Magic Missile Build?

[only1doug]

Edit:
PS There's a set of gloves in the MIC (Gaunlets of Starry Sky, Pg204) that allow you to spont any spell to a MM. Sounds stupid, until you remember that Blades of Fire is a 2nd Lvl Swift spell, so you can get of two sets of missiles a round. (Gloves work 3/day, plus emit Light spell at will. Cost 1100gp)

sorry paul, sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot to cast magic missile won't give you the cast time of the sacrificed spell, it would still be a standard casting of magic missile.

the gloves are still nice for a magic missile focused caster, he could prepare more utility spells and spontaneously convert them to magic missiles as needed.

[Vinotaur]

Hi

Seen a lot of complicated suggestions here, but I think the simplest was the Warmage.

Shield will always overcome MM, even with the extra Edge/Extra Edge ablities, so it's always good to have other options. Warmage does this. Also, 'flavour' your character with the 'Advanced Learning', you can go Argent Savant for even more damage. You're also better armoured, better armed and a Spontaneous Caster to boot...

My suggestion:
3) Tenser's Floating Disk
6) Leomund's Tiny Hut
11) Wall of Force

You now qualify for Arg. Sav. You do lose 1 CL, but each MM does extra point of damage, and you get +2 to hit with all your Force attacks. (Orb of Force, etc). Dont forget that attacking from within a Leomund's Hut you count as an Invisible Attacker. (Unless target is in there with you). Of course, the globe is a Fireball magnet....

Eg, Int 20 Warmage/AS with Extra Edge does 5D4+19 damage (Total between 5 missiles).

Cheers
Paul H
Edit:
PS There's a set of gloves in the MIC (Gaunlets of Starry Sky, Pg204) that allow you to spont any spell to a MM. Sounds stupid, until you remember that Blades of Fire is a 2nd Lvl Swift spell, so you can get of two sets of missiles a round. (Gloves work 3/day, plus emit Light spell at will. Cost 1100gp)

Except 1) We already established that Force Missile Mage Pierces Shield.

2) A Sorcerer can take Wings of Flurry, with the set ups here, and still be better off then any Warmage ever.

[Heliomance]

Wait, what about having an artificer with a belt of battle using his class feature to metamagic the bajeebus out of a wand of magic missile?

That is, surely he can fire a twin chain repeating maximized empowered quickened....

And blow every charge in his wand in one round in return for obscene damage?

Currently playing in a modern-day D&D game.

DM has ruled that all wands and staffs can do Retributive Strike.

We have a wand of Magic Missile taped to a grenade.

[RagnaroksChosen]

heres a build i did while bored for this

Level | class | feat
1. Warmage 1 | Combat casting & Iron will
2. Warmage 2
3. Warmage 3 | Quicken spell
4. Warmage 4
5. Warmage 5
6. Warmage 5/FFM 1 | Force needle
7. Warmage 5/FFM 2
8. Warmage 5/FFM 3
9. Warmage 5/FFM 4 | Blade of force
10. Warmage 5/FFM 5
11. Warmage 6/FFm 5
12. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 1 | Arcane thesis(MM)
13. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 1 | Twin spell
14. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 2
15. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2 / Incantrix 3| resedual Magic
16. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 4| Maximise spell
17. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 5
18. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 6|
19. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 7| Empower Spell
20. Warmage 6/FFm 5/ Argent Sevant 2/ Incantrix 8

[RMS Oceanic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Warmage suffer from the same Casting-Time increases as Sorcerors when applying metamagic feats? If so, doesn't that make Quicken Spell redundant?

This is why people prefer sorceror: the alternate feature in PHBII that allows you to give up your familiar to let you cast Meta spells like a Wizard.

[hotel_papa]

All spontaneous casters suffer from Quicken Spell redundancy, unless they mitigate it somehow. Like, by not playing a spontaneous caster.

[RagnaroksChosen]

All spontaneous casters suffer from Quicken Spell redundancy, unless they mitigate it somehow. Like, by not playing a spontaneous caster.

