Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLI: No Morals! No Quarter! All Brutal!

[TheArsenal]

Heh another funny thing from the SA thread:

Oh, you set fire to the church, did you? Guess we'll have to have a traditional elven wedding after all. Well played, Donovan

[TheArsenal]

[quote]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

DO note that all this mess is because of a quite big conflict of interest between Donovan and the Senior Deegans.

And they are still more justified then Don.

And as for reacting understandably, just because YOU cant understand their reaction doesnt mean other people cant.

This is a crappy excuse for puppet based characters. So if a guy just suddenly became a dog in a webcomic its not because it makes no sense. Its because YOU don't know why it happened. Of course other got it.

But dont worry, if the arc really is so abhorent to you, then i have just the solution, start reading something else, there are plenty of other good fantasy comics out there.

Not this again.

They most likely will be a little bit annoyed, but do remember that they won the war in the wedding design

No they LOST the war. Thier daughter is getting married to an immature jobless prick. They where collecting their losses by just asking for a standard wedding.

It most certainly does.

No it doesn't. A compramise does not warrant a "Pshyche- **** you!" moment.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Out of all the possible things we could argue about in this arc, we are arguing over whether or not parents taking creative control of their child's wedding is bad or not. I definitely didn't see that one coming. Then again, I never considered before that someone might have the viewpoint that parents should have creative control over their child's wedding.

EDIT: other than parents.

[Toast1862]

Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama

Out of all the possible things we could argue about in this arc, we are arguing over whether or not parents taking creative control of their child's wedding is bad or not. I definitely didn't see that one coming. Then again, I never considered before that someone might have the viewpoint that parents should have creative control over their child's wedding.

EDIT: other than parents.

Mm... that's not entirely what I'm trying to say. I think that if the parents are paying for it and are of the social status where they need to watch what they do and fit in properly, the parents should have control. If the kids are paying for at least half of it, their friends are the ones going and no one will really care what they do, then yes the couple should have control. I think this is a situation where the parents should, though.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Originally Posted by Toast1862

Mm... that's not entirely what I'm trying to say. I think that if the parents are paying for it and are of the social status where they need to watch what they do and fit in properly, the parents should have control. If the kids are paying for at least half of it, their friends are the ones going and no one will really care what they do, then yes the couple should have control. I think this is a situation where the parents should, though.

And I'm of the opinion that money shouldn't get to determine who's right and who's wrong, but that's another area where I disagree with my parents and a lot of other people (and, shameful or not, appear to agree with Mookie).

[Traab]

Originally Posted by Toast1862

Mm... that's not entirely what I'm trying to say. I think that if the parents are paying for it and are of the social status where they need to watch what they do and fit in properly, the parents should have control. If the kids are paying for at least half of it, their friends are the ones going and no one will really care what they do, then yes the couple should have control. I think this is a situation where the parents should, though.

Thats the thing though, They GOT their wedding. It was all the formal callanian wedding awesomeness that those "of their station" could want. This is the reception, and donovan plans on providing some music. Sure there are a thousand ways this COULD go wrong, but you all know how it will happen. Don will get on stage, strum his instrument, and it will be like we had never heard Bon Jovi before and he showed up and just sang his heart out. Everyone will be awed, and this is how donovan got his start to being famous. All these upper crusts heard him, thought he was amazing, and the rest is history.

[colonelslime]

Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama

And I'm of the opinion that money shouldn't get to determine who's right and who's wrong, but that's another area where I disagree with my parents and a lot of other people (and, shameful or not, appear to agree with Mookie).

My problem is less about whether parents should have creative control or not, since I would think finding a compromise that would make everyone happy would be easier, but more with the infantile one-up-manship that Mookie seems to believe would characterize a good response to controlling in-laws. We don't even know how the whole discussion ran out, true, so maybe Gwendolin and Strado (which I must admit is an awesome name) were being totally unbending in their requests. But it still seems like such a stupid, babyish thing to do, deliberately sabotage a ceremony someone else planned. It's not setting the stage for a good relationship with the parents who only just grudgingly accepted that you marry their daughter.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Originally Posted by colonelslime

My problem is less about whether parents should have creative control or not, since I would think finding a compromise that would make everyone happy would be easier, but more with the infantile one-up-manship that Mookie seems to believe would characterize a good response to controlling in-laws. We don't even know how the whole discussion ran out, true, so maybe Gwendolin and Strado (which I must admit is an awesome name) were being totally unbending in their requests. But it still seems like such a stupid, babyish thing to do, deliberately sabotage a ceremony someone else planned. It's not setting the stage for a good relationship with the parents who only just grudgingly accepted that you marry their daughter.

