132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

[Aquillion]

Come on, let's be honest here.......

s/survived/caused

She can do the Erfworld equivalent of summoning Chuck Norris, I'm not putting anything past her........

To be fair, it's hardly really her doing that. Similar to with the air defenses, she was just the one firing off a scroll purchased from someone else (and it's implied that, partially, her inexperience with the magic involved may have resulted in a bit of a boop-up, as the spell itself implies in the final happy meal.)

Anyone trained in Findamancy could have done the same thing as well if not better.

[Ave]

Why is Wanda's speech so jerky?
Is that really Wanda?

I'm 100% sure she will get the pliers, but i'm somehow not 100% sure that stuttering thing is really Wanda.

[Winged One]

Why is Wanda's speech so jerky?
Is that really Wanda?

I'm 100% sure she will get the pliers, but i'm somehow not 100% sure that stuttering thing is really Wanda.

What else would it be? There we haven't seen any units, live or dead, that look that much like her, and Jack is with the Tool.

[SteveMB]

Why is Wanda's speech so jerky?

Apparently because of backlash from the broken suggestion spell.

[DevilDan]

Come on, let's be honest here.......

s/survived/caused

Haha. Just like Lobo is the last of the Czarnians because he killed off the rest? Funny, but it doesn't ring true to me.

To be fair, it's hardly really her doing that. Similar to with the air defenses, she was just the one firing off a scroll purchased from someone else (and it's implied that, partially, her inexperience with the magic involved may have resulted in a bit of a boop-up, as the spell itself implies in the final happy meal.)

Anyone trained in Findamancy could have done the same thing as well if not better.

To be fair, what the box says is "Help the Summon Spell fix its goof." Plus, Stanley was idiotically pressuring her with other demands/requirements while she was casting the spell.

[Aquillion]

Why is Wanda's speech so jerky?
Is that really Wanda?

I'm 100% sure she will get the pliers, but i'm somehow not 100% sure that stuttering thing is really Wanda.

The backlash from her mind-control spell on Jillian breaking means that "Speech. Z'hard." for her, at least at the moment. It seems to have hit her something like a stroke.

[BarGamer]

She can do the Erfworld equivalent of summoning Chuck Norris, I'm not putting anything past her........

It was inevitable...

Spoiler

Show

The original "Perfect Warlord" spell involved summoning Chuck Norris, but none of the casters could accurately describe Chuck Norris enough to summon him.

Chuck Norris enjoys Dragon Donuts of Doom for breakfast.

Nobody's ever been brave enough to ask Chuck Norris to end his turn.

The reason Charlie is getting together so much money and power, is so he can persuade Chuck Norris not to round-house-kick him.

Chuck Norris complimented Vinny for sleeping with three Archons at once, as it was a good first effort. And then Chuck Norris round-house-kicked Vinny for stealing Chuck Norris's girls.

Chuck Norris mastered all the Mancys, then refused to use them, because Magic Tricks are for sissies.

The Tools of the Titans are simply forgotten toys from Chuck Norris's childhood. Except Chuck Norris NEVER forgets.

[Ave]

The backlash from her mind-control spell on Jillian breaking means that "Speech. Z'hard." for her, at least at the moment. It seems to have hit her something like a stroke.

Oh, now it makes sense. I wonder what the pliers will make of her.
(I didn't even realize what z'hard was supposed to mean before)

[enthar]

The Hammer summons/controls Dragons, the Dish (apparently) summons/controls Archons. I may have missed this in previous threads, but what kind of (presumably Undead?) creature do the Pliers summon/control? And if it is indeed summon and not just control, that could provide a heretofore unknown force to save GK from Charlies Archons and the rest of the coalition, especially if they are Undead, and especially if they are led by a powerful Croakamancer and her 'huge' bonuses to such.