Ack forgot about that so switch it out for another meta magic

[konfeta]

There has to be a way to sneak in IGMS from the Neverwinter Nights game into pnp and convince your DM to let all of this work on that spell.

For reference:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Isaac%27s_..._missile_storm

[Douglas]

Let's see, take Disintegrate and remove both the attack roll and the save... Yeah, that's balanced.

There's a reason I like to call that spell Isaac's Greater Munchkin Swarm.

[OzymandiasVolt]

Rod of Many Wands: Wand of Greater Arcane Fusion x3. (Full round action)
Each Greater Arcane Fusion is used to cast Arcane Fusion and Force Missile.
Each Arcane Fusion is used to cast Force Missile and Magic Missile.
So that's 6 x Force Missile and 3 x Magic Missile.

Then you cast Greater Celerity and do it again.
Total: 12 x Force Missile, 6 x Magic Missile.

Terribly inefficient, but come on, Magic Missile Massacre.

[konfeta]

Let's see, take Disintegrate and remove both the attack roll and the save... Yeah, that's balanced.

Common, I think tippy or some other unholy optimizer looked at that spell and said "Pfft. Weak."

Sure it's on the imba side of the NWN spectrum but it doesn't really compare to some of the stuff real melee builds did there.

[Stupendous_Man]

Let's see, take Disintegrate and remove both the attack roll and the save... Yeah, that's balanced.

There's a reason I like to call that spell Isaac's Greater Munchkin Swarm.

Pfft, it does damage

[mabriss lethe]

Rod of Many Wands: Wand of Greater Arcane Fusion x3. (Full round action)
Each Greater Arcane Fusion is used to cast Arcane Fusion and Force Missile.
Each Arcane Fusion is used to cast Force Missile and Magic Missile.
So that's 6 x Force Missile and 3 x Magic Missile.

Then you cast Greater Celerity and do it again.
Total: 12 x Force Missile, 6 x Magic Missile.

Terribly inefficient, but come on, Magic Missile Massacre.

One problem I can see with this little trick... Wands only carry up to a 4th level spell. GAF is considerably higher level. (W/ regular Arcane fusion being out of bounds as well, since it's a 5th level spell IIRC)

[OzymandiasVolt]

Curses, foiled again. Been so long since I've used a Wand with a character that I forgot about the spell level cap.

I apologize for not catching that myself. I must've been blinded by the awesome.

[RMS Oceanic]

So this thread has piqued my interest, so I'm gonna try making a version for a level 15 campaign of my brothers. I'm thinking of Sorceror 6 (Metamagic Variant)/FMM 5/Argent Savant 4

Feats
1 Combat Casting, H Empower
3 Maximize
6 Twin
9 Arcane Thesis (MM)
12 Quicken
15 ???

I'm not sure what to take for level 15, or what feats to take if flaws are allowed (need to clarify).

Spells I intend to take.
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Greater Mage Armor
Shield
Those other missile spells
Arcane Fusion (Won't have access to greater yet)

Any other spells I should take? And what magic items should I get, besides the Cloak of Charisma +6?

[Vinotaur]

So this thread has piqued my interest, so I'm gonna try making a version for a level 15 campaign of my brothers. I'm thinking of Sorceror 6 (Metamagic Variant)/FMM 5/Argent Savant 4

Feats
1 Combat Casting, H Empower
3 Maximize
6 Twin
9 Arcane Thesis (MM)
12 Quicken
15 ???

I'm not sure what to take for level 15, or what feats to take if flaws are allowed (need to clarify).

Spells I intend to take.
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Greater Mage Armor
Shield
Those other missile spells
Arcane Fusion (Won't have access to greater yet)

Any other spells I should take? And what magic items should I get, besides the Cloak of Charisma +6?

Well first of all, don't take Combat Reflexes unless it's a pre-req, because it sucks. Not sure if it is, Secondly, you don't need Mage Armor and Greater.

Other feats could be Empower, Fell Draining, Easy Meta Twin or Quicken.

[RMS Oceanic]

I believe you mean Combat Casting, and yes, it's a pre-req for the FMM Prestige Class. I've already got Empower as a Human Bonus feat, as for the (Greater) Mage Armor thing, having five force spells is a prereq for the Argent class, but I see your point.

