130: Order of battle and tactical options

[pendell]

Parson's forces
Updates : none.
Potential additional assets: Stanley + 1 foolamancer + 5 dwagons, minimum. 30 dwagons accompanined Stanley, but only 5 were observed flying with him out of the hex. This does not mean they were all killed, but it is possible. So 5 dwagons is a worst case.

They cannot arrive before their turn, so they cannot assist against Ansom's initial assault.

Royal forces

Updates: Jetstone has lost at least 1000 troops in the tunnel fighting, since that many are uncroaked and are now on top of the walls. Assume 25% casualties, worse-case. Assume similar losses to marbits, although we don't know anything about those losses yet.
So: Update Jetstone to 3000
Update marbits to 1400.

The airborne contingent was decimated by Gobwin Knob air defenses, but on a simple numbers basis they are too few to make a difference to the overall forces.
Charlescomm is set to 0, since Charlescomm is no longer on the Jetstone side.

Presumably Charlie is available for hire by either side at this point. The more likely solution, however, is that Charles waits until the dust settles, then captures Gobwin knob from the 'winner', securing the Arkenpliers and Parson, or at least his mathamancy widget.

Ansom is leading a direct assault on the outer walls. Siege and other units will follow behind.

Since the last klog foreshadowed a fight within the garrison, assume Ansom succeeds in dusting lots of uncroaked and securing the outer walls. This leaves Parson with the following options on his turn:

1) Fall back to dungeon.
2) Fall back to tower.

Most likely dungeon, since that is far more lethal.

The single "I win" button is to kill Ansom. It seems obvious that he's the only thing holding together the coalition at this point, and he is bravely fighting at the head of his troops. Defeat him, and the battle is won. Fail to do this, and overwhelming numbers within the walls plus artifact bonus plus leadership bonus ensures total defeat.

Who is capable of defeating Ansom?
1) Stanley himself.
2) Parson, possibly using his one-eyed troll 'double' as a decoy.
3) ??? I don't think any of the casters can beat Ansom in one-on-one combat.

It all comes down to these last few strips. Win or lose, the battle of Gobwin Knob is rapidly drawing to a close.

Feedback? Comments? What have I missed?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[SteveMB]

Potential additional assets: Stanley + 1 foolamancer + 5 dwagons, minimum. 30 dwagons accompanined Stanley, but only 5 were observed flying with him out of the hex. This does not mean they were all killed, but it is possible. So 5 dwagons is a worst case.

Six dwagons, actually.

The airborne contingent was decimated by Gobwin Knob air defenses, but on a simple numbers basis they are too few to make a difference to the overall forces.

In any case, they'll need time to get back. They flew two turns (stuffing two of their turns between two of Stanley's turns with the alliance-shift exploit) to get to the choke point, so at least some of them would need two turns to return -- however, it's possible that the faster ones (Jillian on her personal gwiffon?) might be able to return in one turn.

Charlescomm is set to 0, since Charlescomm is no longer on the Jetstone side.

The presence of the Archons complicates things for both sides (more so for Ansom's side, since he has less information about what the boop Charlie is up to than Parson does). A complication is not necessarily a bad thing, though (especially for Parson -- every monkey wrench thrown into the situation changes the situation a bit further away from the no-win scenario of being stomped by an overwhelmingly powerful opponent).

Who is capable of defeating Ansom?
1) Stanley himself.
2) Parson, possibly using his one-eyed troll 'double' as a decoy.
3) ??? I don't think any of the casters can beat Ansom in one-on-one combat.

The "decoy" idea won't work against a commander (who can see stats), unless there's some sort of trick (another applicaiton of Foolamancy?) that can falsify a unit's stat display.

What have I missed?

A few things, none of them all that crucial, really.

[DevilDan]

The RCC still does have possibly a fair number or orlies or other flying units too slow for Jillian to have taken to hunt down Stanley. Surely Ansom employ them.

Let's not forget that Parson will have likely planned for this course of action: he knew that Ansom would be infuriated and he knew that the RCC's cohesion would be diminished. Parson must then have a plan to counter a direct attack from Ansom or he would not have shown off his uncroaked. (Yes, the uncroaked could have caused the RCC to wait on their attack and does help him to weaken the RCC and can serve for purposes of psychological warfare, but Ansom was already going to take an entire turn to surround the city, so why show off the uncroaked and bait Ansom like this?)

On a separate note, do we know that commanders can see the stats of units not on their side?

