132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

[fendrin]

Hence, planning on Wanda playing meatshield against Ansom(something Jillian never does against dwagons) says that either (a) a tactical blunder is being made, (b) this is an incredibly desperate move or (c) Wanda+escort v Ansom is a more fair matchup than Jillian+escort v Dwagon.

Given Parson, I highly doubt (a), and (b) is contrary to Parson's emotional tone here. I'm going with Whispri on this and betting (c)

Don't assume Parson told Wanda to play meatshield. We know he made the strategic decision to send her in, but it seems that warlords have some discretion over tactics, so *Wanda* may have made that call. We have nothing but a klog-hunch to indicate that Wanda has any tactical skill at all.

Thus (a) is still a possibility.

For that matter, there is a fourth option, lets call it (d), that Wanda is acting out of anger. She may be going on full offensive against Ansom because she is so angry she is not thinking straight. I mean, it's not THAT far of a stretch to say that Wanda truly loved* Jillian, and now has a chance to strike out at the man that took her away.

*Working off of the assumption that Wanda failed to notice she was crossing a line which, in fairness, was not particularly clear ahead of time.

[Whispri]

By that that line of thought she's throwing away a chance to croak or capture Ansom and his pliers just so she can attempt the impossible. Or in other words, you're suggesting that she's started acting like a complete fool. Recollect, when she lashed out at Jillian's forces she went with a method that worked despite her obvious emotion. And her capacity for hope is listed as a weakness on the character page, so she's rather unlikely to hold any illusions about her chances of successfully braining someone if those chances are low.

As an aside, as far as the casting of Suggestion Spells go, it really should be pointed out that her hand may well have been forced by a general order from Stanley to find a way to defeat Ansom, or a specific order from any one of Parson's predecessors.

I think Whispri's point was that they sent:

Wanda + 4 uncroaked flyers + 2 possible but unknown riders(presumed uncroaked warlords)
and Wanda plays meatshield.

when they could've sent:

Wanda + 4 uncroaked flyers + 1-2 hobgobwin knights + 0-1 uncroaked warlords
and had the knight(s) play meatshield

Hence, planning on Wanda playing meatshield against Ansom(something Jillian never does against dwagons) says that either (a) a tactical blunder is being made, (b) this is an incredibly desperate move or (c) Wanda+escort v Ansom is a more fair matchup than Jillian+escort v Dwagon.

Given Parson, I highly doubt (a), and (b) is contrary to Parson's emotional tone here. I'm going with Whispri on this and betting (c)

Exactly. The flying units include three mounts. So why not have one of the three riders be a high level fighter? Why risk Wanda and her huge bonus by having her fight Ansom hand to hand? Unless she's the best person for the job, why take that risk?

[DevilDan]

I absolutely agree with fendrin that Parson likely only gave the order to attack only and did not determine how the attack was carried out. In fact, it's also likely that Wanda chose or had a say in choosing the composition as well as the disposition of her strike force.

To suggest that Parson would use what may well be his single most valuable unit as a "meatshield" is to beggar belief; that would only happen if somehow Wanda were capable of buffing herself into near-invulnerability.

And I do think that, Wanda's evasiveness notwithstanding, mathamancy and his own knowledge have lead Parson to believe that Wanda has a chance. And though Wanda is not a coward, she would, unless she is overcome by rage or the desire for revenge, object to an order that she believes would harm GK. She does not follow orders blindly and is not afraid to make her sentiments known; she also has the capacity to disobey orders that she thinks are seriously misguided.

I would say that Wanda is a person who has a high degree of self-control, though it is of course possible that she is letting her emotions color her judgment.

I didn't object to his conclusions, I just wanted to explore his reasoning. As I wrote:

Just a different take on the issue. I think it's at least possible that she is a capable warrior or that she can perform powerful offensive spells.

[Oslecamo]

He is a twoll heavy. Plus he just got a promotion which may or may not effect his stats, and he has a weapon. And his stats are 5 attack, 4 defense. If he lacked the weapon his attack would be something like 4? An advanced infantry would be a step down, and a basic would be another step down. So maybe two attack and two defense for basic infantry? Which would fit with the theory Jack is a perfectly capable infantry unit. Of course, bogroll might have levels on Jack (or vica versa) so...

Since "basic infantry" means redshirt in efworld, then Jack is still weak. Or as strong as a marbit with a pointy stick who got crushed by the dozens by hard rock golems, depending on your point of view. Basic infantry is cannon fodder that manages to last a little longer and damage a little better than orlies and doombats.

