133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120

[grumbleboom]

One last thing before i fade back into the shadows...

Charlescomm already ended turn. If they join the alliance, I don't think they would be able to attack. Defend, yes... Attack, no... If they can, that would be a HUGELY exploitable rule and I would really have to call shenanigans.

[teratorn]

By my count, Jillian had at least 5 unipegataurs and 6-8 gwiffons before Wanda attacked. Only 4 of those gwiffons made it to the pass. Disregarding Orly causalties, thats at least 8-10 sizeable units that the AA took down.

She had something like 13 gwiffons, at least that's the number of yellow thingies I count when she approaches Wanda. I don't think gwiffons were killed by Wanda.

At the time of the donut of doom there were 5 gwiffons with a rather large move (24+ when she got rid of Webinar). One of them got killed in the fight. It makes sense that the surviving four are the ones that went with Jillian to the ambush site. The rest should be halfway, ready to be used if Stanley had made it and needed to be hunted, or to go back to the column if needed.

Jillian probably still has a lot of units with her.

[Kreistor]

Grumbleboom, you'd be right. The author has already verified that Charlescomm has ended turn and can't get another this round.

Author on the turn rules

[teratorn]

One last thing before i fade back into the shadows...

Charlescomm already ended turn. If they join the alliance, I don't think they would be able to attack. Defend, yes... Attack, no... If they can, that would be a HUGELY exploitable rule and I would really have to call shenanigans.

It's more a question of zones inisde city hexes, if charlescomm can move between zones outside of their turn. They could attack Wanda while she flew there, no problems there (TV and Jillian actively attacked Stanley on his turn ). The question was if they could enter another zone outside of their turn. The authors have clarified that, they can not.

[vrellum]

So if Charlie allies with Ansom GK will get to go before Charlie and RCC can act again. Would that give time for Stanley to make it back? I think it might.

[Godskook]

She had something like 13 gwiffons, at least that's the number of yellow thingies I count when she approaches Wanda. I don't think gwiffons were killed by Wanda.

Why? Gut feeling or something in the comic?

At the time of the donut of doom there were 5 gwiffons with a rather large move (24+ when she got rid of Webinar). One of them got killed in the fight. It makes sense that the surviving four are the ones that went with Jillian to the ambush site. The rest should be halfway, ready to be used if Stanley had made it and needed to be hunted, or to go back to the column if needed.

I'm fairly certain that all Gwiffons have a max move stat of at least ~40. Reason being that we know that Jillian's personal Gwiffon has a max 50+ move. I believe that most of the time, when we hear talk of move, they are referring to current_move, rather than max_move. Given that the only time we here of a 4 move gwiffon, its a used one, and Jillian orders Webinar to conduct a search that would expend 4 move to do, we know that Webinar's mount must have had a max_move higher than 4. This sort of confusion is rather easy, and happens from time to time with the HP stat, since no one bothers to say max_hp or current_hp.

Finally, two questions:

If some gwiffons couldn't make the full trip to the mountain pass, why did Jillian not leave them behind with Ansom? Ansom really could've used some flyers.

If all the gwiffons could've made the pass in time, why would Jillian leave some behind, considering the facts that she doubted it was possible with what they did have with them and considering the loss in forces they received before TV ended turn(Wanda's blast and Charlie's double-cross).

Jillian probably still has a lot of units with her.

Unless you're right, and Jillian has a pack of gwiffons hidden in some hex, no she doesn't, outside TV forces. She has 4 or less gwiffons and whatever orlys that survived the fight with Stanley(admittedly, we don't know when Jack started casting nor how capable illusions are at damage).

[teratorn]

If some gwiffons couldn't make the full trip to the mountain pass, why did Jillian not leave them behind with Ansom? Ansom really could've used some flyers.
.

She could not, she would need a warlord from her side to stay with them to prevent them from attacking the coalition as soon as she left their stack.

[kreszantas]

Jillian was given command of the all the fliers, her turn combined with Transylvito's turn would allow all the ones she took with her to make it, has she not decided to stop and have tea with Wanda on the way.

Her classification of Barbarian means that Jetstone could not "absorb" her troops to their side while she was out. Vinny indicates he has the control not Ansom by saying I should have left bats in the column.

Note only the units with the commands being given outside the wall are obeying (the bluish tin hats similar to jetstone) match that style the Uniroyal or the one giving the order to hurry the siege up.