[pendell]

The "decoy" idea won't work against a commander (who can see stats), unless there's some sort of trick (another applicaiton of Foolamancy?) that can falsify a unit's stat display.

Perhaps -- yet I remember an interview Parson had with Bogroll and asked him what he most wanted in life.

Bogroll's response: "To save your life, milord".

Parson looking thoughtful and disturbed, than walking away.

Ansom has seen Parson up close via thinkagram, and so would not mistake Bogroll for Parson face-to-face. The whole missing eye thing.

But from a distance might be another matter. And it might not be *Ansom* who needs to be fooled.

I do know that we've foreshadowed A) a sacrifice of some units and B) Bogroll's loyalty and willingness to be so sacrificed. I can well see him being used as a 'body double' for Parson. How that will be used to effect is another question entirely.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Oslecamo]

Cue lord of the rings intro music.

A last alliance between elves and humans marched against the armies of Stanley, and in Gobwin Knob all the fate of Efworld was to be settled

Overview of the capital appears. Coalition forces pushing forward inside the garrison with Ansom at the frontline killing uncroacked like nobody's business.

Victory was near...But the power of plot, was too much to be defeated

Hamster appears, bigger than anything else in the battlefield. He calmly looks over the little marbits, humans and elves. Then he swings his badass sword, and dozens of them go flying into the air. Hamster repeats the attack and keep swating away the coalition forces. Ansom then tries to charge, but gets swated as well.

Then Stanley arrives, and sees that the Coalition forces are pwned and hamster standing over a huge pile of dead elves/marbits/humans, puting Ansom's head over a stake.

Enemy defeated lord Stanley.

Took you long enough

I'm sorry lord Stanley.

Meh, nevermind. Come, we have a world to dominate.

Seriously, I can't wait to see Hamster in battle.
We've seen warlords in combat, and they utterly pwn everything(except mancers), so since Hamster is suposed to be the ultimate warlord, I predict he's gonna wipe the floor with Ansom.

Of course, he'll probably only join the fight when everything seems lost, aka when Ansom is pushing inside the garrison itself.

[pendell]

Whatever his stats are, the reality is Hamster is extremely fat and out of shape, unused to physical activity let alone combat.

Ansom *is* a bona fide hero. He wears plate mail all the time without any sign of discomfort. He is at the peak of fitness. He leads his troops in battle. He has vanquished a number of foes in single combat.

Unless that luckamancy and that sword give a *lot* of help, I would expect Parson to defeat Ansom through cunning and Strategery, a la David and Goliath, over a straight physical confrontation.

Heck. Parson has a devious mind. I don't see him ever taking the straight way to any objective if there's a crooked way that will work.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Oslecamo]

Unless that luckamancy and that sword give a *lot* of help, I would expect Parson to defeat Ansom through cunning and Strategery, a la David and Goliath, over a straight physical confrontation.

Well, so far the other items he received proved to be very usefull.

The sword is made of THREE combined items. That means it's much stronger than normal.

ALso, this comic:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0118.html

From the square when Hamster is swinging his sword, there's something in his look. He looks much more confortable with it. I believe this shows the sword imbues him with combat ability.

Altough wiping the floor with Ansom may be exagerated, I believe that when the time comes Hamster will be a mighty combat machine. With a retinue of KISS gobwins(wich we saw being as strong as warlords) to suport him, I belive he'll be able to isolate Ansom and gank him to death.

Heck. Parson has a devious mind. I don't see him ever taking the straight way to any objective if there's a crooked way that will work.

Well, that's the point. He may not have other chance. He's probably the strongest unit in Gobwin Knob he has currently available, and Ansom ain't gonna stop untill he has Hamster's head or is killed.

[Sieggy]

Six dwagons, actually.

In any case, they'll need time to get back. They flew two turns (stuffing two of their turns between two of Stanley's turns with the alliance-shift exploit) to get to the choke point, so at least some of them would need two turns to return -- however, it's possible that the faster ones (Jillian on her personal gwiffon?) might be able to return in one turn.

The presence of the Archons complicates things for both sides (more so for Ansom's side, since he has less information about what the boop Charlie is up to than Parson does). A complication is not necessarily a bad thing, though (especially for Parson -- every monkey wrench thrown into the situation changes the situation a bit further away from the no-win scenario of being stomped by an overwhelmingly powerful opponent).

