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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    One ting I'd like to mention: If Wanda wins this fight and get's the pliers, I hope she is clever enough to walk home instead of flying home. If she flies, Charley can engage her and capture her and the pliers. He may have no poiunt in attacking before the fight, but I don't think he can resist a masterclass necromancer + arkentool. No one could, not with that superior firepower.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by headhoncho View Post
    To me, this feels like a stark contrast to the suicidal nature of the act as expressed initially by the other RCC warlords.
    118 is back now, so we can see exactly what was said. The redhead says, "We can't get through the walls with all those troops deployed there." We know from a klog (I believe) that the strength of the walls is dependent on the number of troops deployed there. So this is a statement about the ability of their seige to penetrate the wall and nothing else.

    The only other statement is when Ansom takes off to handle the guys on the wall, the sofa king rep says, "You're brain-lashed!" This could be interpreted as, "You're committing suicide." However it could also be interpreted in at least half a dozen other ways, not to mention that the sofa king guy was rather pissed at Ansom already. So I think you've been reading too much into it this whole thread.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Good eye, indeed. Offhand, I'd guess that if they are undead units then they are warlords rather than the lower-quality uncroaked Dora and Webinar. But Plot makes everything malleable...
    Although Wanda animated Dora and Webinar in the cheapest way, they were stronger to start with than the rest of the mob. If you have two empty mounts, why not fill them with some kind of unit, even if they are weak. The only problem with my theory is that two live Knights would probably have been better.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    One ting I'd like to mention: If Wanda wins this fight and get's the pliers, I hope she is clever enough to walk home instead of flying home. If she flies, Charley can engage her and capture her and the pliers. He may have no poiunt in attacking before the fight, but I don't think he can resist a masterclass necromancer + arkentool. No one could, not with that superior firepower.
    If Wanda has those pliers, she might attune to it and become unstoppable! Charlie is taking an awful risk by letting GK have another super-weapon.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Remember, two or three uncroaked warlords were left after parson's donut plan.
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    If Wanda wins this fight and get's the pliers, I hope she is clever enough to walk home instead of flying home. If she flies, Charley can engage her
    I think the Archons can engage her either way whether she flies or not.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    So Ansom had better be tougher than Wanda in melee, he's a high level warlord, she's a caster. He beats her down quickly, is going to finish her, but Jaclyn and the other two riders engage him. The shock of meeting uncroaked Webinar and Dora set him aback, and Archon power gives him trouble, but eventually the Arkenpliers grant him mastery over the uncroaked, and he destroys them. However, in that time, Wanda has regrouped, and successfully casts a Deletionism spell which injures/kills Ansom.

    Wanda acquires the Arkenpliers. Using the pliers, she grants the uncroaked units on the walls a tremendous commander and artifact bonus, and the Coalition fails to break though (or if they do, they suffer horribly for it). However, in the morning it will be Charlie's turn to act, and all of his units FLY.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    In all the talk about the conflict, hardly any attention has been placed on Wanda's verse. What does it mean?

    Rejoice, despair, Fate does not care

    Is this only her battle cry, or part of her philosophy? The Titans don't care what you do, perhaps? Although she seemed to believe in an earlier comic. Does it mean, "do whatever you want"?

    Each knotted mind entwined, each soul another's bind
    Obviously Wanda knows quite a bit about binding the dead, but also a fair amount about the living. What does she mean here? What interconnections are she referring to, love, "popping", or something further? Does she see something deeper, that all the inhabitants are puppets?

    And blind, though we are led, In time, we do know when to cut a thread

    The inhabitants can't see, led by fellow "idiots", but she's figured out how to cut her ties? Of course, as she's trying to cut Ansom's thread tying him to the mortal coil, it could be simpler. It's more fun to read a deeper meaning though. It ties into the speculation that she works for Stanley more for the freedom it afforded her than anything else.

    All this may be simply throw away verse that fits the mood, but Wanda's motivations are the biggest mystery remaining. She's been seeming more straight forward of late but it's nice to get a hint of meaning.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
    118 is back now
    It is? I'm not seeing it.