--
Enthar

[DevilDan]

The Hammer summons/controls Dragons, the Dish (apparently) summons/controls Archons. I may have missed this in previous threads, but what kind of (presumably Undead?) creature do the Pliers summon/control? And if it is indeed summon and not just control, that could provide a heretofore unknown force to save GK from Charlies Archons and the rest of the coalition, especially if they are Undead, and especially if they are led by a powerful Croakamancer and her 'huge' bonuses to such.

Just to be clear: we don't even know that the arkendish has anything to do with the archons. Though it could well be the case, no character has even speculated about that.

[BarGamer]

If the ArkenPliers really are aligned with undead, and Stanley really DOES Attune with them...

Spoiler

Show

Dracoliches, please?

[lug0si]

It was inevitable...

Spoiler

Show

The original "Perfect Warlord" spell involved summoning Chuck Norris, but none of the casters could accurately describe Chuck Norris enough to summon him.

Chuck Norris enjoys Dragon Donuts of Doom for breakfast.

Nobody's ever been brave enough to ask Chuck Norris to end his turn.

The reason Charlie is getting together so much money and power, is so he can persuade Chuck Norris not to round-house-kick him.

Chuck Norris complimented Vinny for sleeping with three Archons at once, as it was a good first effort. And then Chuck Norris round-house-kicked Vinny for stealing Chuck Norris's girls.

Chuck Norris mastered all the Mancys, then refused to use them, because Magic Tricks are for sissies.

The Tools of the Titans are simply forgotten toys from Chuck Norris's childhood. Except Chuck Norris NEVER forgets.

LOL! *D
this is silly and very excellent - chapeau!! :)

i dont know if it has already been mentioned, that it might be possible the arkentools have a will of their own (like Sauron's ring etc.). maybe the pliers play a certain role in Ansom getting into trouble sometimes. could it be that they want to be taken from him by someone they esteem 'worthy' like Wanda, thus leading him to the walls of GK all alone and then failing him in combat with her?

[Godskook]

Knowledge about warfare is very different from melee capability. By your logic Parson could beat Ansom mano-et-mano without his sword.

My logic is that of the Chekov trope. Parson has been highly foreshadowed as a great tactician, but never was combat ability mentioned in is repretoire. He is performing as expected, and nothing in my logic would indicate that he can fight well, at least without that combat! sword of his.

This info on Wanda, however, indicates direct combat knowledge that she is trying to hide. The only 'why' I can come up with is because she is a capable combat force and doesn't want anyone to know. Hence, foreshadowing that she can compete with other combat powerhouses in a fight.

1) We don't know anything about caster leveling; they may level from casting spells instead of combat (like an AD&D 2e caster).

True

2) I doubt casters could 'learn combat from a book' as it were. Attack/defense spells, sure. How to use a staff as an effective melee weapon? No.

2a)Alone, reading a book about combat is probably worthless, but:
2b)I said training which includes other possibilities, such as the erfworld equivalents of taking Martial Arts classes or joining a Dagorhir Chapter.
2c)Nothing I said discludes the possibility of her actually seeing combat.

Stanley is not a deep thinker, so he would fixate on superficial matters like leveling--I'm not saying that leveling is unimportant, only that it isn't the crux of the question necessarily. Wanda could certainly have seen her share of fighting given that she survived the disappearance of the Croatan tribe.

Again, I wasn't discluding actual combat from her experience sheet, just offering alternative sources for her being combat effective.

@Enthar, I like the theory, but 'summons'* is misleading about the hammer's ability. It has only been shown to 'tame'* dwagons. 'Course, this only helps the possibility of a theoretical plier-controlled army waiting in the wings, as they'd have to exist already in order to be tamed. I.e., we could have a whole mob of Liches hiding somewhere that emerge the moment Wanda attunes to the pliers.

@BarGamer, you mean "Dwagon Doughnuts of Doom"

[DavesNotHere]

Since, we're hanging out waiting...

I must say that my first reaction to Wanda's verse about cutting a thread, could be more literal than some previous responses.

I think she will hack the flying carpet, and try to send Ansom tumbling off his mount.
We'll see...

