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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Stuff actually happened! I'm so excited. I can't wait to see what is in that revised contract.

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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    So does Hamster get the pliers AND the flying carpet too? Can't wait to see that!

    Charlie creeps me out. How long has he had that contract prepared for?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    The question isn't anymore, "who will win, Parson or Ansom?", but "who will lose less, and watch Charley scoop the market".
    Charlie is working with old knowledge - i.e., how many Archons does he need to take GK with Ansom holding the Arkenpliers.

    Also, who knows, Parson may have done the Arithimancy figuring that Wanda was out of the battle for a bit.

    Throw in a return by Stanley and the Lucky Charm breakfast, and Charlie may discover that his information is too stale and he looses the battle.

    Think about it, Charlie and his Arkendish connection clearly rely on knowing things before others, on having more information than the other party. It would be ironic if he was beat at his own game because he got overconfident.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Faltenin View Post
    So does Hamster get the pliers AND the flying carpet too? Can't wait to see that!

    Charlie creeps me out. How long has he had that contract prepared for?
    Ansom has been balking on a standard contract agreement. My bet is Charlie had an amended version prepped once he ran the numbers by Parson. I.e., he was betting on Ansom doing something stupid and now is prepared to laugh his way to the bank.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBrowncoat View Post
    Why do they have to stay and re-stack? Why did they un-stack in the first place?
    My read is that they were re-configuring the stacking to separate Wanda and her mount (going after the Arkenpliers) and the other units (going after Ansom).

    I have to agree with the earlier poster that turn-based mechanics get quite confusing and messy if alliances and mercenary agreements can be made and take effect during a single turn.
    True; my guess is that since Charlescomm has taken its turn, they can't also take Jetstone's turn during the same day -- shifting alliances can change when your turn comes during the day (e.g. Jillian's excursion force) but can't give two turns in the same day (that would just be too powerful).

    However, the Archons would be able to help defend Ansom, and could perhaps reunite him with his carpet (they're both in the same hex) if he gives Charlie a reason to do so by signing the deal.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispri View Post
    Magic Staff? It wouldn't have to hold out for long.
    Magic staff vs. Artifact 'pliers... I suppose it's possible, but the 'what have you done to it?' makes me feel like there is more at work than a simple weapon bind at work. Besides, Wanda using magic to 'trap' a weapon fits her better than her being a skilled martial artist (weapon binds are tricky, speaking from experience)...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBrowncoat View Post
    Why do they have to stay and re-stack? Why did they un-stack in the first place?
    They are unstacking because Wanda is moving from airspace zone to the courtyard zone to claim the pliers, but wants to have the rest of her stack to stay in the airspace/go to the walls so that they can capture Ansom.

    I'm presuming that charlie cannot send his archons into the courtyard because it's not his turn... which makes letting the pliers fall (rather than grabbing them right then) a smart move on Wanda's part.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Contract terms include Charlie getting Parson, Parson's artifact, and the pliers. Charlie will wreak havok on the uncroaked and target Parson for capture.
    Wanda will get the pliers. They will be croakamancy attuned. She will get command over something nasty, but is fighting a losing battle against the Archons. Seige comes in soon too.
    Stanley comes home, Dwagons and Foolamancer make all the difference.

    That's where I see this going, excited to see exactly how it'll play out.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    True; my guess is that since Charlescomm has taken its turn, they can't also take Jetstone's turn during the same day -- shifting alliances can change when your turn comes during the day (e.g. Jillian's excursion force) but can't give two turns in the same day (that would just be too powerful).
    Ever played a game with a "withhold action" function? That's what it seems the Archons have done, being fully able to attack but choosing to withhold that action for later. Allying with Jetstone would probably also enable them to use move, if they have any left.

    What I'm thinking at this moment is that Wanda is going to attune to the pliers and give a majorly scary buff to all the undead nearby. All that talk with the bats seems to be a setup for this.

    As for Ansome, it seems that he'll be left with no choice but to accept or perish. It might be wiser for him to take the perish option, but I doubt he will.
    "The nicest evil guy you'll ever meet."

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Oh... dear... Wanda is going for the Pliers... what will happen if she attunes? Or if she is already? That would explain the Arkenpliers not working. (Which I think is the case from the grunting on Ansom's part.)

    Anyway, I wonder if that contract is something like...
    In return for payment in the form of...
    1) Jetstone's chief warlord
    2) The arkenpliers
    3) "x" shmuckers
    Charlescomm will render the following services
    1) Capturing GK. Please note that the capture of GK does not involve turning over GK, or any units or items therein.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    So the tactical situation...

