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Thread: Rules Questions

  1. - Top - End - #511
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    You're right that there's no explicit, unambiguous statement in the rules that limits it to one (plus boosts). But it seems clear enough that that's the intent. If you look through the past messages in this thread, there might be something from apegamer or TheGiant that would confirm it - probably not explicitly, but they might have given an example that fits this interpretation only.

    If this was different for battle vs. non-battle shticks, that would certainly merit an explicit mention, and there isn't any. Leaping Attack, Great Cleavage, Sneak Attack, and especially Bard Song would be rather overpowered if each one counted independently as well as boosting all the others. Great Cleavage is arguably overpowered already.

    It could make for an interesting variation, though, if we throw in something to help V and Durkon stay competitive. Elan would need some help too, though, since inflating the power of Bard Song only helps the people he assists, not him.
    I agree with your statement. To me it would seem silly to assume that each individual shtick was independent and was boosted by each other shtick of the same name in play. The efforts to keep track of the bonuses, let alone writing those rules out clearly enough that they would be interpreted that way by the majority of players, seem staggering. I know in my groups we've never had this notion, but hey, everyone thinks differently.
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  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I may just not be looking at the manual hard enough, but how often do you replenish your battle deck? And are the Screw This! cards mixed in with the monsters?

  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Elurindel View Post
    how often do you replenish your battle deck?
    Do you mean each player's Battle Hand? When it's your turn to play a monster and you don't have any left, you then discard any remaining Screw This! cards and draw a new battle hand of seven cards. (Rulebook page 11, under "Playing Monsters", third bullet.

    If you mean the Battle Deck that hands are drawn from, you reshuffle all the discarded monsters and Screw This! cards when the deck is empty. The original rules said to do that immediately when the deck runs out, but the FAQ updates that rule so you wait until the end of the turn. That's so a big monster stack that grows extremely large with Horde can't grow indefinitely.

    And are the Screw This! cards mixed in with the monsters?
    Yes. Monsters that are turned in for shticks and Screw This! cards are discarded into one pile, which is then reshuffled if the Battle Deck runs out.

  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stone View Post
    Is it possible to remove the "Xykon" special ability from Xykon using the "I forgot they could do that" card?

    It sounds pretty silly at first but the rules doesn't forbid it, from what i can tell. This came up in the last game we played and after a good laugh we decided that yes, its possible to remove the "xykon" ability, which postpones the destruction of the dungeon by one turn if he is defeated (when IFTCDT is no longer i effect). What's the official ruling?
    Additional Question: If it is legal...
    Can you discard him w/ the Muskrat 3000 or move him w/ PPI? In the first case, who gets Bragging Points?

    Also, on p. 14, in the "player attacks" example, you made a mathematical error in the math problem itself: 9+2 is NOT 13! (or was this supposed to be a joke, looking at Elan on the side saying "Addition... my old foe. We meet again"?)

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnema View Post
    Additional Question: If it is legal...
    Can you discard him w/ the Muskrat 3000 or move him w/ PPI? In the first case, who gets Bragging Points?
    No, you can't use Muskrat for that. I think it's somewhere in the rules. I think it's been rules that you are able to move it with PPI but you still need to kill him.
    Also, on p. 14, in the "player attacks" example, you made a mathematical error in the math problem itself: 9+2 is NOT 13! (or was this supposed to be a joke, looking at Elan on the side saying "Addition... my old foe. We meet again"?)
    The rulebook has some mistakes, like the one you pointed out, yes.
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  6. - Top - End - #516
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I have a question about the Banjo the Clown schtick for Elan. How exactly is it supposed to work? Does the bonus from the vote continue through the end of the turn, or does it only last for the single die roll of the current battle? Reading the card, my group can see it working either way.

    Thanks all.

  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    It flips, so it doesn't matter. It lasts until it's used once when it's flipped. Unless you play "A Good Laugh" in which case i guess the vote still counts towards the bouns.
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  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    No, you can't use Muskrat for that. I think it's somewhere in the rules.
    Nowhere do I see this - besides the Xykon special ability, which was canceled. It is not in the "Xykon the Lich" section, at any rate.

  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnema View Post
    Nowhere do I see this - besides the Xykon special ability, which was canceled. It is not in the "Xykon the Lich" section, at any rate.
    Ah, ok. Thing is i don't consider canceling Xykon Special legal.
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  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Official Ruling please

    I would like an official ruling on these if possible.

    Question 1:
    You have three unflipped fireballs available to use and you shoot a room 4 squares away. The fireballs are boosted by 2

    The fireball adds 5 to your attack roll and you hit all 4 monsters in the other room (thanks to boost).
    For simplicity sake they all have 5 defense and no abilities that hinder your ability to kill them.

