Lets Invent some Tier 6s! PEACHers Encouraged!

[DracoDei]

Actually, I may just stick with what I have, but put it in another thread. Variety is good(but not for this specific thread)... or maybe I will do both. OTOH we do have two other attempts in this thread, and if those suffice...

Originally Posted by dspeyer

Lesser Martialist: at level twenty, this enters an encounter able to perform 2 9th level maneuvers and an 8th level maneuver many times. They can be chosen from good disciplines. That's too good for T6, even if everything else about the class sucks.

So would 2/3 initiator progression be the way to go (if anywhere), or is 3/4 actually acceptable? All the way down to 1/2?

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

No. By strict RAW, it requires warblade, swordsage, or crusader level 1st. By RAMS, it requires one level in a martial adept class.

Ah, will specifically nerf-bat that then if I continue with this.

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Even without Adaptive Style, with the stances it's still tier 5 at the minimum.

Well, reducing the initiator level progression should help with that too, but I can reduce that too if people think it necessary.

[dspeyer]

Originally Posted by DracoDei

So would 2/3 initiator progression be the way to go (if anywhere), or is 3/4 actually acceptable? All the way down to 1/2?

1/2 would probably be too far, since at that point a warrior can just take martial study. 3/4 is simpler, since it's a new maneuver level every 3 class levels. I'm not sure what 2/3 looks like.

[Noctis Vigil]

Originally Posted by Amechra

They already get extra pp from having a high intelligence modifier, and Expanded Knowledge can get them more stuff.

The Elementalist is stronger than you think; Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct) at 6th level would be a lovely boost...

Dang, I just noticed that they have 1/3 manifesting level; I would suggest raising that to 1/2, just because it comes out a little nicer, in my mind (and they wouldn't be able to manifest 4th level powers with a manifester level of 6. Sorry.)

I specifically left it at 1/3ML, simply because they can still take that feat if they so choose. If I raise their ML any, I'll be putting a ban on Expanded Knowledge. What is the general consensus on this? Raise ML to 1/2 and block the feat, or leave it as is? I kind of feel I should block the feat, after much reconsideration, but I'd like to hear what you all think.

[Veklim]

Leave as is, it's the class in itself which is aiming for T6, optimisation is a completely seperate consideration. Besides, at 1/3 ML having access to Exp. Knowledge doesn't help so much.

[Amechra]

I was actually suggesting a ML of 1/2 level because they LITERALLY CANNOT USE A 4TH LEVEL POWER!

That would require a ML of 7, which would require level 21.

[dspeyer]

Originally Posted by Amechra

I was actually suggesting a ML of 1/2 level because they LITERALLY CANNOT USE A 4TH LEVEL POWER!

That would require a ML of 7, which would require level 21.

Not true. There's no general rule linking ML to powers known. Most 4th lvl powers cost 7pp, but energy burst only costs 5.

[Garryl]

Originally Posted by dspeyer

Not true. There's no general rule linking ML to powers known. Most 4th lvl powers cost 7pp, but energy burst only costs 5.

Since the class does not specifically state otherwise, yet still made learns it as a 4th level power, Energy Burst costs 7 PP.

Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil

An Elementalist's manifester level goes up slowly, once every third level (1 at 1st, 2 at third, et cetra).

This is slightly confusing. The text says 1 ML per 3 levels, which would mean an ML of 0 from level 1-2, ML 1 at level 3, ML 2 at level 6, ML 3 at level 9, ML 4 at level 12, ML 5 at level 15, and ML 6 at level 18. However, the example states otherwise. Judging from the example and the levels at which new powers are gained, was the ML supposed to be 1 + 1/3 class levels?

Edit:

Originally Posted by dspeyer

1/2 would probably be too far, since at that point a warrior can just take martial study. 3/4 is simpler, since it's a new maneuver level every 3 class levels. I'm not sure what 2/3 looks like.