Note also none of Sofa King or the Redhead commanders units doing ANYTHING since they have not ordered it. Ansom may LEAD the RCC but he can not force another faction to do something against that Kingdoms best wishes. Tarfu and the forest gumps with the 3 dragons is a good example of this as well.

[SteveMB]

Nice comic. I believe ansom wanting to ally to charlie, is so that the archons can 'legally' defend him, being in the same space.

Apparently, they aren't exactly in the same space; the Archons are in GK airspace and Ansom is on the outer walls. (Even when he was flying, he was apparently still in "outer walls" rather than "airspace" in Erf-mechanics, enabling him to engage the mass of uncroaked -- that's a distinction that eluded me earlier.)

If he makes a deal with Charlie, the Archons could engage the flying uncroaked (they're both in GK airspace). Even if they can't engage the uncroaked ground-pounders on the walls, they may be so individually weak that Ansom can hold them off even without the Arkenpliers; he's still a rather strong unit in his own right.

[teratorn]

Why? Gut feeling or something in the comic?

Where did the other fliers fall? Ansom didn't find any remains outside of the walls or the other RCC leaders would have commented on that. If there were gwiffons inside the walls why didn't Wanda try to uncroak them? Gwiffons are rather powerful.

Apparently, they aren't exactly in the same space; the Archons are in GK airspace and Ansom is on the outer walls. (Even when he was flying, he was apparently still in "outer walls" rather than "airspace" in Erf-mechanics, enabling him to engage the mass of uncroaked -- that's a distinction that eluded me earlier.)

Good point, but if he jumps from the wall? Is that airspace? Can the archons pick him up?

[Surprise!]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html

I find it interesting we have seen any GK forces of the race of men yet. The 135 Pikers, and 48 Stabbers have remained invisible throughout the entirety of the comic.

[teratorn]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html

RCC units surrounded the city during that same turn. If there were dead gwiffons or unipegataurs around them, they would have seen them. They would only disappear next morning. Wanda had a lot of time to play with her new toys before Ansom ended turn, so she could have uncroaked the extra units (even in a weaker form), had any of them fallen inside the walls.

It's possible they all died, but we only saw 4 of them croaking. Until Jillian gets back we won't know for sure.

[Surprise!]

RCC units surrounded the city during that same turn. If there were dead gwiffons or unipegataurs around them, they would have seen them. They would only disappear next morning. Wanda had a lot of time to play with her new toys before Ansom ended turn, so she could have uncroaked the extra units (even in a weaker form), had any of them fallen inside the walls.

It's possible they all died, but we only saw 4 of them croaking. Until Jillian gets back we won't know for sure.

But it is also true the more time she spends on the less amount of units, the stronger they will be. Perhaps she was going for quality over quantity. And we don't know if the Gwriffons are stronger then the unipegataurs

[teratorn]

But it is also true the more time she spends on the less amount of units, the stronger they will be. Perhaps she was going for quality over quantity. And we don't know if the Gwriffons are stronger then the unipegataurs

Yes, it's possible, maybe she would need a huge investment to make an uncroaked gwiffon fly. If there are only 3 gwiffons left that means that even after the ambush GK has a bigger flying force that RCC. They'd really need the archons. Stanley's arrival on next turn could end the battle.

But until Jillian comes back we have no certainty on this. If there were dead gwiffons inside the walls, Parson could have been snacking on them.

[Gez]

Where did the other fliers fall? Ansom didn't find any remains outside of the walls or the other RCC leaders would have commented on that. If there were gwiffons inside the walls why didn't Wanda try to uncroak them? Gwiffons are rather powerful.

Parson ate them for breakfast. They were deliciously stale and crunchy.

Either that or the attack was powerful enough to utterly destroy some of the units, leaving no corpse.

[Eraniverse]

105 - Charlie was planning on attacking Gobwin Knob to collect the Mathamancy watch artifact and, if possible, Parson. (Or, at least, that's what he was claiming he would do.) That changed when Parson offered him the Arkenpliers. Afterwards, his stated plan was to hold back and "watch the show" unless Ansom offers enough for assistance- which means he risks losing the watch and Parson entirely. (A 40% chance of Parson being overwhelmed next turn is not negligable.) So either:

A) Parson is right, and Charles wants the pliers bad enough to take a substantial risk for them.

or

B) Charles enjoys watching a well-fought battle enough to risk substantial loss for no other purpose.

Option "B" is not impossible given human (or Erfworlder) nature, but I do find it less likely.

Well there's a couple factors that weigh towards B.

