Gestalt Warrior Arena Test

[Talic]

The racial aura provides the effects of a Globe of invulnerability, correct?

That means that any spell or spell like effect of 4th level or less cast that covers an area within that aura is supressed. Regardless of source. This means, among other things:

Stat enhancement items don't work for either party (based off second level spells).
Rings of Invisibility don't work for either party, nor does any effect based off the invisibility spell or greater invisibility.
Dispel Magic does not work for either party.

All of these effects are in place. However, you can target areas outside the globe just fine. But globe of invulnerability does not distinguish between friend or foe. It suppresses everything equally.

If that supernatural racial trait is identical to a globe of invulnerability, then it supresses all spell like effects, not just all spell like effects you choose. That's why they give you the option to suppress it. I do believe active suppression of an ability is a standard action.

[Vox Clamantis]

Just re-read the entry on Globe of Invulnerability, and it says both spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like abilities manifested by items are not influenced by its power.

So the bottle still functions within the aura, but the spell-like abilities work just fine.

Now the question is whether smoke magically created by an item can be dispelled.

~Gabriel

[Lyndworm]

I'm ruling that the smoke is non-magical, but the eversmoking bottle itself is not. So if you were to create an AMF around an (unstoppered) eversmoking bottle it would halt production of smoke, but the already existing smoke would linger. (For example.)

This means that the smoke cannot be dispelled. However, the eversmoking bottle can be dispelled, stopping it from producing more smoke for 1d4 rounds.

Zack

[Talic]

Just re-read the entry on Globe of Invulnerability, and it says both spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like abilities manifested by items are not influenced by its power.

So the bottle still functions within the aura, but the spell-like abilities work just fine.

Now the question is whether smoke magically created by an item can be dispelled.

~Gabriel

spell: An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.

So, it excludes spells, and excluded effects include items and SLA's (bold) However, spells already in effect are not affected by the globe. (underline)

So spells and effects from items that are already in effect are not affected by the Globe. This means that invisibility (mine) that was already functioning remains so, as with the smoke. This also includes continuous items, such as stat boost items and stuff, continue to function (they're already in effect when the globe hits them). We'll go with, the bottle doesn't work, and Land's already ruled that the smoke won't dispel, so that should be your turn.

Question: Do you have any abilities or feats that prevent the extraordinary special quality (Blindsense) from functioning? My current stance (Hearing the Air) grants it.

[Vox Clamantis]

Question: Do you have any abilities or feats that prevent the extraordinary special quality (Blindsense) from functioning? My current stance (Hearing the Air) grants it.

Nope.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Ok. My action:

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If he's ground level in K5, by my smoke bottle, as he said, then he's 5 feet away. I'll move 20 feet back, to P5. Now I'm 25 feet away. I still have him pinpointed, via blindsense.

Hide: (1d20+47)[67] -5 for Moving over 1/2 movement, +20 for invis.
Move Silent: (1d20+33)[39] -5 for moving over 1/2 movement.

Provided I am not detected (smoke blocks vision, so we both have total concealment, I am going to Snipe. Per Master Sniper ability, I can make one or more attacks, then hide as a free action afterwards, at a -10 penalty, instead of a -20.

Using the following tricks from Master Thrower: Weak spot, Deadeye shot.

This attack is resolved as a touch attack, but I don't add my strength bonus to damage:

Attack:[roll]1d20+[/roll] +1 for point blank shot, +2 for invis
If hits: (1d4+2)[4] (physical) + (1d6)[4] Fire + (1d6)[1] Acid +2 (if target is flat footed)
If threat: [roll]1d20+[/roll] +1 Point blank, +2 invis, +2 Crit confirmation bonus
If crit: (2d4+4)[8] (x3 crit modifier) +4 (if target is flat footed)

Weapon property: Seeking allows me to ignore the miss chance for concealment, provided I'm aiming at the right square (I am, as the square is pinpointed).

After attack, Hide check: (1d20+47)[65] -10 for sniping

[Talic]

Rolls broken, rerolling broken rolls:

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Attack: (1d20+24)[25]
If threat: (1d20+24)[39]

This is a touch attack, and I should have a +1 for being within 30 feet, and another +2 for being invisible. Further, unless my opponent has uncanny dodge and at least 8 rogue levels, he's flat footed (blind fight isn't enough, it only applies to melee attacks).

EDIT: Natural 1, attack misses.

Results of my turn: a javelin was thrown at you, but missed.

[Vox Clamantis]

OOC:

I really didn't intend on using the spell-like abilities at all, but this Eversmoking Bottle thing is so cheesy that my inhibitions are falling fast.

IC:

You hear a pure voice shout a single word in a Celestial tongue, and the world falls silent.

If you are within 40 ft of my current position, you fall deaf for [roll0] rounds. There is no save. I believe that your martial blindsense aura relies upon your ability to hear, yes?

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That was Holy Word, which I can use at-will as a spell-like ability. After pronouncing the word, I take to the air and fly to L24.

~Gabriel

[Vox Clamantis]

Didn't roll for some reason.

That's

(1d4)[3]

rounds.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

I don't mean to be a rules lawyer, but nothing in the description of Hearing the Air states that the blindsense it grants is based on hearing.