Eh. Childish one-upsmanship and bickering is par for the course in real families, Mookie's just exaggerating it to the point where it's stupid, is my analysis.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama

Out of all the possible things we could argue about in this arc, we are arguing over whether or not parents taking creative control of their child's wedding is bad or not. I definitely didn't see that one coming. Then again, I never considered before that someone might have the viewpoint that parents should have creative control over their child's wedding.

EDIT: other than parents.

Well, I find it helps to think of them as Drow Nobility but with less face-stabbing murder, and while just as pants-on-head stupid, they play it out slightly differently. Which is pretty much how I view fantasy nobs in general anyway, and I think helps put one in a mindset where one doesn't drown to death from frothing at the mouth at the latest Mookiecision.

[lord_khaine]

And they are still more justified then Don.

Or not.

Donovan has found someone he loves, and want to marry her.

The Senior Deegans belive they should be allowed to control the life of their adult daughter, and tries to stop this because they dont like Donovan.

And i seriously cant see how anyone could feel the SD were justified in any way.

This is a crappy excuse for puppet based characters. So if a guy just suddenly became a dog in a webcomic its not because it makes no sense. Its because YOU don't know why it happened. Of course other got it.

Yeah, its very easy to find situations where becomming a dog makes sense, so i guess it is just you.

Not this again.

Oh yes indeed.

No they LOST the war. Thier daughter is getting married to an immature jobless prick. They where collecting their losses by just asking for a standard wedding.

That were a seperate war, and it seems like you have managet to confuse Donovan and the Senior Mr Deegan, but dont worry, here is a little hint for telling them appart, Donovan is the one who HASNT been abusing his magical powers to mentaly abuse a person who were in no way able to fight back.

No it doesn't. A compramise does not warrant a "Pshyche- **** you!" moment.

Yes it does, i dont even know where you find the compromise.

[H Birchgrove]

All this talk about a wedding makes me wonder if I'm reading a thread about Twilight.

[TheArsenal]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

The Senior Deegans belive they should be allowed to control the life of their adult daughter, and tries to stop this because they dont like Donovan.

Just like any Parent they want to protect their Daughter.

They think he is an immature bum wanting after thier title and money. And are proven completly correct (Except about the money part).

He is unwilling to except the compramise (See below) and instead of making amends stuffs a big hot poker into the wound.

Yeah, its very easy to find situations where becomming a dog makes sense, so i guess it is just you.

And this whole thread (and another whole thread). Whats the sudden love LK? You know this is schlock. You know mookie makes puppets dance for bad jokes and puns.

Oh yes indeed.

Points at all the hundred previous answers made to this comment.

That were a seperate war, and it seems like you have managet to confuse Donovan and the Senior Mr Deegan, but dont worry, here is a little hint for telling them appart, Donovan is the one who HASNT been abusing his magical powers to mentaly abuse a person who were in no way able to fight back.

Oooooo they made some jokes to him. How awful. We all know magic means jack in DD otherwise Luna would have commited 2 murders to two pranksters.

They swallowed their pride and allowed their daughter to marry a guy. Not only that but they also sponsored a big fancy pants wedding. All they asked for in the end is for it to be more conservative. THEY LOOSE.

Next week all that remains of the wedding is some memories and maybe pictures. But their marriage? Its permanent. Its even past the moment they die.

Yes it does, i dont even know where you find the compromise.

Yes. Two wrongs make a right. Seriously are you realy LK?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

All this talk about a wedding makes me wonder if I'm reading a thread about Twilight.

You're reading a thread with a bored man who recently celebrated his one year anniversary about a self-insert comic whose author just got married.

[averagejoe]

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

All this talk about a wedding makes me wonder if I'm reading a thread about Twilight.

Team Jacob 4 eva! <3

Note: No, I don't know which one I'm talking about.

[Gez]

Traditional marriage is not "before God" or "before the law"; it is firstly and primarily "before the community". Everyone has to be there and be witnesses that indeed person A and person B are from now on an item. It's not for the newlyweds, it's for everybody else. Newlyweds shouldn't need all that pump and ritual to know that they love each other (or at least, have agreed to live together for sound reasons which may or may not include love among other political and financial considerations).

