2/28/2013 - Update on Thumb
12/31/2012 - There's a New Comic
12/12/2012 - The "Lost" Holiday Ornament (and Child's Play)
11/26/2012 - Leftover OOTS Swag on Sale (+Thumb Report)
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Order of the Stick 889 Get Real
Erfworld 163 The End of Book One
Erfworld Now at Erfworld.com!
RSS Feeds: OOTS

The Duke's Wolf, Part Four by Amber E. Scott
The Duke's Wolf, Part Three by Amber E. Scott
The Duke's Wolf, Part Two by Amber E. Scott

The New World, Part 9: Barbarians by Rich Burlew
The New World, Part 8: Gnomes by Rich Burlew
The New World, Part 7: Names and Cultures by Rich Burlew
Looking for the Gaming Articles?

 



Welcome back! Be sure you have read and understand the Forum Rules.


Go Back   Giant in the Playground Forums > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20
Register FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read End

D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 The forum for conversations specifically related to the rules and procedures of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition, 3.5 Edition, or any fantasy game using the d20 system or a variant thereof (commercially published or not).

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2011, 08:52 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

(Well, here I am again, almost 7 months later, writing a new handbook for the new Gunslinger. Thankfully, many of my old notes for the playtest Gunslinger are still relevant, though I'm going to have a couple tweaks here and there. I'm going to take a page from Saph's Summoner's Handbook and spread this out over multiple posts to help with readability. So, without further ado:)
The Gunslinger's Handbook

Table of Contents
  1. Table of Contents, Rating System & Useful Links
  2. Class Overview, Grit and Deeds
  3. Abilities and Races
  4. Skills, Traits & Feats, Oh My!
  5. Your Boomstick and You: Firearms, Black Powder and Accessories
  6. Archetypes, Multiclassing and Builds
  7. Last Words, Notes and Everything Else
Rating System
Just like in the Mini-Guide, the rating system is as follows:
Excellent
Good
Standard, not good or bad
Subpar
Bad

Useful Links
Guns and Black Powder: The Old Playtest Gunslinger Mini-Guide
The Gunslinger class on the PF SRD
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 04-01-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Class Overview, Grit & Deeds

Gunslingers are the newest base class that isn't an alternate class in Ultimate Combat. Since the playtest, the Gunslinger has become its own class with more skills and skill points and more deeds, as well as other tweaks. Along with the new gun system, they are a strong nonmagic damage dealing class that isn't dependent on precision damage and largely ignores the biggest boosts to the defence he targets: AC. They mostly do this damage to a single target at a time, though there are ways around that that'll be explained as we come to them.

