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Allright, so I’m playing in a campaign, and while my current cleric has yet to pass on, i wanted to create a character ahead of time so i don’t waste an entire session getting him ready.
After seeing it in my DM's monster manual, i remembered that I’ve always wanted to play a choker, but never got around to it. so I’ve come up with the following; anything i should remove/edit? any assistance would be appreciated.
~~Final Result~~ Choker
Type: Aberration Size: Small (3ft ish) +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int, –2 Cha Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Darkvision: 60 ft Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Sticky Fingers +2 to grapple checks
Rejected ideas
Spoiler
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Quickness: +1 standard or move action each round Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -4 attack bonus and –2 damage when using a weapon, -1 shield bonus when using a shield.
Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Constrict: 1d3+Str Bludgeoning damage to grappled opponent as a standard action Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Spider climb: can walk up walls and ceilings at 20ft per round without making a climb check if both hands are free, retains Dex modifier to armor class, can not use the run ability while climbing.
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can move normally as a Swift Action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -4 attack bonus and –2 damage when using a weapon, -1 shield bonus when using a shield.
Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Constrict: 1d3+Str Bludgeoning damage to grappled opponent as a standard action Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Spider climb: can walk up walls and ceilings at 20ft per round without making a climb check if both hands are free, retains Dex modifier to armor class, can not use the run ability while climbing.
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can move normally as a Swift Action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -3 attack bonus and –2 damage when using a weapon, -1 shield bonus when using a shield.
Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Spider climb: can walk up walls and ceilings at 20ft per round without making a climb check if both hands are free, retains Dex modifier to armor class, can not use the run ability while climbing.
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Boneless limbs: A Choker is always unable to make charge attacks Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can make an additional 5 foot step each round as a swift action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks, +8 to climb checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -1 attack bonus, attack damage and shield bonus when attempting to use a weapon and/or or shield. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Climb speed 20: Gains a +8 bonus to climb checks* and may choose to take 10 while climbing, even if rushed or threatened. If it chooses to make an accelerated climb it moves at twice its climb speed at a -5 climb check penalty. Chokers are unable to run while climbing, and retains its Dex bonus to armour class(if any).
*Shown under "skill bonuses"
Choker
Type: Aberration Size: Small (3ft ish) +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int, -2 Wis, –2 Cha Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Darkvision: 60 ft Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Boneless limbs: A Choker is always unable to make charge attacks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) These aren’t hands: -1 attack bonus, attack damage and shield bonus when attempting to use a weapon and/or or shield. Sticky Fingers +2 to grapple checks
Well... it's horribly broken. I mean, this is the greatest caster race ever, what with being able to cast 2 spells per round. Gaining 1 extra standard action per day is considered extremely powerful- getting one every round, well, that's just unjustifiable.
Beyond that, 10 foot reach on a small character and a climb speed makes this probably the best race ever, ever.
A more balanced choker can be found here (scroll down a bit) as a 2 level class. It's still not perfect- not nearly- but unless you know how to abuse it, it should work fine.
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Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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Classic Cthulhu by RTGoodman
Critical Failures by Strawberries & Captain Happy, respectively.
Scizor by Mr. Saturn.
Last edited by Gorgondantess : 02-13-2011 at 12:32 AM.
I could see allowing it for a Monk actually; it would help balance a core monk better.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes
Finding out that the ennui and cynicism of our times is not, after all, an unavoidable unreverseable fate does kind of throw your world-view off, potentially.
Allright so what if i reduced the spider climb to half speed (so 10ft), and made it only an extra move action at half speed per round? or i could probably remove the quickness thing altogether.
And chokers get the 10 reach because they have VERY long arms. though we could make it a medium-sized creature, but keep the 20ft movement speed (due to it having trouble moving on the ground), keep the 20ft climbing, and either make it only an additional move action or remove quickness altogether. Would that be more fair?
I would say remove the quickness, leave the reach and give it a bonus to movement. That would do the same thing as quickness in flavor terms, and wouldn't be nearly so powerful.
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Avapony by Dirtytabs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes
Finding out that the ennui and cynicism of our times is not, after all, an unavoidable unreverseable fate does kind of throw your world-view off, potentially.
Something like that; or give it a flat +10 to whatever move it already has. So if you play a Barbarian or Monk choker you get even more extra movement. Alternatively you could give it the ability to move as a swift action instead of a move action; it can full attack after a move but not extra spells.
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Avapony by Dirtytabs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes
Finding out that the ennui and cynicism of our times is not, after all, an unavoidable unreverseable fate does kind of throw your world-view off, potentially.
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can move normally as a Swift Action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -4 attack bonus and –2 damage when using a weapon, -1 shield bonus when using a shield.
Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Constrict: 1d3+Str Bludgeoning damage to grappled opponent as a standard action Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Spider climb: can walk up walls and ceilings at 20ft per round without making a climb check if both hands are free, retains Dex modifier to armor class, can not use the run ability while climbing.
