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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Umm.. the sword. What else could it be holding?
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    The shield. My readied action was to use telekinesis, targeting whichever of the two was NOT held by a locked gauntlet, and disarm it.

    You won't suffer a -4 penalty, as a shield is considered a melee weapon.

    Opposed attack roll: (1d20+29)[33]

    If successful, telekinesis has your shield, at the point you first came fully into view. From there, you may continue your charging bash of doom.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Oh sh...

    You know, it never occurred to me that I could lock the shield too...
    This is bad. Very bad. Say, would the loss of my shield make, by any chance, Divine Shield irrelevant?

    Opposed Disarm check: (1d20+13)[28]
    (Is a heavy steel shield considered a light weapon? If so, subtract 4 from the above roll. Not that it matters.)
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Divine Shield's text states that it grants your shield the bonus. Losing that would, in fact, knock your charisma bonus off your AC.

    And no, it's not a light weapon. You can power attack with it.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Did the attack hit? Do you have any tricks up your sleeve? DR, resistances, something that can block Power attack? (2 of that damage was PA, btw)

    I ask because, here's a funny thing: I count 102 damage and I forgot to roll my truedeath 1d6 Vs Undead.

    Here it is: (1d6)[4]

    So what's the status?
    (crosses fingers)
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    That'll get me, though if you'd be so kind as to explain the +70, I'd appreciate it.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    If you open the spoiler of the post in the previous page, you'll see it contains the breakdown for attack and damage:

    Damage: 1d8+3 Weapon + 13 Cha (from Slippers of Battledancing, instead of Strength because I've moved 10 ft) + 39 Charging Smite + 13 divine might + 2 PA + 4d6 Law Bearer + 13 gauntlets = 1d8+70 + 4d6 slashing + 13 fire damage
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    If you open the spoiler of the post in the previous page, you'll see it contains the breakdown for attack and damage:

    Damage: 1d8+3 Weapon + 13 Cha (from Slippers of Battledancing, instead of Strength because I've moved 10 ft) + 39 Charging Smite + 13 divine might + 2 PA + 4d6 Law Bearer + 13 gauntlets = 1d8+70 + 4d6 slashing + 13 fire damage

    Charging Smite breakdown: Mighty Smiting weapon property gives +2 to attack and damage when you smite. 11 paladin levels + 2 = 13 damage, and Charging Smite multiplies that by 3.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    I'm referring to sources for the above.

    Though a weapon that adds +2 to damage when you smite does not add +2 to your smite damage. It would not multiply.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Quote Originally Posted by Charging Smite
    Beginning at 5th level, if you smite evil on a charge attack, you deal an extra 2 points of damage per paladin level to any evil creature you hit (in addition to the normal bonus damage dealt by a smite). If the charge attack misses, the smite ability is not considered used. This is a supernatural ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Smiting
    If you have a smite ability (smite, smite evil, smite shadowlands, or the like), you gain an extra +2 bonus on your smite attack rolls and damage rolls.
    ... I believe you are correct. So, my Charging Smite damage should be 11x3 +2 = 35. Right?
    That means you are alive, I mean undead, and about to whack me to oblivion. Right?

    (And now I really wish I had listened to your advice and taken the greater Truedeath crystal, heh.)
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Ughh... sorry about the double posts, the forums are really frustrating at this point. It takes me a lot of time to refresh and open pages.

    Is there any other source you'd like clarifications about?
    Gauntlets are Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows, and add (Cha bonus) fire damage to every melee attack.
    Last edited by KevLar; 2008-12-03 at 11:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Build's not focused on Crits, remember? :)

    Even so, here we go:

    Can't heal (enough), and so it comes down to damage. I doubt this will get you, BUT:

    Telekinesis (continued): Grapple attempt on you. This is a melee touch attack.