Let's take a look at the class make-up to see what we have to play with:
  • Hit Dice: Gunslingers, while not directly on the front line, will likely be close enough that they'll be thankful for that d10 HD, especially when dealing with other 'slingers. She'll be able to take a hit and keep shooting.
  • Full BAB, Two Good Saves: Gunslingers have a good foundation for both offence and defence. Full BAB means hitting targets despite Deadly Aim and shooting into melee. Good Fort and Reflex progressions mean they'll have a good chance to resist hostile effects. The only weakness, Will saves, is made up for with a focus on Wisdom as one of their two primary stats.
  • Skills: Previously built on the Fighter chassis, Gunslingers now have their own skill list which has most of the Fighter skills plus many new additions that fit with their theme, Acrobatics and Perception chief among them. They also have more skill points now (4+Int), so they can afford to get a mix of skills now.
  • Weapon and Armor Proficiency: 'slingers have the Full BAB Martial weapon package, plus firearms. They only have Light Armor on the armor end but they're high Dex, anyways, so we want the least amount of restriction on that front.
  • Gunsmith: Free firearm from the choices of blunderbuss, musket and pistol, that only you can use properly without it jamming up, and the Gunsmithing feat for free, so you can make new guns, ammo and powder, fix firearms and upgrade your freebie to masterwork. Not a bad deal, especially since Gunsmithing makes the craft work like magic item making in terms of time required. No Craft ranks or checks required, either, though investing in Craft(Alchemy) to make cartridges would do you well.
  • Grit: Grit is what sets Gunslingers apart from other martial types and gives them the extra oomph to pull tricks and make devastating shots. The best thing about Grit is that, while a limited resource, you can restore it during the day by doing specific actions. These also stack, so you can get multiple grit back, especially with Scatter firearms.
    1. Critical Hit with a Firearm: Hard to do early on, given firearms only crit only on a 20. Also has to be a 'worthy enemy,' meaning at least half your HD and aware of you and can defend itself. No bag of puppies here. In the mid-levels, this upgrades to black via Improved Critical, Critical Focus and Targeting(Torso).
    2. Killing Blow with a Firearm: Given the high damage firearms can put out, this'll probably be where you get most of your grit back from early on till Critical Hit catches up. It's also likely that, with a x4 crit, you'll probably get Killing Blow to activate as well.
    3. Daring Act: While an optional rule, Daring Acts are THE best way to get Grit back by living up to Gunslinger ideology, basically being as bad ass as you can manage to be. This takes some DM adjudication to work but, if you can work with them, you can steadily keep the Grit flowing in so you can pull off more deeds!
  • Deeds: You have a steady flow of Grit, now you need something to spend 'em on. Deeds are your bread and butter that set you apart from other archer types. There's a mixed bag of good and bad ones, I'll cover them in there own section following this.
  • Nimble: Free bonus to AC that stacks with everything else? Yes, please! Goes when your Dexterity bonus does and is light armor or lighter only, so situational awareness is key.
  • Bonus Feats: Every build seems feat starved to one extent or another, so getting some bonus feats never hurt nobody. Has to be a Combat or Grit feat but you were getting those, anyways. Also, if you ever feel like you need more Combat feats, you can now go into Fighter for them, since Gunslinger and Fighter are completely separate classes now, unlike Rogue and Ninja.
  • Gun Training: You actually have choices now, unlike in the playtest. Still get Dex to damage and reduced misfire increase with your chosen weapon. Still awesome.
  • True Grit: Performing Deeds for cheaper? Sure, why not! Unlike in the playtest, this works on Deeds that require Grit but don't expend it, so that you always have it up regardless of if you've spent it all or not. Something awesome got better!
Deeds

Deeds are the bread and butter of Gunslingers and, using Grit, is what differentiates them from other martial types. They can be acquired in three ways:
  1. Leveling through the Gunslinger class
  2. Getting Grit Feats
  3. Choosing an Archetype
The last method typically replaces other deeds with ones that fit the archetype better. Deeds acquired through methods 1 & 3 will be examined in this section, Grit feats will be covered in the feat section.

Deeds also come in three varieties:
  1. Deeds that cost Grit to use
  2. Deeds that require a positive Grit total but don't cost any Grit to use
  3. Deeds that you can use regardless of whether you actually have Grit or not
The third variety doesn't exist naturally and only occurs when True Grit is applied to a Deed that is of the second variety. Unless you're truly paranoid about being able to use a Deed at any time, when the rest of your Deeds aren't available from lack of Grit, for the purposes of this guide the third variety will be ignored as over expending resources to turn first variety into second. It's nice to have, certainly, but the likelihood you'll have a spare Lucky gun, as well as boosts to Wisdom and the ability to crit or kill worthy enemies makes it not something to worry about.

Now, finally, Deeds are broken down by level available (as a Gunslinger can use any Deed of his class level or lower) and will have a rating for Signature Deed/True Grit (listed as Grit Reduction? or GR? for short) on whether it's desirable to use them on. For Archetype Deeds, there'll be a note for what Archetype it belongs to and a section for what Deed it replaces.

1st Level
Spoiler

3rd Level
Spoiler

7th Level
Spoiler

11th Level
Spoiler

15th Level
Spoiler

19th Level
Spoiler
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 03-02-2012 at 11:39 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Post Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Abilities and Races

Ability Scores
Gunslingers are fairly dual stat dependent, though you could get away with just Dexterity if you're desperate.

Strength: Dump stat, pure and simple. Only things it may affect is your carrying capacity (some guns are heavy, especially if you pursue cannons and mortars) and, if Daring Acts are allowed, some checks may be dependent on it.
Dexterity: The stat Gunslingers live and die by. Affects your accuracy, damage, defense (both AC and Ref saves), skills, initiative and so on. Put your highest stat here to be a successful 'slinger.
Constitution: HP and Fort saves are important to everybody, 'slingers as well. Skimping on this could mean an early death.
Intelligence: You have a nice skill list and 4+ skill points/level, it can pay to have decent score here. Not a major concern but something to consider. If you find yourself with a high score here and your DM is lenient, this can become a damage stat via Focused Shot.
Wisdom: Your second most important stat after Dexterity, it determines your Grit pool, boosts your weakest save (Will) and is key to Perception, which can make the difference between getting the drop on and ending foes and the reverse happening. Not as important for Mysterious Strangers, but Perception is the most rolled skill in the game, something to keep in mind.
Charisma: You have the skill list and skills to pull off being a Face, though Bards and Rogues are far better at it. For Mysterious Strangers, this takes Wisdom's place, especially with Focused Aim, in the scale of stat importance.