[Fax Celestis]

Curses, foiled again. Been so long since I've used a Wand with a character that I forgot about the spell level cap.

I apologize for not catching that myself. I must've been blinded by the awesome.

Try making a one-spell stave or a scepter.

[Mephit]

Well first of all, don't take Combat Reflexes unless it's a pre-req, because it sucks. Not sure if it is, Secondly, you don't need Mage Armor and Greater.

Aside from the spell's obvious flavorfulness, the Argent Savant does give you a +2 bonus on armor and shield bonuses, which is good for a +8 bonus with Greater Mage Armor. I'd say that's worth a 3rd level spell slot per day.
Not to mention the free shield spell as an immeadiate action, good for another +6Combine that with some deflection bonuses and still a maximum Dex bonus, and you're going to be pretty hard to hit.

Be sure to take Explosive Runes.

Oh, and you might want to consider taking the Chain Missile spell (Sp Comp) instead of the MM for high levels. Someone suggested it for my build, and I have to say it's a good spell.
It's identical to MM, except:
- Your missiles hit one target initially, then spring to another target, dealing the same damage.
- It's damage cap is at 10 missiles. (1 per 2CL)
- It's 3rd level.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, and you might want to consider taking the Chain Missile spell (Sp Comp) instead of the MM for high levels. Someone suggested it for my build, and I have to say it's a good spell.
It's identical to MM, except:
- Your missiles hit one target initially, then spring to another target, dealing the same damage.
- It's damage cap is at 10 missiles. (1 per 2CL)
- It's 3rd level.

Now consider what happens when you apply Chain Spell to chain missile.

[Paul H]

Hi

The Chain Missile (SpC) is a good spell. It's also a good reason for Warmage, since all the secondary targets also get Edge/Extra Edge damage added. Just take it as Advanced Learning at 6th lvl.

Don't forget that the 'Sudden' series of metamagic feats (Sudden Empower - Warmage 7th), do not increase casting time for spont casters. So a Rod of Sudden Quicken can be used by Warmages.

Still yet to be convinced that Warmage isn't the answer. Plenty of feats like the Fey Heritage series, Arcane Disciple, etc that allow you to add utility spells to those known. High level campaigns just play Warmage/Rainbow Servant for full Cleric list, but that's off topic.....

Cheers
Paul H

[Mephit]

Now consider what happens when you apply Chain Spell to chain missile.

Hmmm...Quadruple hit. (No save, no SR, no attack roll...)
Boom!
Yummy.

[Fax Celestis]

Hmmm...Quadruple hit. (No save, no SR, no attack roll...)
Boom!
Yummy.

It's worse than that.

Targets A, B, C, D, and E are all within range.

Tim the Enchanter casts chained chain missile on Target A. Target A is affected by primary effect, secondary effect chains to Targets B, C, D, and E.

Then, the chained primary effect chains to B, C, D, and E. Each one has their secondary effect chain to the other targets: B chains secondary effects to A, C, D, and E; C chains secondary effects to A, B, D, and E; D chains secondary effects to A, B, C, and E; E chains secondary effects to A, B, C, and D.

In short, it's exponential: the more targets, the more hits.

[Vinotaur]

Aside from the spell's obvious flavorfulness, the Argent Savant does give you a +2 bonus on armor and shield bonuses, which is good for a +8 bonus with Greater Mage Armor. I'd say that's worth a 3rd level spell slot per day.
Not to mention the free shield spell as an immeadiate action, good for another +6Combine that with some deflection bonuses and still a maximum Dex bonus, and you're going to be pretty hard to hit.

Um, the point was pretty clearly that having both Mage Armor and Greater Mage armor is redundant. Make your arguments for either one, but there is no reason to have both.

[RMS Oceanic]

So my spell list so far:

9/5/5/4/4/3/2
0th
Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Read Magic, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???

1st
Magic Missile, Shield, ???, ???, ???

2nd
Scorching Ray, ???, ???, ???, ???

3rd
Greater Mage Armor, Haste, Chain Missile, Explosive Runes

4th
Force Missile, ???, ???, ???