    EDIT: It looks OK now.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-12-03 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsl View Post
    And blind, though we are led, In time, we do know when to cut a thread

    The inhabitants can't see, led by fellow "idiots", but she's figured out how to cut her ties?
    In classic latin mythology there were three Parcae, called fates in English, they spent their time spinning threads that represent individual human destinies. When one of them, Morta (death) cut the thread it meant the end of that individual life. Cut a thread clearly means death here.

    Morta used to eat people at times, so is Wanda going to feast on Ansom?
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    It is? I'm not seeing it.
    And I'm seeing it in place of both 131 and 132 now...this is getting confusing!

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Can't see the comic. All I see is 118.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    I'm working on fixing this glitch right now, so things may be weird for a little while. Best bet is to leave it alone for a few minutes at least.

    EDIT: OK, looks fixed now. You may need to force reload the page in order to see either one of the two comics, though.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Cool. Thanks, Giant.

    Edit:

    Okay, yeah. Wanda, being a powerful caster in her own right, is packing three Unipegataurs and an Uncroaked Archon, all of which might have been carefully buffed to the max if Wanda's fawning over them was any indication. On top of that, it looks like she's got two Uncroaked Warlords buffing her stack.

    While Ansom is powerful against uncroaked, Wanda is his main concern right now, and even as a Chief Warlord with an Artifact bonus, this isn't looking good for him.

    It's like in Age of Mythology if you pit a Son of Osiris against Arkantos and a couple of Gold Collossi, then make it so that Arkantos's buff works on them, and ONLY them (thus increasing its power).
    Last edited by DragoonKain; 2008-12-03 at 07:44 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    In classic latin mythology there were three Parcae, called fates in English, they spent their time spinning threads that represent individual human destinies. When one of them, Morta (death) cut the thread it meant the end of that individual life. Cut a thread clearly means death here.

    Morta used to eat people at times, so is Wanda going to feast on Ansom?
    I am not so sure. Thinking about it, the thread remark might have a double meaning. Maybe she hopes to break free from EVERYONE by attuning to the Pliers? She could hardly be someone's follower with her own set of attuned Tools, right?

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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Here's my thoughts regarding the whole thing with the RCC thinking Ansom would die quickly when he's actually doing pretty well. You'd generally assume that there would be a good number of archers on the walls to stop any siege from getting close enough to be a threat. Maybe seeing all those uncroaked they just assumed there would be an obscene number of archers waiting to open fire on the first thing that came up.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Love Wanda's battle gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    I am not so sure. Thinking about it, the thread remark might have a double meaning. Maybe she hopes to break free from EVERYONE by attuning to the Pliers? She could hardly be someone's follower with her own set of attuned Tools, right?
    Stanley was attuned to the Arkenhammer while still serving under King Saline IV:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0087.html

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    They may have figured since magic and traps wiped out their first two attacks that magic or traps was about to reduce Ansom to a puff of ash. Or that there were a hundred or so archers on the other side.


    Quote Originally Posted by fractal
    So Ansom had better be tougher than Wanda in melee, he's a high level warlord, she's a caster. He beats her down quickly, is going to finish her, but Jaclyn and the other two riders engage him. The shock of meeting uncroaked Webinar and Dora set him aback, and Archon power gives him trouble, but eventually the Arkenpliers grant him mastery over the uncroaked, and he destroys them. However, in that time, Wanda has regrouped, and successfully casts a Deletionism spell which injures/kills Ansom.
    I don't see any reason to believe that Ansom is better than Wanda. Uncroaked casters act as infantry, so normal casters should be able to as well. If she is significantly higher leveled, Ansom may not even be a problem for her. In addition she may have any number of magical buffs, defenses, and magical attacks on her side. So while, he may be able to overcome her or even easily beat her down, she could also be a good match, a little better, or even far stronger.
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by los olvidados View Post
    Love Wanda.

    Stanley was attuned to the Arkenhammer while still serving under King Saline IV
    Fixed it for you And ok you are right.

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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    I think Parson's comment on having nothing capable of hitting Ansom has to do with the pliers, all uncroaked turn to dust before they can reach him to inflict damage.