Races
Core Races
Spoiler

Psionics Unleashed Races
Spoiler

Bestiary Races
Spoiler
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 04-01-2012 at 09:23 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Skills, Traits and Feats, Oh My!

Skills
Gunslingers have an expanded skill list since the playtest, picking up 3 new class skills and increasing their skill ranks per level from 2+Int to 4+Int, meaning they can be somewhat skilly. The Mysterious Stranger archetype gives some credence to a shift of focus, which I'll cover in cross-class skills.

Class Skills
Spoiler


Cross-class Skills to Consider
Spoiler


Traits

Combat Traits
Spoiler

Faith Traits
Spoiler

Magic Traits
Spoiler

Social Traits
Spoiler

Race Traits
Spoiler

Regional Traits
Spoiler

Religion Traits
Spoiler


Feats
Core Rulebook
Spoiler

Advanced Player's Guide
Spoiler

Ultimate Magic
Spoiler
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 04-11-2012 at 11:15 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:57 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Ultimate Combat
Spoiler
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 04-11-2012 at 11:27 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Reserved Post #6
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 09:00 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Reserved Post #7
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 09:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

And Reserved Post #8 for good measure. Alright, I should be good. Feel free to post, Playground, while I write and look up appropriate pictures. Will start filling in info tomorrow, just laying out the handbook this evening. Tired now, sleep calls...
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 08-25-2011 at 09:52 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 08:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Frosty
Titan in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

What kinda pictures are you looking for? People holding guns? How about this one?
Spoiler
__________________
NS2...it's time to evolve again.
Frosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 08:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
Starbuck_II
Titan in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 
Enterprise, Alabama
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

I have a few:

Kind of a Anime School girl with guns:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SP9cTgPs2G...Manga__624.jpg

Found one with a girl holding a gun/stake:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/D...ms/Avinrai.png

Boomstick:
http://www.halfblogre.com/wp-content.../Boomstick.jpg

Guy with gun on cliff:
http://uniquefrequency.files.wordpre...arktower21.jpg
Starbuck_II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 09:39 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
I could work with these, yeah. Got busy yesterday, writing stuff up this morning to give people something to read at least.

2nd Post half done. I'll write up Deeds and get into the meat of what everyone cares about for making Gunslingers: Races, Feats, Skill and Traits. Oy vey, formatting will be the death of me...
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 08-27-2011 at 01:16 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 10:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #12
grarrrg
Ogre in the Playground
 
OrcBarbarianGuy
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 
Ponyville
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quick links to things I submitted to the guide:
Multi/Prestige Class
Archetype breakdown
Short Feat list
2-Weapon Reloading Mini-Guide
Race section Update


Submission for the Builds section. (feel free to edit down for space)
I would like if someone could check my math (accuracy/damage per shot/etc...)
(Gundolon v1.3)


The Gundolon (taking requests for a Punnier name)
Spoiler

The following build is based around the "Leaping Shot Deed" feat, it is presented as a level 20 build, although it can begin making use of its trick around levels 6 - 8. If starting at a low level, it is greatly recommended to rearrange levels/feats to make it more playable at low levels.

The core of the build is Gunslinger 1, Summoner 3 (Synthesist, in Eidolon-form this will give you 3-Bab from the 3 Summoner Levels), from there your options are wide open. Play it safe and go 'Slinger 17/Sum 3 (effectively 20bab), or go arms wild with 'Slinger 1/Sum 19 (effectively 16bab). Or anywhere in between, a dip in Fighter is highly encouraged for the feats though.