The "decoy" idea won't work against a commander (who can see stats), unless there's some sort of trick (another applicaiton of Foolamancy?) that can falsify a unit's stat display.

A few things, none of them all that crucial, really.

That's assuming that they don't search for him along the way - they don't know whether he'll go to cover, lie doggo until they go by, then resume his journey to FAQ. To simply assume he's headed back to GK could just be what he WANTS them to think, and they have to take that into consideration . . .

Although I strongly suspect that TV will make a quick grab for FAQ, allowing Jillian & Vinny to return to GK alone while Ceasar and the E Street band go prospecting. Why should TV re-ally themselves with a losing side when there's better prospects closer by?

I doubt seriously that Charlie will make any kind of move at all until it's clear who will come out on top. At this point, he REALLY wants Parson working for him, especially after seeing what Parson has been able to do thus far. How Parson engages the RCC during their turn will probably confirm this.
Since Charlie is a mercenary, as far as he's concerned, the real prize there is Parson and his Mathamancy artifact. Loot and possession of the city doesn't matter to him, and I strongly suspect that he would prefer to let Ansom die, and would move to ensure that Parson survives.

THOUGH . . . since Parson has already said that if things are going sour, he's going to send the casters to the Magic Kingdom, what's to prevent him from going along with them if it comes to that? After all, Jillian became a barbarian after FAQ fell, so could this be the origin story of Parson the Barbarian . . ?

Dunno . . . Bogroll's disguise is a classic 'Chekhovs Gun', but given that he can regenerate, whether he'll actually die is open to question.

[Lamech]

THOUGH . . . since Parson has already said that if things are going sour, he's going to send the casters to the Magic Kingdom, what's to prevent him from going along with them if it comes to that? After all, Jillian became a barbarian after FAQ fell, so could this be the origin story of Parson the Barbarian . . ?

I'm guessing he either plans to lead a hopeless defense against the coalition, casters are the only ones who can use the portal, or they couldn't get enough work to pay Parson's upkeep.

[SteveMB]

That's assuming that they don't search for him along the way - they don't know whether he'll go to cover, lie doggo until they go by, then resume his journey to FAQ.

He has a master Foolamancer with him. If he went to ground in some random hex, finding him would be extremely difficult.

Also, there are two reasons why going to ground may simply not be an option:

1. Stanley's ability to sustain units in the field (now that he's failed to reach Faq and start a new side there) may be limited.

2. Stanley's ego might not permit him to resort to skulking indefinitely (as opposed to making a stealthy approach to a definite goal).

[Sieggy]

He has a master Foolamancer with him. If he went to ground in some random hex, finding him would be extremely difficult.

Also, there are two reasons why going to ground may simply not be an option:

1. Stanley's ability to sustain units in the field (now that he's failed to reach Faq and start a new side there) may be limited.

2. Stanley's ego might not permit him to resort to skulking indefinitely (as opposed to making a stealthy approach to a definite goal).

But can TV take that chance? They know he still has six dwagons. If they vacate the gap, Stanley can slip through and proceed with whatever he was planning to do. And since GK hasn't fallen, he can remain an unknown quantity at this point.

So, I suspect that pure self interest will move the TV forces to search for the lost cities of FAQ, since if they grab them first, Stanley can't use them, of course . . . <ahem>

. . . leaving Jillian & Vinnie to return to GK . . . alone. They stand no chance against Stanley if they overtake him, so I suspect that Stanley will get to GK just in time to save the day / screw up one of Parson's plans, immediately followed by Jillian & Vinnie, which will just bollox things up in an incredibly dramatic fashion.

[plainsfox]

Actually, it leaves another fracture in the alliance. I can imagine Jillian racing Transylvito units to FAQ.

[kabbor]

'Ansom going ape and attacking whatever part of the wall is closest to him is just so predictable, Parson must have something rad prepared for it. It just seems like 'Ansom isn't adjusting to the different situation at all, and, unless he does soon, he will pay badly. Of course, he won't - it's the story's moral, after all - and 'Amster will have to keep on playing that card until it stops working.

So, this round: 'Ansom goes in, and spends the rest of the turn extricating himself, with the loss of more resources and good will. He will probably succeed in getting out, will consider the losses not unreasonable, and will thus learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

[Oslecamo]

So, this round: 'Ansom goes in, and spends the rest of the turn extricating himself, with the loss of more resources and good will. He will probably succeed in getting out, will consider the losses not unreasonable, and will thus learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

Well, last time with the wounded dwagons, frontline all out charge worked pretty well

[Manga Shoggoth]

'Ansom going ape and attacking whatever part of the wall is closest to him is just so predictable, Parson must have something rad prepared for it. It just seems like 'Ansom isn't adjusting to the different situation at all, and, unless he does soon, he will pay badly. Of course, he won't - it's the story's moral, after all - and 'Amster will have to keep on playing that card until it stops working.

