dust power of the pliers?


Given the choice, this reader would rather that the "last stand" be taken at the tower... I like seeing the casters fireworks.

One interesting option is that if he retreats to the dungeons, then he can pit Ansom vs Charlie, since they'll both want to capture him down their. If Ansom breaches the walls and attacks the tower, forcing a retreat to the dungeons, then Charlie will have to punch through Ansom in the tower to get to the dungeon and capture the mathemancy item...

Lots of questions and possibilities at this point... I'm interested to see what happens next.

[Dragonath]

Ansom will be slain by Webinar and Dora after he kills a lot of undead...

[RPGuru1331]

In summary, there are two games in Erfworld: a strategic game played out in turns on a world map, and a tactical game played out within a hex/zone when opposing forces are in contact with one another.

Hm, I thought it might be something like this. Looking back, the lack of distance specifics makes this make a lot of sense. Specifically, on the pursuit warlords took in the tunnels.

[Finwe]

I'm echoing some earlier sentiments, but both Ansom and Stanley have really had moments recently where they shine. They've both seemed pretty wooden and ineffective for a lot of the strip -- but now that the boop has hit the fan, it's nice to see them as formidable. (I agree with SteveMB's point: waiting for the uncroaked troops to recroak is probably an unconstrained best strategy, but given the imminent unravelling of the RCC, this seemed like a gutsy and effective move by him.)

I'm willing to bet a pretty penny that most of the coalition does not know enough about uncroaked to realize that these particular specimens will rot especially quickly.

[Mephit]

4) This is becoming a common theme. Parson out-thinks Ansom, but Ansom still saves the day by virtue of sheer heroic awesomeness. Who needs a brain, when your muscles save the day every time?

Good vs. Evil, like it has always been.

"Look at me, I have obviously out-thought you with my clever manipulations. Now, you will die!"
- "Nooooo, this isn't happening!"
*enter random attempt at something nearly impossible and succeed*
"Aaaagh, you have defeated me through sheer luck and idiotic courage that should've gotten you killed!"

[DevilDan]

...good God. I just realised something. These weak zombies... they are just like the Doombats and the way Vinnie describes them. Unled, they are real weak, but with a Warlord bonus, they are more like basic infantry. Having the Chief Warlord in the hex adds another bonus, making them more like advanced infantry... and if Parson himself leads a stack with his sword...

It would really make the most sense to have Parson be with the toughest units, in that case, like knights or other heavies. Presumably, Wanda's bonus will apply to both units in the air and to the mass-uncroaked infantry.

Parson must have some idea of what the arkenpliers artifact bonus against undead can do, seeing as Ansom used them to croak uncroaked warlords over the lake.

Parson may have preferred to have RCC forces wait a turn and use Ansom's initial plan of encircling GK; we don't know. What I do know beyond the shadow of a doubt is that he at least considered the possibility that Ansom would see the coalition weakening (or would just go doombat-boop crazy) and decide to lead the attack without waiting to encircle GK. Whatever else, this won't come as a complete surprise to Parson, who will have some plan prepared for this eventuality.

[randomnondescri]

Ansom will be slain by Webinar and Dora after he kills a lot of undead...

(assuming that this is a serious prediction and not just tossed out there randomly).

It's too soon in the comic for the major antagonist to be killed. My guess is that this scene will be where we we see Ansom become a real threat. Thus far, he's only mattered because he seems to have enough leadership skills to put together and lead an allied army... I think we'll finally see that Ansom is someone to be reckoned with in his own right, which should give a little ooph to his role as antagonist in the comic.