Race: Halfling, small, -2 Str +2 Dex, +2 Cha (Halfling chosen to allow small-Eidolon-Form, Human is recommended for low-level starts, Half-Elf a good choice for a Summoner heavy build, or a '2-class' type build))
Classes:
Gunslinger 4 (Mysterious Stranger)
Fighter 4 (Weapon Master)
Summoner 10 (Synthesist)
Rogue 2 (Normal or Sniper) Can replace with Ninja 2 and trade Evasion for a Ki Pool.
Sample 15-point buy: (feel free to tweak if starting at low levels)
Str 8 (10-2)
Dex 15 (13+2)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 22 (15+2race+5levels)
8d10+12d8 HD (avg 98 +40 from con)
Bab 16 (17 in Eidolon-Form or if using Fractional)
All saves will be medium/great
Gunslinger 4 (Mysterious Stranger) gives Gun Prof., a Grit pool based on Cha, various Deeds, a Bonus feat, and the ability to spend Grit to gain Cha-to-Damage
Fighter 4 (Weapon Master) gives 3 bonus feats, and +1 att/damage with chosen weapon (weapon training at level 3 instead of armor training)
Summoner 12 (Synthesist) The Eidolon's physical stats will replace our own (hence our poor Str/Dex scores), we will be using a Small Quadruped Eidolon for the net +2 to-hit -1 damage (weaon size). Eidolon-form stats after all bonuses/penalties are Str 14, Dex 22, Con 11. We have 14 Evolution points, most of these will be spent on adding Arms (saving a few points for utility powers, like Wings). Quadruped was chosen for efficiency purposes, Leaping Shot lets you move as part of the action, so we either spend Evo-points on legs, or start with them, if legs are less of a concern, feel free to choose a different base-form, none are bad.
Rogue 2 (normal or Sniper) +1d6 Sneak attack, Evasion, a Rogue Talent, and either Trapfinding OR reduced ranged penalties (description states Bow or Crossbow, but adding Firearms make sense). Our Talent will either be "Stand Up", so we can stand up from Prone as a Free Action (Leaping Shot leaves us prone), Or, "Grit" to gain Extra Grit AND a Grit Deed as bonus feats (RAW this won't work with pre-existing levels of Gunslinger, but RAI it makes sense).

Feats: 14 (+2 if "Grit" Rogue talent is allowed) (10 levels, 1 Gunslinger, 3 Fighter) these are listed in no particular order, any weapon specific feats are assumed to be for Firearm-Pistol. (most feats are just a guideline, only the feats up through level 5 are necessary)
1 Rapid Reload
3 Dodge
4 Mobility (G)
5 Leaping Shot Deed
5 Point-Blank Shot (F)
6 Quick-Draw (F)
7 Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting (yet another RAW hole, they are effectively the same feat, and Multi even says it 'replaces' Two-Weap for creatures with more arms, there is also debate whether you even need this when using Leaping Shot)
8 Deadly Aim (F)
9 Precise Shot
11 Deft Shootist Deed
13 Weapon Focus
15 Weapon Specialization
17 Improved Critical (Keen is not an option on firearms)
19 Improved Initiative
If "Grit" Rogue talent is allowed, then add Extra Grit and any one other feat (Grit-Talent feat would be Leaping Shot Deed, freeing up a normal feat slot)
Secret Stash deed might be handy, as you can pay Grit/Gold to "find" a bullet hidden on yourself (this CAN be an enchanted bullet, but you only get 1-shot per Grit)

We shall assume your Eidolon-form has 12 arms total, each holding a pistol. 2 of your pistols are your "main weapons" and are pimped out with abilities, the remaining 10 will probably have minimal upgrades based on what you can afford (at most +1, and a variety of specialty enchantments, like Bane, or Axiomatic). Distance is recommended.

Leaping Shot lets you spend a Grit to move your full distance, and attack with all of your firearms, at any point during the move, at your full Bab.
Adding that all together (assume all pistols are +1 only):
12 attacks, each with...
To-hit: +22 (17bab, 6dex, 1weapon, 1wep-focus, 1size, 1Fight3, -5deadly aim)
Damage: 1d6+20 (1d6+1weapon, +10deadly aim, +6cha, +2wep-spec, +1Fight3) add 1d6 for possible Sneak Attack.
Most will hit, and 1 of those will be a Critical for x4 damage, and will regain a Grit point.
If all of them hit, with 1 Critical, you will be doing around 350 damage in the first round of combat. (somebody double check please). Closer to 400 w/ Sneak Attack.

Round 2 of combat will be trickier, as you will need to reload 12 guns. Unless you have Double Barrelled Pistols, then Round 2 is the same as Round 1, and Round 3 is reload time.
If Revolvers/Cartidges are allowed, I highly urge you to make use of them.

