LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Try licking a man's beard for a minute and then try licking someone's beardless cheek and you should start to understand part of it.

I know that reason from experience, and it ain't much to complain about, deary.

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

But lots of people I know find it difficult and tiresome and expensive and they're only really doing it, or doing it as often as they do, because they feel they'll be judged by partners or even random people if they don't. And I can't say I blame them because I've had nasty things shouted at me for not shaving

Pretty much why I started. I suspect, now that I'm long gone from high school, people wouldn't actually shout open insults at me anymore, but I really don't feel like dealing with the silent scorn either.

Winter clothes are awesome that way

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Try licking a man's beard for a minute and then try licking someone's beardless cheek and you should start to understand part of it.

Not sure why someone would want to lick a woman's legs or armpits, though

[Qaera]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

If it makes you feel any better H, I did something like that a while ago...



Just wish the various LGB symbols on the sash had come out better - even included ATW's rune on there as well.

no T?

~ ♅

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Castaras

I know that reason from experience, and it ain't much to complain about, deary.

The hair stuck in one's teeth alone is a bit of a damper on festivities.

And if you knew then why did you express consternation?

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Not sure why someone would want to lick a woman's legs or armpits, though

Well, I don't want to get too explicit or anything, but foreplay comes to mind. The inner and rear thigh are a lot less "out there" than the foot, and foot fetishes are not all that uncommon as far as kinks go as far as I've seen on the subject.

Not so much the armpits though, but, come to think of it, there are some things there that would be mutually pleasant that thick, long hair or coarse stubble would prevent or diminish. More the back, arms, and legs, really.

Especially the back and the back of the neck.

And face, but that's facial hair rather than body hair.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Pretty much why I started. I suspect, now that I'm long gone from high school, people wouldn't actually shout open insults at me anymore, but I really don't feel like dealing with the silent scorn either.

Winter clothes are awesome that way

I will say that shaving or not has never mattered to me much one way. The only bad thing about not shaving is when someone who has been stops, and spends a couple days all scratchy and itchy.

Not sure why someone would want to lick a woman's legs or armpits, though

I can think of a few reasons. Then again, I'm a very tactile person, especially with my mouth, and I find most parts of the human body equally gross rather than especially so.

Edit: Ladies, gentlemen, and others... I am calling for a reverse boycott. A boycott of a boycott. And the awesome thing about this is that you get to eat lots of cookies.

[noparlpf]

I don't shave facial hair because I don't like how it feels, but I do trim it short every few days because I don't like it when it starts getting long, especially because I can't grow a full beard yet.
I don't shave other kinds of hair because I don't like how it feels (yes, I have the experience to state that) and the aesthetic value is completely lost when I never wear anything other than cargo pants and a t-shirt.

So I'm gonna buy Girl Scout cookies for the first time this year.

[H Birchgrove]

On TV-series and LGBTA:

Spoiler

OK, we have discussed that horrible new series, Work It, by the same folks who brought Friends. We have discussed how Community has only one gay character to our knowledge, and sadly that one character is a weirdo.

So lets bring up positive examples!

Murdoch Mysteries is IMHO a brilliant TV-series about the scientific police detective William Murdoch of the Toronto constabulary in the 1890s. While none of the recurring characters is LGBTA (to our knowledge), episodes have dealt with female cross-dressing in secret clubs (the victim being a transman, though not mentioned as such, but as someone who tried to live as a man), prosecution and blackmailing of gay men (and their secret clubs), feminist issues (the medical examiner is a woman, and one episode was about how abortion was a crime back then), eugenics, racism etc. It's interesting how Murdoch while being progressive for his time, is also a devoted Catholic and the show lets that have consequences. (In one episode he's passed on an promotion because of anti-Papist prejudice. As for the abortion episode and his views in it, watch it/google it.) It also doesn't shy away from the consequences of the less-than-enlightened laws back then.