So, this round: 'Ansom goes in, and spends the rest of the turn extricating himself, with the loss of more resources and good will. He will probably succeed in getting out, will consider the losses not unreasonable, and will thus learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

Or how about "Ansom attacking a wall that is largely defended by uncroaked members of his army whilst holding the arkenpliers that are known to dust uncroaked units with great efficiency."

[pendell]

'Ansom going ape and attacking whatever part of the wall is closest to him is just so predictable, Parson must have something rad prepared for it. It just seems like 'Ansom isn't adjusting to the different situation at all, and, unless he does soon, he will pay badly. Of course, he won't - it's the story's moral, after all - and 'Amster will have to keep on playing that card until it stops working.

So, this round: 'Ansom goes in, and spends the rest of the turn extricating himself, with the loss of more resources and good will. He will probably succeed in getting out, will consider the losses not unreasonable, and will thus learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

I must disagree.

The Sofa-king is allready sofa-king pulling out of the alliance. Ansom has only *one* shot at making this work.

He has to hit GK. Here. Now. He can't give his allies any time to think or do anything but follow his lead. To push forward and conquer or die.

Ansom will NOT retreat now. If he does, faced with yet another failure and heavily manned walls, that will be the end of the campaign. His allies will leave in one more turn, and he will be forced to return home and report failure.

My read is Ansom would rather die than admit failure.

So this is it: One last-ditch effort to take the walls. Ansom won't be stopped by anything but croaking. And those undead don't have the capability to do that, even with Wanda's bonus.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lamech]

So this is it: One last-ditch effort to take the walls. Ansom won't be stopped by anything but croaking. And those undead don't have the capability to do that, even with Wanda's bonus.

Why don't the undead have that capablity? So what if they all go down in one shot? They are probably all pretty strong and even if they are weak they should be able to do a little damage, and Ansom can only swing so fast, and he only has so much hp. As long as they get to attack he will go down.

[SteveMB]

Why don't the undead have that capablity? So what if they all go down in one shot? They are probably all pretty strong and even if they are weak they should be able to do a little damage, and Ansom can only swing so fast, and he only has so much hp. As long as they get to attack he will go down.

It depends on how the combat system works. It it's one where there's a defense value that subtracts from each individual hit, attacks below a certain level won't do boop all no matter how many of them hit.

Of course, GK does have a few relatively powerful units in addition to the new swarms of weak uncroaked infantry....

[DevilDan]

The more people talk about it, the more it seems that Ansom didn't think he had any other choice but to attack, leading the charge himself.

It's almost as if he was trapped/forced into it. Hmmm....

[SteveMB]

The more people talk about it, the more it seems that Ansom didn't think he had any other choice but to attack, leading the charge himself.

It's almost as if he was trapped/forced into it. Hmmm....

Heh. Parson did say that he wasn't sure what the Coalition would do when they saw all those Jetstone troops as uncroaked wall guardians, but I suspect that Ansom charging in (either because he's totally lost his temper or because he needed some dramatic success to hold his alliance together) was something he had in mind as a distinct possibility.

[pendell]

Why don't the undead have that capablity? So what if they all go down in one shot? They are probably all pretty strong and even if they are weak they should be able to do a little damage, and Ansom can only swing so fast, and he only has so much hp. As long as they get to attack he will go down.

If this were the real world I'd agree with you.

But this is a game world. My read is that Ansom -- a literal dragon slayer -- is the equivalent of a level-13, possibly epic-level paladin with an artifact weapon yet, facing off with level-0 warriors. Beings that, we were told two strips ago, are 'of the weakest kind and only last a few turns'. He can go through them like a lawnmower through grass.



Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Oslecamo]

It depends on how the combat system works. It it's one where there's a defense value that subtracts from each individual hit, attacks below a certain level won't do boop all no matter how many of them hit.

Of course, GK does have a few relatively powerful units in addition to the new swarms of weak uncroaked infantry....

We've seen dwagons being taken down by doombat swarms, wich are suposedly one of the weakest troops in Efworld.

