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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Magic Missile Build?

    So yeah, I've been thinking.
    To me, a magic missile is a weak, but solid spell - especially at low levels. As long as your enemy doesn't have Shield or the like up, it's essentially an auto-hit. Useful for taking down those last HPs of a tough opponent, I guess.

    But I've rarely seen it used, which is kind of sad, because if you if you found a way to up the damage on it, it's a solid damage output.

    I've been looking for ways to raise your caster level for some boosts. There's a metamagic feat that removes the damage limits, so at level 19, you could be having 10d4+10 damage with only SR able to block it.
    When you add Arcane thesis and Spell thematics (You get to pick 1 spell per spell level to cast at +1 CL, and turning all of your other spells into a magic missile thema is just icing on the cake), you get a +3 CL bonus, for 11d4+11.

    What I'm asking advice for:
    - Other ways to raise Caster Level?
    - Prestige classes? I think there's a PrC that focuses on your choice for Arcane Thesis, and there's the Argent Savant. (Unfortunately, +1 damage for -1 CL isn't what I'm looking for, although I can negate that with Practiced Spellcaster). There's also a MM specialist in Dragon, but...that's Dragon.
    - A way around the Shield spell and everything else that blocks MM. I'd be pretty disappointed if there's not some item or PrC that bypasses that immunity.

    Note: I was planning on putting this earlier in this post, but yes, I know this is a suboptimal choice. Battlefield control, buffing, etc.
    It just seems like a fun concept.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I remember a class called Magic Missile Mage from a Dragon mag. It was a 5 lvl class that focused entirley on MM. Does anyone else remember that?

    :edit: After a quick googleisation... the class is called Force Missile Mage.
    And using the magic of internets, here's a quick copy/paste from the crystalkeep forum.

    Oh yeah, and the only reason I remembered this is because I think that the theme you're going for is very cool.

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    Force MIssle Mage
    Requirements: Concentration 9 ranks, Spellcraft 9 ranks, Feat: combat casting, Ability to cast Magic Missle once per day

    1st LVL: Base Attack +0, F+0/R+0/W+2, Bouse Missle, Still Missle, No extra spells per day
    2nd LVL: Base Attack+1, F+0/R+0/W+3, Energy missle, Swift Shield, +1 lvl of existing spellcasting class
    3rd LVL: Base Attack+1, F+1/R+1/W+3. Overpowering Missle, +1 lvl of existing spellcasting class
    4th LVL: Base Attack+2, F+1/R+1/W+4, Reflective Shield, +1 lvl of existing spellcasting class
    5th LVL: Bast Attack+2, F+!/R+!/W+4, Bonus Missle. +1 lvl of existing spellcasting class

    Weapon and Marmor Proficiency: Force missle mage gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Spells: a force missle mage continues training in magic as he gains levels. At each level after the 1sr, the force missle mage gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character has levels in more than one spellcasting class before becoming a force missle mage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of froce missle mage for the purposes of determining spells per day.

    Bonus Missle: At 1st level, a force missle mage gains increased mastery over his spell of choice. Every time he casts magic missle he creates an additional missle, even if this extra missle exceeds the normal maximum of five missles that the spell normally allows. Thus a 1st-level force missle mage/6th-level wizard creates five migice missles, while a 1st-level force missle mage/8th-level wizard produces six missiles.
    At 5th level, the force missle mage benefits from an additional bonus missile. This means that a high-level force missle mage can create up to seven missiles with a single casting of magic missile.

    Still Missile (Ex): All of the force missile mage's magic missle spells lack a somatic component. He casts magic missile as if using the Still Spell feat but without an increase in spell level

    Energy Missile (Ex): a force missile mage becomes intimately attuned to teh energies that compose the spell magic missle and may alter them significant ways. Starting at 2nd level, a fice missle mage may add either the acid, cold, electricity, or fire discriptor to any magic missle he casts

    Swift Shield (Sp): A foce missile mage realizes the need to defend himself against the magic missiles of other spellcasters. A 2nd-level force missile mage can cast shield once per day as an immediate action. (an immediate action is like a free action, but only one can be made per round.) This spell is cast in addition to the force mage's usual number of spells per day and at the force missile mage's highest caster level.

