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2008-11-27, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Yeah, it was supposed to be far more action oriented due to the nature of Tobi's "skills" anyway; it allows for more interesting action.
[It'll become apparent roughly the moment the arc starts..or when you've seen any of Tobi's sprites really.]
Either way, the focus is on Noah right now anyway, Tobi'll become more important when I get to her story arc.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-27, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Now that we've seen more, I'm going to comment on what we've had so far:
1) I'm very interested in the story(ies). I found the second one riveting right away, while the first one I'm curious about, but a bit more meh. I realise it's a matter of tastes, though, and the good thing/bad thing with having 3 stories is that people will like different things.
So, I guess everybody will have a different favourite one, but less people might love all three.
2) I really like it graphically, but if I may say, I have some problems with your dialogues. It's not terrible, but there is something about the pacing of it that sems off to me, especially in monologues. I have no idea if others share this impression or how to work on it though, but I hope teling you helps anyway.
Finally, about the title... I'm thinking working on the "3" aspect might be the way to go. Like "threee-sided coin" or something like that.
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2008-11-27, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
I have some problems with your dialogues. It's not terrible, but there is something about the pacing of it that sems off to me, especially in monologues. I have no idea if others share this impression or how to work on it though, but I hope teling you helps anyway.
I may add that English isn't my first language, this may work a bit against my abillity to write realistic dialouge if the problem lies in that specific aspect of it.
If you can find anything specific I could improve/pay attention to for the dialogue I'd appreciate hearing it though.
1) I'm very interested in the story(ies). I found the second one riveting right away, while the first one I'm curious about, but a bit more meh.
If you found Burk's story more interesting/compelling than Noah's I'd probably have a problem due to the fact that story is the big thing driving Noah's story.
As I explained before [at least, I think I did] starting with Burk's story was greatly to take advantage of the lighthearted humour and having a rather "easy" introduction into the whole comic, although I gotta try keeping the initial expectations intact as I continue, Noah's story relies far more on people wanting to know what on earth is going on [especially when it comes to things like "joy"] rather than an individual comic being funny enough to make it interesting.
I realise it's a matter of tastes, though, and the good thing/bad thing with having 3 stories is that people will like different things.
So, I guess everybody will have a different favourite one, but less people might love all three.
I realise that there's a disadvantage to the fact that by having 3 very different comic styles essentialy be part of the same story [in the larger picture at least] in that I'm decreasing the number of people who'll love all of it while appealing to more people on categories.
But I found the 3 very distinct stories concept really essential to the comic as a way of doing something I haven't seen done in this same way before, although I'm sure I'll make occasional slipups in terms of originality I do think that an unique concept remains something interesting and fun to have.
I mean, not to try and take away from the severity of any mistakes I made or will make, but I'm a guy who'se never gotten past roughly 7 pages on any comics I've attempted in the past [and they were often terrible ].
Next to that, I've made all pages for this comic [14 so far] within 4 days, although I'm not sure what the regular update speed is for comics on this forum; you'd probably expect me to have 3-5 comics done at this point [no comments on quality.]
There's one big reason I suddenly decided to just go through with this and make the comic already, I've been planning and plotting to get the story just right for over a month, and had the idea for this comic more than two years now [though the initial one was different in roughly every way imaginable]
The big thing I realised is that no matter how deep, profound or interesting a story I could think of, at the end of the day just thinking about it and doodling sprites won't help me improve.
I've got a very big advantage in "knowing what I want" and having thought long and deep about things like presentation, story and art style; but I'm honestly losing my "webcomic virginity" in a public sense here, so the comic is far far from the quality I hope to achieve when I'm more of a uhh... webcomic veteran I guess?
I mean, I'll be honest, with most new pages I've made so far I was really scratching my head wondering if what I was making was ... enjoyable would be the word, I think.
Is the pacing right on this page? Is it okay to have em just tied up like that in the next comic already? How long should I wait till Burk exposes himself as completely oblivious, someone already called him a deus ex machina.
Noah's story made this twice as bad, because without the humour of Burk's storyline it's far easier to mess up big time.