Final notes: The presented build is skewed towards "heavy damage/Nova", feel free to adjust class levels up/down. Dropping Summoner/Rogue and adding Fighter/Gunslinger can up the survivability and efficiency at the cost of raw damage.
Adding Paladin 2, for Cha-to-saves and a Smite Evil, is also a good option.

Last edited by grarrrg : 03-05-2012 at 10:00 PM.
grarrrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 09:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Definitely like what I see, grarrrg. I'll give it a more thorough read-over as I get towards multiclassing and builds. I would recommend pursuing Sythesist a bit later on in the build, due to the costs of firearms being prohibitive in the early levels, as well as getting Improved Critical and Critical Focus as early as possible to help with Grit regeneration. I may have further recommendations later. Also using double-barreled pistols may help with getting a second barrage off. The only trouble is getting up from prone rapidly, though I think there's a Rogue Talent for that...

Also the first set of Deeds are up. I decided that I'd include Archetype deeds in the appropriate sections to better facilitate side-by-side comparison. I should have Deeds done either tonight or tomorrow. Sorry about how slow this guide is going, my computer has been getting rather wonky about any serious writing I attempt to do, plus my internet device gets a bit testy at night to where it randomly resets and is rather slow. Makes getting things I want done difficult at times.
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!

Last edited by Cieyrin : 08-31-2011 at 10:25 PM.
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 09:19 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
grarrrg
Ogre in the Playground
 
OrcBarbarianGuy
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 
Ponyville
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

As an alternative to a Cha-based Gundolon is to go Pistolero (or straight Gunslinger) and take 5 levels to gain Dex to damage.
The advantages are reduced misfire, and your bonus damage is always on (don't need to spend a Swift-action+Grit).
The disadvantages are you'll need to wait til Gunslinger 5 for the bonus damage, and you will have to boost Wis to have a decent Grit pool, while still retaining some Cha to cast Summoner spells (depending on your planned Summoner level, you only need 13-to-15 Cha).

NOTE: I am aware that you can take multiple archetypes, so long as they don't replace the same feature. As posted on the pfsrd (I don't have the book), there appears to be no conflict between Mysterious Stranger and Pistolero. But Pistolero's 'Pistol Training' is obviously meant to replace 'Gun Training'. Mysterious Stranger has already traded away Gun Training, hence, you cannot take both.
Insert Sad-Face as you can't get Dex AND Cha to damage.
grarrrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 11:56 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
NOTE: I am aware that you can take multiple archetypes, so long as they don't replace the same feature. As posted on the pfsrd (I don't have the book), there appears to be no conflict between Mysterious Stranger and Pistolero. But Pistolero's 'Pistol Training' is obviously meant to replace 'Gun Training'. Mysterious Stranger has already traded away Gun Training, hence, you cannot take both.
Insert Sad-Face as you can't get Dex AND Cha to damage.
Believe me, I checked that first thing. By RAW, since Pistolero doesn't say it replaces Gun Training, you can technically take both Archetypes and be a Mysterious Pistolero. That is, till the errata comes out and Mysterious Stranger's free Deed gets errata'd to replace another 11th level Deed as well. In the mean time, enjoy your freebie if your DM isn't wise to your ways and sees that it's an obvious mistake.
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 05:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Larpus
Barbarian in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 
Brazil
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

On a related note I find it rather interesting how DMs are quick to notice RAIs when they screw you but are oblivious to when they help you.

Anyway, good stuff on the guide, Gunslinger seems like a fun class, don't think I'll ever play one in the near future (unless my current character dies), but anyway, been a long time since I've actually cared for a non-magical class (other than Barbarian).
Larpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 05:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Lord.Sorasen
Barbarian in the Playground
 
PaladinGuy
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Does this mean gunslingers automatically know how to perform all there deeds? That is a lot more impressive than I realized.
__________________

Look everyone this image is a link!
Lord.Sorasen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 06:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord.Sorasen View Post
Does this mean gunslingers automatically know how to perform all there deeds? That is a lot more impressive than I realized.
That is correct, Deeds are not chosen like Rogue Talents or Rage Powers; if you're high enough level, you get them automatically. You can change what Deeds you get via choosing an Archetype or get new ones via Grit feats.
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 08:08 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
search116
Pixie in the Playground
 
NecromancerGuy
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Good work so far can't wait for the rest of the handbook. This is going to be extremely helpful as my friends and I are finally going to make the transition from 3.5 to PF.
search116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 09:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #20
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by search116 View Post
Good work so far can't wait for the rest of the handbook. This is going to be extremely helpful as my friends and I are finally going to make the transition from 3.5 to PF.
I'll see what I can do over the holiday weekend. At the very least I'll finish Deeds and start working on the next section, if not more.
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 09:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
BlueInc
Barbarian in the Playground
 
ClericGuy
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
That is correct, Deeds are not chosen like Rogue Talents or Rage Powers; if you're high enough level, you get them automatically. You can change what Deeds you get via choosing an Archetype or get new ones via Grit feats.
Wow. I really want to play a Gunslinger now.