My nephew:

Spoiler

During the latter part of the Christmas holidays, I heard from my mother, who then had just had a call from my sister. She told our mother that her - three year old - son wanted to try nail tint, as he had seen his mother having it. My sister obliged him. Later when they were outside, my nephew asked for cotton gloves. "Why do you need those?" my sister asked. "I don't want others to get jealous at my painted nails."

Que in "aaaawwwwws" from my parents and I. I was surprised that my dad didn't have issues with it.

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

Utopian Feminist Solution: Normalise female body hair through the media and female role models so that young women feel liberated from "having" to shave if they don't want to, resulting in a spectrum of shavedness.

I don't mind female body hair. Especially Including pubic hair. That just show you are mature, IMHO. I'm frankly annoyed at the sex enlightment/education association here, because they have started their own products for shaving genitals and pubic hair. IMO they should educate people to be more okay with body hair, not make them more influenced by the porn industry. Even if I did mind hair, I'd still think it would be up to the individual (woman or man).

I just thought something about how hairy legs signify maleness in comics and cartoons (except for the first Robins - **** Richard Grayson and Jason Todd - in Batman), and non-hairy legs signify feminity. Kinda like how eyelashes signify feminity in comics and cartoons (except for Mighty Mouse - many kids were confused, I've read). Most striking example I can think of is when the Beagle Band in Disney comics some times cross-dress in order to hide their identities, they keep "forgetting" to shave their legs so it's obvious to the readers that they're (still) male. (Why they just don't dress in pants instead of skirts is another question, since modern Disney comics do have females who dress in pants. Then again, I suppose it would have been confusing for the kids - who we always have to think of! - if the Beagle Band had been able to pass as femmes. #Immareadingtomuchintothis

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Not sure why someone would want to lick a woman's legs or armpits, though

I wouldn't mind. Armpits may seem odd, but legs seem quite natural to me, like, I dunno, feet. #Toomuchinformation

[Viera Champion]

So um... for my Global Peace and Justice midterm exam (it's the mandatory tenth grade history course at my Quaker school) part of it was to write an essay about a Non-violent Direct Action Campaign you would like to start, and how you go about it. Mine was about LGBT issues, but instead of dealing with marriage and laws and all that jazz, I did something else.
I argued that there is no such thing as inequality, and that it is just an illusion in the minds of the heteronormative community. My campaign was called the Understand Equality Campaign, and instead of fighting for equality, we would be fighting for the understanding that we always have been equal and that it is the illusion of the heteronormative community that has caused them to create laws and beliefs to back up said illusion.

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

My nephew:

Spoiler

During the latter part of the Christmas holidays, I heard from my mother, who then had just had a call from my sister. She told mother that her - three year old - son wanted to try nail tint, as he had seen mother having it. My sister obliged him. Later when they were outside, my nephew asked for cotton gloves. "Why do you need those?" my sister asked. "I don't want others to get jealous at my painted nails."

Que in "aaaawwwwws" from my parents and I. I was surprised that my dad didn't have issues with it.

Can I have him?

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

@Golentan: What area do you work in? I mean, what field, not what place. Is it PR? Also, I'm not sure because I haven't looked into it, but there may also be more women applying for PR jobs because it's a high-powered job you can get a good career out of that's not "masculine". My sample of people I know who work in PR is too small to tell, though!

I don't have any proof myself (and the forum where I could find it again is rather hostile) but I saw at least minor evidence that at least some of the disparity in pay between men and women is based on what jobs they go in for; more women go in for teaching positions than law enforcement, for example (and totally pulled from my bum) and I'm fairly certain law enforcement pays more.

So I suppose it's a bias of women picking 'women's jobs' because they want them and/or feel they are better suited. Whiiiiiich I just noticed doesn't really add anything new to the discussion at all. Hm.

Let the coffee enter the bloodstream, then pretend I know what I'm talking about. Got it.

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

You're universally liked, and why not? You always have something nice and positive to say, and it never seems forced. You are a very likeable person. Accept.

Eyup. Lix lorn is awesome.
I am tickled that misspelling your name makes it come out as 'Lixpony'

Originally Posted by Soft Serve

Curse this lanky body!