I wanted the first two pages in Noah's story to be both creepy/frightening & at the same time a way to raise interest in a supposed enemy almost immediatly, with some more exposure on the aftermath [and how it relates to Noah] in the comics immediatly after that.
But it'd be easy to mess up here as well [...Have I jumped the shark after 10 pages already..implied necrophilia and rape go pretty far, is the joyous guy creepy looking enough? it'd ruin the setting if he looked goofy to the point where people'd laugh at a scene that's pretty much as horrible as it gets.]
The last page also had it's problem of having a very big "talking heads" ratio to it, which could be seen as a lazy cop out in telling the story rather than enjoyable; above that, would people think this page actually adds anything? it hardly exposes any real new information, it just shows a random dude sucking up to Noah being captain obvious.
[this post must be mega huge, here's noah to compensate: ]
Either way, I kind of forgot why I decided to make the last half of my post again, but I do intend to raise the quality of my comic as time goes on; the only question is if I can manage.
Oh well, C&C is appreciated but try to be constructive, I'm quite familiar with my flaws so I'm actually far far more interested in ideas on how to fix them.
Finally, about the title... I'm thinking working on the "3" aspect might be the way to go. Like "threee-sided coin" or something like that.
I'm not sure why I'm bad at titles, I guess it's cause I'm undecisive.
I'd like to have a cool title like "Watership Down", that book/movie had the coolest title ever.
It was about rabbits though, not ... well, whatever my comic is about.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-27, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Wow. Big post.
I think it's excellent. First-time comics tend to receive pity and never receive this much attention. Based purely on the fact that you have 5 pages in 4 days as well as only good things to say about your comics, I'd say you're doing it right.
As for the English not being your first language, you've got good grammar skills, and I've only spotted a couple of errors so far. As I said before, I'm willing to be an editor. Feel free to PM/email me scripts or finished comics, and I'll be happy to look over them and make sure your grammar is correct. I'm not the best, but I'm willing to help.
As for plot and pacing, I think it's about good. There hasn't exactly been a ton revealed so far, and Burk's story left off at a fair point. It gave a good glimpse of his character, as well as setting him off at a good starting point.
As for Noah, it seems dark, but it seems also all the better to draw in interest and get the point across.
Whatever it is you're doing now, keep it up. It's working fine.The artist formerly known as Tired N' Drowzy, master of puns.
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2008-11-27, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Here's a title for you: The Pixels of the World.
I just thought of that because there are pixels and a world. Pretty simple and a little stupid.
What do you think?Last edited by Green-Shirt Q; 2008-11-27 at 09:25 PM.
AVATAR BATTLE ROYALE!
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2008-11-27, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
The latest comic made me think of Death Note, Noah's kind of a cross, from a cosmetic point of view, between L and Light now that I think of it.
Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)
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2008-11-28, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Ok, a few more specific remarks about the writing. It's hard because with drawings you can point out things ("I think his nose is off") but with writings, you mostly end up saying how YOU would have written it, if I'm making sense.
1) Why did the killer get his latest victim to the hospital? In the strip before that, he said she was dead. Why would you bring a corpse to a hospital? That one just didn't make sense to me.
2) "Incidentally this is not [...] joy group" this page's "dialogue" was... weird to say the least. Too long, too complicated, without any comas... I had to re-read it a few times to make sense of it. I kept losing track in the middle.
Studying it, I /think/ it comes from the fact that your sentence is basically "3 because 2 because 1". And 3 in itself is complicated ("facing capital punishment at the level of public execution") and I'm not even sure what it means. Wouldn't "facing a public execution" work just as well, or am I missing something?
3) In the following pannel, you start with "it is the 6th...", while the pannel before says "incidentally, this is not the first...". So the guy is saying on the radio "It's not the first case of (blah blah). It is the 6th case of (blah blah). It's a weird repetition. I would suggest removing the first one.
As aresult, it would become something like "The mass-murderer will face the capital punishment as a result of..." and so on (although I'd still work on the rest of the sentence, not sure exactly how) and then "This is the sixth documented case..." like it originally was.
