Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[101jir]

Originally Posted by flabort

So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?

I think I proposed about 3 that I either didn't do or couldn't find a way to work out. Never started.

[Internet Flea]

Originally Posted by flabort

So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?

I proposed a couple of games that never got anywhere. I also ran a game that didn't work.

So yes.

[flabort]

Ah. Multiple cases for some people, even. I feel better, then

I'll see if I can't figure out a way, to someday run an open WW that works. Lets chalk up one failure to me, but victory is imminent. It is always within grasp, one just has to reach with a massive Mech Arm.

Say... Maybe I can make a Giant Robots WW.... Nah, there's already Convoy, and I'd need to learn about some anime series otherwise.
Matrix WW? Ooh. sounds cool, but definitely not Open. Who's an Agent ?

Yeah, yeah. If there's not already a Matrix WW, I'll get right on figuring out how to make one.

[bladescape]

Originally Posted by flabort

So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?

I've got at least one which hasn't... Although be warned, Madness will be back.

Originally Posted by Ramsus

Sheesh, Bladescape. When would you like us to kill you then?

Preferrably not in the Central thread. That'd be a crying shame because, say, I wouldn't be able to Narrate any more.

[Internet Flea]

Originally Posted by flabort

Ah. Multiple cases for some people, even. I feel better, then

I'll see if I can't figure out a way, to someday run an open WW that works. Lets chalk up one failure to me, but victory is imminent. It is always within grasp, one just has to reach with a massive Mech Arm.

Say... Maybe I can make a Giant Robots WW.... Nah, there's already Convoy, and I'd need to learn about some anime series otherwise.
Matrix WW? Ooh. sounds cool, but definitely not Open. Who's an Agent ?

Yeah, yeah. If there's not already a Matrix WW, I'll get right on figuring out how to make one.

That could be pretty cool. My idea; The Agents are the Masons, and whenever an Agent is killed another player becomes an Agent. Then the resistance have the ability to unplug people (recruitment), and if an Agent is unplugged the player dies and that Agent is eliminated.

And Neo takes some ridiculous condition to kill.

[Lady Tialait]

Rum Runners 2: The Reestablishment

Roles:

Spoiler

Mafia:

Spoiler

The Don: Banner Mason (chooses Da Boyz)
Da Boyz: Mason
Hitman: Killer
Runner: Villager
Fixer: Seer
Strongman: Recruiter

Objective: To have no FBI left.

Cops:

Spoiler

Police Chief: Neutral Alpha/Mason (Chooses other Cops)
Good Cop: Baner/Mason
Bad Cop: Killer/Mason

Objective: Survive to the end of the game.

FBI:

Spoiler

Head of FBI: Alpha
Star Agent: Beast
Agent: Wolf
Snitch: Devil

Objective: Have majority of players (51%)

There are three players who choose their teams. The Mafia has priority, followed by Cops, then FBI. If the Cops choose someone who already has a role, then they will be told that person is not available, and asked to choose again. The FBI will choose last. The rest of the roles will be given out randomly.

The Mafia's Recruiter will be able to change someone's role from whatever it is, to Runner.


What do you guys think?

[Gray Mage]

So, it's possible for the FBI to know some likely candidates for the baner and masons before game ends? This doesn't sound like a good idea.

Other then that it's good.

[Lady Tialait]

I am thinking either the FBI choosing second, or the Cops choosing second. I figured with Mafia + Cops already choosing it would create more uncertainty for the FBI.

The order of choosing is the big issue here. If it goes FBI then Cops then Mafia, then there could be issues of the Mafia knowing the wolves. The Cops I see as second differently, it causes uncertainty. I could just randomize the Mafia, and I think that could fix the problem.

[Zjoot]

If you need a co-narrator, I had fun with the last one. Although I'd rather play.

EDIT: As far as the recruitment goes, maybe you could have the FBI go last and pick enough extra players to cover the cops and the masons and choose randomly from that list.

[flabort]

Alright, so the Matrix WW isn't going to be an Open WW. But, here are the roles and win conditions I've figured out so far:

Spoiler

Team Citizenry
Win Condition: Eliminate all Rebels and Agents, without The One being found

Spoiler

Citizen (Villiager)
You are just a normal citizen. No special Night Actions.

Police (Mason)
The squad of police works together in a group. They know each other well, and are told each others identities.

S.W.A.T. (seer + Fool)
The SWAT team is made of elite infiltration specialists, and are able to get onto the scene of conflict rapidly.
The SWAT members may Scry one target each, each night. They PM their Scry action, and which player to scry. They are told the member either belongs to the rebel team, Agent team, or if it belongs to team citizenry, their exact role (with the exception of The One).
One SWAT member is always told the truth. The other, has a 50% chance of being wrong.