Dave.

[Maelore]

Good point. It proves Archons are not HUMANS (in the same sense that Wanda, Sizemore, etc. are human casters). Which proves one of two things:
A) Archons are not casters
B) Non-humans can be casters
We do not have conclusive proof of either.

Erfworld seems to borrow many elements from popular turn based games. In at least some, Hero's of Might and Magic for example, there are units that have their own spell lists. A very good example is Lich's they have a powerful ranged attack, good hit points and a reasonable melee attack. Upgrade them and they gain a spell list they can cast from their own mana pool. The Archons may be similar to this not a true spell caster but a unit with a set list of spells. So if one Archon can cast spell X all can cast spell X. As opposed to two given spell casters who both may be Dirtomancers, for example, but have totally different spell lists.

[quindraco]

Yes, for the record, I meant the comment about Wanda wiping out her tribe as a joke. :)

As a follow-up:

Everyone knows Chuck is a nickname for Charles, right? Just like Charlie.

I'm just saying.

[ishnar]

Yes, for the record, I meant the comment about Wanda wiping out her tribe as a joke. :)

As a follow-up:

Everyone knows Chuck is a nickname for Charles, right? Just like Charlie.

I'm just saying.

Mm, so maybe Charlie really is Chuck Norris. I'm amused by the earlier theory that Charlie was a previous attempt at summoning the Ultimate Warlord. Of course, in another thread someone else already pointed out that Parson speaks in a different font than all the Erfworlders. And Charlie speaks in typical Erfworlder font. So as amusing as I find this theory, I find it unlikely. I also find the Charlie is the Arkendish theory implausible for the same reason. The arkentools are obviously from beyond Erfworld, that's why they are rendered instead of drawn. So if the Arkendish spoke, it would use a different font as well, presumably.

[SeraphRainy]

Since, we're hanging out waiting...

I must say that my first reaction to Wanda's verse about cutting a thread, could be more literal than some previous responses.

I think she will hack the flying carpet, and try to send Ansom tumbling off his mount.
We'll see...

Dave.

Well it could be that Wanda is talking literaly. However it seems like an apropriate time for another kind of confrontaition. Wanda seems to be speaking in a poetical sense here, I belive that the thread reference is to the ties that bind.

My justificaition for that is wrapped up in the love triangle that is, Ansom, Jillian, and Wanda. Most likely her aproach here is just to straight out Croak Ansom because Jillian "loves him more" in wandas mind.

An alternaite meaning could have something to do with the ties of loyalty and most certainly again Wandas probable jealousy towards Ansome.

Anywho I am exited to see whats in store for Ansom

[Aquillion]

Well it could be that Wanda is talking literaly. However it seems like an apropriate time for another kind of confrontaition. Wanda seems to be speaking in a poetical sense here, I belive that the thread reference is to the ties that bind.

My justificaition for that is wrapped up in the love triangle that is, Ansom, Jillian, and Wanda. Most likely her aproach here is just to straight out Croak Ansom because Jillian "loves him more" in wandas mind.

An alternaite meaning could have something to do with the ties of loyalty and most certainly again Wandas probable jealousy towards Ansome.

Anywho I am exited to see whats in store for Ansom

She could also actually mean her ties to Jillian, going by the larger subtext of her speech (the idea of ties 'binding people together' and so on). She might feel that killing Ansom will permanently alienate Jillian from her.

[Goshen]

I think it's already been said in different ways, but Wanda's reference to "cut a thread" has three meanings, at least: (1) Cut the thread of Ansom's fate/life (2) cut the plot thread of the love triangle with Jillian (3) trash his stupid carpet.

[Goshen]

DevilDan, why does your avatar look like an angry uncroaked Ansom?

[DevilDan]

If the secret without Charlie is that spectacular a surprise, it'll be the subject of a future story rather than having it be dropped into our laps with so little warning. (Well, it could be, but as part of a cliffhanger after the main struggle has been settled.)