After all, if this is the 6th case, and all murderers were famous and known, I'm sure everybody has heard about the first 5 cases. Startin with "incidentally, it has happened before" when the very same channel probably talked about the previous cases already is weird. The radio isn't talking to the reader, but to their audience. The audience knows it's not the first case, but they might need a reminded that it's the sixth one (plus, journalists like giving numbers like that).
4) "It remains interesting" doesn't quite sit for me. "More and more interesting" is more common and not using it just feels weird.
As for his "joy" comment, if he means the club, I think it should be capitalised.
Next comic:
5) "perhaps I was the only person looking?" > "looking" seems an odd choice of wrods to me. I would have said "the only one paying attention"
6) Noah's monologue seems weird. I realise he's supposed to be wordy, but it seems too much for me. If he always speaks like that he's going to be pretty hard to follow.
7) Changing the text's size seems weird. I realise you're adjusting it to fit the space you have, but smaller text will seem to be wispered and bigger text to be yelled. You should probably stick to a single size unless the characters ARE yelling or whispering.
... I think that's it. Now comments on the story itself:
I really want to know more about the Joy group. I don't see them as a "villain" right now, because they're just convincing killers to surrender, so they're freeing the world of said killers. It's basically like arresting them or calling the police on them, only more mysterious.
However, it does seem they're doing something to convince them. Like some torture or mental control. So yeah, it's very intriguing. And the joy guy is even creepier than the mass-murderer, so yeah...
(Btw, he didn't make me laugh at all. It's the right amount of creepiness to be really, really scary and not at all comical).
Oh, and another text-related comment: the rapist uses "make love", which isn't really used outside of, well, love relationship. As you said you're not a native speaker, I'm just checking he's doing it on purpose for some reason. otherwise, it's really not a word I'd expect a rapist to use.
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2008-11-28, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Oi,
Ok, a few more specific remarks about the writing. It's hard because with drawings you can point out things ("I think his nose is off") but with writings, you mostly end up saying how YOU would have written it, if I'm making sense.
1) Why did the killer get his latest victim to the hospital? In the strip before that, he said she was dead. Why would you bring a corpse to a hospital? That one just didn't make sense to me.
When you combine the fact that it was in a dark alleyway and he didn't bother checking her pulse or anything there's no guarantee he was right when he figured she died already.
It may be a bit counter intuitive if you read "she's dead"-type of dialogue in the "aye, I am slain" sense where it always means someone is dead though, I'll agree there.
2) "Incidentally this is not [...] joy group" this page's "dialogue" was... weird to say the least. Too long, too complicated, without any comas... I had to re-read it a few times to make sense of it. I kept losing track in the middle.
Studying it, I /think/ it comes from the fact that your sentence is basically "3 because 2 because 1". And 3 in itself is complicated ("facing capital punishment at the level of public execution") and I'm not even sure what it means. Wouldn't "facing a public execution" work just as well, or am I missing something?
I'll try to avoid the because because type of storytelling in the future.
3) In the following pannel, you start with "it is the 6th...", while the pannel before says "incidentally, this is not the first...". So the guy is saying on the radio "It's not the first case of (blah blah). It is the 6th case of (blah blah). It's a weird repetition. I would suggest removing the first one.
As aresult, it would become something like "The mass-murderer will face the capital punishment as a result of..." and so on (although I'd still work on the rest of the sentence, not sure exactly how) and then "This is the sixth documented case..." like it originally was.
After all, if this is the 6th case, and all murderers were famous and known, I'm sure everybody has heard about the first 5 cases. Startin with "incidentally, it has happened before" when the very same channel probably talked about the previous cases already is weird. The radio isn't talking to the reader, but to their audience. The audience knows it's not the first case, but they might need a reminded that it's the sixth one (plus, journalists like giving numbers like that).
The fact that I adressed it twice is kind of sloppy though, I'll agree there.
4) "It remains interesting" doesn't quite sit for me. "More and more interesting" is more common and not using it just feels weird.
As for his "joy" comment, if he means the club, I think it should be capitalised.