As a rule of thumb, in wargames everything can suffer a death of a thousand stings, aka all attacks have a chance of dealing some damage no matter how tough your oponent is, and eventually Ansom will run out of HP.

Of course, there's also some randomness associated. Ansom is probably beting that lady luck will be on his side this time, and all the uncroacked will go down before his HP reaches 0.

[DevilDan]

We've seen dwagons being taken down by doombat swarms, wich are suposedly one of the weakest troops in Efworld.

As a rule of thumb, in wargames everything can suffer a death of a thousand stings, aka all attacks have a chance of dealing some damage no matter how tough your oponent is, and eventually Ansom will run out of HP.

Those doombats had bonuses that made them comparable to advanced infantry.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0125.html

"Rule of thumb" is a long way of saying "probably."

[tribble]

keep in mind that the jetstone/marbit forces in the tunnels routed immediately after the leadership (Webinar+Dora) croaked. "I'm a 9, you're a 5, and your GF's a 2." so that's a combined bonus of 7. a +7 bonus can be the difference between holding one's own, even advancing, and routing. Wanda's bonus to Uncroaked is specifically stated to be huge, italics included in the Klog. Doombats are the weakest unit, but with A warlord they turn into the equivalent of basic infantry. 1000+ basic infantry with a bonus that size? That's going to add up to some serious boop-whipping.

[SteveMB]

Those doombats had bonuses that made them comparable to advanced infantry.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0125.html

OTOH, Wanda's "huge" bonus may be comparable to that, all by itself.

It occurs to me that Ansom might not have considered the possibility of his opponent doing something so unusual as having a caster directly lead a stack. (As far as we know, he didn't get any reports from the forces in the tunnels, and anticipating out-of-the-box enemy strategems doesn't seem to be his strong suit -- understandable, given that he's used to fighting Stanley, but possibly about to bite him in the butt again).

[SteveD]

So, show-down between Wanda and Ansom next strip?

I can't decide if Ansom is going to survive this or not. But I'd hate to see Wanda killed...thus thats the most likely outcome.

[Godskook]

We've seen dwagons being taken down by doombat swarms, wich are suposedly one of the weakest troops in Efworld.

No we haven't. We've seen TV warlords with doombat escorts attack dwagons. We've never seen a dwagon go down to a stack of doombats. Hell, we've never even seen a dwagon croaked on camera by a TV warlord, except Vinny(we've seen them hit, but no evidence of croaking). I'm sure those doombats helped somehow, but it is entirely possible that all those doombat's help amounted to 'shielding'.

Also, Ansom is currently attacking leaderless stacks, which 'leaderless' is enough to change stack from worthless to dwagon slaying. He isn't going to start having real trouble until Parson sends something heavy at him, with a commander unit.

Of course, with 118 up, Ansom has shown that he can keep his swinging range clear of all uncroaked with no shown effort. That is bad for Parson. That means he dispatches uncroaked faster than that horde can surround him.

[DevilDan]

OTOH, Wanda's "huge" bonus may be comparable to that, all by itself.

It occurs to me that Ansom might not have considered the possibility of his opponent doing something so unusual as having a caster directly lead a stack. (As far as we know, he didn't get any reports from the forces in the tunnels, and anticipating out-of-the-box enemy strategems doesn't seem to be his strong suit -- understandable, given that he's used to fighting Stanley, but possibly about to bite him in the butt again).

Excellent point. This may be a necessary gambit for Parson to take.

[Oslecamo]

Also, Ansom is currently attacking leaderless stacks, which 'leaderless' is enough to change stack from worthless to dwagon slaying. He isn't going to start having real trouble until Parson sends something heavy at him, with a commander unit.

First, they aren't leaderless. They have Wanda and Hamster bonuses since they're all in the same city.

Now check the last strip again. The other coalition warlords fear Ansom will go down fast if he's not quickly reinforced.

Also, if you don't remember, this comic started with a warlord going down from a single crossbow bolt from basic infantry.

[tribble]

No we haven't. We've seen TV warlords with doombat escorts attack dwagons. We've never seen a dwagon go down to a stack of doombats. Hell, we've never even seen a dwagon croaked on camera by a TV warlord, except Vinny(we've seen them hit, but no evidence of croaking). I'm sure those doombats helped somehow, but it is entirely possible that all those doombat's help amounted to 'shielding'.

take a look at panel four. the brown dwagon is being attacked by doombats, but no visible warlord.