In other words, I'd like to look a little curvier and I'm not really in a situation where I can get hormone treatment any time soon. Anybody know of some good foods to eat? I'm a little too thin as is, so I'm not opposed to being fattened up a bit.

As has been said, selective muscle growth would help. Work the glutes and hips to even out the bottom half, and the legs to make it look natural.

You can also gain a little bit of weight by eating right before you go to sleep, something kinda junky but not too malicious on the body. PB&J sandwich is what I was given as a suggestion.

Also, when I shave, it tends to leave behind a five o' clock shadow. Is this just because it's been a while since I've shaved, and it'll go away so long as I keep my shaving consistent?

Not entirely sure how to help ya, as I can't shave to save my life... Lots of business folks and navy folks use electric (battery) shavers around here, but use them CONSTANTLY. It's note uncommon to see a bloke shaving in traffic, or in a line outside, or walking. And they sell ladie's shavers and such specifically for trimming those slow creeping hairs that for some reason women aren't allowed to have. So you could carry one around with you discretely, and trot off to the Lou and shave in a stall if needed.

Apologies for that being so disjointed; I'm not sure of I even addressed your question or not >.<

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

Is it that why some training techniques, like pilates, are more commonly used by women than by men?

I need to google pilates because I don't really know what it is...

Different exercises build different muscle tissue. Fast twitch muscle fibers are shorter, thicker, produce more kick and have less overall endurance. Slow twitch muscle fiber is longer, thinner, contracts slower but has more endurance. If you look at two kinds of runners - marathon runners and sprinters - you'll see the marathon folks are wicked thin, despite such fastidious training, where sprinters have big, thick muscles for more power over shorter distances.

Generally, fewer repetitions with greater resistance will build fast twitch muscle, where slower, longer exercises with less resistance will build slow twitch muscle. Pilates, yoga and a lot of lightweight cardio exercises tend towards the latter, which is why women (who are taught that bulk is bad in all ways) tend towards these exercise styles.

Another way to flatten out the bulges is to also put on fat while gaining muscle. Don't eat healthier, exactly, jus eat more as you exercise, and you'll end up with muscle that's marbleized, instead of that chunky, cut DBZ look.

This is all gleaned from nutrition, anatomy and physiology texts, a lot of net surfing, cross referencing with physical trainers and whatever medical folks I could talk to for free, and around ten years o trying to develop physical proficiency while maintaining my girlish figure. It is not actually medical advice though, so take this with salt. All of the salt.

Originally Posted by Arachu

Weight Gain:

Spoiler

Protein can 'convert' to fat (for lack of a better verb) if you don't exercise, but you'll want to exercise body parts that you don't want getting fat (situps for the belly, aerobics for legs, etc). You could get away with some of it if you're trying to gain, but you'll have to eat more of it to get the same result as much less butter.

You may want to build a bit of muscle on your legs, especially the thighs. That can contribute to reasonable curves without looking unhealthy, in moderation.

I just want to point out that to the best of my studying, you can't really target fat loss. A well endowed lady who does hundreds o sit-ups every day will also lose weight from her bust and thighs and gluteus and such, because the body pulls from everywhere to fuel itself.

That being said, more muscle mass tends to cause higher calorie burn, and specifically from the fat attached to that area/muscle. Crunches probably won't help you get rid of cutaneous belly fat specifically, but they will make your and burn more ab-fat specifically.

Hm. And now I wonder if there is a difference in testosterone output between fast- and slow-twitch muscle fiber... I'll have to look into that.

Hair Removal:

Spoiler

Also, it's an exercise that doesn't build muscle. That's a bad thing, whether the exercise is itself beneficial or not.

Muscle is a funny thing. It's less about the size of the unit as a whole and more the health of each fiber. For example, a lot of big beefy guys Rent any stronger in practice than their pudgy friends, because the bigger muscle is pre-flexed (hypertrophic), diminishing its available power. A muscle with 50 pounds of force at full power is just as useful as a 100 lb. output muscle at half capacity.