Pathfinder really needs to make a melee "Gunslinger" class to replace the Fighter. Just...a Fighter with daily resources and unique class features.
BlueInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 12:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Larpus
Barbarian in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 
Brazil
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueInc View Post
Wow. I really want to play a Gunslinger now.

Pathfinder really needs to make a melee "Gunslinger" class to replace the Fighter. Just...a Fighter with daily resources and unique class features.
Or just hope that they apply what they're learning as far as class design go to the old classes...I mean the UC Rage Powers are horrid.
Larpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2011, 03:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
Exelbirth
Pixie in the Playground
 
NecromancerGirl
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Glad to see you're making an updated version of the old handbook. My DM is going to be having a five-man party do the Zeitgeist campaign that the people from War of the Burning Sky are publishing now. I'm going in as a musketman, following the old guide you put out. Our first session's going to be October 1st, so I'm hoping you got this mostly completed by then *gives thumbs up*

If my character manages to die, well, I'll be sad, but I'm going to bring in a scout variant rogue/gunslinger combo if I die late enough in the campaign.
Exelbirth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2011, 09:12 AM   Top  -  End  -  #24
Cieyrin
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 
Wisconsin
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
Glad to see you're making an updated version of the old handbook. My DM is going to be having a five-man party do the Zeitgeist campaign that the people from War of the Burning Sky are publishing now. I'm going in as a musketman, following the old guide you put out. Our first session's going to be October 1st, so I'm hoping you got this mostly completed by then *gives thumbs up*

If my character manages to die, well, I'll be sad, but I'm going to bring in a scout variant rogue/gunslinger combo if I die late enough in the campaign.
Well, I should hopefully be done by then. Glad to see the old guide is helpful as well. Let me know how it goes and whether your experience with my recommendations pans out.
__________________
Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
Spoiler
My Homebrew
The Gunslinger's Handbook
Archetype Combo List!
Cieyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 06:49 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Exelbirth
Pixie in the Playground
 
NecromancerGirl
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

I'm actually having a bit of trouble deciding how I want my gunslinger rogue to develop in the later levels. She's going to be focused on staying fairly close to the enemy, 20 - 15 feet, and when she gets the skirmish ability she'll be circling around the battlefield pulling off sneak attacks. Any suggestions?
Exelbirth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 06:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Frosty
Titan in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
Well, I should hopefully be done by then. Glad to see the old guide is helpful as well. Let me know how it goes and whether your experience with my recommendations pans out.
Is the guide going to contain hints about how to do stuff other than shoot things? People say the Gunslinger is tier5 like the Fighter. Are Gunslingers really so single-tracked?
__________________
NS2...it's time to evolve again.
Frosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 07:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Exelbirth
Pixie in the Playground
 
NecromancerGirl
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Is the guide going to contain hints about how to do stuff other than shoot things? People say the Gunslinger is tier5 like the Fighter. Are Gunslingers really so single-tracked?
For the most part they seem to be. Guns however aren't, if you see the other class variations that include gun training, like the wizard's gunmage type class.
Exelbirth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 08:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
grarrrg
Ogre in the Playground
 
OrcBarbarianGuy
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 
Ponyville
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Is the guide going to contain hints about how to do stuff other than shoot things? People say the Gunslinger is tier5 like the Fighter. Are Gunslingers really so single-tracked?
If anything a Gunslinger is MORE deserving of Tier 5 than a Fighter.
Let's compare Fighters to Gunslingers.
Gunslinger was originally going to be a "Fighter Alternate" (a fancy word for Mega-Archetype), so they start very similar. Neither class can cast. Gunslingers have 2 extra skill points a level, and a few more skills to chose from. But they don't have the Points, nor the selection to be a good Skill Monkey.
As a Fighter levels, he gains up to 11 bonus Combat Feats, Armor Training basically let's him treat Heavy armor as Light armor, and Weapon Training gives him up to +4 to-hit and Damage.
As a Gunslinger levels, he gains up to 5 bonus Combat/Grit Feats, Gun Training let's him add Dex-to-Damage, he gets a +5 bonus to AC, and gains a variety of Deeds.
Side by side it looks like the Gunslinger gets more stuff.
But if you notice, EVERYTHING the Gunslinger gets is Damage Focused. "Attack an enemy with a bonus", "Attack an enemy with a different bonus", etc... And most of the combat feats aren't worth taking on a ranged build.
Meanwhile, the Fighter has better weapon/armor selection, similar damage bonuses, and _6_ more bonus feats, so he can spread his feats out to gain more variety.