    Do you flip fireball after you declare attack or at the very end of combat?

    If it's the latter, then DUNDUNDUN can effectively remove a boost card so you are only capable of hitting 3 of the 4 monsters. -- I think this is the correct answer but my group disagrees.

    If it is the first then even if DUNDUNDUN is played, the boost has already taken affect and will not prevent you from hitting all 4, since you already played the boosted card.

    Question 2:
    A loot item offers 3x available move speed if you discard it (i forgot the name)
    I ruled that you could move UP TO 9 squares, some people in my group disagreed and said that you MUST MOVE 9 squares.

    Question 3:
    My last question is more of a request of people who have added their own house rules to this game.

    It seems like Haley is the best character in the game, any recommendations to nerf her a little, or do you guys disagree.

    V on the other hand seems to be lacking, do you think adding +1 attack to the normal boost of the fireball will make him completely unbalanced? Or will it effectively give him the push he needs to have a chance of winning?

  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: Official Ruling please

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin1280 View Post
    I would like an official ruling on these if possible.
    That's not me, but maybe this will help until The Giant or apegamer chimes in.

    Do you flip fireball after you declare attack or at the very end of combat?
    At the end. Page 15 of the rules puts the flipping under "aftermath".

    If it's the latter, then DUNDUNDUN can effectively remove a boost card so you are only capable of hitting 3 of the 4 monsters.
    Correct, as long as it's played before the die roll.

    A loot item offers 3x available move speed if you discard it (i forgot the name)
    I ruled that you could move UP TO 9 squares, some people in my group disagreed and said that you MUST MOVE 9 squares.
    That's the Gourd of Speed. I would say anything up to 9 is fine. But if someone wants to be more strict, they could only say that you can move 0, 3, 6, or 9. Since you normally have the option of moving 1 or 2 spaces, triple that means you have the option of moving 3 or 6. You're not forced to move 3 spaces without the Gourd, so you're not forced to move 9 with it. The only arguable bit is whether you can move 4, 5, 7, or 8 spaces, since those aren't exactly triple.

    It seems like Haley is the best character in the game, any recommendations to nerf her a little, or do you guys disagree.
    Well, she is one of the easier characters to play (along with Roy). Her starting battle shticks are the strongest, and (along with Durkon) she's pretty well-balanced between attack and defense. But she doesn't stay the strongest in a long game, and she doesn't have time to amass lots of loot in a short game. A little nerfing might be ok, but not too much.

    V on the other hand seems to be lacking, do you think adding +1 attack to the normal boost of the fireball will make him completely unbalanced? Or will it effectively give him the push he needs to have a chance of winning?
    V isn't hurting for attack. If anything, a little extra defense would help, especially in the early game. Maybe let Magic Misslie start with a base defense of 2, but then knock the boost defense down to just +1.

  12. - Top - End - #522
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    Default Re: Official Ruling please

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Well, she is one of the easier characters to play (along with Roy). Her starting battle shticks are the strongest, and (along with Durkon) she's pretty well-balanced between attack and defense. But she doesn't stay the strongest in a long game, and she doesn't have time to amass lots of loot in a short game. A little nerfing might be ok, but not too much.



    V isn't hurting for attack. If anything, a little extra defense would help, especially in the early game. Maybe let Magic Misslie start with a base defense of 2, but then knock the boost defense down to just +1.
    Regarding Haley, I'm not exactly sure how to nerf her, ideas?

    Regarding V, I'm trying to follow the character archetypes, V is not a defender and really shouldn't get a bonus defense. He is however an attacker, the problem is loot is an issue for V because he does all his damage at range. So by adding the +1 attack to the boost for the fireball, this should allow him to achieve monster destruction easier, and he can concentrate on Loot cards after wiping out a floor...

  13. - Top - End - #523
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I got a question I'm pretty sure I know the answer to. Can "Screw This" cards that can be played "At any time," such as The Kobold and the Brave or Get Angry, be played AFTER the dice are rolled but BEFORE the results are applied?

    As I see it, the answer is no, both from the Official Word that cards like Halfling Rage cannot be used in this way, and that Forgotten Bonus specifically says it CAN be used in this way, implying that the others cannot.

  14. - Top - End - #524
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogwarrior View Post
    Can "Screw This" cards that can be played "At any time," such as The Kobold and the Brave or Get Angry, be played AFTER the dice are rolled but BEFORE the results are applied?
    Once the dice are rolled, you can still play cards, but they can no longer affect that battle, because you're no longer battling - you're just figuring out what the results were. Official confirmation here.