Similarly, exercises that strain the whole of the muscle unit, as well as the tendons, can actually be more beneficial. Because every fiber is engaged and you aren't just glutting the belly of the muscle, the overall output is much higher, with a smaller change in size otherwise. It also builds proprioception, which is a fancy term for coordination.

Really, no exercise is bad for you unless you go overboard. Such as marathon runners, some of whine actually end up with muscle cells turned inside out from training, or idiots like me who press a weak point to the point of cardiac distress.

Originally Posted by Arachu

On another note, it's really easy to apply conditioner to long hair if you apply it with a comb. Incidentally, doing so is good for straightening hair (before I started, my hair would curl up just above my shoulders).

I assumed that a comb would work just as well for shampoo, but that turned out to be more trouble than it's worth.

I always thought you weren't supposed to brush or comb your hair too vigorously while it was wet, as it would stretch and become prone to breakage. But I have insanely curly curls, so maybe only my hair reacts that way. *shrug*

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

I always thought you weren't supposed to brush or comb your hair too vigorously while it was wet, as it would stretch and become prone to breakage. But I have insanely curly curls, so maybe only my hair reacts that way. *shrug*

I had heard that too, which is why I never brush my hair when it's wet. And my hair is fabulous, so obviously not brushing hair when it's wet is a good plan.

[Coidzor]

Hair tangent:

Spoiler

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

It's infantilising

Implying that anyone with a preference for little to no pubic hair has pedophilic tendencies is just plain uncalled for.

And I'm really stretching to find another angle for being outraged and calling it out as horrible infantilization.

[H Birchgrove]

Originally Posted by Lil Shiro

So um... for my Global Peace and Justice midterm exam (it's the mandatory tenth grade history course at my Quaker school) part of it was to write an essay about a Non-violent Direct Action Campaign you would like to start, and how you go about it. Mine was about LGBT issues, but instead of dealing with marriage and laws and all that jazz, I did something else.
I argued that there is no such thing as inequality, and that it is just an illusion in the minds of the heteronormative community. My campaign was called the Understand Equality Campaign, and instead of fighting for equality, we would be fighting for the understanding that we always have been equal and that it is the illusion of the heteronormative community that has caused them to create laws and beliefs to back up said illusion.

This seems to be in agreement with the idea of natural law.

Can I have him?

No, but I suppose you could play with him. You'd have to ask my sister and my bro-in-law.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Different exercises build different muscle tissue. Fast twitch muscle fibers are shorter, thicker, produce more kick and have less overall endurance. Slow twitch muscle fiber is longer, thinner, contracts slower but has more endurance. If you look at two kinds of runners - marathon runners and sprinters - you'll see the marathon folks are wicked thin, despite such fastidious training, where sprinters have big, thick muscles for more power over shorter distances.

Generally, fewer repetitions with greater resistance will build fast twitch muscle, where slower, longer exercises with less resistance will build slow twitch muscle. Pilates, yoga and a lot of lightweight cardio exercises tend towards the latter, which is why women (who are taught that bulk is bad in all ways) tend towards these exercise styles.

Another way to flatten out the bulges is to also put on fat while gaining muscle. Don't eat healthier, exactly, jus eat more as you exercise, and you'll end up with muscle that's marbleized, instead of that chunky, cut DBZ look.

This is all gleaned from nutrition, anatomy and physiology texts, a lot of net surfing, cross referencing with physical trainers and whatever medical folks I could talk to for free, and around ten years o trying to develop physical proficiency while maintaining my girlish figure. It is not actually medical advice though, so take this with salt. All of the salt.

I see, thanks!

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

Utopian Feminist Solution: Normalise female body hair through the media and female role models so that young women feel liberated from "having" to shave if they don't want to, resulting in a spectrum of shavedness.

My sister was once threatened with firing for not shaving her legs. In a job that consisted of her sitting behind a desk, and noone seeing her legs.

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

On TV-series and LGBTA:

Spoiler

OK, we have discussed that horrible new series, Work It, by the same folks who brought Friends. We have discussed how Community has only one gay character to our knowledge, and sadly that one character is a weirdo.