I doubt, for example, that Charlie is the actual Arkendish, but he could be an Erfworlder that has been thinkamantically merged with the artifact.

DevilDan, why does your avatar look like an angry uncroaked Ansom?

In a previous thread, another poster kept insisting that all my comments were motivated by my positive opinion of Stanley despite my statements to the contrary. So I croaked and uncroaked Ansom.

[Lamech]

I think it's already been said in different ways, but Wanda's reference to "cut a thread" has three meanings, at least: (1) Cut the thread of Ansom's fate/life (2) cut the plot thread of the love triangle with Jillian (3) trash his stupid carpet.

I have another thought or two on that poem of Wanda's... (although one is not original)
4) She is talking about "fate" or "destiny", when she talks about cutting a thread, and weakening fate's hold on the world, her, Ansom ect.
5) It could be a spell incantation too. Such as a fate altering spell or a rip-Ansom's-life-out spell. Of course, this would probably not be the sole meaning.

[Oslecamo]

As far as we know, Jack's stats are on par with your average level 1 infantry unit, and he has just never had reason (or maybe opportunity) to increase them. For that matter, maybe his stats are as good as Jillians and she is only more powerful because of her warlordiness and magic items. Unlikely, but possible...

I beg to disagree.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html

Bogroll the lowly servant who's bullied by half the garrison has an amazing 5 combat and defense 4.

So, if 2/2 is a good set of stats like you say, then Bogroll is a combat monster and with Hamster's and the remaining uncrcroacked warlord's leadership, plus the badass armor Wanda is using now, Bogroll would mop the floor with Ansom.

Or 2/2 is just a bad set of stats, wich would make more sense since you really can't go much lower than 2/2.

[SmallFurryMamml]

I beg to disagree.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html

Bogroll the lowly servant who's bullied by half the garrison has an amazing 5 combat and defense 4.

So, if 2/2 is a good set of stats like you say, then Bogroll is a combat monster and with Hamster's and the remaining uncrcroacked warlord's leadership, plus the badass armor Wanda is using now, Bogroll would mop the floor with Ansom.

Or 2/2 is just a bad set of stats, wich would make more sense since you really can't go much lower than 2/2.

QFT.

However, Bogroll may be a lowly servant, but he's still a Twoll.

I don't know about the level, but he's a... moderatley good combat unit, somewhere in between the basic infantry (presumably about the same as a caster, considering that that's what casters count as when croaked), but less than Heavy Metal Golems or Dwagons.

[Whispri]

I really do think that Wanda is dangerous in close quarters. She is the one who spear headed the charge against Ansom, there are hundreds of living units in Gobwin Knob, and yet it is she who is facing him. True, the Knights may all be croaked or wounded, it would have meant swapping out an Uncroaked Warlord and there would have been a slight delay. But still, no one was worth putting between Wanda and Ansom and that says a lot.

And the visual, she just looks far more like a Knight than a Sorceress.

I'd mutter things like 'cross-class training perhaps?' and 'was she popped as a caster?' But I'd be surprised if someone hasn't muttered those already.

I beg to disagree.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html

Bogroll the lowly servant who's bullied by half the garrison has an amazing 5 combat and defense 4.

So, if 2/2 is a good set of stats like you say, then Bogroll is a combat monster and with Hamster's and the remaining uncrcroacked warlord's leadership, plus the badass armor Wanda is using now, Bogroll would mop the floor with Ansom.

Or 2/2 is just a bad set of stats, wich would make more sense since you really can't go much lower than 2/2.

What makes you think that fours and fives are low when it comes to physical stats? 'Cause there are plenty of games where those would be high. Pretty much everything is a guess when so few units have had their stats revealed, and Jack was debilitated when scanned. We can't even say for sure that the numbers can't go into the negative, or that high is always good. As for the bullying, they were taking advantage of his gullibility, not his strength.

[Lamech]

Bogroll the lowly servant who's bullied by half the garrison has an amazing 5 combat and defense 4.