Also, Bogroll is a garrison unit(no move), so he really has no means of going out there gaining levels.

Excellant point. If stats were based on a log scale of some type they could go into the negative. If that was the case 0/0 could be anything, which means those stats could be almost anywhere.

Yeah, because log scale table top wargames are really common out there. Hmm, I don't think so. Mind citing an example? Otherwise we may as well start discussing if the comic is in english or not, because they could be using some kind of really sophisticated language wich looks like english but isn't.

[Whispri]

Attack and defence scores could easily start at high numbers and then decrease as the unit's power increases, it's been done. Even if this isn't the case 2/2 could be the equivalent of advanced infantry or better.

Jack is in Stanley's stack, so his stats should be strong even if he is weak thanks to the leadership and artifact bonuses. I will note that Parson's leadership score was determined by examining the stats of the units under his command. So as I said before, perhaps the backlash inflicted a penalty upon him. It's possible those bonuses are shown on a section of the stats we haven't seen, and what little information on this matter we have is actually incomplete.

Oh and just because Bogroll is a Garrison Unit now doesn't mean this was always the case. And is killing things really the only way to level?

I absolutely agree with fendrin that Parson likely only gave the order to attack only and did not determine how the attack was carried out. In fact, it's also likely that Wanda chose or had a say in choosing the composition as well as the disposition of her strike force.

To suggest that Parson would use what may well be his single most valuable unit as a "meatshield" is to beggar belief; that would only happen if somehow Wanda were capable of buffing herself into near-invulnerability.

And I do think that, Wanda's evasiveness notwithstanding, mathamancy and his own knowledge have lead Parson to believe that Wanda has a chance. And though Wanda is not a coward, she would, unless she is overcome by rage or the desire for revenge, object to an order that she believes would harm GK. She does not follow orders blindly and is not afraid to make her sentiments known; she also has the capacity to disobey orders that she thinks are seriously misguided.

I would say that Wanda is a person who has a high degree of self-control, though it is of course possible that she is letting her emotions color her judgment.

I didn't object to his conclusions, I just wanted to explore his reasoning. As I wrote:

The idea that Parson put no thought into this action beyond yelling 'Attack'? Now that's something that beggers belief. Bottom line, it's a critical moment of the battle and if Wanda isn't a good warrior someone has just made a terrible mistake. Because the meatshield role is the one she's taking and if that task wasn't intended for her then Ansom has just been handed a considerable advantage. And incompetent is something the defenders of Gobwin Knob are not.

I'll also note that buff spells have never been mentioned by any character. There was the dancing, but I wouldn't call that sorcery.

[DevilDan]

The idea that Parson put no thought into this action beyond yelling 'Attack'? Now that's something that beggers belief. Bottom line, it's a critical moment of the battle and if Wanda isn't a good warrior someone has just made a terrible mistake. Because the meatshield role is the one she's taking and if that task wasn't intended for her then Ansom has just been handed a considerable advantage. And incompetent is something the defenders of Gobwin Knob are not.

I'll also note that buff spells have never been mentioned by any character. There was the dancing, but I wouldn't call that sorcery.

I also said that Parson used both his own knowledge and mathamancy calculations as a basis for his decision; but he ought to defer to Wanda when it comes to unit tactics, close combat, and the use of her uncroaked units. "Meatshield" is a loaded term. She seems as if she knows what she's doing and I'll leave it at that. If she isn't using the other units in her stack to try to wear down Ansom or to flank him, she must have a very good reason. Perhaps she's taking advantage of a "dive"/"swoop" aerial move or using the element of surprise to land a decisive initial blow.

I agree that no buff spells have been mentioned, as I don't know how one would class Maggie's "Ephedra" spell, which did seem to me to boost (or only restore?) Parson's alertness and mental acuity.

[Lamech]

Yeah, because log scale table top wargames are really common out there. Hmm, I don't think so. Mind citing an example? Otherwise we may as well start discussing if the comic is in english or not, because they could be using some kind of really sophisticated language wich looks like english but isn't.

Erm... when I said log I meant if a units attack is "x" higher than another units, the first unit has an attack that is "y" times more powerful. Or any system that where their is exponential growth or decay. And umm... DnD 3.5uses a log scale (with rounding) for xp determination, from monster with a set CR amount: Increase level by two half xp gain. Decrease level by two double xp gain. In fact I think it uses a log-scale for creature power and CR. Two monster are supposed to be as strong as one with two CR higher...