1. Charles would have had to conquer the city solo to capture Parson immeadiately. Losses inevitable. By engaging selectively from the airspace without needing to actually send Archons to capture the city he can be in a support role and still achieve his goals.

2. Capturing the city directly would make it clear to everyone involved that there was something Charles wanted in GK especially if he departed next turn leaving the new city undefended. Why tip his hand?

3. Further independent action reminds the other kingdom that Charlescomm isn't just your friendly neighborhood mercenary, but actually a full fledged faction with goals and objectives all of its own.

[DevilDan]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html

I find it interesting we have seen any GK forces of the race of men yet. The 135 Pikers, and 48 Stabbers have remained invisible throughout the entirety of the comic.

They may be more valuable and powerful than cannon fodder uncroaked. There may even be an element of racism in Stanley's original troop deployments. However, we know that Parson would not let that affect his plans.

Either that or the attack was powerful enough to utterly destroy some of the units, leaving no corpse.

I mentioned this before. But we could also speculate that a minimum level X of energy in needed to uncroak a unit such that it retains its natural flight ability. As such, the flying units seen were all that Wanda could raise to that level after having spent some of her strength using/invoking the air defenses. By the next turn, the rest of the corpses will have disappeared.

I still stand by the assertion that the archons can at any moment attack any unit in GK's airspace; they don't need Ansom or to ally with GK to do that. Why else would Parson ask Charlie for what was essentially permission to sortie Wanda and her flight group?

[JazzManJim]

Well there's a couple factors that weigh towards B.

1. Charles would have had to conquer the city solo to capture Parson immeadiately. Losses inevitable. By engaging selectively from the airspace without needing to actually send Archons to capture the city he can be in a support role and still achieve his goals.

2. Capturing the city directly would make it clear to everyone involved that there was something Charles wanted in GK especially if he departed next turn leaving the new city undefended. Why tip his hand?

3. Further independent action reminds the other kingdom that Charlescomm isn't just your friendly neighborhood mercenary, but actually a full fledged faction with goals and objectives all of its own.

There's no reason for Charlie to act independently right now. He can enter an alliance with Jetstone via an agreement and, when victory is imminent, break the alliance and go before Jetstone to capture Parson.

I think Parson knows that and needs to make sure that the turn order remains the way it is in order to keep Charlie "honest" until he gets the Arkenpliers. That's another reason I think that Jack may have Stanley headed toward Charlescomm instead of GK. I suspect that Charlie doesn't have enough units at home to hold off Stanley's stack, so he's going to have to bring Archons back from GK. If he does, he won't be able to wait until after GK's turn to do it. He'll have to move more quickly, which means no alliance with Jetstone.

I could be wrong, though, in that his agreement with Jetstone may not constitute an alliance. It would seem an awful cheat if it didn't, though.

[DarkCloud]

If I were representing Ansom, I'd argue that this constitutes an unconscionable adhesion contract, particularly if the terms have changed.

Hm... Possibly, although if Ansom gets 'some' value, as in his life, that would appear to be proportional and worthy enough as inducement. Therefore, neither side would necessarily be unjustly enriched.

Ansom could always make that argument though.

[vrellum]

There's no reason for Charlie to act independently right now. He can enter an alliance with Jetstone via an agreement and, when victory is imminent, break the alliance and go before Jetstone to capture Parson.

I think Parson knows that and needs to make sure that the turn order remains the way it is in order to keep Charlie "honest" until he gets the Arkenpliers. That's another reason I think that Jack may have Stanley headed toward Charlescomm instead of GK. I suspect that Charlie doesn't have enough units at home to hold off Stanley's stack, so he's going to have to bring Archons back from GK. If he does, he won't be able to wait until after GK's turn to do it. He'll have to move more quickly, which means no alliance with Jetstone.

I could be wrong, though, in that his agreement with Jetstone may not constitute an alliance. It would seem an awful cheat if it didn't, though.

But Parson will get the pliers on Ansom's part of this turn. If Charlie joins up with RCC then Charlie's troops won't get to do anything other than attack airborne troops this turn. Next turn they won't get to go until RCC, which is after GK. If they don't ally then Charlie gets to go before GK. So it looks like there is a small penalty for Charlie to ally with RCC as it allows Parson to regroup, heal, perhaps unlock some of the powers of the pliers and it might allow for Stanley to return all before Charlie and RCC get to act. If Charlie does not ally with RCC then Charlie will get to go before GK next turn.