Mookie's conception of wedding ceremonies is much more modern -- it's a selfish reinterpretation born from our selfish consumerist society. You no longer include the whole neighborhood, just family and friend, because the neighborhood is much too large and doesn't care about you anyway. And if you need a legal proof that you're married, there's a trail of paperwork, so nobody really needs witnesses to testify that you have indeed married.

So basically, Donovan wants a modern wedding which is celebration made to boost the ego of the newlyweds and make them the stars of the day; while the Deegan gramps wanted a traditional wedding following codified rites where the aim was to establish in the eye of everybody in the community the new status. Something which, nowadays, is made not with a ceremony where everybody is invited, but with a status update on a Facebook page, or maybe a Twitter message. That's why the pump, rituals and ceremonial of traditional marriage are so silly nowadays, and people prefer to make it a big party where they do what they want in search of some form of uniqueness and individuality.

The question is, why is there a clash between traditional, formal wedding and individualist, "today's my big day" custom wedding in the Dominion. Why did traditional marriage appear and evolve the way it did? Why is it now becoming obsolete? What changed to justify all that? Of course, Dominionese society is completely nonsensical. It's modern America with a few fantasy and pseudo-medieval trappings. (I insist on pseudo. It takes more than having swords, knights, kings and castles around to make a medieval society.)

[TheArsenal]

Be careful Gez. Make sure you don't confuse a search for individuality with selfishness.

Well technicaly yes it is a form of selfishness but not one I can realy fault.

[Bobikus]

Yeah, Grandpa Deegan was being an ass before the wedding, but it does not validate Donovan's actions. He's being just as much of a child about it as his father-in-law, if not more so.

[Trazoi]

Originally Posted by engineer-errant

It doesn't help that Mookie keeps insisting that it isn't what it looks like, while not attempting any more drama than that caused by a strawman of suburban passive-aggressive conflict.

Exactly. This is why we're arguing about wedding planning, because what other reason is there for this nonsense?

I can't believe how allergic Mookie is to conflict. He manages to set up a situation where Miranda's parents dislike Donovan and want to stop the wedding, only to completely scrap this with one speech by Miranda.

Then he sets up that they're arguing about the type of wedding. Okay, sitcom potential here. Maybe Granny Deegan can keep arranging Callanian elements while Miranda sneaks in elvish ones, and after a bunch of misapplied schemes they end up with an unholy mismash but Donovan insists that them getting married is the most important thing and everyone ends up having a good time. Classic sitcom setup. But no, it's all over, and Donovan gets his own back by sabotaging the band. And Granny is okay with that. Conflict over folks.

So we're left with... what exactly? Why do we have this arc? There's no humour and from the view of the story this is entirely pointless, so the only possible reason is that Mookie has some important things about weddings he wants to share. So we're having a debate over wedding planning.

[Traab]

And I dont understand why you people keep harping on the wedding as if donovan dropped his trousers in front of the pastor. They had the wedding all according to the way the deegan parents wanted it. Every last bit of the ceremony was followed according to all ancient traditions and customs. All of it. They are at the after wedding party now. Donovan wants to play some decent music. I fail to see what the real problem is. Yes it would have been better to make the arrangements with the hired band to switch back and forth and they still get their fee, but this is not some sort of horrible faux pas that will ruin their reputation for decades to come, or some sort of not so subtle psychological ploy on the part of the bard. You people are seeing way too much horror in something that is not that big of a deal.

[TheArsenal]

Maybe the beast problem will eventually just sort out itself? Thats exactly what happens with all their recant problems.

It just trips on a dimensional twig, crashes on the king and gets churned back into elemecca.

edit:

He essentially flips the bird at the end. Its like if i did my graduation ending with "**** YOU ALL!" and ran off naked into the sunset. Nobody will remember my brilliant speach. Only the f you part.

[Trazoi]

Originally Posted by Traab

Yes it would have been better to make the arrangements with the hired band to switch back and forth and they still get their fee, but this is not some sort of horrible faux pas that will ruin their reputation for decades to come, or some sort of not so subtle psychological ploy on the part of the bard.

But why didn't Donovan say before hand that he was happy with a Callanian wedding but he'd like to play with his band at the reception? Why go for all this underhanded nonsense? If the Deegan family were that controlling of everything, why are they okay with Donovan's deception?

All Donovan has achieved is that he's spending his wedding reception playing in a band instead of with his new wife and his new family. Maybe if Donovan actually cared about not appearing to be a sneaky dishonest bard to his in-laws he wouldn't pull crap like this.