New maneuver levels come every 2 IL. A 2/3 IL progression gives a new level of maneuvers every 3 levels (1st level maneuvers come at level 2, up until 7th level maneuvers at level 20). A 3/4 IL progression gives 3 levels of maneuvers over the course of every 8 levels (1st level maneuvers come at level 2, 2nd at 4, 3rd at 7, 4th at 10, 5th at 12, 6th at 15, 7th at 18, and 8th at level 20).

[Amechra]

That's because Energy Burst is a 3rd level power.

I mean, check Empathic Feedback; it shows the difference in power point costs through a power having a different pp cost based on being different levels for different classes.

And, as for it never explicitly says that it needs to cost x many PP...

Originally Posted by SRD

POWER POINTS
All powers have a Power Points line, indicating the power’s cost.

The psionic character class tables show how many power points a character has access to each day, depending on level.

A power’s cost is determined by its level, as shown below. Every power’s cost is noted in its description for ease of reference.
Table: Power Points by Power Level

Please do the research before you make claims.

EDIT: Damn it, Garryl, stop poststealing, you ninja you!

[dspeyer]

Ah, I'd missed that. I'd gotten used to looking at power descriptions. Energy Burst is usually 3rd level.

It would seem elegant to increase the base damage to 7d6. Or maybe neater to just swap in energy ball.

Also it would be neater if the new powers all occurred at 6n+1, instead of 6n except the first. And it might be clearer if ml were a column in the table.

[dspeyer]

These are addictive.

The Hunter-Gatherer

Somehow when civilized folks say "barbarian" they aren't thinking of a rich oral tradition and a flexible social structure rooted in respect for the tribal elders.

						spells	known	spells	per day
level	fort	ref	will	bab	special	0th	1st	0th	1st
1	0	0	0	0	favored family +2
2	0	0	0	1	track
3	1	1	1	1	there are no stores (+2 on all craft checks)
4	1	1	1	2	endurance
5	1	1	1	2	hide in plain sight (natural terrain only)
6	2	2	2	3	favored family +4/+2	2		1
7	2	2	2	3		2		2
8	2	2	2	4	animal companion (as 1st level druid)	3		2
9	3	3	3	4		3		3
10	3	3	3	5		4		3
11	3	3	3	5	favored family +6/+4/+2	4		4
12	4	4	4	6		5		4
13	4	4	4	6	animal companion (as 4th level druid)	5	1	4	0
14	4	4	4	7		5	1	4	1
15	5	5	5	7		5	1	5	1
16	5	5	5	8	favored family +8/+6/+4/+2	6	1	5	1
17	5	5	5	8		6	2	5	1
18	6	6	6	9	animal companion (as 8th level druid)	6	2	5	2
19	6	6	6	9		6	2	6	2
20	6	6	6	10	commune with nature 1/day	6	3	6	2

Hit die: d6
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Rope
Skill Points: 8+int
Weapons: Dagger, Club, Spear and Shortbow
Armor: none

Spellcasting is spontaneous, wisdom-based and from the druid list.

favored family: pick a family of animals or plants (such as bears or roses). Gain a +2 bonus on survival, knowledge(nature) and search checks related to that family. Every five levels, gain another family and increase all existing families by 2.

edit: add 1 to all the 0th level spells/day because there are no bonus 0th level spells

[Paulcynic]

Housecat
"Meow" -Housecat

-Is a housecat

lul

THE SELF-DEFENSE ENTHUSIAST

The Title made me chuckle, yet the class seems a perfect T6 :) ty for the contribution.

Wretched Coward

I loved this one, its really in the spirit of the thread! Also, I appreciate all of the psionic conversions, though Pathfinder doesn't yet have them, and so I'll leave the critiques to the 3.5 crowd :)

is the master angry?

Believe it or not, you're actually creating some useful social abilities, lul. Humor aside :)

The School Teacher

Totally awesome, I actually think a Bard/School Teacher would make a great combo, but then again... if you drop the Bard it'd be even better!

Thanks all, glad this has taken on a life of its own :)

--PC

[DracoDei]

Originally Posted by dspeyer

These are addictive.