So lets bring up positive examples!

Murdoch Mysteries is IMHO a brilliant TV-series about the scientific police detective William Murdoch of the Toronto constabulary in the 1890s. While none of the recurring characters is LGBTA (to our knowledge), episodes have dealt with female cross-dressing in secret clubs (the victim being a transman, though not mentioned as such, but as someone who tried to live as a man), prosecution and blackmailing of gay men (and their secret clubs), feminist issues (the medical examiner is a woman, and one episode was about how abortion was a crime back then), eugenics, racism etc. It's interesting how Murdoch while being progressive for his time, is also a devoted Catholic and the show lets that have consequences. (In one episode he's passed on an promotion because of anti-Papist prejudice. As for the abortion episode and his views in it, watch it/google it.) It also doesn't shy away from the consequences of the less-than-enlightened laws back then.

I think Modern Family has to be up there. They have a relatively realistic gay couple, who are genuinely likeable and good people (mostly...). They have "gay problems", "problems that arise because of being gay", and simply "problems".

edit: SMBC does it again.

[Arachu]

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

My nephew:

Spoiler

During the latter part of the Christmas holidays, I heard from my mother, who then had just had a call from my sister. She told mother that her - three year old - son wanted to try nail tint, as he had seen mother having it. My sister obliged him. Later when they were outside, my nephew asked for cotton gloves. "Why do you need those?" my sister asked. "I don't want others to get jealous at my painted nails."

Que in "aaaawwwwws" from my parents and I. I was surprised that my dad didn't have issues with it.

That's adorable.

Spoiler

Originally Posted by SiuiS

I just want to point out that to the best of my studying, you can't really target fat loss. A well endowed lady who does hundreds o sit-ups every day will also lose weight from her bust and thighs and gluteus and such, because the body pulls from everywhere to fuel itself.

Good point... That makes sense, considering that they have to metabolize before they can fuel anything...

That being said, more muscle mass tends to cause higher calorie burn, and specifically from the fat attached to that area/muscle. Crunches probably won't help you get rid of cutaneous belly fat specifically, but they will make your and burn more ab-fat specifically.

That also makes sense... I think extra muscle content can also make a body part look thinner from bracing the fat layer, but I don't know any big words to make that sound sciencey.

Similarly, exercises that strain the whole of the muscle unit, as well as the tendons, can actually be more beneficial. Because every fiber is engaged and you aren't just glutting the belly of the muscle, the overall output is much higher, with a smaller change in size otherwise. It also builds proprioception, which is a fancy term for coordination.

Plus, it makes the tendons work better for moving the body part in question and distributes the load (if the middle's the bulk, it would have to compress further to account for the rest of the muscle). I'd say equal distribution would be better in general, especially for developing curves (your legs would be strong and pretty ).

Really, no exercise is bad for you unless you go overboard. Such as marathon runners, some of whine actually end up with muscle cells turned inside out from training, or idiots like me who press a weak point to the point of cardiac distress.

I have a hard time not going overboard, with cardio - I've lost half as much weight as I need to, but I haven't done quite enough to make sure my heart adjusted right, so even though I do well on the elliptical exhaustion hits me like a sledgehammer as soon as I step off. I managed to go half an hour the other day and I'm still getting headaches.

[I always thought you weren't supposed to brush or comb your hair too vigorously while it was wet, as it would stretch and become prone to breakage. But I have insanely curly curls, so maybe only my hair reacts that way. *shrug*

Oh... Well, now I'm worried about that. Especially after I took that lock out of the back this morning (you can't tell (it was too low to leave a bald spot or anything), but it was freakin' scary). It might be strong enough... I don't comb it very vigorously when I do this, and it's really thick (it survives literally-constant twisting without getting damaged). I think I'm going to research it for a bit...

In all fairness, said lock wouldn't have gotten that knot in it if I hadn't scrubbed the shampoo in like I normally do and the comb itself just glides through the hair almost frictionlessly (it's always lubricated, either by conditioner or running water with conditioner mixed in it).