    If Ansom touches the 'I accept' button, Parson automatically looses control of his airspace just due to the presance of CharlesComm forces, but will then surely loose the walls as well as at least a few archons will blast Webinar and Dora out of the sky and cover Ansom's statuesque keister, thus allowing the hole that he was trying to make in the first place. The rest of the Archons will have direct access to engage Parson's garrison. And all of this can happen NOW (otherwise why call for help from Charlie if he can't help this turn), negating a save at the last moment by Stanely. Even if Wanda does get the pliers, and they do attune to her, the inhabitants will be very hard pressed to hold Gobwin Knob.

    Ok now for my wild and baseless predictions for the coming battle:

    1. Wanda aquires the pliers ( I am not decided about attunement)
    2. Bogroll sacrafices himself to save Parson in the coming melee
    3. Our friend the dirtomancer makes a final and brave stand in the tunnels taking many of the enemy with him, and eventually collapsing Gobwin Knob.
    4. Parson and Wanda manage to flee the city and meet up with Stanely.
    5. Translvito forces are either in route to Gobwin Knob or returning home.
    6. Stanely and the survivors from Gobwin Knob leave for parts unknown, and not FAQ as it has been discovered. End Chapter.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by ocdscale View Post
    Contract terms include Charlie getting Parson, Parson's artifact, and the pliers.
    Definitely ... that fits in with Charlie knowing how powerful Parson really is and Ansom looking down on the Hampster.

    Good call!

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    - What have you done to it?
    I think Ansom may be referring to his carpet. I think the "when to pull a thread" poem may in fact have been pulling the carpet's threads, cuasing it to malfunction. He couldn't control it, which affected his ability to wield the Arkenpliers and allowed Zombinar to disarm and unseat Ansom.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafnir13 View Post
    Ever played a game with a "withhold action" function? That's what it seems the Archons have done, being fully able to attack but choosing to withhold that action for later. Allying with Jetstone would probably also enable them to use move, if they have any left.
    Yes, I think that is a given and it bears out with how I think Charlie worded it (lag is too great right now to check. )

    The question is however does Charlie have to wait until after the Jetstone turn to act or can he go ahead and act now during the Jetstone turn?

    If he can engage right away, he has a huge advantage. If he has to wait until Jetstone does an end turn, then it either restricts what Ansom can do or it allows Parson/Wanda to do additional damage.

    You have to admit that Wanda did some awesome damage whilst it was the Jetstone turn!

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Okay, i've got a question.

    In page 119 the uncroaked Archon is in formation behind Wanda and her assorted Uncroaked. In page 120 the archon is nowhere to be seen.


    So, Where did Wanda send the Archon?


    Who wants to bet it's going to engage the currently living archons at some point? Also I think Wanda is going to Snag the Arkenpliers and get something big and terrifying with which to fight the archons.

    As it stands now Charlie brought enough Archons to take GK, they need a major advantage to even the scales again. Since the Archons are Charlie's Arkendish Bonus, whatever the attuned Arkenpliers bonus is should be enough to even the odds.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    So when does Charlie get his turn?

    I.e., originally it was before Ansom's turn. He passed on it.

    Does that mean he gets to go with Ansom once he becomes an ally?

    Or does he have to wait until after Ansom does an end turn?

    Mechanically, the turn based stuff seems off. Or is it just which side has initiative? I.e., Ansom has to attack before Wanda can engage him in his turn?
    Charlie's Archons are already in the city hex. Turn issues aren't.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    The archons can not move from the hex, but they are free to function inside the hex. They need to be careful with one thing though. They can not get in contact with unlead RCC stacks, for they'll attack. Not a big problem, since RCC has no fliers.

    On the other hand, if Charlie joins RCC then on the next day they'll change to RCC's turn, that is, after Parson's. This will allow for Stanley to arrive and change the odds again.
    Last edited by teratorn; 2008-12-09 at 05:08 PM.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    I wonder how binding the contract really is?

    It sure looks like a click-through EULA licensing agreement.

    I can see Ansom, "Your honor, I was dazed by the fall. I accepted the original terms that Charlescomm presented and as all I had to do was click, I didn't read the fine print."

    Or, "That isn't my signature your honor, anyone could have clicked on the 'I Accept' button!"