So, if 2/2 is a good set of stats like you say, then Bogroll is a combat monster and with Hamster's and the remaining uncrcroacked warlord's leadership, plus the badass armor Wanda is using now, Bogroll would mop the floor with Ansom.

Or 2/2 is just a bad set of stats, wich would make more sense since you really can't go much lower than 2/2.

He is a twoll heavy. Plus he just got a promotion which may or may not effect his stats, and he has a weapon. And his stats are 5 attack, 4 defense. If he lacked the weapon his attack would be something like 4? An advanced infantry would be a step down, and a basic would be another step down. So maybe two attack and two defense for basic infantry? Which would fit with the theory Jack is a perfectly capable infantry unit. Of course, bogroll might have levels on Jack (or vica versa) so...

What makes you think that fours and fives are low when it comes to physical stats? 'Cause there are plenty of games where those would be high. Pretty much everything is a guess when so few units have had their stats revealed, and Jack was debilitated when scanned. We can't even say for sure that the numbers can't go into the negative, or that high is always good. As for the bullying, they were taking advantage of his gullibility, not his strength.

Excellant point. If stats were based on a log scale of some type they could go into the negative. If that was the case 0/0 could be anything, which means those stats could be almost anywhere.

[Godskook]

My thoughts on stats:

1)Well, MTG comes to mind. A 2/2 is a fairly good warrior in some creature types, but sucky in others. Compare beasts and elves. It is kinda rare to see anything greater than a 4/4 hit the field, except in specialized decks built to do it. That could be the model used in Erfworld.

2)Stats could be affected by level in some way, making a level 5 2/2 much more powerful than a level 2 2/2. One way would be:

Actual_Hits = hits + level

3)Stats could also be affected by a unit-type bonus. For instance, heavies might have a +3 to hits, while 'advanced' infantry units might have a +1. This theory helps with Vinny's logic in the Dwagons v. TV battle.

[DevilDan]

I really do think that Wanda is dangerous in close quarters. She is the one who spear headed the charge against Ansom, there are hundreds of living units in Gobwin Knob, and yet it is she who is facing him. True, the Knights may all be croaked or wounded, it would have meant swapping out an Uncroaked Warlord and there would have been a slight delay. But still, no one was worth putting between Wanda and Ansom and that says a lot.

If (1) it seems quite crucial to take down Ansom, and (2) flying units may be the best or only way to do it, then (3) you send your uncroaked flying units as they are the only flying units you appear to have at the moment, and (4) you send your croakamancer to give them her considerable bonuses given that she's fighting a high-level overlord royal with an artifact that can pulverize uncroaked.

Just a different take on the issue. I think it's at least possible that she is a capable warrior or that she can perform powerful offensive spells.

[Godskook]

If (1) it seems quite crucial to take down Ansom, and (2) flying units may be the best or only way to do it, then (3) you send your uncroaked flying units as they are the only flying units you appear to have at the moment, and (4) you send your croakamancer to give them her considerable bonuses given that she's fighting a high-level overlord royal with an artifact that can pulverize uncroaked.

Just a different take on the issue. I think it's at least possible that she is a capable warrior or that she can perform powerful offensive spells.

I think Whispri's point was that they sent:

Wanda + 4 uncroaked flyers + 2 possible but unknown riders(presumed uncroaked warlords)
and Wanda plays meatshield.

when they could've sent:

Wanda + 4 uncroaked flyers + 1-2 hobgobwin knights + 0-1 uncroaked warlords
and had the knight(s) play meatshield

Hence, planning on Wanda playing meatshield against Ansom(something Jillian never does against dwagons) says that either (a) a tactical blunder is being made, (b) this is an incredibly desperate move or (c) Wanda+escort v Ansom is a more fair matchup than Jillian+escort v Dwagon.

Given Parson, I highly doubt (a), and (b) is contrary to Parson's emotional tone here. I'm going with Whispri on this and betting (c)