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Question:
    A player sets off a trap with a range sufficient to reach another player who was resting. I've been playing that the resting player suffers the -4 defense penalty even though it's "evading" and not "defending". This makes it impossible to beat most of the traps in this way though those traps were already very difficult to evade. It seems to me that it's in the spirit of resting though not everyone agrees on this.
    Are there any rules to evading whilst resting that I have missed somewhere?
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  16. - Top - End - #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vix View Post
    Are there any rules to evading whilst resting that I have missed somewhere?
    No - the rules explain what to do for a trap, and they don't mention any changes for resting. They also don't mention applying any battle modifiers to the evasion roll. So I'd say there isn't supposed to be any difference when resting. The -4 penalty is only for battling on defense. I agree that some penalty would make sense for the theme and spirit, and you can certainly house-rule it that way, but it's not in the official rules.

    If you want to use an evade penalty while resting, but -4 is too much, you could try, say, -2.

  17. - Top - End - #527
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    ^Thankyou, I shall use -2, seems fair.

    I have another question concerning the battle hand
    The rules state to draw a new battle hand when you can no longer play a monster but it always assumes you still have unused screw this cards, saying discard any unused screw this cards from your hand etc. But what if you play your last screw this card or a monster and are left without a hand. can you draw a new battle hand immediately? at the end of the current turn? or should you wait without a hand until you're called on to play a monster and then proceed as the rules state?


    | Thanks for clearing that up for me
    V
    Last edited by Vix; 2009-06-26 at 08:51 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vix View Post
    or should you wait without a hand until you're called on to play a monster and then proceed as the rules state?
    that´s the right one.
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  19. - Top - End - #529
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    Question Re: Rules Questions

    I'm busy working my way through the thread now to see if this is answered, but figured I would post it for a quicker response:

    After getting through the first few pages here and having the rule about attacking Monsters with a ranged shtick that is greater than their own weapon and their inability to defend brought to light, this came to mind:

    Since Belkar's "Twin Daggers of Doom" adds +1 to his range is he then unable to take damage from a Monster who's weapon is only a range of 0?

  20. - Top - End - #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingMonkey View Post
    Since Belkar's "Twin Daggers of Doom" adds +1 to his range is he then unable to take damage from a Monster who's weapon is only a range of 0?
    He won't take damage from a range-0 monster if he's actually attacking from a range of more than 0 (that is, from another room). Simply using a shtick that's capable of such an attack, but doing it from the same room, doesn't protect him.

  21. - Top - End - #531
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I thought I had read an answer to this question previously, but after searching for "Fireball" again I can't find what I'm looking for.

    If V has a once-boosted Fireball (2 copies of the shtick in play) - after using it, does he flip both copies or just one? Meaning could he use a boosted version, and then have a "regular" version left to use before resting?

  22. - Top - End - #532
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by DancingMonkey View Post
    If V has a once-boosted Fireball (2 copies of the shtick in play) - after using it, does he flip both copies or just one? Meaning could he use a boosted version, and then have a "regular" version left to use before resting?
    Right, only one flips per battle. The rulebook gives an example of this with Durkon using Thor's Lightning on page 22.

  23. - Top - End - #533
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Forgive me if this has come up before. I have attempted to search the thread for what I'm looking for but the engine keeps dumping me at the link for this forum and I haven't the energy to wade the entire forum. I'd be happy to be linked to a previous reply that explains what I'm after.

    I was hosting a game for the first time in years at a small in-store gamecon in order to kick up sales for OOTS:TDOD for the store owner. I was showcasing the game for many people and so not playing it in full-press OOTS mode and the issue I'm looking at didn't arise.

    In an idle moment between demos I attempted to use the changed rules for battle-size by actually playing out the examples given, and I can't make the second one (the one that starts with Mr Demon and The Demon Roach King) work the way it goes in the FAQ.

    The rules as written in the FAQ say "Any given monster that could provide support to more than one other monster only actually provides support to the topmost monster in any given room". So far so simple.

    Now I play out the second example.

    Mr Demon is played.

    Demon Roach King is played and gets support from Mr Demon so battle size is +1. Demon Roach King supports Mr Demon as per rule quoted above.

    Orc Summoner is played, and the trouble starts. According to the FAQ example, the Orc Summoner gets support from the Demon Roach King, but according to the rule quoted above that support is being given to Mr Demon. Mr Demon's support is being claimed by the Demon Roach King and so cannot trigger the Orc Summoner's "Horde" ability either.

    Why does the battle size continue to grow (under the FAQ rule change)?