    Humor aside, I'm guessing that "Terms of Alliance" are more binding than oral agreements, such as Charlie made to not attack Parson.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    I have pulled the contract as best I could. What follows is the 'unaltered' version, that is merely the letters I think I see.

    Ansom
    etstone
    a bind
    ol for(el for)
    tool(tual)
    tion with
    for the
    agreement in
    for a term not less th-- two
    more than twelve tur
    mence upon indicat
    tance of the followin

    Compensation shal
    Charlescomm by Jet
    This version adds some knee-jerk theorizing. Have fun:

    Ansom
    etstone
    a bind
    ol for(el for)
    tool(tual)
    tion with
    for the
    agreement in
    for a term not less than two nor
    more than twelve turns to com-
    mence upon indication of accep-
    tance of the following by Ansom

    Compensation shal
    Charlescomm by Jet

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Here's my take. Assuming this is a new alliance with Jetstone, here's what I'm unsure of:

    1. Does Charlie have to wait until tomorrow to act since his turn has ended already? Or did he hold action?

    2. If he DOES have to wait, now that he's allied with Jetstone again, does that mean that he now also has to wait until Jetstone's turn? If so, that means that GK will get another turn before Charlie can actually do anything.

    The updates are never fast enough!

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Magic staff vs. Artifact 'pliers... I suppose it's possible, but the 'what have you done to it?' makes me feel like there is more at work than a simple weapon bind at work. Besides, Wanda using magic to 'trap' a weapon fits her better than her being a skilled martial artist (weapon binds are tricky, speaking from experience)...
    She used no magic words so she didn't cast a spell. And her staff wasn't glowing. He's pretty arrogant and he was losing, does there really need to be more to it? There was an effect glare in panel one, but that does look a similar colour to the light the Arkenpliers have produced in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    He spent part of his last turn (after the ambush) headed back to GK, which makes it possible that he could get back next turn. I don't see any way he could already be back (even leaving out the time/distance issues, can you really imagine him just sitting there under veil and not getting involved?)
    He had thirty Dwagons, only twenty four of which were the shorter ranged 'B' Dwagons. If the Dwagon with the lowest move had only, say eight move left when he fled the City, a range limt of 42, and he only had to move a short distance, call it five hexes, to hit the ambush, then some of the 'A' Dwagons could have made it back from there. The higher those numbers are the harder it gets of course, but it's far from impossible. Remember the size of his personal mount, I'm thinking high level when I look at that.

    And yeah, I can see him waiting, the sight of the Archons and the Uncroaked on the Walls would have given anyone pause.
    Last edited by Whispri; 2008-12-09 at 05:20 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    I'm presuming that charlie cannot send his archons into the courtyard because it's not his turn... which makes letting the pliers fall (rather than grabbing them right then) a smart move on Wanda's part.
    That is a GREAT point. Once she lands and grabs the pliers, I imagine she can duck right back into the garrison zone, since it requires no move to move between zones in a city hex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafnir13
    What I'm thinking at this moment is that Wanda is going to attune to the pliers and give a majorly scary buff to all the undead nearby. All that talk with the bats seems to be a setup for this.
    I agree, that would be brilliant foreshadowing and setup exposition.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by chpicker View Post
    Here's my take. Assuming this is a new alliance with Jetstone, here's what I'm unsure of:

    1. Does Charlie have to wait until tomorrow to act since his turn has ended already? Or did he hold action?

    2. If he DOES have to wait, now that he's allied with Jetstone again, does that mean that he now also has to wait until Jetstone's turn? If so, that means that GK will get another turn before Charlie can actually do anything.

    The updates are never fast enough!
    On page 119, Parson states that Charlie's Archons can attack any forces he puts up. So, ignoring what we know about turns, Parson believes they are in danger.

    Oh, sweet on page 105, CharlesNChrg states: "I won't leave your airspace. But I'll end turn and wait for a winner."

    That presumes that he did declare his turn was over, but since Stanley had to wait for Charlie to end turn before he could start turn, I think that Charlie didn't delay but end...

    Also, it is on 105 that Parson does the calculations of odds of 3 to 2. And it is in 106 that he gets the Ruthlessness from a full sword and the box of Luckamancy Charms. Both of which should change the odds. I think Charlie is in for a world of hurt.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    So when does Charlie get his turn?

    I.e., originally it was before Ansom's turn. He passed on it.

    Does that mean he gets to go with Ansom once he becomes an ally?

    Or does he have to wait until after Ansom does an end turn?