Also, thanks for mentioning so many things. I learned a lot, and now I have a basic idea of what I should actually be doing to lose more weight (without my legs and forearms looking weird, I mean).

Spoiler

I seem to have gained a degree of control over my voice... Sadly, it's only a degree.

To me, my voice is starting to sound like a fairly-high-pitched male voice, but after recording and listening to it on my phone... I sound like a normal male of my age. Stupid harmonics.

At least I made progress - a month ago my voice was locked into the 'deepest' setting, and it was low enough to sound indistinct at the volume I speak at. Now I just sound slightly annoyed.

It'll be neat if I can keep the old voice in reserve, though - when I finally gain access to reasonably-high octaves, I could drop to deep for the dramatic effect.

[Keveak]

Originally Posted by golentan

Edit: Ladies, gentlemen, and others... I am calling for a reverse boycott. A boycott of a boycott. And the awesome thing about this is that you get to eat lots of cookies.

Cookies! I want!

But I don't think I have ever seen girl scouts selling cookies, despite the apparent existence of both Danish and American ones in this very city.

I must solve this mystery!

*Dons deerstalker and magnifying glass and begins following the first footprints spotted*

[golentan]

Graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

I've had it creeping up on me for days now. The mood swings, the increasing libido, what have you. And all of a sudden, I realize it's my time of the month again and I desperately want a cute guy with infinite stamina right here RIGHT NOW!

This is getting out of hand. Apart from my current strategy (gay erotica and motorized implements of various sizes and shapes) does anyone have a suggestion for how to deal with this without risking venereal disease?

[Asta Kask]

Originally Posted by golentan

This is getting out of hand. Apart from my current strategy (gay erotica and motorized implements of various sizes and shapes) does anyone have a suggestion for how to deal with this without risking venereal disease?

Condoms spring to mind.

[Qaera]

Originally Posted by golentan

Graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

I've had it creeping up on me for days now. The mood swings, the increasing libido, what have you. And all of a sudden, I realize it's my time of the month again and I desperately want a cute guy with infinite stamina right here RIGHT NOW!

This is getting out of hand. Apart from my current strategy (gay erotica and motorized implements of various sizes and shapes) does anyone have a suggestion for how to deal with this without risking venereal disease?

I experience something similar, but my cycle's been out of whack recently so I don't know what to tell you. :s

~ ♅

[Knaight]

Originally Posted by Arachu

On another note, it's really easy to apply conditioner to long hair if you apply it with a comb. Incidentally, doing so is good for straightening hair (before I started, my hair would curl up just above my shoulders).

I do this as well. Shampoo on the other hand is a good way to get tangles that are going to be painful to remove.

On the reverse boycott - I am in, particularly as I had more than one close friend in the girl scouts anyways.

[KenderWizard]

Hair:

Spoiler

Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

I don't mind female body hair. Especially Including pubic hair. That just show you are mature, IMHO. I'm frankly annoyed at the sex enlightment/education association here, because they have started their own products for shaving genitals and pubic hair. IMO they should educate people to be more okay with body hair, not make them more influenced by the porn industry. Even if I did mind hair, I'd still think it would be up to the individual (woman or man).

I don't know what that means!

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Hair tangent:

Spoiler

Implying that anyone with a preference for little to no pubic hair has pedophilic tendencies is just plain uncalled for.

And I'm really stretching to find another angle for being outraged and calling it out as horrible infantilization.

I wouldn't go so far as "outraged". And, well, maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't personally know anyone who actually likes women to be 100% hairless. I'm not saying someone who does like little pubic hair has those tendencies. I'm just saying society, as a whole, pushes women to be hairless and pushes people who are attracted to women to like hairlessness or see it as the norm. And I think that's weird and a bit icky because it results in women removing evidence that they are mature adults. Everything about this is pretty complex, and I don't blame anyone, whether ciswoman or transwoman, or gynosexuals of any stripe, for buying into it, and I know I certainly buy into a lot of it. I'm just saying I think that removing a sign of adulthood and sexual maturity being seen, intentionally or not, as not only attractive and sexy but positively the norm, but only for one gender? That doesn't sit right with me.