[Traab]

Originally Posted by Trazoi

But why didn't Donovan say before hand that he was happy with a Callanian wedding but he'd like to play with his band at the reception? Why go for all this underhanded nonsense? If the Deegan family were that controlling of everything, why are they okay with Donovan's deception?

All Donovan has achieved is that he's spending his wedding reception playing in a band instead of with his new wife and his new family. Maybe if Donovan actually cared about not appearing to be a sneaky dishonest bard to his in-laws he wouldn't pull crap like this.

Well like I said, a smarter way would have been to come to an arrangement with the hired band so he could do both, play some music, and dance with his new wife. As for why all the underhanded stuff, its because momma and poppa deegan ruled the planning session with an iron fist and had everything setup however they wanted instead of caring what the couple getting married wanted to do. Donovan and miranda played along for the wedding itself, that was their concession to the parents and their desire for what is right and proper, now its party time.

And to turn your argument around, maybe if the deegans had cared one single bit about what the bride and groom wanted instead of their own hoity toity, full of themselves arrogance, donovan wouldnt have to sneak around just to arrange one enjoyable aspect to the entire freaking day. (Well not counting the actual getting married part of course)

Quite frankly, neither side is really totally clean in this situation, though my sympathy is far further into donovan and mirandas side than the parents. They made a snap judgement, tortured donovan for who knows how long, then stomped all over their desires for a wedding ceremony. You know what? Let him play some ^$#^%$ music at the reception and get off his back.

[Sweetie Welf]

Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama

Out of all the possible things we could argue about in this arc, we are arguing over whether or not parents taking creative control of their child's wedding is bad or not. I definitely didn't see that one coming. Then again, I never considered before that someone might have the viewpoint that parents should have creative control over their child's wedding.

EDIT: other than parents.

Maybe Mookie gets paid by an association of parents who try to spread their message of the benefits of parental control by reversed psychology? Would explain why Mookie doesn't have to care about merchandise. Right now the comic can convince us of anything, provided an main character has the opposite view point. That, or it's the end of the world.

[TheArsenal]

Maybe the comic IS the beast. And it driving us all CRAZY!

[Trazoi]

Originally Posted by Traab

And to turn your argument around, maybe if the deegans had cared one single bit about what the bride and groom wanted instead of their own hoity toity, full of themselves arrogance, donovan wouldnt have to sneak around just to arrange one enjoyable aspect to the entire freaking day. (Well not counting the actual getting married part of course.

Frankly what I'd want is for the Deegans to be chokingly controlling, and Donovan and Miranda spend an entire arc sneaking around subverting things. Because that's conflict which can lead to both drama and comedy.

I mean really Mookie. You've got a wedding with uptight mages on one side of the church and a rag-tag bunch of elves and scruffy musicians on the other. There's conflict and hijinks aplenty in this combo. How do you make nothing out of that?!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Originally Posted by Trazoi

I mean really Mookie. You've got a wedding with uptight mages on one side of the church and a rag-tag bunch of elves and scruffy musicians on the other. There's conflict and hijinks aplenty in this combo. How do you make nothing out of that?!

Sometimes Mookie is just Mookie.

And I'm done commenting on the wedding because Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.

[Traab]

Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.

Can I triple quote this in my sig for the triple post?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Originally Posted by Traab

Can I triple quote this in my sig for the triple post?

You can quote it 500 times for the Internal Server Failure error code for all I care.

[Coidzor]

I think lit brick was linked to here. Thank you for that, whoever you were.

I'm going to just spend the time I would spend reading DD reading shakespeare instead, in an attempt to kick the habit altogether if it's not going to at least be amusingly terribad.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama

Eh. Childish one-upsmanship and bickering is par for the course in real families, Mookie's just exaggerating it to the point where it's stupid, is my analysis.

To be fair, THIS is the one bit of the last arc that has made sense to me, and that I didn't mind.

Granpa Deegan is a professional Illusionist who - in some form or another - messes with people's minds for a living. And clearly, he likes to bring his work home with him because he's not against messing around with his future Son-in-Law in private.

Him entering a tit-for-tat pranking contest with a young, rambunctious Bard should be a fun game to him, leading to a Beat You At Your Own Game moment where Donovan earns (grudging?) respect from Granpa Deegan by proving that he's as bright and imaginitive as he is.

The only gripe I have is that it should be Granpa Deegan conceding a well played game. One expert prankster to another, not the Ice Queen Granma Deegan who only knows the rigid, calculated side of Sorcery suddenly thawing out in a trice.