    Thanks,

    Steve.
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  24. - Top - End - #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxysteve View Post
    Demon Roach King supports Mr Demon as per rule quoted above.
    That's where you're deviating from the example. I think you're right, and this is a mistake in the example.

    There's another snag in the example, depending on how you interpret the Henchman ability of the Demon Roach King. It says "Moves to the bottom of any battle stack", but there are different ways that could be done, and I don't know of any official examples the demonstrate which way is supposed to be standard. This example seems to ignore that part of the Henchman ability entirely.

    The way I play, a Henchman goes to the bottom, and stays there, immediately when they are played. Any further monsters are played into the middle of the stack--below the previous non-Henchman monsters, but above the Henchmen. Alternatively, you might play all the monsters in order, and once the stack is complete, only then pull out the Henchmen and move them to the bottom. Depending on which method you choose, you could get a different battle size in some cases.

    So I would play the example like this:
    • Player 1 plays Mr. Demon.
    • Player 2 plays Demon Roach King under Mr. Demon. The two monsters support each other, so the King's Horde raises the battle size to 3.
    • Player 3 plays Orc Summoner between Mr. Demon and the King. Now Mr. Demon supports the Summoner instead of the King, while the King still supports Mr. Demon. The King has no support. The battle size increases again because the Summoner is a Leader.
    • Player 4 plays Demon Roaches, who support Mr. Demon. The battle stack is now finished.


    Using the other interpretation of Henchman, we get the same end result in this case. The first two steps work the same way, and then:
    • Player 3 plays Orc Summoner under the Demon Roach King. The Summoner supports no one and is supported by no one. The battle size increases again because the Summoner is a Leader.
    • Player 4 plays Demon Roaches, who support Mr. Demon. The battle stack is finished.
    • Now we move the King and Roaches to the bottom. Mr. Demon now supports the Summoner instead of the King, while the King and Roaches still supports Mr. Demon. The King has no support.


    With this second Henchman interpretation, it's possible in some cases that the battle size might increase after the rearrangement, but I wouldn't play any additional monsters at that point.

    It looks like when the example was written, they forgot that Mr. Demon gets support. So just pretend it's Hellpuppy instead of Mr. Demon, and then the example would almost work. It's still missing the movement of the Henchmen to the bottom of the stack, but that could be done after all the monsters are played, depending on your interpretation of Henchman.

  25. - Top - End - #535
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I have two questions:
    #1: If there is a monster and a player in a room together, can V use fireball on both?
    and
    #2: Can you run away from monsters (As in, not because your out of wounds)? And if so, how?
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  26. - Top - End - #536
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    1. No, area shticks only affect monsters (you can't PvP with fireball)
    2. Not sure what you are asking...
    You can walk through rooms with monsters, you only have to fight monsters that appear/are in the room you finish movement. If you start your turn in a room with monsters, you can either fight them or move to other rooms.
    The most similar thing to 'avoid' a fight with monsters when a battle happens is the defense only shticks (like hide).

    Hope that helps
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  27. - Top - End - #537
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Hi,
    First of all I love the game.
    I have played a little bit with my wife (a 2 player game) and have encountered several questions. I have read through this thread but did not quite understand everything:

    1. Ranged attack
    1. I am not sure I fully understand how ranged attack works when the target does not have the range:
    Let us assume I am playing Haley and attacking using my longbow a monster on the other room which has a range:0 do I automatically win (as they have 0 defense in this range)? If I use the "1" always looses rule is it a draw in such a case? I saw somewhere else that the defense stays but the monster cannot win (i.e. if I lose, its a draw), is this how it is done?
    Do the monster abilities apply? for example if it has impervious ability does it mean I can't use my bow? if it has support does it get the bonuses? On the one hand I would say these count because if I didn't have an appropriate shtick then I could still use items that give me bonuses as a player so the target monster should behave the same but on the other hand I saw somewhere that bloodlust would not take effect (the example showed it taking effect on an area effect when one monster had the range and the other had bloodlust and it was explained that if the bloodlust monster would have been alone then the effect would not happen).

    When a monster has a range of X. Is this the defense/attack against a ranged attack or is the defense the normal one and it just says that if the range is too low we have a draw if the player looses?

    For PvP ranged attack
    I saw that you can range attack a player but if you win you have to be in the same room to get the loot. What is the point of making a ranged attack against a player then?

    2. Battle stack

    Just wanted to make sure I understand the battle stack rules:
    Let us say that player A enters a room. We have a three player game (A,B,C). First player C plays monster C1, then player B plays monster B1 then player A plays monster A1.
    If I understand correctly, A1 is the top monster to fight then, after it is defeated, B1 can be fought and then C1.
    Does this mean that the player puts the third monster on himself (assuming of course it is not a special one that says it goes to the bottom)?