5th
Overland Flight, Arcane Fusion, ???

6th
???, ???

What other spells would I pick in order to also contribute as a team player?

[Iku Rex]

What other spells would I pick in order to also contribute as a team player?

My list for Sorc 13 casting.
Theme: Descendant of a force dragon, master of invisible force fields.

1 (5): Shield, Magic Missile, Wings of Swift Flying (RacDrag), Greater Mage Hand (SpC) [invisible force lifts object], Persistent Blade (SpC)
2 (5): Wings of Cover (RacDrag) (!), See Invisible [see invisible force], Battering Ram (SpC), Gust of Wind [invisible force makes the air move], Greater Slide (SpC) [invisible force moves creature]
3 (4): Greater Mage Armor, Chain Missile (SpC), Laeral's Silver Lance (Waterdeep), Dragonskin (SpC) [ask for "force resistance" instead of energy resistance]
4 (4): Orb of Force (SpC), Wings of Flurry (RacDrag), Resilient Sphere, Forcewave (SpC)
5 (3): Wall of Force, Arcane Fusion (CMag), Overland Flight [you are carried aloft by invisible force]
6 (2): Crushing Sphere (LEoF), Disintegrate [dismantle the invisible force that holds matter together]

It should provide a good combination of offense, defense, battlefield control and utility. Ask if you're wondering why a spell is on the list. (Though a few are mostly fillers, since it was hard to find good force/"forcy" spells for low levels.


Feat suggestions (based on your list):

1 Combat Casting, H Draconic Heritage (RacDrag)
3 Empower Spell
6 Practiced Spellcaster (CArc)
9 Arcane Thesis (MM) (PHBII)
12 Quicken Spell
15 Twin Spell (CArc)

Draconic Heritage makes you dragonblooded, which helps with certain spells. Practiced Spellcaster makes up for the lost caster levels. I'd probably also drop Quicken. One more level and you can get the Arcane Spellsurge spell from Dragon Magic, and cast two spells (3 with Arcane Fusion) per round without a level increase. Spell Penetration, Force Needle (CMag) or Martial Weapon Proficiency (for Abjurant Champion PrC) are good replacements, as is another metamagic feat of some sort (Chain?).

[Mephit]

Comment:

9 Arcane Thesis (MM)

I still think getting an Arcane Thesis on your Chain Missile is better, especially if you're mid-high level. (Which you have to be to take AT, so generalise that)

I do like the concept of a dragon descendant, though.

[Iku Rex]

I still think getting an Arcane Thesis on your Chain Missile is better, especially if you're mid-high level. (Which you have to be to take AT, so generalise that)

Force Missile Mage doesn't technically work with Chain Missile. As long as he's investing in that class he should focus on Magic Missile. Other than that, I agree.

[RMS Oceanic]

I like the Forcemage theme, but I dunno about the Draconic Heritage. And Arcane Spellsurge still only lets you cast one spell with a normal casting time of swift in a round, and I don't have many spells that are different from a standard action.

What about (non-Charisma-boosting) magic items? I was thinking about Ring of Wizardry III and/or IV, as my metamagic'd Magic Missiles will usually end up at these levels.

[Iku Rex]

I like the Forcemage theme, but I dunno about the Draconic Heritage. And Arcane Spellsurge still only lets you cast one spell with a normal casting time of swift in a round, and I don't have many spells that are different from a standard action.

Draconic Heritage/dragonblood is mostly useful for Wings of Cover (protect allies) and Arcane Spellsurge (cast as swift action). Without those spells it's not worth it.

The big deal with Arcane Spellsurge is that "a sorcerer or other spontaneous arcane caster could cast a metamagic spell (as a standard action) and a normal spell (as a swift action) in the same round".

So instead of (for example) a level 4 Quickened MM (swift) and a regular MM (standard) you can cast a level 4 Twinned MM (standard) and a regular MM (swift). Or Arcane Fusion and a metamagiced MM. And you can use it on more than 3+Int mod spells per day.

As for items, rings of wizardry are very expensive. I wouldn't bother. (I may post some suggestions later if I have time.)