The One (Secret - Vigilante)
Is told it's a Citizen.
Upon being Unplugged, is not removed from the game, but is recruited, meaning it switches teams to Team Rebel. It then gets the ability to Night kill.
The One (after being recruited) PMs a target, and that target is killed, and turns up dead the next morning. This is the only ability that can kill an agent.
If The One has been recruited, it must be targeted for killing twice within three phases (two nights and a day, or two days and a night), without interference by the Hacker.

Team Rebels
Win Condition: Recruit The One, and kill all Agents

Spoiler

Captain (Alpha)
Capable of coordinating the rest of the rebels in his group, the Captain gets to choose his own team. Before play begins, he PMs a list of players, who then get randomly assigned roles within this team.
You get to Unplug people with the help of your crew members. See thier description as to how it works.
Since you pick your team, you know of all of them. You are informed which one is your Hacker. You think the Oracle is another crewman.

Crewman (Wolf-ish)
Nothing special about you. Oh, yeah, you work with the captain to unplug people, which is pretty much a night kill.
They decide together, and PM a target, who is removed from the Matrix. They go on to live happy lives in Xion, rather than dieing, though. They are still removed from the game.
The one exception is The One, who is recruited to the Rebel's cause instead of being removed from the game.
You know the identities of all the other crewmen, the hacker, and the Captain. You also know of the Oracle, but think she's a crewman.

Oracle (Devil-ish)
You may or may not be able to see the future. Anyways, you serve as a guide to the rebels, and may Scry someone each night. PM a target, and you will learn their exact role.
You know the roles and identities of everyone on your team already. Except for The One. That's why your scrying, partially to find him.

Hacker (Baner (night and day))
You rarely, if ever, go back into the Matrix. Rather, you usually help out your friends, by giving them the equipment, abilities, and programing they need to escape death, or capture, by Hacking the Matrix.
You PM a target. They are safe, and cannot be night killed, or lynched, that night or the following day. You may target anyone, on your team or off.
You know the identities of the crewmen and captain. You also know of the Oracle, but think she's another crewman.

Team Agents
Win Condition: Kill The One, and destroy all Rebels

Spoiler

Agent (Wolf)
Each night, the Agents get a Night kill. They decide a target amongst themselves. They then PM a target, and it turns up dead the next day. The entire group only gets one night kill.
As well, each night, each one get a Decoy. They PM a target, and if their killed that night or the next day (except by The One), the target is killed instead of them. If they target a member of Team Rebel, a random team citizen member will be killed instead.
All Agents know each other, and the Smith.

Smith (Devil)
The SWAT of the Agents. Smith is The One's negative. Smith... is kind of not fond of the Matrix. But he's really good at finding Rebels.
Each night, in addition to the group night kill and his personal Decoy, Smith may Scry a target. He is told the target's specific role, every time.
He knows all the other Agents.

The One is not, unfortunately hard to kill, and I need to add another ability to make him less kill-able. And if he's killed, and all agents are killed, that may end up with a non-winnable situation.

So, I need to figure out how to make The One less vulnerable (I already have the Hacker, but he's got other targets too). Say, if he is targeted to die in one phase, he must be targeted in the next as well? Never mind.

Anyways, this ends up essentially two teams of wolves, with one wolf team being "good", and the villager team being neutral instead of good. And the Evil wolf team being all but unkillable. ...yeah, if team neutral wants to win, they have to help team good, then turn on them afterwards. All the while losing more and more numbers.

Good idea? Bad idea? Already claimed (I hope not)?
Nope, not claimed, not a single entry is found using Ctrl+F in the Archives. Yes....

[Gray Mage]

Originally Posted by Lady Tialait

I am thinking either the FBI choosing second, or the Cops choosing second. I figured with Mafia + Cops already choosing it would create more uncertainty for the FBI.

The order of choosing is the big issue here. If it goes FBI then Cops then Mafia, then there could be issues of the Mafia knowing the wolves. The Cops I see as second differently, it causes uncertainty. I could just randomize the Mafia, and I think that could fix the problem.

It's only uncertain until the FBI sends a scry. Then they either have a potential ally or a potential target. I'd maybe check with supagoof and zar peter how they did it, since in Ye Old West there are two alpha sides that picked their own team members.

By the way, I realised that a villager recruiter would be a game breaker, wouldn't it?

Edit: @Flabort: What does this "thinks the oracle is another crewman" mean?

[flabort]

Originally Posted by Gray Mage

Edit: @Flabort: What does this "thinks the oracle is another crewman" mean?

So, the Captain chooses, lets say four members. So, a five man team. everyone knows eachother on the team. And they know the Captain's and Hacker's Roles. But they don't know which of the other three rebels is the oracle. OK, so the oracle might tell them. But their just told the player who gets the role of oracle is a "crewman".