    Mechanically, the turn based stuff seems off. Or is it just which side has initiative? I.e., Ansom has to attack before Wanda can engage him in his turn?
    Charlie's turn will be on Ansom's turn...
    However, during this turn, WHEN charlie's turn is now is moot

    Charlie's archons are ALREADY in gobwinknob airspace... as such they can launch and move at anytime they wish within the airspace. i read them being in the airspace like them being in the same hex as parson. This is why parson was so worried about Charlie becuase he felt that charlie could attack at anytime, namely any air forces he launches

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispri View Post
    He had thirty Dwagons, only twenty four of which were the shorter ranged 'B' Dwagons. If the Dwagon with the lowest move had only, say eight move left when he fled the City, a range limt of 42, and he only had to move a short distance, call it five hexes, to hit the ambush, then some of the 'A' Dwagons could have made it back from there. The higher those numbers are the harder it gets of course, but it's far from impossible. Remember the size of his personal mount, I'm thinking high level when I look at that.
    Also remember that Jillian took two turns (using the alliance-shift exploit to get two of their turns in between two of Stanley's turns) to reach the choke point with a force of 26+ Move flying units.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    I wonder how binding the contract really is?

    It sure looks like a click-through EULA licensing agreement.
    <law student>
    Well, no, this is more like a service contract, i.e. I do this for you in exchange for this kind of payment. A license agreement, on the other hand, typically grants the use of intellectual property subject to certain conditions.
    </law student>

    And I'm reasonably confident that Charlie knows how to write a legally binding contract... whether its magically binding or not might be something to consider. And the fun part would come if he agrees to give away the pliers, which aren't in his possession any more to be able to give away, and what happens if he can't pay up to Charlie.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by Faltenin View Post
    So does Hamster get the pliers AND the flying carpet too? Can't wait to see that!
    me neither. the carpet might also be good for 1 or 2 jokes (it's been rolled up ever since ansom's night with jillian, right?)

    True; my guess is that since Charlescomm has taken its turn, they can't also take Jetstone's turn during the same day -- shifting alliances can change when your turn comes during the day (e.g. Jillian's excursion force) but can't give two turns in the same day (that would just be too powerful).
    wasn't that the exact purpose of charlie being released from merc service and then being hired by transilvito (well, theoretically)?

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Charlie's giving me a Ben from Lost vibe right now.
    I.e. No matter how bad things may look for him at any given point, HE GETS WHAT HE WANTS. Always.

    What would you like to bet that the Arkenpliers will a) attune to Wanda, and b) drastically improve the power of the uncroaked under her control?

    Pclips, Jami, if you guys happen to read this, love, love, LOVE the new update. Well done. Can't wait for the book.
    Custom Erfworld avatar: Bogroll as Parson. Thanks to Rob, Jamie, and SteveMB.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by randomnondescri View Post
    And I'm reasonably confident that Charlie knows how to write a legally binding contract... whether its magically binding or not might be something to consider. And the fun part would come if he agrees to give away the pliers, which aren't in his possession any more to be able to give away, and what happens if he can't pay up to Charlie.
    Agreed, classic fairy tale dilemma and likely to happen.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Also remember that Jillian took two turns (using the alliance-shift exploit to get two of their turns in between two of Stanley's turns) to reach the choke point with a force of 26+ Move flying units.
    Then given that she had to use up move to enter the City, if they took the same route she did, it's even possible that some of the top 'B' Dwagons could make it back in one turn. It all depends on how far they were from the ambush.

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    Default Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    I think Wanda will retrieve the pliers before Stanley engages and be able to retreat to safety. She's the speculated predictamancer, so she's probably seen this moment for years.
    Seeing as she is skilled at multiple magical disciplines, she could be Faq's missing predictamancer. But if she foresaw this specific incident, why was she preparing to leave to go bail out Stanley?

    "Unstack" would be "leave my stack" and "restacks" would be "form your own stack." I'd hazard to guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    The archons can not move from the hex, but they are free to function inside the hex. They need to be careful with one thing though. They can not get in contact with unlead RCC stacks, for they'll attack. Not a big problem, since RCC has no fliers.
    If they can switch sides, it won't be a problem. Note, though, that archons may be casters or may otherwise have leadership. In addition, we don't know what control the arkendish gives to Charlie; speculating ex nihilo, Charlie could function as a long-distance leader.

    Charlie was quite prepared to extract serious concessions from Ansom when things got dicey: "Don't laugh, champ. It might be true."
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0117.html
    Last edited by DevilDan; 2008-12-09 at 05:56 PM.
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