    Lurk Augment: Deceptive Strike (this renders you without your dexterity modifier. It works against uncanny dodge, provided you have less than 11 levels in classes that grant uncanny dodge)

    Touch attack vs Flat-footed AC: (1d20+29)[44]
    If hit, opposed grapple: (1d20+29)[44]
    If won: (1d3+1)[3] - your DR of 5 = 0 damage.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Touch attack hits, of course.
    Opposed grapple check: not rolling, I automatically fail.

    A question though. If you use the Combat Maneuver version of Telekinesis, shouldn't you maintain Concentration in order to keep using it? So shouldn't you roll a check Vs damage dealt, since you were already using Telekinesis when you got hit?
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    I looked at that in the SRD, for just this question. Here is what I found (relevant section bolded):
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD, abilities
    Supernatural Abilities (Su)

    Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is:

    10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma).

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Oh, right. OK then.

    For my next round, I'll tell you what I do without spoilers, because I'm not sure how this works.

    I want to use the Shadow Jaunt maneuver as a standard action. I have no idea if it provokes (doesn't say anything about that in the text, and oddly enough it's not described as a supernatural ability).

    Also, technically, using maneuvers is not among the actions you are allowed to do while grappling. But can you think of any reason why it shouldn't? (Other than ToB being published long after the SRD?)

    Thoughts?
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    From ToB:

    To initiate a maneuver or a stance, you must be able to move. You do not need to be able to speak. You initiate a maneuver by taking the specified initiation action. A maneuver might require an immediate, swift, move, standard, or full-round action to initiate. The process of initiating a maneuver is similar to that of casting a spell or manifesting a psionic power, although there are some key differences (see below).
    Grappling doesn't mean you can't move at all, so OK from here.

    Enemy interference might make certain maneuvers impossible to complete. For example, if an enemy who readied an action to trip you when you started your turn knocks you prone, you would not be able to use a maneuver that required you to charge. Similarly, if you begin your turn grappled or pinned, you might find that most of the maneuvers available to you simply won’t be of any use until you get free.
    Key word: most. I believe that teleportation has no reason to be prevented from being grappled.

    You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate a maneuver or stance unless its description explicitly says otherwise.
    Oh, right. You provoke (unless otherwise noted) only as part of another move or action that the maneuver includes and provokes. I don't think Teleportation applies.

    So again. Thoughs? :)
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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    I don't see a problem with it. Go ahead and shadow jaunt.

    Martial maneuvers are Extraordinary abilities unless it states otherwise. Such abilities generally do not provoke.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    OK. :)

    Stella swears like a sailor and poof! disappears.

    Standard action (you guessed it), Shadow Jaunt. I reappear to E-20 ground level (LoS and LoE established, so that Shadow Jaunt applies), and promptly dive inside the ground. Move action to E-21, altitude 10 ft, inside the pillar all the time. No need to hide, but here's my Move Silently: (1d20+31)[44].

    Is the shield floating just below the ceiling?

    Spoiler
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    free action: reallocate Law Devotion to AC.
    AC: 10 + 10 Armor + 4 Dex + 2 natural + 5 Swordsage +7 Law Devotion = 38
    Touch AC: 26
    Flat-footed AC: 34

    HP: 103
    Divine Shield Rounds left: 1 (no shield, though...)
    Rebuke Undead left: 15
    Law Devotion rounds left: 5
    Smite left: 7

    1 granted Crusader maneuver (last one)
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    You're still grappled after you Jaunt. The only reason grapples usually end upon a dimension door is that you are no longer in the same square as your enemy. However.... Telekinesis isn't in a square. It has a target. You. As long as I am targeting you from a grapple, and as long as you remain a legal target, telekinesis is on you. Down side? It can't damage you, I have to use standard actions to maintain it, so I can't damage you, and it lasts no more than 13 more rounds. I can get 1 round of attacks on you with belt of battle, but I can't augment them (Belt uses the swift action that augments need), so there's no way that attack will drop you.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    LOL.