I kind of feel sorry for the girl who wants to boycott the cookies. Apparently she's terrified that sneaky teenage boys are compromising her safety by pretending to want to be girls. Also, I bet she'd be pretty upset if GSUSA did demand "proof" that she was a girl.

[noparlpf]

Is it weird of me that I just imagined Steve Irwin sneaking through a rainforest saying something like, "Oh, look at that beauty. That's a rare Striped Gynosexual."

[Glass Mouse]

Hair:

Spoiler

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

I wouldn't go so far as "outraged". And, well, maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't personally know anyone who actually likes women to be 100% hairless. I'm not saying someone who does like little pubic hair has those tendencies. I'm just saying society, as a whole, pushes women to be hairless and pushes people who are attracted to women to like hairlessness or see it as the norm. And I think that's weird and a bit icky because it results in women removing evidence that they are mature adults. Everything about this is pretty complex, and I don't blame anyone, whether ciswoman or transwoman, or gynosexuals of any stripe, for buying into it, and I know I certainly buy into a lot of it. I'm just saying I think that removing a sign of adulthood and sexual maturity being seen, intentionally or not, as not only attractive and sexy but positively the norm, but only for one gender? That doesn't sit right with me.

An interesting perspective. But it's not just body hair, is it? Big eyes, small hips, baby smooth skin, and for Hollywood at least, rather small boobs.
I'm not sure if it's an anti-fat movement or the infantilization (we could call it "idealization of youth"), but I realized some day that the everyday women who most often resemble the beauty ideal in body type are around 14 years old. That's pretty messed up.
There's a long way to actual pedophilia, and the "youthful beauty" ideal is by no means a new one. But it's still a little weird.

Also, part of the reason I really don't understand the aversion to hair is because my boyfriend is pretty fuzzy, and I like that. It's fun to play with, and there's nothing icky about it. He's just my big teddy bear *
But then again, I don't go into an "ewwwww" frenzy if I find hair in my food, either (seriously, is it that much grosser than hands?). So maybe I'm just weird.


* Wait, "bear" may be a wrong word to use in this crowd... XD

[Reltzik]

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

...

I kind of feel sorry for the girl who wants to boycott the cookies. Apparently she's terrified that sneaky teenage boys are compromising her safety by pretending to want to be girls. Also, I bet she'd be pretty upset if GSUSA did demand "proof" that she was a girl.

... isn't all this about a 7-year-old? And yeah, my first thought on hearing the demand for proof of gender was, "What? Mandatory genital checks for all prospective girl scouts? Regardless of age?" Though in retrospect a needle-stick and a lab fee for a chromosone-check might be an alternative... still ridonkulous.



On an only-slightly-related note, today's my first day of the term running recitation (sort of like TAing a lab). Second term I've done it. First term that I knew I was supposed to email the class ahead of time to check for names that don't match the roster, so I don't out anyone who's trans. Oops. I've been trying to be an ally for years, but I'm still woefully ignorant of basic stuff. (It wasn't a problem, last term. Luckily. And now I know better, so it won't be a problem in the future.)

[Keveak]

Hair of hairness

Spoiler

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

I wouldn't go so far as "outraged". And, well, maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't personally know anyone who actually likes women to be 100% hairless. I'm not saying someone who does like little pubic hair has those tendencies. I'm just saying society, as a whole, pushes women to be hairless and pushes people who are attracted to women to like hairlessness or see it as the norm. And I think that's weird and a bit icky because it results in women removing evidence that they are mature adults. Everything about this is pretty complex, and I don't blame anyone, whether ciswoman or transwoman, or gynosexuals of any stripe, for buying into it, and I know I certainly buy into a lot of it. I'm just saying I think that removing a sign of adulthood and sexual maturity being seen, intentionally or not, as not only attractive and sexy but positively the norm, but only for one gender? That doesn't sit right with me.