5) "perhaps I was the only person looking?" > "looking" seems an odd choice of wrods to me. I would have said "the only one paying attention"
6) Noah's monologue seems weird. I realise he's supposed to be wordy, but it seems too much for me. If he always speaks like that he's going to be pretty hard to follow.
7) Changing the text's size seems weird. I realise you're adjusting it to fit the space you have, but smaller text will seem to be wispered and bigger text to be yelled. You should probably stick to a single size unless the characters ARE yelling or whispering.
I do have an idea how to represent whispering that may require a slight change in my text though, as greying it out often leads to the idea of whispering. [but it's rather grey already, so the neutral text has to be darker]
I really want to know more about the Joy group. I don't see them as a "villain" right now, because they're just convincing killers to surrender, so they're freeing the world of said killers. It's basically like arresting them or calling the police on them, only more mysterious.
However, it does seem they're doing something to convince them. Like some torture or mental control. So yeah, it's very intriguing. And the joy guy is even creepier than the mass-murderer, so yeah...
Just hope it works out.
(Btw, he didn't make me laugh at all. It's the right amount of creepiness to be really, really scary and not at all comical).
Oh, and another text-related comment: the rapist uses "make love", which isn't really used outside of, well, love relationship. As you said you're not a native speaker, I'm just checking he's doing it on purpose for some reason. otherwise, it's really not a word I'd expect a rapist to use.
[And yes, I know, I just said I didn't want to make a scene with implied necrophilic rape non-profane, sue me. ]
The latest comic made me think of Death Note, Noah's kind of a cross, from a cosmetic point of view, between L and Light now that I think of it.
The cosmetics thing is kind of funny though, because like Burk [as my sig may reveal] he'll change outfits at least somewhere in the story, this is just his "neutral" starting outfit.
I'm sure he'll end up "different" in appearance from Light/L relatively soon in his story.
[at least I hope so, the last thing I want is ending up with a comic that feels like a total ripoff. ]
Wow. Big post.
I think it's excellent. First-time comics tend to receive pity and never receive this much attention. Based purely on the fact that you have 5 pages in 4 days as well as only good things to say about your comics, I'd say you're doing it right.
And the attention, not to sound arrogant, was kind of expected; I've waited a long time to finally start a webcomic shown on a public forum like this because I really wanted to get it "right" [enough] before starting one, although I've still got trouble with things like dialogue I've had a lot of preparation. [and hey, the graphics have good appeal in my experience, the best way to get readers to actually read is for them to notice your comic, graphics can be essential here [I'll admit, it's not necessary.]]
As for plot and pacing, I think it's about good. There hasn't exactly been a ton revealed so far, and Burk's story left off at a fair point. It gave a good glimpse of his character, as well as setting him off at a good starting point.
chapter 1. introduction of story's hero, foreshadowing of "initial plot"
The first chapters are meant to give readers a quick and short but thorough idea of how the story's main character works, it obviously won't work as a 100% portrayal of any of the characters [this'd only indicate a lack of depth] but does show their primary personality points.
Next to this the first chapter is meant to introduce a relatively clear plot point for the characters to work towards and in a way, to show the initial trigger to the rest of their story.
For Burk this one was relatively simple; it was his own will to become a hero, his part in the story is entirely because he wants to be part of it.
Noah and Tobi will end up with entirely different "reasons" for becoming part of the underlying storyline that attaches all of their plots together, but I hope I can make these clear as it goes on.
As for Noah, it seems dark, but it seems also all the better to draw in interest and get the point across.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
Double post for update, hope I didn't make any spelling errors this time
Sudden change of direction in Noah's story, let's see where this'll go.
[for those who are wondering, because I've already gotten one weird comment about it, Hevel's reflection is how it -should- look, Noah's reflection from his own perspective is really faint compared to an ordinary reflection.
May be unnecessary to point this out, but just to avoid questions about it. ]
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
That explains a lot. Noah is a vampire hunter
Hevel has something strange on his face. Is that a bandage, a toothpick, or what? It's just bugging me for some reason.The artist formerly known as Tired N' Drowzy, master of puns.
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2008-11-28, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 14, spread the joy!
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2008-11-28, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
He has a chunk of bone that he uses as a toothpick, he's cool like that.