    Well, I don't see from where exactly it is derived that the target of Combat Maneuver (or Telekinesis in general) is poor Me, but I'll roll with it.

    Suggestion: Since the forums are so frustrating, would you like to speed this up a bit? For as long as you maintain the grapple, I'll attempt to Escape. I have a +15 to Escape Artist, and you have a +29 to Grapple, right? You can use the Belt of Battle if you wish. If you are OK with that, here we go:

    Rounds 7 to ??

    Escape Artist attempts:
    1 (1d20+15)[25]
    2 (1d20+15)[23]
    3 (1d20+15)[17]
    4 (1d20+15)[24]
    5 (1d20+15)[22]
    6 (1d20+15)[19]
    7 (1d20+15)[27]
    8 (1d20+15)[16]
    9 (1d20+15)[21]
    10 (1d20+15)[33]
    11 (1d20+15)[29]
    12 (1d20+15)[16]
    13 (1d20+15)[24]

    (If you're not OK with that, it's your turn again.)

    Spoiler
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    I'll calculate maneuvers etc once we know what round we're in. If Law Devotion ends, I'll burn 3 Rebuke attempts to activate it again as a swift action. In the spoiler above, I forgot to include to AC a +2 insight from stance and a +1 dodge (from Dodge). So:
    AC: 10 + 10 Armor + 4 Dex + 2 natural + 5 Swordsage +7 Law Devotion +2 stance +1 dodge = 41
    Touch AC: 29
    Flat-footed AC: 36

    HP: 103
    Rebuke Undead left: 15 (or 12, if Law Devotion ended)
    Law Devotion rounds left: ?? (will calculate later)
    Smite left: 7
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    I auto-win all rounds that I intend to use. Effect will end before round 10, and I auto-win all rolls prior.

    On round 1: Move action: Move 60 feet towards your shield.
    On round 2: Move action: Sheath my longsword.
    On round 3: Move action: Pick up your shield.
    On round 4 and 5: Move to A 40.
    Round 6: Voluntarily end the effect by ceasing concentration.
    Move: Up into the ceiling. Move will continue, east of A 40. ends where A 51 would be.
    Move 2: to -I 51- (elevation 45)

    I will spend the next 10 minutes in the wall, staying absolutely still, taking no actions, and thus, making no sound. I have total concealment, I'm completely unable to be detected by hearing, and I'm just waiting for your effect that lets you see me to wear out.

    Assuming you don't find me, in 10 minutes, I'll post my next action.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    You moved out of the arena or am I looking at the wrong map all this time?
    I mean, I know no one has thought to disallow moving out of the arena, but I thought it was a given.

    Also. As soon as she is free from the force effect, Stella dives to the ground and stays inside the ground. She doesn't want to get caught in that thing EVER again. One round, still inside the ground, will be spent for Adaptive Style. Another round will be spent to move, still inside the ground, to a random direction.

    After that, here is the pattern:
    Move action inside the ground (or wall, or ceiling) 30 ft, 5 ft up to emerge (with concealment) and look out as a free action with Quick Recnonnoiter, and standard action to ready an action. Next round? Dive in (5 ft), move (30 ft), emerge (5ft), repeat.

    Direction: Towards the center of the arena (ground). Towards a wall, say north. Up the wall. Up the ceiling. Towards the center of the arena (ceiling). Stay there. Pop back and forth (emerge, look, get back inside). Keep readied action indefinitely.

    Let's see who will come out first.

    *wonders idly about a possible time limit to each match (I mean, without one, I might as well declare than I'm waiting until tomorrow to activate the Scout's Headband again. That's awful.) and what on earth Casper would do Vs an opponent with constant See Invisibility*

    Spoiler
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    rebuke is down to 15. (Stella renews Law Devotion once, while she's still grappling, but once she's in the ground she doesn't bother again.)
    Condition for Readied action: any telekinesis effect.
    Readied action: move action, 5ft back inside the ground (wall, ceiling) and 30 ft to a random direction, always inside the ground.
    The action occurs just before the action that triggers it.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    For telekinesis, the target is "See text". For the combat maneuver area:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD, Telekinesis
    Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple), you use your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as for disarm or trip).
    For the other? Anytime we've entered the floor or the ceiling completely, we've left the arena, by that standard. I just carried it farther.