    Overpowering Missile: At 3rd level, the fprce missile mage's magic missle spells become especially potent, breaking through spell resistance with the spell magic missil. This benefit only applies to magic missile spells he casts.
    In addition, a force missile mage's magic missiles might penetrate shiels spells and brooches of shielding. Against such protections, the force missile mage makes a caster level check with a DC equal to the caster level, int eh cast of shield, or DC 20, in the case of the brooch.

    Reflective Shield (Sp): At 4th level, a force missile mage can reflect the spell magic missile. For the purposes of being affected by magic missile, a force missile mage is constantly treated as being under the effect of the spell spell turning, thus reflecting offensive magic missiles back at their caster. If the caster is protected by the shield spell or the Brooch of shielding, these reflected magic missiles are negated as normal. Missiles reflected back against a caster who also has spell turning in effect require the force missle mage to roll on teh spell turning mishap chart (PHB page 283)
    Last edited by Decoy69; 2008-11-23 at 09:03 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I remember a class called Magic Missile Mage from a Dragon mag. It was a 5 lvl class that focused entirley on MM. Does anyone else remember that?
    Ninja'd by the first post in the thread. Impressive.

    But me and Dragon have...Issues. (Namely that I think a lot of the things it spits out is bogus, which is why a lot of DMs don't allow it.)

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Well, you already know about the force missile mage, but it bears mentioning twice. (You could probably convince your DM by telling him how suboptimal it is...)

    Other than that: The main way to improve Magic Missiles is by using metamagic... Arcane Thesis is a no brainer... Incantatrix helps tons.
    As for actual metamagic... Twin, Empower, Maximize and Repeat are all good.

    Another way to increase damage is by using a different spell altogether.
    Mordenkainen's Force Missiles are a good choice (It's also located in spell compendium, if you're worried about using WotC site stuff.) Spell Compendium also has Chain Missiles, which also work well.

    EDIT: WOAH TRIPLE NINJA'D
    Edit:
    Me and Dragon have... Issues
    Bad pun alert.
    Last edited by jcsw; 2008-11-23 at 09:06 AM.
    Sig'd

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Have you considered Orb of Force? You need a way to scale the damage better just to make it decent. Keep in mind that this is the spell that deals 1d4+1 at a level where most Fighters deal 2d6+4.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    The reason why I was specifically thinking of Magic missile is because of its good range, and the fact that it doesn't need an attack roll or allows a save. So I can understand why it deals less damage.

    Metamagic is of course the way to go, thanks for reminding me of that. (I'm ashamed that in my search for ways to increase CL, I didn't even think of that )
    Enhance spell is what I was looking for. 5 extra missiled on the damage cap.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    There's a metamagic feat that removes the damage limits,
    Never heard of it.

    If you mean Enhance Spell, that's an Epic feat.

    Anyway, some thoughts:

    Feats and items:
    Invisible Needle (CMag) or Blade of Force (CMag) gives you a +1 competence bonus on caster level.

    Robe of Arcane Might (MIC, 21000) also provides a +1 competence bonus (and a +4 armor bonus).

    Arcanist's Gloves (MIC, 500) provide a +2 unnamed bonus on caster level on a 1st level spell 2/day.

    A Ring of Arcane Might (MIC, 20000) and the Orange Prism ioun stone both provide a +1 unnamed bonus to caster level.

    A Third Eye - Penetrate (MIC, 8000) provides a +2 on checks to overcome spell resistance. With +4 from Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration and higher caster level in general you should be blasting through SR no problem.

    Don't underestimate the argent savant - it's +1 per damage die, so it can add more than 1 damage, especially if the DM allows it to be empowered along with the regular damage.

    Spells:

    The Spell Matrix spells (lv5,7,9, SpC) let you fire off more MMs at high levels.

    Arcane Spellsurge (lv7, DragMagic) allows a sorcerer to fire two spells per round without Quicken Spell.

    Arcane Fusion (lv5 sorc, CMag) also lets you cast two spells as a standard action.

    Use Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability (lv6, SpC) to get even more missiles in the air at once.

    Chain Missile (lv3, SpC) is Magic Missile's more powerful big brother. Higher damage cap, secondary targets. Still can't beat shield.