It references multiple senses, combat ability, and ability to predict my opponent's moves as what is granting the sense.

On a side note, you're criticizing my use of an item that obscures sight and a martial stance as cheesy, and throwing, so far:
Magic Circle, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Dispel Magic...
As best I can guess, Holy Word (based on the angelic theme, and my narrowing of possible creatures that you are down to 1, taking into account your aura).

In under 2 rounds... in a Warrior arena. Think that an average of 2 spells a round qualifies as perhaps just a bit outside the spirit of the arena? Just saying, before you criticize my martial stances and magic items.

Even so, it's no big deal. I'll take deafened. Because there's not a chance you're going to find me. Your spells can draw it to a tie, but they can't give you the W, if all you're doing is deafening me.

My turn. provided you're outside of 20 feet of the bottle, the 50' radius sphere goes to 60' radius.J5/K6 intersection is the start. This means that now, it extends to V5 and V6, and J17 and K17, and now touches the ceiling. If this is not correct, then let me know that you are within 20 feet of ground level J5/K6.

Otherwise, my action:

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Free Action: Activate Boots of Speed for htis round. I gain a +30 ft enhancement bonus to movement.
Standard action: Activate Iron Heart Surge. End Deafness effect.
Move to K18. I am on the border of the fog, and can now see outside of it. I am still in a fog square, so I benefit from concealment which allows me to hide.
Hide:(1d20+47)[61] -5 for movement over 1/2.
Move Silent: (1d20+32)[37] -5 for movement ofer 1/2.

This makes 2 maneuvers gone (Steely strike, Iron heart surge). 1st one sacrificed for returning feature.

I'd upload the map, modified, but unfortunately, MSPaint doesn't recognize html files.

Done. Could use LOS from a neutral party.

[Adumbration]

OOC: I've found that pressing Print Screen and then copying it to Paint works quite well.

[Talic]

Thanks for that tip.

Screen limitations force me to cut off the last 2 lines of the map. Unless you flew really south, it shouldn't matter. I've updated the map to add in a sphere on it. Anything in the sphere has thick smoke.

Updated map:

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[Vox Clamantis]

I don't mean to be a rules lawyer, but nothing in the description of Hearing the Air states that the blindsense it grants is based on hearing.

It references multiple senses, combat ability, and ability to predict my opponent's moves as what is granting the sense.

This is idiotic. For one thing, it's called Hear the Air. For another, it gives you a bonus to your Listen check, but not to Spot or Search. It explicitly relies upon hearing. You are the most dishonest player I've ever encountered.

I am withdrawing from this match. You have a munchkin build that relies upon exploiting the Hide mechanics, and you seem determined to interpret every word of the RAW to protect your ability to do that. This experience has not even been interesting, much less fun.

Since you seem ignorant to the difference, cheese exploits a particular rule to break the game. Optimizing simply increases the combat statistics of the character. My character is optimized. He could function in a thousand different situations, with any given equipment, against any foe. Yours is just pure cheese. The difference is not hard to perceive.

I will not be returning to this thread to read whatever reply you cook up, so save yourself the time.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

I don't appreciate the "I'm gonna yell at you then ignore you" mentality. Doesn't cast you in the best light.

First, stealth characters need methods to protect their stealth. That, I did.

Second, you tried to incorrectly interpret the smoke bottle as "recasting" itself every turn. It activates when unstoppered, and continues to function until stoppered with a command word. As it was unstoppered while outside of your aura, it would have fallen under the clause of "spell effects already in effect are unaffected". Lesser Globe of invulnerability is not an AMF. It does not behave like one. You tried to bludgeon that it makes pre-existing magical effects wink out. It was not RAW, and so I disputed it.

While the Hearing the Air maneuver does not specifically state that it uses hearing, I gave that one to you. Primarily because of the fluff text of the ability, and the insight bonus to listen checks. It made it seem RAI common sense.

Now, my character had roughly 50% of his WBL tied up solely in equipment that boosts his ability to not be detected. (Greater silent moves armor, Gloves of Dex, Eversmoking Bottle, Ring of invisibility). Further, he has 11 levels in classes that provide hide as a class skill, and took it at double cost the last 4 levels. He has several feats that enhance stealth. His race is based on stealth. His racial sub. levels are based on stealth. All are taken to do exactly what they are intended to do. I didn't have phenomenal damage (1d4+2 physical, and 2d6 energy per hit, on average).

You wouldn't call a barbarian based character a munchkin for optimizing strength. Why on earth do you call a rogue based character a munchkin for optimizing hide? ESPECIALLY when doing it costs that character damage? While in that smoke, I'm out 8d6 sneak attack per hit.

Many arena characters have enough damage output to wipe out a character in one hit. Others have AC so high, most characters need a 20 to hit them.

Mine was designed to not be seen. That's all. If you expect your opponents to be powerless at 15th level, I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

If you want to call "munchkin" because your character has no defense against it, that's on you.

You had the ability to pick up abilities that generate wind. You had the ability to smash the bottle on the ground. You could have just stayed up higher/farther away.

But no. You got cocky, you had difficulty finding me, and you got frustrated, and called me a munchkin and left.

In most circles, that is what's known as "poor sportsmanship".