And although I won't fully claim that the comics won't have "vampires" Noah's definitely not a vampire hunter, and the [near]-lack of reflection is in no way related to the vampire mythos.
[regarding not claiming the comic won't have "vampires", there's a lot of things I won't have in the traditional sense, like elves as a race or vampires as these mystical creatures; but a lot of fantasy races or creatures may end up as some form of inspiration for events later on in the comic. ]
It looks like a cigarette to me, although it disappears in Comic 14, panel 4 and the last panel of Comic 15. This might be an error on the character portrait though.
First panel, lowercase letter at the start of a sentence.Last edited by Neoriceisgood; 2008-11-28 at 12:09 PM.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Just thought I'd say that:
1) You don't need to go back and change the previous webcomics, the specific comments were more because it's a lot easier to name examples. If you're not writing scripts in advance, I suggest maybe trying to write down the whole update dialogue/monologue in a word processor or something and reading it all together? You might notice some things when reading it all at once as opposed to it being separate.
2) The problem with the monologues is indeed the length and complexity of the sentences. They usually have several propositions, which individually are also complex.
(A proposition being part of a sentence. For instance "I think that you're right" has two propositions "I think" and "you're right", linked by "that". Now if you turn it ino "I think that you're right to believe that this person was..." and so on, you can end up with a very long sentence that gets harder to follow with each proposition, because the subject changes from one to the next.)
I'm not good at making short sentences either, but I think that if you add more punctuation (comas, colons, periods) it will be easier to read even with the vocabulary he uses.
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2008-11-28, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Your first fanart
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2008-11-28, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Last edited by Neoriceisgood; 2008-11-28 at 01:09 PM.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
I like it =D
Might wanna change the background to a playground color to make it fit in.
I can trace it if you wish.Last edited by Wreckingrocc; 2008-11-28 at 01:11 PM.
The artist formerly known as Tired N' Drowzy, master of puns.
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2008-11-28, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Last edited by Prime32; 2008-11-28 at 02:45 PM.
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2008-11-28, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Thanks! *uses that one*
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
I've been following this comic a bit, and all I have to say is
Awesome.Dark Souls Remake in a Nutshell
Don't mess with a Primarch
Sometimes I make avatars too. Shoot me a PM if interested.
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2008-11-28, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 15, spread the joy!
Self reflection about ... his own reflection.
Should be the last comic in this room, not sure how soon I can get to the next comic as it'll require ..uhh..
Well, more.
[fun fact: this comic single handedly gives Noah the largest set of expressions so far]
*edit* forgot to have him scratch his head in the last two portraits, may change that in the future. ]Last edited by Neoriceisgood; 2008-11-28 at 05:47 PM.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 16, spread the joy!
These are great.
But their hands seem too big. Unless you mean for them to be exaggerated like that.
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2008-11-28, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 16, spread the joy!
I mean to exaggerate em, they're a pretty good way of showing poses but it'd look lame/uninteresting if I showed em at normal size in the sprites.
Although it's quite noticable that they're way too big, the large hands are a good way to really make their poses seem more lively and interesting.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-28, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 16, spread the joy!
I suspect you'd have trouble getting any detail into 16 pixels anyway.
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2008-11-29, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 16, spread the joy!
Page 17!
Noah judges by appearance, he's cool like that.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-29, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 17, spread the joy!
I've found something creepier than the Joy group.
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2008-11-29, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 17, spread the joy!
Ooo, mysterious ¬_¬
Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)
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2008-11-29, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-11-29, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 17, spread the joy!
Last edited by Neoriceisgood; 2008-11-29 at 11:42 AM.
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero
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2008-11-29, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 17, spread the joy!
Noah's face in the first two panels is the best ever.
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2008-11-29, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Pixelart webcomic: comic 17, spread the joy!
Page 18 !
Noah's story is definitely the prime example of morality.
"I can break the law because I'm part of the goverment" for the win.
sorry for this page being uneventful. [but hey, at least you got two today..?]
My 100% original pixelart fantasy webcomic, Hero oh Hero.
Webcomic discussion thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7-Hero-Oh-Hero