Instead of that "Spider Climb" thing you could give "Climb speed 10" to the race, as the regular choker has, and the typical bonus which comes along with climb speed:
Skills
A chokers has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.
And... the Constrict attack makes little sense without the full +4 to grapple checks... I mean, even with the Str bonus and +2 Racial bonus factored in, a choker offers a -1 to grapple checks (and the race strongly favors classes like rogue or monk, with 3/4 attack bonus, so it will remain worse than a regular human until it gets Improved Grapple).
I'd remove Constrict and perhaps lessen by one point the penalties when using weapons; that'd be:
Spoiler
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Speed: 20ft (4 squares), Climb 10ft (2 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can move normally as a Swift Action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -3 attack bonus and –1 damage when using a weapon. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action)
It's not really overpowered so much as clumsy - inventing a new ability to do what already exists.
As an example, it'd be like giving a monster the following ability: Heavy Smash (Ex): The Gribbly Thingamajig often makes wild swings, sacrificing accuracy to land more powerful blows. It can choose to take a penalty on any attack roll of at least 1 and no greater than its Base Attack Bonus, while adding a bonus to damage on successful hits equal to the penalty. If wielding a weapon in two hands, it doubles the bonus damage.
Ooooooor.....you could just give it Power Attack as a racial bonus feat.
Relevant to your monster - the 'spider climb' ability, is basically exactly the same effect as having a Climb speed 20ft., so there's no need to invent a whole new ability for that purpose.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombimode
Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D
Last edited by The Glyphstone : 02-13-2011 at 07:20 PM.
Well i just figured since Chokers spend all their lives hanging from walls and rooftops and the like, it would seem more natural and flow together better if they had an ability that allowed them to climb walls and roofs without requiring climb checks. Spider climb was the only way i knew of to do that.
Oh, now I get it, you are actually improving the original creature's climbing ability (beyond the 10ft-20ft thing).
Sorry, I was criticizing without understanding of what you aimed at.
well mostly i just didin't want to make climbcheck evry time i try to stay in charicter and climb a wall or something, i am notoriusly bad at dice rolls :P
so how's this? i removed constrict and lowered the attack bonus reduction. maybe i could increase the grapple bonus to +4 or something? maybe increase the damage penalty to +3 to match the attack bonus penelty?
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can move normally as a Swift Action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -3 attack bonus and –2 damage when using a weapon, -1 shield bonus when using a shield.
Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d3+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Spider climb: can walk up walls and ceilings at 20ft per round without making a climb check if both hands are free, retains Dex modifier to armor class, can not use the run ability while climbing.
well mostly i just didin't want to make climbcheck evry time i try to stay in charicter and climb a wall or something, i am notoriusly bad at dice rolls :P
Well, that's what having a climb speed does :) - you usually get a racial bonus, and can always take 10 on the check.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
Well, that's what having a climb speed does :) - you usually get a racial bonus, and can always take 10 on the check.
Yep. Basically, the racial ability just makes sure you can't climb upside down on an overhanging greased wall during a hailstorm, for instance...something the Spider Climb spell would allow, and something that doesn't make sense for a natural creature to be able to do.
I'd go with the nature Climb speed here instead of the Spider Climb ability.
Continuing...the penalties to using weapons strike me as fairly limiting, given how weak the natural attack is. Perhaps find some other way to balance out the reach, as otherwise you'll find a lot of people avoiding the race. Flat -X to things is always a tricky proposition when it's something like this. Swift Movement is also one of the single strongest LA 0 racial abilities I've ever seen someone try to give a class, and, as such, I think you might need to replace that with something else, 'cause it's a very powerful ability.
All right so how's this? i boosted the tentacle damage, reduced swift movement to only an additional 5 foot step, removed any ability to charge, added a climb bonus, replaced spider climb with climb speed 20, and reduced these-aren’t-hands to -1's all around. any better?
Choker
+2Str, +2Dex, -2 Int –2 Cha Small (3ft ish) Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Boneless limbs: A Choker is always unable to make charge attacks Darkvision: 60 ft Swift Movement: Can make an additional 5 foot step each round as a swift action Skill bonuses: +2 to hide and move silently checks, +4 to climb checks Reach: 10ft These aren’t hands: -1 attack bonus, attack damage and shield bonus when attempting to use a weapon and/or or shield. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) Climb speed 20: Can climb up walls or ceilings without making climb checks if conditions are good Solid grip: A choker can choose to take 10 while making climb checks, even if in a rushed or threatened state
[...]+4 to climb checks
[...] Solid grip: A choker can choose to take 10 while making climb checks, even if in a rushed or threatened state
Heh, actually these two are already a given the moment you wrote "climb speed":
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
Climb
A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but it always can choose to take 10 even if rushed or threatened while climbing. The creature climbs at the given speed while climbing. If it chooses an accelerated climb it moves at double the given climb speed (or its base land speed, whichever is lower) and makes a single Climb check at a -5 penalty. Creatures cannot run while climbing. A creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against a climbing creature.