    Against a creature with constant see invis? It likely won't be incorporeal. I'll have ethereal shifting, and such. I admit, my damage isn't what I'd like. I may change it some more.

    The alternate would have been to treat it as a thrown ranged weapon, if we can't go out of the arena, and throw it 50 feet away. (range increment 10, 5 increments. That would put it untouchable, outside the arena. Either way, I intend to put your shield where it won't be gotten. Only chance I've got is to lower your AC, AND be invisible. I'm at freakin' 1 HP. That's like, feathers kill me territory.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    For the other? Anytime we've entered the floor or the ceiling completely, we've left the arena, by that standard. I just carried it farther.
    Oh come on.
    An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.
    (Five ft inside the ground/floor/ceiling? Peachy! Ten ft inside? No way.)

    Either way, I intend to put your shield where it won't be gotten. Only chance I've got is to lower your AC, AND be invisible. I'm at freakin' 1 HP. That's like, feathers kill me territory.
    1) I've already given up on the shield and my AC is indeed low.
    2) You can use Deadly Touch on yourself. You won't be full again, and you're still (possibly) one successful attack away from dropping, but that's undeath for ya. Few hp. I sympathize.
    3) If you don't intend to come out at all, there's obviously nothing we can do to end this. At least I pop out and look from time to time. So we can declare this a (very unfair) draw. Or we can (indeed) impose a time limit, and make up a rule about it. I dunno.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Talic, forgive me, but this is how I see it.

    There's tactical fighting.

    That's awesome. You do that better than anyone I've played with so far. It's challenging and interesting. It can be frustrating too, but in an absolutely good way.

    Then there's cautious fighting.
    That's wise. You are doing it, and I am (occasionally) doing it, and everyone should do it.

    And then there's no fighting at all.
    That's what you're doing. Delaying and evading your opponent, so that you can attack from a position of advantage, is one thing. Taking no risk at all is quite another. If you simply refuse to attack because it could kill you, it's not a fight any more. It's conceding.

    Now, I realize I'm partly to blame for that. I'm the one who (foolishly) said "let's see who comes out first". I apologize. And I'll gladly take it back. But only if you intend to actually try to fight me. So what do you say?
    Last edited by KevLar; 2008-12-03 at 05:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    1) You stated ruled for incorporeal. We're not. We're Ethereal. That makes a world of difference as to what's allowed. However, I'll rewind to that Round 6, if you like, and modify the turn so that I don't go 60 feet into the wall.

    And yes, actually, I'm delaying to attack from a position of advantage. If you can't see me, the hit and run of the build really takes off. It's a rather long delay, but I'm confident I can do it with partial cover.

    That said, I did go toe-to-toe with you once. Got knocked to 1 hp. So now, if I am to have any shot at winning, I need to be able to have a chance to hit you repeatedly without counter hits. That's not an easy thing to do.

    Here's my proposed idea. Neither of us will spend more than 1 full round in total cover at any one time.

    That's enough to reposition, to ready something in hiding, and come back out.

    However, we must pick a square and be in it. Being halfway between an "in the ground" square and a "not in the ground" square, so as to have partial concealment? not RAW. RAW, the only way you can occupy more than one square is to be a large creature. So we're either at 0 elevation, and visible, or at -5 and in the ground. There's no halfways on that one. Difficult terrain can offer concealment enough to hide, while still being visible, and that's fine. But every square on the board is a bit excessive.

    Sound good?