Long story short (too late), the Gunslinger is a Specialized Fighter, he is good at shooting things. While the Fighter can do whatever he wants to do, even shoot guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
I'm actually having a bit of trouble deciding how I want my gunslinger rogue to develop in the later levels. She's going to be focused on staying fairly close to the enemy, 20 - 15 feet, and when she gets the skirmish ability she'll be circling around the battlefield pulling off sneak attacks. Any suggestions?
Well Skirmish comes at Rogue(Scout) 8, which gives 12 levels to work with. You'll probably want a bare minimum of 5 levels of Gunslinger (Dex-to-Damage). This leave 7 levels to work with. Might I interest you in some levels of Summoner? (see my post higher up the page) With Rogue(Scout) you'll only be guaranteed Sneak Attack on the first attack, but if you can catch someone off guard anyway, the damage could be enormous.

Barring Summoner... Gunslinger 8 is a decent stopping point as the next two levels only offer Gun Training on a second type of firearm, and another point of Nimble AC. Although if you go Pistolero, then level 9 will give you an extra +1 to damage.
Dipping Fighter for 1-to-4 levels is also viable. Levels 1,2 & 4 get you feats, and level 3 can be either an Armor Training bonus, or a +1 to-hit and Damage (weapon master).

Put any remaining levels into either Rogue or Gunslinger, as there isn't too much to gain from other dips.
grarrrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 09:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Exelbirth
Pixie in the Playground
 
NecromancerGirl
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Well Skirmish comes at Rogue(Scout) 8, which gives 12 levels to work with. You'll probably want a bare minimum of 5 levels of Gunslinger (Dex-to-Damage). This leave 7 levels to work with. Might I interest you in some levels of Summoner? (see my post higher up the page) With Rogue(Scout) you'll only be guaranteed Sneak Attack on the first attack, but if you can catch someone off guard anyway, the damage could be enormous.

Barring Summoner... Gunslinger 8 is a decent stopping point as the next two levels only offer Gun Training on a second type of firearm, and another point of Nimble AC. Although if you go Pistolero, then level 9 will give you an extra +1 to damage.
Dipping Fighter for 1-to-4 levels is also viable. Levels 1,2 & 4 get you feats, and level 3 can be either an Armor Training bonus, or a +1 to-hit and Damage (weapon master).

Put any remaining levels into either Rogue or Gunslinger, as there isn't too much to gain from other dips.[/quote]

I'm going to avoid summoner because the campaign this character will most likely be in is in a world that has limited interdimensional travel, making summons and dimension hopping fairly useless. Also, you can only fly for five minutes max.

I toyed a bit with Pistolero, but if I remember correctly, pistol training gives me a + to both attack and damage, with 5 max as straight Pistolero, and gun training gives me a + to damage equal to my dex. Since I plan on having a high dex using a ranged weapon, gun training would be the better option, so I agree with stopping before taking the next level with gun training.

Also, I was looking at the grit feat Leaping Shot, and I was wondering how that would apply with skirmish. Would I be able to make three sneak attacks at the expense of going prone, or would it only count the first one still, making the feat a bad option?

I hadn't thought of using any fighter levels until you mentioned them, and I think that might actually be worth it.
Exelbirth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 10:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Starbuck_II
Titan in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 
Enterprise, Alabama
Gender: Male
Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larpus View Post
Or just hope that they apply what they're learning as far as class design go to the old classes...I mean the UC Rage Powers are horrid.
Is Dragon Totem in UC? Because It increases to your DR and adds Double new DR value as Energy Resistance.
Which is nice.
Starbuck_II is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Usage of this site, including but not limited to making or editing a post or private message or the creation of an account, constitutes acceptance of the Forum Rules.