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Thread: Rules Questions

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Can resting heal a wound that is incurred during that rest turn? Here's what happened to us yesterday: after a successful battle, Roy decided to rest on his next turn, so that he could pick up two more loot and unflip his shticks. He was not wounded during the battle. However, while he was resting, another player moved into the room to pick up loot, and triggered a trap with the multiple target icon. Roy failed to evade, so he took a wound as indicated on the trap card. Can he heal that wound during the current rest phase? We decided that he could, since page 20 of the rules specifies that "At the start of your next turn, you are done resting...Heal 1 Wound and unflip all of your flipped shticks."

    Also, is there a penalty for evasion while resting, like there is for defense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    Concerning the "screams like a little girl" Screw This card, can you pick NPCs for assistance?
    No. The card requires the players chosen to decide whether or not to assist when there is no Loot being offered. NPC players can't really do that, because there is no one to make the decision for them. Therefore, they can't be one of the two players chosen to assist.

    As a rule of thumb, if an effect that can target a player requires any sort of decision on the part of the targeted player, then that effect can't target an NPC. Likewise, anything that moves a player, causes a player to do something with a shtick, Wounds a player, etc., cannot target an NPC, because NPC's don't do any of those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    Also, can you play it on yourself?
    If you mean when you are the battling player, yes. (The fact that you can be one of the two players offering assistance is spelled out on the card.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisjohn View Post
    Oo, can you please point me to the rules regarding reshuffling of discarded loot?
    They are not specifically spelled out, but are inferred from the "Removing Traps from the Game" heading on page 26. It will be added to the errata at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisjohn View Post
    Also, what do you do when you reach the end of the Battle cards?
    At the end of the turn during which the Battle Cards ran out, you reshuffle the discard pile. Note that this means that if you are in the middle of playing a big battle (like Xykon), every player may run out of Battle Cards before the Battle Size is reached. If that happens, then that's the end of adding cards to that battle, and the current player faces it as-is. In any case, don't reshuffle until the end of that turn.

    This will also be added to the errata at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edna View Post
    Can resting heal a wound that is incurred during that rest turn? Here's what happened to us yesterday: after a successful battle, Roy decided to rest on his next turn, so that he could pick up two more loot and unflip his shticks. He was not wounded during the battle. However, while he was resting, another player moved into the room to pick up loot, and triggered a trap with the multiple target icon. Roy failed to evade, so he took a wound as indicated on the trap card. Can he heal that wound during the current rest phase? We decided that he could, since page 20 of the rules specifies that "At the start of your next turn, you are done resting...Heal 1 Wound and unflip all of your flipped shticks."
    You played it correctly, you may heal wounds suffered while resting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edna View Post
    Also, is there a penalty for evasion while resting, like there is for defense?
    No.
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  3. Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Apologies I've not browsed the entire thread. If they've been answered already, could you link me to the post in response?

    Anyways, here's my little brace.
    1) Xykon's stack - he's at the top of it, often with a massive wedge of monsters courtesy of supports. Yet once he dies, they all run, right? So do they exist only to give him boosts to make that one final fight harder?

    2) Schtick-less combat. If you have no schticks which are applicable to a contest, can you still get assistance? Ie all your bonuses will come from the assistance of others, even though you're on +0 for the purposes of schtick? We've been playing it that as long as the character in question is on the same level as you, and there isn't anything else preventing it, you can always ask for assistance.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    1) Xykon's stack - he's at the top of it, often with a massive wedge of monsters courtesy of supports. Yet once he dies, they all run, right? So do they exist only to give him boosts to make that one final fight harder?
    Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    2) Schtick-less combat. If you have no schticks which are applicable to a contest, can you still get assistance? Ie all your bonuses will come from the assistance of others, even though you're on +0 for the purposes of schtick? We've been playing it that as long as the character in question is on the same level as you, and there isn't anything else preventing it, you can always ask for assistance.
    You can get assistance for any combat roll, whether you use a shtick or not. Just remember that the best result you can achieve when fighting without shticks is a draw...

    Enaloindir


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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaloindir View Post
    You can get assistance for any combat roll, whether you use a shtick or not. Just remember that the best result you can achieve when fighting without shticks is a draw...

    Enaloindir
    Where does it say that? We've always taken it that win is a win.