    The way she is forcing Ansom to open the pliers, it looks like Wanda is going to actively pry the plyers from Ansom's hands. If that happens the other flying units can gang on him... and even the other uncroaked.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by jtheory View Post
    The avenging angel swoops in for the kill. Though I have a feeling neither one of them will be dead in the next couple of pages -- for plot reasons more than game mechanics, but perhaps both. I wasn't expecting her to engage him in physical combat!

    Here's the text of Wanda's verse, typed out simply because I enjoyed it (afaik it's original):

    Code:
    Rejoice.  Despair. 
    Fate does not care.
    Each knotted mind entwined.
    Each soul, another's bind.
    And blind, though we are led,
    In time, we do know when
      To cut a thread!
    Nice work with the delayed punch at the end! A sort of tail rhyme.

    And a bit of digging around in poetry terminology suggests that this might be called a good example of Skeltonic verse.

    I suspect that this verse might also be a way of referencing the situation with the pliers.
    They are fate magic, hence the references of the thread-cutting (although unattuned (blind), and led (as by a Titanic mandate), he can still 'Parch' undead through the cutting of their threads.
    She might be attempting to attune to the pliers during the combat, and the insertion of her staff into their jaws has to do more with the attunement completion than a blocking mechanism.

    I suspect that Wanda is surrendering to her fate (or to the pliers) in some way. Her becoming an uncroaked lich, perhaps? There is more to this than meets the eye.

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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    I cannot help but think i am missing a chunk of speculation on not hearing nor engendering any threads oin the sword Parons received. How could it be used? Self-defense against the Archons?
    In a charge against Ansom on the wall?
    Or is it purely symbolic, giving him his Warlord bonus?

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    I hope no one else already posted this, I didn't have time to read every post. :(

    I think the key to the disconnect between the RCC commanders' expectations and Parson's lies in Parson's mathamancy artifact. If people in Erfworld could calculate battles in advance, war would be a lot different for them. I pay particular attention to Parson's exchange with Charlie, where Charlie asks him what the odds are that Parson will survive the next turn. Charlie seems astonished with Parson's reply, which implies that only Parson has a definite understanding of the numbers behind battle. There is no evidence of any casters on Ansom's side, so we do not know how much knowledge the RCC has of croakamancy or mathamancy. Thus, the RCC may not realize that the uncroaked on the wall are weaker than the uncroaked they have faced earlier in the war.
    This explains the disconnect on the RCC side: lack of knowledge about casting/math. As for Parson, you'll notice that even with the mathamancy artifact, he cannot give a definite answer as to the result of the battle. He can only give the odds of his victory. This shows that there is more to battle than numbers. I believe this extra factor is free will. Parson knows that his victory also depends on his enemies' orders in battle. The RCC commanders had the option of listening to or ignoring Ansom orders when he attacked the zombies. Charlie has the option of intervening with all of the Archons. Jack and Stanley could return with Dwagons. All of these situations affect the result of the battle, and Parson does not know which will happen in advance. The result:
    Parson is operating with the maximum knowledge available.
    The RCC is operating based on limited knowledge, but maximum Erfworld combat experience.
    Charlie is operating with more knowledge than the RCC, but with undetermined motivations.
    I can't wait to see what happens next!

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbin View Post
    I suspect that Wanda is surrendering to her fate (or to the pliers) in some way. Her becoming an uncroaked lich, perhaps? There is more to this than meets the eye.
    I want Wanda alive and well. No liches please. Parson surely computed the odds on this battle. He would not send Wanda unless the odds were strongly on her side.

    I don't think Wanda is strong enough to face Ansom on a regular fight, but the pliers are probably not much of a weapon against the living. Her job is just to take them from Ansom, and maybe make him fall from his mount.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
    118 is back now, so we can see exactly what was said. The redhead says, "We can't get through the walls with all those troops deployed there." We know from a klog (I believe) that the strength of the walls is dependent on the number of troops deployed there. So this is a statement about the ability of their seige to penetrate the wall and nothing else.
    The only other statement is when Ansom takes off to handle the guys on the wall, the sofa king rep says, "You're brain-lashed!" This could be interpreted as, "You're committing suicide." However it could also be interpreted in at least half a dozen other ways, not to mention that the sofa king guy was rather pissed at Ansom already. So I think you've been reading too much into it this whole thread.
    I'm not sure what you're reading, but 118/131 confirms what I've been saying all along, and if anything makes the point stronger. Look at Panel 4.