The Hunter-Gatherer

Spoiler

Somehow when civilized folks say "barbarian" they aren't thinking of a rich oral tradition and a flexible social structure rooted in respect for the tribal elders.

Hit die: d6
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Rope
Skill Points: 8+int
Weapons: Dagger, Club, Spear and Shortbow
Armor: none

Spellcasting is spontaneous, wisdom-based and from the druid list.

favored family: pick a family of animals or plants (such as bears or roses). Gain a +2 bonus on survival, knowledge(nature) and search checks related to that family. Every five levels, gain another family and increase all existing families by 2.

You need to bump up the 0th level spells per day by 1 each or otherwise modify, because you don't get bonus 0th levels. Maybe say that any bonus spells of higher than the highest level you can cast (at that particular class level) apply to 0th level instead? It would be an odd mechanic, but I think it would work...

[Veklim]

Just go 1 at 6/7, then 2 at 8/9/10.
Sorted!

[dspeyer]

Originally Posted by DracoDei

You need to bump up the 0th level spells per day by 1 each or otherwise modify, because you don't get bonus 0th levels.

Edited in.

[Noctis Vigil]

I apologize if I'm breaking forum etiquette by reviving this; I finished this one a bit ago but never got to posting it.

I'm not sure about this one. I feel that the Barbarian is already a pretty crappy class, so it kind of hurt to make it crappier. Still, here you go, a T6 Barbarian:

Savage

Spoiler

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Class Abilities
1	+1	+2	+0	+0	Illiteracy
2	+2	+3	+0	+0	Rage 1/day
3	+3	+3	+1	+1
4	+4	+4	+1	+1	Fast Movement
5	+5	+4	+1	+1
6	+6/+1	+5	+2	+2	Rage 2/day
7	+7/+2	+5	+2	+2
8	+8/+3	+6	+2	+2
9	+9/+4	+6	+3	+3
10	+10/+5	+7	+3	+3	Rage 3/day
11	+11/+6/+1	+7	+3	+3	Damage Reduction 1/-
12	+12/+7/+2	+8	+4	+4
13	+13/+8/+3	+8	+4	+4
14	+14/+9/+4	+9	+4	+4	Rage 4/day
15	+15/+10/+5	+9	+5	+5
16	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+5	+5	Damage Reduction 2/-
17	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+5
18	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+6	Rage 5/day
19	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+6
20	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+6

Hit Die: D10
Skill Points: 2 + Int mod per level
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Proficiencies: Savages are proficient with all simple weapons, the handaxe, the warhammer, the greataxe and the greatclub. They are proficient with light armor and with light shields.

Illiteracy, Rage, Fast Movement, Damage Reduction: As the Barbarian class abilities of the same name.

I feel the full BAB may be too much; should I make it 3/4BAB?

Also, edited the Elementalist to gain ML at every odd level.

Also also, still working on a T6 Ranger/Scout.

For easy perusal, all my T6 classes are on the first page in my first post in this thread.

[Ashtagon]

That savage is overpowered. It's T5 at least, possibly even T4.

Drop uncanny dodge and tireless rage.

Move fast movement to 4th level.

3/4 BAB

[Noctis Vigil]

T5 I can understand, but how in heck does this hit T4? The original Barbarian is solidly in 4. Still, I will nerf it.

Tireless Rage can go, I can see where it's breaking the limit. Uncanny Dodge was also removed. I left the BAB at full; it's no more powerful than my Holy Warrior T6 at this point.

[dangermunk]

I have never home-brewed and my doctor says I have a table allergy, but how about the spectaculenduferous class
...
The Fat Person
Advantages: takes significantly less falling damage, has a lot of hit points, some resistance to blunt weapons, and can sit on an enemy by moving into their square and making an unarmed check

Disadvantages: slow, worse at dodge rolls, and bad at disguise and diplomacy checks

Possible other abilities: chokes enemies by smothering them, anvil-like flattening abilities, and ability to increase size at will