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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    1) You stated ruled for incorporeal. We're not. We're Ethereal. That makes a world of difference as to what's allowed. However, I'll rewind to that Round 6, if you like, and modify the turn so that I don't go 60 feet into the wall.
    By RAW, you have a point. However, my main problem wasn't the illegality of the move, it was... the un-sportsmanship. If we fight in an arena, we fight in an arena. I have assumed that the ground and ceiling is part of the arena, which is way I've been spending some time in there. I wouldn't move outside the map. (Actually, I did that when I said I go in the wall. My bad.) You want to disallow that (ground, walls, ceilings), and make it so we can only enter the pillars? Absolutely fine with me. Tactical warfare, yay!

    And yes, actually, I'm delaying to attack from a position of advantage. If you can't see me, the hit and run of the build really takes off. It's a rather long delay, but I'm confident I can do it with partial cover.
    Now that you bring that up, between you and me... if I was making the rules, a delay of 100 rounds would be unacceptable. Heck, even 20 rounds would be unacceptable. (Oh, high big barbarian, I'll just disappear until your rage ends! Sucks to be you.) Poor sportsmanship. Bad spectacle for the crowds. Bad idea. But I've accepted it, and we're moving on.

    Here's my proposed idea. Neither of us will spend more than 1 full round in total cover at any one time.

    That's enough to reposition, to ready something in hiding, and come back out.
    No problem.

    However, we must pick a square and be in it. Being halfway between an "in the ground" square and a "not in the ground" square, so as to have partial concealment? not RAW. RAW, the only way you can occupy more than one square is to be a large creature. So we're either at 0 elevation, and visible, or at -5 and in the ground. There's no halfways on that one. Difficult terrain can offer concealment enough to hide, while still being visible, and that's fine. But every square on the board is a bit excessive.
    Ah, I see your point and I've been wording this wrong all this time (because it conjured a better visual, heh). Of course it's illegal to be half-way through squares. But here's what I meant:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium, p.65
    An incorporeal creature can also occupy the same space as a solid object without being inside that object, and it typically gains cover from doing so. Compare the size of the incorporeal creature to the size of the corporeal object. Consult the Sharing Spaces table to determine the extent of cover enjoyed by the incorporeal creature.
    The Table (which will take me a lot of time to copy properly here, check your pm box in a while) says that the incorporeal creature gains Cover if the corporeal object is same size or one category larger, and Total Cover if the corporeal object is two or more categories larger.

    There's also this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal Subtype
    In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks.
    (Oh, and I know we are ethereal and not incorporeal to each other, but we are certainly not corporeal in relation to objects of the material plane.)

    ... Aaaaand this is what I've been doing. I believe it's legal. Arguments for or against?
    Last edited by KevLar; 2008-12-04 at 06:16 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Quote Originally Posted by KevLar View Post
    By RAW, you have a point. However, my main problem wasn't the illegality of the move, it was... the un-sportsmanship. If we fight in an arena, we fight in an arena. I have assumed that the ground and ceiling is part of the arena, which is way I've been spending some time in there. I wouldn't move outside the map. (Actually, I did that when I said I go in the wall. My bad.) You want to disallow that (ground, walls, ceilings), and make it so we can only enter the pillars? Absolutely fine with me. Tactical warfare, yay!
    I think that 5 feet into the walls and such is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevLar View Post
    Now that you bring that up, between you and me... if I was making the rules, a delay of 100 rounds would be unacceptable. Heck, even 20 rounds would be unacceptable. (Oh, high big barbarian, I'll just disappear until your rage ends! Sucks to be you.) Poor sportsmanship. Bad spectacle for the crowds. Bad idea. But I've accepted it, and we're moving on.
    Depends on how it's done. The plucky guy dancing away from the raging meatstick for that length of time might get boring, but engaged, it's hard to argue. By the same token, if we're talking about crowd spectacles, invisibility and hiding would be hard sells, as would a great many other things (1 hit KO's? you know how many people got mad at the 6 second Tyson fight? all of em). So I can see a tactical argument, but not a "will of the spectator" argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by KevLar View Post
    Ah, I see your point and I've been wording this wrong all this time (because it conjured a better visual, heh). Of course it's illegal to be half-way through squares. But here's what I meant:

    The Table (which it will take me a lot of time to copy properly here, check your pm box in a while) says that the incorporeal creature gains Cover if the corporeal object is same size or one category larger, and Total Cover if the corporeal object is two or more categories larger.