  6. Top - End - #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    1) Xykon's stack - he's at the top of it, often with a massive wedge of monsters courtesy of supports. Yet once he dies, they all run, right? So do they exist only to give him boosts to make that one final fight harder?
    That's correct. It seemed strange to my group, so we decided to move Xykon to the bottom of the stack (but ahead of any Henchman cards in the stack). We got an idea of the problem here when Roy ripped through the entire stack with Great Cleavage and arrived at Xykon with triple-digit Attack/Defense bonuses: very dramatic, but no contest whatsoever. We won't be doing that again.

  7. Top - End - #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    That's correct. It seemed strange to my group, so we decided to move Xykon to the bottom of the stack (but ahead of any Henchman cards in the stack). We got an idea of the problem here when Roy ripped through the entire stack with Great Cleavage and arrived at Xykon with triple-digit Attack/Defense bonuses: very dramatic, but no contest whatsoever. We won't be doing that again.
    That's exactly it; if he's on the top the rest of the stack is irrelevant besides the Boosting. If he's on the bottom, he doesn't get boosted and the characters get to whittle their way through a horde of minions (potentially getting stronger in the process, or using Great Cleavage) before they get to a much-depleted Xykon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Where does it say that? We've always taken it that win is a win.
    The rule is located on page 18 of the rulebook:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungeon of Dorukan rulebook, p 18
    • If you win a battle without a Battle Shtick, the result is treated as a draw.
    Enaloindir


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    Ah, we stand corrected. Now I understand why Armour/Hide/Poorly Planned Illusion and so on have a use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    No. The card requires the players chosen to decide whether or not to assist when there is no Loot being offered. NPC players can't really do that, because there is no one to make the decision for them. Therefore, they can't be one of the two players chosen to assist.

    As a rule of thumb, if an effect that can target a player requires any sort of decision on the part of the targeted player, then that effect can't target an NPC. Likewise, anything that moves a player, causes a player to do something with a shtick, Wounds a player, etc., cannot target an NPC, because NPC's don't do any of those things.



    If you mean when you are the battling player, yes. (The fact that you can be one of the two players offering assistance is spelled out on the card.)
    Thanks, however, I'm afraid I have another question. If you get a Trap in your initial 3 Loot Cards, do you discard it and draw another one, or just discard it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Anyways, here's my little brace.
    1) Xykon's stack - he's at the top of it, often with a massive wedge of monsters courtesy of supports. Yet once he dies, they all run, right? So do they exist only to give him boosts to make that one final fight harder?
    Yes, they exist to make Xykon tougher. Also note that they might have an effect if you try to use an Area Effect shtick on Xykon, such as trying to Fireball him when he has a minion with Bloodlust right under him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    2) Schtick-less combat. If you have no schticks which are applicable to a contest, can you still get assistance? Ie all your bonuses will come from the assistance of others, even though you're on +0 for the purposes of schtick? We've been playing it that as long as the character in question is on the same level as you, and there isn't anything else preventing it, you can always ask for assistance.
    Yes, you can get assistance, or use any other non-Battle Shtick that adds to your Attack or Defense (such as Elan's Conscience Devil/Angel cards). But, as mentioned, the best result you can ever get without a Battle Shtick is a draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    Thanks, however, I'm afraid I have another question. If you get a Trap in your initial 3 Loot Cards, do you discard it and draw another one, or just discard it?
    Discard and draw another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Discard and draw another.
    Thanks, we've been playing that one wrong.
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  13. Top - End - #283
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    I've now spent a good couple hours poring through this entire thread, and while some questions have been answered, I've still got a few left.

    Is Eternal Gratitude usable against NPCs, or just PCs? The wording on the card is, "Choose any one player that assisted you...", but from what I've seen in these threads, the terms don't seem to be strictly applied.

    Is there anything to prevent people from outright trading loot, rather than bribing for help in battle, or other officially sanctioned exchanges?

    In the room with the Xykon statue, is there really a choice about defacing it if you rest there? The card says, "you may deface the statue", but you've got eight times the chance of something bad happening as something good, so it's not really a good bet. Is it just there for the people who like long shots, or are you supposed to have to roll every time you rest in the room?