Anyway, this doesn't seem like a war-game to me. Its more like a civilization type game. And I'm not sure how they combat attack power, it is all hidden.

Finally, they are speaking Language, not english... please note how "artifact" means the complete oppisite in Language, as it does in english.

[Whispri]

I agree that no buff spells have been mentioned, as I don't know how one would class Maggie's "Ephedra" spell, which did seem to me to boost (or only restore?) Parson's alertness and mental acuity.

A specialised healing spell I think.

[fendrin]

...Otherwise we may as well start discussing if the comic is in english or not, because they could be using some kind of really sophisticated language wich looks like english but isn't.

Oh don't get me started, I'm in the midst of writing a paper on that very topic (well, not Erfworld specific). Basically I'm arguing that everyone uses their own version of a language, and only understand each other properly when those 'versions' are sufficiently similar. It solves a lot of the problems with understanding how language works (particularly what a name is and how it works).

Like I said, don't get me started...

[Oslecamo]

Erm... when I said log I meant if a units attack is "x" higher than another units, the first unit has an attack that is "y" times more powerful. Or any system that where their is exponential growth or decay. And umm... DnD 3.5uses a log scale (with rounding) for xp determination, from monster with a set CR amount: Increase level by two half xp gain. Decrease level by two double xp gain. In fact I think it uses a log-scale for creature power and CR. Two monster are supposed to be as strong as one with two CR higher...

Suposed. That's the right word. In the end it was a big confusion that took a BIG deal of work from the DM to make it work and wotc they simply threw all the log scales out of the windown when making 4e. Two monsters are now twice the challenge for the players, and twice the experience.

Anyway, this doesn't seem like a war-game to me. Its more like a civilization type game. And I'm not sure how they combat attack power, it is all hidden.

Where's the civilization part? We only see military units, the guys in comand are the strongest in combat, and you don't really see much nonmilitary buildings.

Diplomacy is kept to a minimum, and "hack them untill they stop moving" seems to be the most popular tactic around.

FAQ tried to become a nonmilitar nation, and even then they had to rely on air raids to survive. And then they got wiped out.

Finally, they are speaking Language, not english... please note how "artifact" means the complete oppisite in Language, as it does in english.

The oposite? I don't understand that part. Artifacts are magic items in Efworld, just like everywhere else.

[Godskook]

I agree that no buff spells have been mentioned, as I don't know how one would class Maggie's "Ephedra" spell, which did seem to me to boost (or only restore?) Parson's alertness and mental acuity.

I assume that "Ephedra" falls into the general Esuna/Panacea remedy spell class. Some FF games obsess over them, to my dismay, while others keep it relatively simple.

[Lamech]

Where's the civilization part? We only see military units, the guys in comand are the strongest in combat, and you don't really see much nonmilitary buildings.

Diplomacy is kept to a minimum, and "hack them untill they stop moving" seems to be the most popular tactic around.

FAQ tried to become a nonmilitar nation, and even then they had to rely on air raids to survive. And then they got wiped out.

Hmm... maybe more like total war, civilization sprang to mind first. Jillian mentioned both farms and mines. And "diplomacy is kept to a minimum?" Err... The alliance, and Charlie all have diplomatic relationships...

The oposite? I don't understand that part. Artifacts are magic items in Efworld, just like everywhere else.

Umm... No? Artifacts are things made by humans... in english at least. In Erfworld they are things NOT made by men.

[Goshen]

In a previous thread, another poster kept insisting that all my comments were motivated by my positive opinion of Stanley despite my statements to the contrary. So I croaked and uncroaked Ansom.

......... LOL

[DevilDan]

I assume that "Ephedra" falls into the general Esuna/Panacea remedy spell class. Some FF games obsess over them, to my dismay, while others keep it relatively simple.

Not to nitpick, but ephedra is used as a stimulant. A proper healing spell would be something like "acetaminophen"...

[Godskook]

Not to nitpick, but ephedra is used as a stimulant. A proper healing spell would be something like "acetaminophen"...

Hmm....I stand corrected. That means it is either a buff spell(haste like effect) or it could still be a remedy spell(cures 'tired'). 'Course, the line between buff spells and remedy spells is paper-thin in some places.