[kreszantas]

Either I am missing something or some are trying to read to much into the lastest Ansom / Charlie exchange. Simply put Ansom could not seal the deal, as soon as his royal boop is on the line he has call on others to do "things" for him. I think the re-alliance may and I say may be the final straw that causes the rest to break mid-turn, or possibly the ones that are sitting already on the sidelines.

Plus if his will is the Titan's will this SHOULD have served as a wake up call to Ansom, but alas it has not. Fate magic has worked against him and with the way he has presented the pliers as "his saving grace" or "his device he relies on" too many times. The pliers (with a little help) have/had a mind of their own and decided to pick a new friend. Now we also do not know that Wanda actually getting the pliers may actually harm her instead, all we know is that Ansom held them and used it as "superior weapon against undead".

This is all apart of the "plot/story" hook we are on so let us read/see it play out.

[SpacemanSpif]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html

I find it interesting we have seen any GK forces of the race of men yet. The 135 Pikers, and 48 Stabbers have remained invisible throughout the entirety of the comic.

I see no reason not to think that the Pikers, Stabbers and Archers are not all Gobwins, just as the fighters and knights are.

I only just noticed that the K. I. S. S. are gobwins today (check out their little horns) and without that information the chart is more confusing, but it looks to me like all of the infantry listed in that strip are gobwins.

[SeraphRainy]

I see no reason not to think that the Pikers, Stabbers and Archers are not all Gobwins, just as the fighters and knights are.

I only just noticed that the K. I. S. S. are gobwins today (check out their little horns) and without that information the chart is more confusing, but it looks to me like all of the infantry listed in that strip are gobwins.

I agree. I was puzzled at first but then thought, the knights could be hobgobwins. (Bigger meaner gobwins.) And it makes a distenction between fighters. (Low level) Pikers.(mid to high level) and Stabbers (mid level) these are probably subtypes of infantry. This was further re-enforced by the stip were Hamster and Stanley are reviewing troops and they walk past the Gobwin pikers, "Very fierce."

[Surprise!]

I see no reason not to think that the Pikers, Stabbers and Archers are not all Gobwins, just as the fighters and knights are.

I only just noticed that the K. I. S. S. are gobwins today (check out their little horns) and without that information the chart is more confusing, but it looks to me like all of the infantry listed in that strip are gobwins.

The list specifies goblin and uncroaked units already though. Those entries just say stabber, pikers, and archers. Besides where did Lord Manpower the Temporary come from?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html

Wanda say fewer then 200 living MEN

[Surprise!]

That's another reason I think that Jack may have Stanley headed toward Charlescomm instead of GK. I suspect that Charlie doesn't have enough units at home to hold off Stanley's stack, so he's going to have to bring Archons back from GK. If he does, he won't be able to wait until after GK's turn to do it. He'll have to move more quickly, which means no alliance with Jetstone.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html

Jack mentions that they are flying back to Gobwin Knob, No doubt with Vinnie and the rest hot on their heels. By a plot perspective I am betting that Commander Zamussel will rescue Ansom in the nic of time.

[SeraphRainy]

No, ok your right Suprise. It does say living men and the warlords make sense then. But it bugs me, and Im sure others, that we just havnt seen them yet.

Also there has been some speculaition that Stanley would return next turn however, didn't he have to take two turns to get out there. Wasnt that why Jack was veiling them. (Albeti poorly.)

[Surprise!]

No, ok your right Suprise. It does say living men and the warlords make sense then. But it bugs me, and Im sure others, that we just havnt seen them yet.

Also there has been some speculaition that Stanley would return next turn however, didn't he have to take two turns to get out there. Wasnt that why Jack was veiling them. (Albeti poorly.)

Yeah, I was wondering about that, Zamussel says that is because Stanley is unfamiliar with the territory. Which is why her units got there a turn before. Perhaps if the course was chosen by the Titans, then they sent him down the fasts way that Zamussel used.

[DevilDan]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html

Jack mentions that they are flying back to Gobwin Knob, No doubt with Vinnie and the rest hot on their heels. By a plot perspective I am betting that Commander Zamussel will rescue Ansom in the nic of time.

Jillian cannot, I believe, move until Transylvito's next turn; if she allies back with the RCC, this would actually push her move back to after GK at the very least.

[Whispri]

The Uncroaked Archon... could she be hiding inside the carpet? Cleopatra style I mean. Items can resize so it could have molded around her and, well, where else could she be?

[teratorn]

Also there has been some speculaition that Stanley would return next turn however, didn't he have to take two turns to get out there.

It depends, Jack may know the shortest way to get out of the mountains.