    I now see why Xykon goes at the top of the stack rather than the bottom, putting all of his sword fodder in front of him, but I'll throw in another possibility: Determine Xykon's (or Redcloak's) strength at the beginning of each turn, giving him all of the support bonuses for the backup in his room, even though they'll be dead by the time you get to him personally. In Xykon's case, it makes a sort of sense anyway, since he is supported by undead.

    Given what I've seen throughout, it's kinda answered the question of how it's supposed to be, but I figure I'll throw out this variant also, since it does kinda present different strategy options: When calling for help, move the aiding player into the same room as the battle they're going to help with. It means that they're in position to grab additional Loot from that battle, and may potentially pull them out of position for some other fight that they had on their docket.


    I'd also like to revisit the question posed in post #145 (page 5) of this thread, and kinda addressed in #147-8. It doesn't read to me like the question was answered at all. The response at the time was, "Since Swipe doesn't actually defeat the monster (ie. remove it from the encounter), Haley cannot continue on to attack/defend the next monster in the stack."

    The last bullet point under 8.) Battle Additional Monsters says, "You may continue to battle Monsters one after another until you lose, a battle is a draw, there are no more monsters, or you choose to stop." It doesn't say you must defeat the monster (or remove it from the encounter).

    Given a successful Swipe, that's not a loss or a draw, and there must still be monsters there, or it wouldn't be a question in the first place, she'd just take the Loot. So why must she stop? Why wouldn't she be able to continue, either fighting or Swiping? There's nothing I can see elsewhere in Battle Additional Monsters, Aftermath, or Apply Results that implies to me that Swipe should end her turn. Is there something else I'm missing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RibbonViking View Post
    Is Eternal Gratitude usable against NPCs, or just PCs? The wording on the card is, "Choose any one player that assisted you...", but from what I've seen in these threads, the terms don't seem to be strictly applied.
    Yes, you can give loot to NPC's.

    Quote Originally Posted by RibbonViking View Post
    Is there anything to prevent people from outright trading loot, rather than bribing for help in battle, or other officially sanctioned exchanges?
    You can only trade loot within the confines of the rules (i.e. normally for just help in battles.)

    Quote Originally Posted by RibbonViking View Post
    In the room with the Xykon statue, is there really a choice about defacing it if you rest there?
    You do not need to deface the statue. Most people who are good at math will not deface it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RibbonViking View Post
    When calling for help, move the aiding player into the same room as the battle they're going to help with. It means that they're in position to grab additional Loot from that battle, and may potentially pull them out of position for some other fight that they had on their docket.
    Interesting idea - this would mean that people wouldn't automatically accept loot. We'll try playing this way sometime and post it as a possible house rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by RibbonViking View Post
    Given a successful Swipe, that's not a loss or a draw, and there must still be monsters there, or it wouldn't be a question in the first place, she'd just take the Loot. So why must she stop?
    It might be more clear to say that you can only encounter each monster once on your turn AND you can (normally) only encounter the top monster. If you've already battled the top monster and it's still there after you're finished, then you can't battle any further.

    We might be able to think of exceptions to that, but it kind of works for me for now.
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Me and a couple friends just finished up our second game, and we had a question towards the end.

    After you defeat Xykon and the dungeon is collapsing which floor is the NPC characters on? We were not sure which floor they were on to provide support in a PvP fight.

    Keep up the good work guys, we are really enjoying this game and look forward to any expansions you guys come up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daryoon View Post
    After you defeat Xykon and the dungeon is collapsing which floor is the NPC characters on? We were not sure which floor they were on to provide support in a PvP fight.
    As usual, they are on the deepest level which still has a PC on it...

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    My turn to ask a question ;)

    When using area of effect shticks, if the top monster has the Duel ability, are you still prohibited from asking for assistance? What about when the second monster has the Duel ability?
    -> Going by the descriptive text, I would say yes.

    If you have a specific bonus against a monster type (like V's loot which grants +2 Attack and +2 Defense against Dragons), when do you only apply the bonus? If you are shooting a fireball at a Dragon with a Defense Rating of 10, and some other monster with a Defense Rating of 9, you have to beat the 10. Can you apply the +2 bonus provided by the loot to this roll? If so, you would only need to roll a 4 to beat the Dragon's Defense Rating (after factoring in Fireball's +5 Attack). This way, however, you would not really beat the other monster's Defense Rating. So, so you take the creature's printed Defense Rating into account, or do you look at the actual Defense Rating?