    Once you start looking there are a lot of force spells out there. You can stick to a theme and still damage opponents immune to Magic Missile.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Fel drain metamagic feat. Give negative levels to people.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Wow, that helped a lot. Thanks.

    And fell-drain is indeed something that I had in mind with this. Especially with the multiple targets.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Use Mordenkainen's Force Missiles cause it's funny and scales better.

    (Flash Frost-Snowcasting Force Missiles... It may not be useful but it's cool.)
    Sig'd

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Let's see:

    Miss Sile, Mage Guild 'Enforcer'

    "Frank Delroi, I presume?" the frail woman asked.
    - "Yup, that's me. What'll it be, dear?"
    The middle-aged man who was sitting at the small table was about the size of an ox.
    "You've owed the Guild money for quite some time. We rarely make much of an issue of these things, but it's been well over 5 years now. We'd like it back. Now."
    - "Now listen here lady," the man said and stood up, towering over the woman, "you and your Guild mates..."
    Frank had no idea what happened then, but the next moment, he was knocked into the wall, several bones broken, bits of him scorched, and others frozen.
    "I wasn't asking."


    Human Evoker6/Force Missile Mage5/Argent Savant1
    Add AS (for flavor and the force theme) at subsequent levels.

    At level 11:
    BAB: +2 (Who needs BAB?)
    HD: 11d4+Con
    Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +12

    Skills: Maxed out Spellcraft, Concentration and Knowledge(Arcana).
    Stats: Typical Wizard. High Int, then Dex and Con.
    You won't be needing Ranged Attack rolls very often, AS2 offers a boost to Mage Armor and FMM2 lets you cast Shield 1/day as an Immeadiate action, so Miss Sile can afford to have a slightly lower Dex in low PB.

    Feats:
    1: Combat Casting (Prereq for FMM)
    H: Spell Thematics: Force (Most notably pick Magic Missile and Chain Missile as thematic spells)
    3: Practiced Spellcaster (Or any other metamagic feat, fell drain for instance)
    6: Blade of Force
    9: Arcane Thesis: Chain Missile
    Continued: Take some good Metamagic feats.
    If Flaws are allowed, Miss Sile should take Empower Spell feat.

    Miss Sile dresses Fashionably in revealing clothing, as any female fantasy character shoul - regardless from the weather conditions.
    She also posseses a Ring of Arcane Might aside from the typical Mage Guild gadgets. Lately, she's been saving up for a Robe of Arcane Might.

    Her Magic Missile is fully maxed out at 7d4+14, and breaks through SR and with a successful CL check (1d20+16) also breaks through Shield.
    Her Chain Missile deals 10d4+20 (ruling that the FMM features also affect this spell), with identical effects.
    She can change the missiles' damage type to any element.

    This isn't the highest damage output available, but it's quite solid, since the only thing that can stop it is a high-level caster's Shield.
    Suboptimal: I guess.
    Fun: Yup! ^^
    Last edited by Mephit; 2008-11-23 at 11:37 AM.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    If Flaws are allowed, Miss Sile should take Heighten Spell so she can cast her Missiles at all spell levels! (One trick pony, what do you mean?)
    There's really no point to heighten spell if the focus is all on spells that don't allow saves. You can use any spell slot to cast a spell of that level or lower without heighten. Heighten just lets you boost the DC by using a higher level slot.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipse View Post
    There's really no point to heighten spell if the focus is all on spells that don't allow saves. You can use any spell slot to cast a spell of that level or lower without heighten. Heighten just lets you boost the DC by using a higher level slot.
    Well, I'm forced to agree with you after checking the rulebooks. I'll edit it out. First time I heard of that, though.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I'd suggest adding Explosive Spell so that she could actually blast Frank back, but that'd give a Reflex save and thus negate the point of a no-save spell...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    I'd suggest adding Explosive Spell so that she could actually blast Frank back, but that'd give a Reflex save and thus negate the point of a no-save spell...
    Well, getting blast into a wall sounds a lot cooler than getting hit with 10 missiles and dropping to the floor.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Unfortunately...