I am not an expert at all, being a Kobold, but it might not be as odd if you look into human evolution.

I forgot the term, was busy being QueerKitty, but humans are among the animals who have evolved to keep traits that would otherwise only appear before maturity. In this case, less hair, the general facial structure and being silly. :3

Interestingly, cats and dogs have a similar thing going due to human preferences. Which mean that cats look adorable to manipulate you to get worshipped.

MWAHAHAHAHA!

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

I kind of feel sorry for the girl who wants to boycott the cookies. Apparently she's terrified that sneaky teenage boys are compromising her safety by pretending to want to be girls. Also, I bet she'd be pretty upset if GSUSA did demand "proof" that she was a girl.

I think she is associating the experience of finding people who understand you with groups limited to one gender and concluding that mixing them will ruin it.

Which sounds upside down to QueerKitty, ergo it is so. Meow. :3

Or I just ranted too much above to rant more, but don't tell Kenderwoman!

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

* Wait, "bear" may be a wrong word to use in this crowd... XD

I don't get it.

Originally Posted by Keveak

I am not an expert at all, being a Kobold, but it might not be as odd if you look into human evolution.

I forgot the term, was busy being QueerKitty, but humans are among the animals who have evolved to keep traits that would otherwise only appear before maturity. In this case, less hair, the general facial structure and being silly. :3

Interestingly, cats and dogs have a similar thing going due to human preferences. Which mean that cats look adorable to manipulate you to get worshipped.

MWAHAHAHAHA!

I think the word is neoteny. Like those salamanders that keep their gills into adulthood (but which can, I believe, in some conditions, develop into adults without keeping their external gills (ew bad commas)). There was some story by someone about how if humans lived longer they'd eventually "mature" into apes. Huxley, maybe? I also feel like this has come up in these threads before a few iterations back.

[Kindablue]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

I don't get it.

Neither do I.

[Reluctance]

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Keveak

I forgot the term, was busy being QueerKitty, but humans are among the animals who have evolved to keep traits that would otherwise only appear before maturity. In this case, less hair, the general facial structure and being silly. :3

Interestingly, cats and dogs have a similar thing going due to human preferences. Which mean that cats look adorable to manipulate you to get worshipped.

Neotony.

A couple more points on the topic.

I think she is associating the experience of finding people who understand you with groups limited to one gender and concluding that mixing them will ruin it.

Which sounds upside down to QueerKitty, ergo it is so. Meow. :3

Taking the pro-trans position to the extreme, anybody can claim any gender they like, at any time, and have to be taken at face value for that. Given that the "gender is an artificial social construct" crowd is 100% full of post-consumer waste, it would work with real humans as (radical fringe political position of choice).

I'm going to be optimistic about human nature here, and assume that it's 95% baseless paranoia and 5% cynical fearmongering. There's a world of difference between one Y chromosome haver who claims "I feel like a girl now" to get into the girls' shower, and another has been living as a girl since the beginning of the year. It's slippery slope nonsense at its unreasonable best.

[Musashi]

Unrelated to all current topics:
Boyfriend's arrived at the hospital today for his mammectomy+hysterectomy tomorrow. He didn't want me - or anyone else - visiting him (he thinks he'll be cranky and a lot more asocial than usual, which I can't blame him for). I'd have liked to see him after the surgery, but well. He's also likely to be too tired/drugged to give me reassuring news right away.
Can't wait to see the results.

[Asta Kask]

Clearly the solution to everything is to binge on Girlscout cookies.

[Reluctance]

Musashi: Leave flowers, a card, a book, and/or snacks. (GSCs would be a lovely touch.) He's going to be grouchy and dazed from the whole ordeal, but hospitals are also lonely. A little something to brighten up the place when he wakes up would be very handy.

Otherwise, I hope you're on good terms with his family. (This being a subset of "I hope he's on good terms with his family".) It's ridiculous for him to have to support you through this, but it is stressful for you and everyone else close to him. That's when his extended support group annoys the snot out of each other to leave a zero-pressure ring around him.