    Other than support issues, am I to understand correctly that if there is a larger battle stack the only limitation it adds (barring support issues) is that the player cannot take any loot until all monsters are defeated but it does not make it any harder to fight?

    3. balancing issues

    In our game I played Roy and my Wife played Haley. What happened was that I only had +2 from the greenhilt sword and my wife had +3 (sneak attack + bow)
    At the start of the game she got a couple of bonuses bringing her to +5. she then began to kill stuff and using assistance from the NPC (which were always available limited by loot only) she began to quickly win battles and get stronger and stronger while I stayed with my lowly +2 for a long time (as most of my shticks were relevant for more players).
    Pretty soon she began wading through the monsters and I couldn't even begin to evolve.
    I guess my question is what can be done to balance this. I guess when there are more players a couple of weak players would gang up on the leading one but here the stronger she got the easier it was for her to kill more monsters while I got stuck.

    Anyway thanks in advance for any clarifications you can give me...

  28. - Top - End - #538
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by voldan View Post
    Hi,
    1. Ranged attack
    1. I am not sure I fully understand how ranged attack works when the target does not have the range:
    Let us assume I am playing Haley and attacking using my longbow a monster on the other room which has a range:0 do I automatically win (as they have 0 defense in this range)? If I use the "1" always looses rule is it a draw in such a case?
    No, the monsters always uses the values they have, the difference is that if they don't have enough range to hit you, they can't win and it's a draw. So, you win if you defeat his defense or you draw if he beats your attack. A draw means that nothing happens, same as when your defense equals monsters attack.
    Do the monster abilities apply? for example if it has impervious ability does it mean I can't use my bow? if it has support does it get the bonuses?
    Some abilities apply, some do not: bloodlust does not but impervious does. Think about what abilities activate before battle and after battle and it gives you a good idea of the ones that apply even with insufficient range. I don't remember the official ruling, but i play that outsmart does.
    When a monster has a range of X. Is this the defense/attack against a ranged attack or is the defense the normal one and it just says that if the range is too low we have a draw if the player looses?
    Range only means how many rooms a monster can reach, either in range attack or defense.

    For PvP ranged attack
    I saw that you can range attack a player but if you win you have to be in the same room to get the loot. What is the point of making a ranged attack against a player then?
    Taking away that last wound so they have to rush to the dungeon entrance?

    2. Battle stack

    Just wanted to make sure I understand the battle stack rules:
    Let us say that player A enters a room. We have a three player game (A,B,C). First player C plays monster C1, then player B plays monster B1 then player A plays monster A1.
    If I understand correctly, A1 is the top monster to fight then, after it is defeated, B1 can be fought and then C1.
    Does this mean that the player puts the third monster on himself (assuming of course it is not a special one that says it goes to the bottom)?
    No, exactly the other way around. First player puts the top monster, each player adds a monster below the rest (except for roaches). But yes, it happens that players have to play monsters on itself.

    Other than support issues, am I to understand correctly that if there is a larger battle stack the only limitation it adds (barring support issues) is that the player cannot take any loot until all monsters are defeated but it does not make it any harder to fight?
    Pretty much, yes.

    3. balancing issues
    Yeah, the game is not really designed for 2 players so no balance there. Still, the Haley and Roy are the ones who fare better, it could have been the other way around if you hit Roy's boost early.

    Most of these questions are in the rules, you should re-check them.
    Last edited by PePe QuiCoSE; 2009-11-30 at 02:20 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #539
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    If you put the new monsters on the bottom and roaches always go to the bottom but only when they are played then what is the difference between them and normal monsters?

  30. - Top - End - #540
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    That's where you're deviating from the example. I think you're right, and this is a mistake in the example.
    Nope, it turns out I just can't read. The Orc Summoner increases the battle size because of his LEADER ability, not his unsupported HORDE ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    There's another snag in the example, depending on how you interpret the Henchman ability of the Demon Roach King. It says "Moves to the bottom of any battle stack", but there are different ways that could be done, and I don't know of any official examples the demonstrate which way is supposed to be standard. This example seems to ignore that part of the Henchman ability entirely.
    I play that the deck is played as in the book, with the card order inverted during battle stacking, then, when it gets reordered for the actual fight, the henchmen move, one at a time in the order they are encountered, to the bottom of the deck.

    Thanks for responding,

    Steve
    So it's psionic, so what? We can take it down lads!

    Lads?

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