[Gray Mage]

Originally Posted by flabort

So, the Captain chooses, lets say four members. So, a five man team. everyone knows eachother on the team. And they know the Captain's and Hacker's Roles. But they don't know which of the other three rebels is the oracle. OK, so the oracle might tell them. But their just told the player who gets the role of oracle is a "crewman".

...why wouldn't the oracle tell them this?

It sounds like it'd just make the oracle have to say it instead of them knowing since the begining without any reason, with is kind of pointless IMO, no offence meant.

[flabort]

Yeah, that occurred to me when I was typing my reply. It's not like the seer in a team that doesn't know each other.

So, I'll change it in the final version. I think this one is actually playable, though. Hard, and if the One is killed before being recruited, it's either a no-win or agent win, but the Matrix was a very, very unfriendly setting. Very gritty, and very unfair to the protagonists in the movie.

Such an unfair WW would be fitting. OK, So, this is a Small WW, officially requesting to open Oct 31, the same day as Trick or Treat 2 (two small games can start on the same week, right? Or a small at the same time as a Large?). Just wondering, should I start recruitment right away if that date is OK, or wait a week or two?

[Gray Mage]

Originally Posted by flabort

Yeah, that occurred to me when I was typing my reply. It's not like the seer in a team that doesn't know each other.

So, I'll change it in the final version. I think this one is actually playable, though. Hard, and if the One is killed before being recruited, it's either a no-win or agent win, but the Matrix was a very, very unfriendly setting. Very gritty, and very unfair to the protagonists in the movie.

Such an unfair WW would be fitting. OK, So, this is a Small WW, officially requesting to open Oct 31, the same day as Trick or Treat 2 (two small games can start on the same week, right? Or a small at the same time as a Large?). Just wondering, should I start recruitment right away if that date is OK, or wait a week or two?

You should probably make a note on the decoy ability that it's ignored by the One's kill. And you could make it so the one survives his first kill, to help prevent the no kill situation.

Or make it so the rebels and agents need to have be half of the remaining players after the other faction is rooted, that would fix the one dying before recruiting problem.

[Lady Tialait]

A Villager Recruiter would break the game? Really? I think it would be interesting. Give me a rundown as to why it would break the game. After all, the way I have it written, he could accidentally recruit the Don and destroy the power role.

[Gray Mage]

Originally Posted by Lady Tialait

A Villager Recruiter would break the game? Really? I think it would be interesting. Give me a rundown as to why it would break the game. After all, the way I have it written, he could accidentally recruit the Don and destroy the power role.

Recruit a wolf, he gives out the other wolves, game is as good as done.

Edit: I think it could work if the wolves were to be blind, though.

[Internet Flea]

Originally Posted by Gray Mage

...why wouldn't the oracle tell them this?

...because there's a Spy?

Or make it so the rebels and agents need to have be half of the remaining players after the other faction is rooted, that would fix the one dying before recruiting problem.

Or make him invincible until he's recruited.

Also, I know it doesn't fit the setting, but the Agents need to be significantly crippled. Maybe only one Agent gets a Decoy during any given night phase. Having them be invincible unless the One is recruited is vastly overpowered.

[Ramsus]

Flabort, if every agent has the Decoy ability this make's night kills from the rebel team more or less only good for killing civilians. You might want to limit the amount of Decoyness (only X per night per team or everyone can use it but only every other day or something).

[Gray Mage]

Originally Posted by Internet Flea

...because there's a Spy?

Sorry, but you've lost me there.

Originally Posted by Internet Flea

Or make him invincible until he's recruited.

Also, I know it doesn't fit the setting, but the Agents need to be significantly crippled. Maybe only one Agent gets a Decoy during any given night phase. Having them be invincible unless the One is recruited is vastly overpowered.

They are hard to kill, but invincible is pushing it a bit, don't you think? Nevermind, I'd read the decoy as if it only worked on NKs. Yes, that has to go.

Also, are you thinking on implementing the "take over" thing that happens when an agent dies? If so, you could have part of the agent team members "inactive agents" that aren't aware that they're agents and become aware when a known agent dies. Sort of like the assassins' games do.

[Lady Tialait]

Good call on the recruiter. I think that could end the game too quickly.

So, I will remove the recruiter, and I am waiting for more imput before changing the Masons.

[Internet Flea]

Originally Posted by Gray Mage

Sorry, but you've lost me there.

Simple; the Oracle would have a reason to stay hidden if there was a Spy among the Rebels; either a Cop or a Disgruntled Rebel or an Agent.
So this is me recommending adding a Spy to the Rebels.