Well... yes, but if you consider the +8 bonus, the racial +2 to Strength (resulting in +1 modifier):
By "taking 10" you can beat climb checks of up to 19 (that is, not requiring you to roll)... without considering further strength bonus or ranks in the climb skill... I think that's some great climber.
Just for reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
DC 10 A surface with ledges to hold on to and stand on, such as a very rough wall or a ship’s rigging.
DC 15 Any surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial), such as a very rough natural rock surface or a tree, or an unknotted rope, or pulling yourself up when dangling by your hands.
DC 20 An uneven surface with some narrow handholds and footholds, such as a typical wall in a dungeon or ruins.
DC 25 A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall.
DC 25 An overhang or ceiling with handholds but no footholds.
By level three (6 ranks in Climb plus your starting +9: taking 10 --> 25) you wouldn't need make any check unless some dire situation arises.
Getting much better. Still very strong for LA +0 though. I'd do this, personally:
Choker
Type: Aberration +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int –2 Cha Size: Small Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Speed: 25 feet (4 squares) Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Darkvision: 60 ft Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural Weapon: Tentacle (1d4+Str)
This is probably around +0 LA, or at least close to it. The speeds are taken from the Choker, and increased by 5ft due to the weaker Quickness. The reach ability was tied to Swift actions like the Swift Movement ability to prevent the race from being forever immune to Sneak Attacks, as well as to prevent Attack of Opportunity shenanigans with the improved reach (which lasts for just the Choker's turn.
Getting much better. Still very strong for LA +0 though. I'd do this, personally:
Choker
Type: Aberration +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int –2 Cha Size: Small Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Speed: 25 feet (4 squares) Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Darkvision: 60 ft Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks Natural Weapon: Tentacle (1d4+Str)
This is probably around +0 LA, or at least close to it. The speeds are taken from the Choker, and increased by 5ft due to the weaker Quickness. The reach ability was tied to Swift actions like the Swift Movement ability to prevent the race from being forever immune to Sneak Attacks, as well as to prevent Attack of Opportunity shenanigans with the improved reach (which lasts for just the Choker's turn.
Allright, i'm not a fan of tieing the reach to the swift action, but it seems fair. just not entirely sure. how's this look?
Choker
Type: Aberration Size: Small (3ft ish) +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int, -2 Wis, –2 Cha Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Darkvision: 60 ft Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Boneless limbs: A Choker is always unable to make charge attacks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) These aren’t hands: -1 attack bonus, attack damage and shield bonus when attempting to use a weapon and/or or shield. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks
Looks fairly balanced, actually. Those mental stats basically say 'lol no casting for you', but it makes a fairly decent melee fighter, and having both the extra reach and the free 5-ft step makes for an interesting choice each round, since they consume swift actions and you can only get one of them under most circumstances.
Only change I'd make is to rename Improved Grab to, say, "Sticky Fingers". Improved Grab is an existing ability that gives free grapple attempts on melee hits, and it would get confusing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
Allright, i'm not a fan of tieing the reach to the swift action, but it seems fair. just not entirely sure. how's this look?
Choker
Type: Aberration Size: Small (3ft ish) +2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Int, -2 Wis, –2 Cha Skill Bonuses: +2 to Hide and Move Silently. Slow speed: (20ft/ 4 squares) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Darkvision: 60 ft Climb Speed: 15 feet* (*Chokers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.) Lashing Arms: As a Swift action, a Choker can extend its natural reach by 5 feet until the end of its turn. Swift Movement: As a Swift action, a Choker may take a 5-foot step, even if it has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Boneless limbs: A Choker is always unable to make charge attacks Natural weapon; Tentacle: 1d6+Str (melee) (can use twice as a full-round action) These aren’t hands: -1 attack bonus, attack damage and shield bonus when attempting to use a weapon and/or or shield. Improved grab: +2 to grapple checks
ok might be a bit much
To much? Nope...this is just what I presented, only with an extra Tentacle attack (which isn't that valuable, honestly, although you upped the damage), and the Boneless Limbs and These Aren't Hands penalties, which I personally don't think are necessary. That said, I'd allow it as presented, although I must say I like the "fewer penalty" version I presented above better.
Glyphstone is right about the Improve Grab ability though...that will need a change of name.
the boneless limbs and these arent hands penaltys are mostly added for flavor. TBH i dont think a creature with tenticle fingers would be able to hold a sword very well, and chargeing someone while hanging upsidedown seems kind of silly IMO... though then again...
kinda just added them to make up for the 10ft reach though, now that its optional, maybe i could allow charges...
Edit: ... wonder if i could do something to add a tenticle attack to a flurry of blows or something...
Luck Blessed: My most recent homebrew (new as of mid May 2013).
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
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I wanna play a choker. (PEACH) {3.5}
it's not a new ability, it's from the 