    Thanks,
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    The rules state that any and all abilities of all targeted monsters take effect. So since Fireball will affect 2 monsters, it doesn't matter if it's the top or second monster that has Duel - you cannot ask for help.

    Yes, in the instance you describe below, you get the +2 bonus.
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    Thanks!

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    i cant seem to find it, but its a 1 on a die roll a fail? it would seem to make sence since at some point or another with enough sticks and bonus's a roll of a 1 plus your sticks = dead monster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbit View Post
    [...]its a 1 on a die roll a fail? [...]
    Nope, no such things as critical failures. If you can get your bonus to the roll high enough, you don't need bother rolling anymore. :)

    Enaloindir


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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I will add that there is a group of variant rules that you could use on page 23, one of which is Lucky Bastards which makes 1 auto-failures, and 12 auto-successes. Obviously you don't have to use this, as it is a variant, but if you feel it is appealing to do this, you can. Just thought that information might be useful.
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I stand corrected...

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    Finally managed another game of this yesterday.
    Roy, V and Elan were stumbling through the dungeon having fun.

    Inevitable question after playing
    There are trap cards that cause you to "lose a turn". What happens if you pick this up as the first thing in a turn? While resting?
    This is how we played it out
    - Picking up after a battle = Lose NEXT turn.
    - Pick up as part of Resting?? - Lose turn AFTER resting?
    - Pick up at start of turn = lose the rest of THIS turn. Ie you picked up loot found a trap, and lose move/attack actions as a result. However you could have traded in schticks/searched for stairs already.
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    I've been reading the comic for a long time, and it's great. I finally bought the game and played it, which has lead me to joining the forum in order to ask questions.

    The game is great so far, but my group brought up a few questions (pardons if they are obnoxiously nitpicky, but what else do you expect from a group of gamers).

    Is there a maximum hand size for battle cards? I.e. can Durkon rest and re-use WWTD to take up the entire battle deck, three cards at a time?

    Elan’s Wacky Hijinks: Is it within the strict interpretation of the rules that if two players refuse to put their fingers on their nose that then the shtick has no effect?

    Can you voluntarily flip a shtick without using it? I.e., can Belkar flip Leap Attack, just because he feels like it (and for no other reason)? Even battle shticks (Allowing V to reduce the size of the Fireball area effect)?

    The proposed rules in the FAQ for dealing with huge combat sizes is to limit support to a single monster (the highest applicable on the stack). If a goblin ninja is at the top of the stack followed by Redcloak and a host of goblins, then would the correct play be that the ninja would receive all of the assist bonuses and Redcloak would receive support only from the ninja (and thus only increase the stack size by one)?

    If the stack survives unharmed, in the next battle since the ninja only receives bonuses during the first turn in play, would the goblins then support Redcloak (both increasing Redcloak’s Attack and Defense and increasing the battle size, but not changing the battle size because it already was determined the previous round) or does the ninja still “claim” the supporting goblins?

    While normally this wouldn’t matter, because you’d have to kill the ninja before you could get to Redcloak, but if you are using Area Effect shticks it DOES matter. A ninja with a boosted attack and an unsupported Redcloak are cheese for V’s Fireball grater, while an unsupported ninja with a supported Redcloak are an entirely different story.

    This also applies to dealing with Xykon. Can you use Elan’s Poorly Planned Illusion to move in a low-power support stealer into Xykon’s room to reduce Xykon’s defense and then follow up with more Area Effect shticks to either weed out Xykon’s supporters or to take Xykon himself out?

    A suggestion, but to avoid cheese like this, how about limiting each supporting monster in increase the battle size only once per room, regardless of the number of applicable supportable monsters with Horde (or similar) abilities? (The Giant already suggested this back in the Invincible Xykon thread).