Originally Posted by Gray Mage

They are hard to kill, but invincible is pushing it a bit, don't you think? Nevermind, I'd read the decoy as if it only worked on NKs. Yes, that has to go.

Also, are you thinking on implementing the "take over" thing that happens when an agent dies? If so, you could have part of the agent team members "inactive agents" that aren't aware that they're agents and become aware when a known agent dies. Sort of like the assassins' games do.

Or you could have them pick someone to replace them, and if they pick a Rebel (and probably a few villager roles) it fails, they die and the role is not replaced.
Plus maybe a percentage chance of it failing for certain power roles being in play.

[Ramsus]

What stops the Spy from just outing all the Rebels at the start?

[Zjoot]

Perhaps the spy is a neutral-ish role? He works with the rebels, but wants the oracle dead for a personal reason or something as part of his win condition.

[super dark33]

Originally Posted by Lady Tialait

Rum Runners 2: The Reestablishment

Roles:

Spoiler

Mafia:

Spoiler

The Don: Banner Mason (chooses Da Boyz)
Da Boyz: Mason
Hitman: Killer
Runner: Villager
Fixer: Seer
Strongman: Recruiter

Objective: To have no FBI left.

Cops:

Spoiler

Police Chief: Neutral Alpha/Mason (Chooses other Cops)
Good Cop: Baner/Mason
Bad Cop: Killer/Mason

Objective: Survive to the end of the game.

FBI:

Spoiler

Head of FBI: Alpha
Star Agent: Beast
Agent: Wolf
Snitch: Devil

Objective: Have majority of players (51%)

There are three players who choose their teams. The Mafia has priority, followed by Cops, then FBI. If the Cops choose someone who already has a role, then they will be told that person is not available, and asked to choose again. The FBI will choose last. The rest of the roles will be given out randomly.

The Mafia's Recruiter will be able to change someone's role from whatever it is, to Runner.


What do you guys think?

i like that!

[flabort]

Oy. OK... So...
I go to sleep. during the night, I realize that I'd given the citizens an impossible win condition, and the no-win condition couldn't happen:
Reason, to kill agents, The One has to be found. So... I significantly either need to Nerf the agents, And/or change the win conditions a little.

And when I wake up, I see people telling me the Agents are too strong

@ Internet Flea: I considered having a Traitor (Spy/Disgruntled Rebel/whatever), decided against it. It's already hard enough of a game.

Also, thing is, in the movies, until Neo was recruited and told he was The One, he was an ordinary guy. OK, a bit of a criminal, but an ordinary guy. The Agents didn't kill him right away when they found him, because they wanted to use him to locate+kill Morpheus.

And making him invincible before recruitment just gives him away.

@ Ramsus: Yes, Decoy is too strong. Maybe only works on Night Kills (Aka unpluggings)? Or, similar to The One's ability, they can't be killed unless targeted twice in three phases? Except, I'd make it four for agents, and the first targeting kills a Decoy.

General: Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to change the Agent's Decoy ability, so that If the decoy is killed, the ability cannot be used again the next night. Leaving him open for about two to three phases.

The list of roles above is not going to get edited with this change. Rather, I have a text document with all the formatting the first post will be in, and have put the changes there. If I make enough changes, I might repost the roles.

So If I understand the rules on small games and scheduling, since I've requested Oct 31, I wait until that date to post the thread and start recruitment? Or do I start the thread now, and recruit until Oct 31? Or is the latter for Large games?

Anyways, the thread would be called The Matrix Rewound. If the title is necessary for scheduling purposes.

[Penguinator]

Originally Posted by bladescape

Preferrably not in the Central thread. That'd be a crying shame because, say, I wouldn't be able to Narrate any more.

Day XX Ends.

"C'mon, guys, it was a joke! Don't kill me he-"
But it was too late. The blade plunged straight through the man's heart, killing him instantly.
A few of the others stood around around, blinking at what had just happened. Eyeing the corpse, one looked at the killer with scornful contempt. "I hope you're proud of yourself."

Spoiler

bladescape was lynched. He was A Pretty Awesome Narrator.

[Ramsus]

Hahahaha. *claps*

Oh...right. Oops. *fishes out a Phoenix Down he pocketed from the Final Fantasy game and uses it on Bladescape*

[Xanmyral]

No, not Bladescape! Someone grab the Defib, there might still be time!

CLEAR!
*Bzzt*

EDIT: To actually contribute somewhat...

I'm actually surprised no one has done a Matrix WW. While I agree that things should be a bit more balanced, I agree and want it to be hard and stacked for the Agents to give it that Matrix feel.

[super dark33]

IDEA FOR THE IDEALESS NERRATOR HOST:
Write your death scene!
everyone are narrators! the lynch target or the night kill target write their own scenes, any theme they want!

what do you think?