    Redhead: "He's mad...we'll see his body fall at any moment."

    Brunette: "Aye... so we should hasten."

    So we have the two more level-headed (more than Duke Nozzle, who already thinks Ansom has gone boopdung crazy) warlords AGREEING that he's toast "at any moment."

    The brunette, the more loyal of the two, takes the opportunity to get things moving, whether due to not wanting to "waste" Ansom's sacrifice or to try to save him. But she clearly agrees.

    The other points that have been raised are still potentially valid, and I'll continue to reserve judgment. But that is a pretty significant gulf in impression between the chief warlords of the RCC and Parson, I hope you will agree.

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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    I don't think Wanda is strong enough to face Ansom on a regular fight, but the pliers are probably not much of a weapon against the living.
    They seem to be fairly effective on dwagons, and in any case they give a substantial artifact bonus.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-12-03 at 11:10 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by headhoncho View Post
    ...that is a pretty significant gulf in impression between the chief warlords of the RCC and Parson, I hope you will agree.
    Yes it is. However, on further reflection I have no problem with it. Ansom may be tough, and may be essentially immune to the uncroaked on the walls (due to selective engagement and his overwhelming offensive power against uncroaked), but as far as the RCC warlords (or for that matter, Ansom) know, Parson may have a reserve warlord-led max-stack of dwagons hidden behind the walls. Ansom may be one mega-leveled (probably at least a 10) bad-boop, but Jillian could only take out one dwagon before being taken down (and that was with assistance). I doubt Ansom could get through more than two or three before being taken out.

    Parson, of course, knows that there is no uber-stack. The best he has is Wanda, so regardless of chance of success, he had to send her in. That's not to say I think she will fail, but I am not nearly as confident as most of the people here seem to be that she will prevail.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: 132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    "...yeah, hi. Same to you."

    I haven't bothered thinking about the battle for the fact this game has a great taunt button.
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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Yes it is. However, on further reflection I have no problem with it. Ansom may be tough, and may be essentially immune to the uncroaked on the walls (due to selective engagement and his overwhelming offensive power against uncroaked), but as far as the RCC warlords (or for that matter, Ansom) know, Parson may have a reserve warlord-led max-stack of dwagons hidden behind the walls.
    If you want to read that into their statements -- which seem very simple and straightforward -- you are of course free to do that.

    I don't get that impression at all, however. The simplest explanation in my opinion is that the RCC warlords are looking at the masses of undead and know that Ansom can "fall" (and maybe they could be referring to the loss of his carpet, although I'm guessing it's more likely they're talking about falling in battle) "at any moment." They're not qualifying it with the arrival of additional forces, they're looking at the situation as it stands right now. And they don't like the odds.

    Experienced warlords heading up their nations' respective forces, and they don't like the odds. At all. "At any moment" connotes pretty darn fast.

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    Default Re: 131(??) The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Hey I don't even think the Tool started this war?
    He allegedly croaked the Mlquetoast clan and attacked Jetstone units in the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by GidlerFreak View Post
    I think the key to the disconnect between the RCC commanders' expectations and Parson's lies in Parson's mathamancy artifact. If people in Erfworld could calculate battles in advance, war would be a lot different for them. I pay particular attention to Parson's exchange with Charlie, where Charlie asks him what the odds are that Parson will survive the next turn. Charlie seems astonished with Parson's reply, which implies that only Parson has a definite understanding of the numbers behind battle.
    I don't disagree that Chalie doesn't have mathamancy equivalent to Parson's... why else would he want the magic item? However, Charlie is likely shrewd enough to make a good guess about the chances for GK's survival if Parson were using traditional Erf strategy and tactics. It is Parson's innovative, unconventional plans that change the odds so radically.

    Finally, the warlords think that Ansom will survive on the wall long enough for them to make significant progress in breaching the wall... otherwise, they'd sit back and wait for the uncroaked army to decay, one imagines. Or is each turn that the RCC in the field so onerously expensive to each side that the higher casualties of moving now are offset by the wish to avoid waiting for that to happen?
    Quo vadis?

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