    (Oh, and I know we are ethereal and not incorporeal to each other, but we are certainly not corporeal in relation to objects of the material plane.)

    ... Aaaaand this is what I've been doing. I believe it's legal. Arguments for or against?
    However when you're entirely inside of walls (per the other part), you have total cover unless attacking. So the part about gaining cover and object sizes? It's not an object. You're entirely in the floor, so we use the second part. You have total cover. This means:

    No need for hide checks. You can't be seen.
    AND
    It works both ways. You can't see.

    Now, when you attack, you have cover, but not total. That means that you can see and be seen. But that only applies when you attack. Not when you're moving.

    So, if you want to see, you either need to:
    move outside the square (and lose cover from the floor/wall/ceiling)
    or
    make an attack outside the wall, at which point you still have cover, and can see into the arena. At that point, you could hide to avoid being seen). Once the attack's over, you're back in the wall, and once again have total cover.

    If I remember correctly, incorporeal creatures can "sense" when something is outside the wall 5 feet away. I'd have to have a bit of booko time to find that though, and I'm AFB right now.

    Now, the object thing? Works well if you're hiding in a statue, or under a table, but has no bearing when your entire square is covered. That's when you're inside a wall/floor, and those rules apply.

    EDIT: Basically, 1 square is total cover. 1 square is no cover. The only time you can be between the two (with cover only) is while you attack (per the last SRD exerpt you posted). You've been kinda moving around in a permanent state of half-in.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-12-04 at 06:34 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    If I remember correctly, incorporeal creatures can "sense" when something is outside the wall 5 feet away. I'd have to have a bit of booko time to find that though, and I'm AFB right now.
    Yes, it's the same as pinpointing invisible opponents, with a +2 to your Listen check (because sound is carried better in solid objects).
    EDIT- Though, logically, that +2 shouldn't apply when we're both ethereal, I think. We're on another plane, we don't interact with material objects at all, all they do is block line of sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Now, the object thing? Works well if you're hiding in a statue, or under a table, but has no bearing when your entire square is covered. That's when you're inside a wall/floor, and those rules apply.
    Accepted.
    Would it be fair to assume that the pillars (in particular) aren't completely square blocks of granite (that would be hard to visualize), and therefore can be used for cover? At least the edges (top squares, and squares that are adjacent to normal terrain).

    And come to think of it, I don't know why I thought they were pillars all this time, they are described as rocks. Huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Basically, 1 square is total cover. 1 square is no cover. The only time you can be between the two (with cover only) is while you attack (per the last SRD exerpt you posted). You've been kinda moving around in a permanent state of half-in.
    Accepted for ground, ceiling and walls. You are right, I shouldn't be able to do that. Sorry....

    But I believe this method should work for the rocks. Do you agree?
    Last edited by KevLar; 2008-12-04 at 07:03 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Gestalt Arena practice - Moby Vs Stella

    Quote Originally Posted by KevLar View Post
    Would it be fair to assume that the pillars (in particular) aren't completely square blocks of granite (that would be hard to visualize), and therefore can be used for cover? At least the edges (top squares, and squares that are adjacent to normal terrain).

    And come to think of it, I don't know why I thought they were pillars all this time, they are described as rocks. Huh.

    But I believe this method should work for the rocks. Do you agree?
    Should work fine for rocks, as well as difficult terrain. (yes, difficult terrain can be rubble. It can also be shrubberies. I think the latter provides a more interesting arena).

    Rocks work 10 feet up, Difficult terrain 5?

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