    This would also allow supporting monsters to support multiple monsters within a room, meaning that a Ninja Goblin and Redcloak would have the same Attack and Defense as Redcloak and a Ninja Goblin, which reduces Area Effect cheese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarth View Post
    Is there a maximum hand size for battle cards? I.e. can Durkon rest and re-use WWTD to take up the entire battle deck, three cards at a time?
    There's no limit to your hand size. Yes, if Durkon wants to spend every other turn resting, he can take the whole deck if that's the kind of thing that makes the game fun for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarth View Post
    Elan’s Wacky Hijinks: Is it within the strict interpretation of the rules that if two players refuse to put their fingers on their nose that then the shtick has no effect?
    Right, if two or more people don't touch their nose, then the shtick has no effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarth View Post
    Can you voluntarily flip a shtick without using it?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarth View Post
    The proposed rules in the FAQ for dealing with huge combat sizes is to limit support to a single monster (the highest applicable on the stack). If a goblin ninja is at the top of the stack followed by Redcloak and a host of goblins, then would the correct play be that the ninja would receive all of the assist bonuses and Redcloak would receive support only from the ninja (and thus only increase the stack size by one)?
    Right. A monster can only support the top-most monster that it can support. Both Redcloak and the other goblins will support the top-most goblin (the ninjas) and Redcloak will receive support from only the ninjas, since it's the only other goblin in play when Redcloak comes down and since it's the top-most goblin that the ninjas can support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarth View Post
    If the stack survives unharmed, in the next battle since the ninja only receives bonuses during the first turn in play, would the goblins then support Redcloak (both increasing Redcloak’s Attack and Defense and increasing the battle size, but not changing the battle size because it already was determined the previous round) or does the ninja still “claim” the supporting goblins?
    No, they're still supporting the ninjas. However, if the ninjas are defeated, then the goblin's support will switch to Redcloak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evnafets View Post
    There are trap cards that cause you to "lose a turn". What happens if you pick this up as the first thing in a turn? While resting?
    This is how we played it out
    - Picking up after a battle = Lose NEXT turn.
    - Pick up as part of Resting?? - Lose turn AFTER resting?
    - Pick up at start of turn = lose the rest of THIS turn. Ie you picked up loot found a trap, and lose move/attack actions as a result. However you could have traded in schticks/searched for stairs already.
    Page 20 of the rules should answer these questions. As soon as you lose a turn, your turn ends and you lay your character's move token on it's side. The next turn you stand the move token back up, and the turn after that you can move.

    If you are forced to lose a turn before you start resting, then you don't rest.
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    Page 20 of the rules should answer these questions. As soon as you lose a turn, your turn ends and you lay your character's move token on it's side. The next turn you stand the move token back up, and the turn after that you can move.

    If you are forced to lose a turn before you start resting, then you don't rest.
    Ouch. That seems kinda harsh if you find this trap by picking up loot at the start of your turn.
    In effect you would lose almost TWO turns. The current turn is over (you didn't have a chance to move/attack). You miss the next turn entirely just to stand up.

    Your clarification with regard to resting has confused me even more.
    According to the rules on page20, when you rest
    - You turn your token on its side. You are now resting. Your turn is over
    - If there is loot in the room, you may pick up 2 loot cards immediately when you begin resting
    (emphasis is mine)
    You said
    If you are forced to lose a turn before you start resting, then you don't rest.
    However you have to start resting to draw the two loot...


    This has jogged my memory for another question I had.
    Roy kills a pile of monsters, and a whole bunch of loot drops in the room.

    On his next turn, Roy rests in the room, and picks up two loot.
    Elan comes into the room and triggers an area trap while picking up the loot.
    Would Roy have to make his evasion roll at -4 because he is resting?
    Check out past werewolf games at the Unofficial GiantITP werewolf archive
    Also wasting too much time playing Evony right now.
    I don't wanna be a llama or a duck or a wabbit.
    I wanna be a POODLE!

  29. Top - End - #299
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I had a question I hope could be answered here. My roommate and I were playing a two player game to get the jist of things before we started a large game.

    He is attacking a couple of monsters with a fireball from 3 rooms away. The monsters are Goblin Girl and Goblin Teenagers. Goblin Girl has the highest defense, but the Teenagers have the outsmart support ability. Does outsmart kick in or not? We weren't sure because it's ranged, AOE, and not the person with the highest defense. Please help us with this so we can continue our kickass game.

    Thanks.

  30. Top - End - #300
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Enaloindir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Belgium, Europe

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Yes, the outsmart ability kicks in...


    Enaloindir


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