    Explosive Spell can be applied only to spells that allow Reflex saves and affect an area (a cone, cylinder, line, or burst). An explosive spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Any force mage should have the Thunderlance spell from the spell compendium.
    Funny, I always figured I'd be killed by a paladin.
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I am greatly amused by this thread. I shall have to have an NPC in my campaign do this.

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    Post Re: Magic Missile Build?

    How about adding levels of Factotum for extra standart actions and Magic Missile SLA?
    (not that you gain a lot of damage from higher CL, but you could be shooting a crapton of missiles per turn: roleplay it as if you're shooting them from both hands)
    This is a litany of lost things,
    a canon of possessions dispossessed,
    a photograph, an old address, a key.
    It is a list of words to memorize
    or to forget – of amo, amas, amat,
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    in which the final sentence has been spoken.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I'd add in all the spell suggestions along with Miss Sile's spellbook and her preferred spells, and maybe even her stats, but that's pretty time consuming.

    At level 12, Empower Spell is a must.
    15d4+30 as a 4th level spell (Chain missile+Empower+Arcane Thesis) is equal to a delayed blast fireball cast by a 20th level caster.

    Unfortunately, I don't have access to the much-appraised Factotum class.

    Higher levels should focus on increasing the amount of castings, since in 4 levels, you'll have reached the maximum damage, which seriously decreases the usefulness of the build.
    Last edited by Mephit; 2008-11-23 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    I'd add in all the spell suggestions along with Miss Sile's spellbook and her preferred spells, and maybe even her stats, but that's pretty time consuming.

    At level 12, Empower Spell is a must.
    15d4+30 as a 4th level spell (Chain missile+Empower+Arcane Thesis) is equal to a delayed blast fireball cast by a 20th level caster.
    Roughly what, 70 damage?

    I'm pretty sure lower level melee classes can do that.
    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-11-23 at 02:24 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    Roughly what, 70 damage?

    I'm pretty sure lower level melee classes can do that.
    From Long Range, and no attack roll?

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I had, but have now lost a home brew feat that allowed you to cast Magic Missile, and have them hang around ready to leap at opposing magic user's incase they attempted spells. Hooray for forcing Con checks. It did tend to be annoying, especially when the DM had his casters loaded for bear.
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    From Long Range, and no attack roll?
    Raging barbarian mongoose leap attack?

    Just saying that you should get the damage higher...
    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-11-23 at 02:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    I could have sworn I've read somewhere an ability/feat or whatever that allows you to change the damage die of a spell. Am I remembering correctly? If I am that would be perfect for this.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    Raging barbarian mongoose leap attack?

    Just saying that you should get the damage higher...
    From 840 ft. away? Yeah, no encounter will start that far away, just demonstrating that range might become an issue here. Not to mention that against anything out of melee reach, that build loses some of its effectiveness.

    And as I said, this is in no way a build for the sake of optimizing.



    (...Did I also mention Miss Sile is the Guild's sniper? She bought a spyglass!)

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Can you Sneak Attack with a magic missile?

    because if you can, you could pick up a level of Rogue and Craven feat.
    also, if Skirmish works with MM...
    This is a litany of lost things,
    a canon of possessions dispossessed,
    a photograph, an old address, a key.
    It is a list of words to memorize
    or to forget – of amo, amas, amat,
    the conjugations of a dead tongue
    in which the final sentence has been spoken.
    © Dana Gioia

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by SydneyLosstarot View Post
    Can you Sneak Attack with a magic missile?

    because if you can, you could pick up a level of Rogue and Craven feat.
    also, if Skirmish works with MM...
    With some DM fiat, maybe. But there's no attack roll involved in a MM, so I doubt it.

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    aw, "specific parts of the target can't be singled out"

    what a pity really
    This is a litany of lost things,
    a canon of possessions dispossessed,
    a photograph, an old address, a key.
    It is a list of words to memorize
    or to forget – of amo, amas, amat,
    the conjugations of a dead tongue
    in which the final sentence has been spoken.
    © Dana Gioia

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Missile Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by SydneyLosstarot View Post
    Can you Sneak Attack with a magic missile?

    because if you can, you could pick up a level of Rogue and Craven feat.
    also, if Skirmish works with MM...
    You can only sneak attack with spells that require you to make an attack roll.

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