Class'ina Can 3.5

[Cipherthe3vil]

Fighter'ina Can

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special
1st	+1	+2	+2	+0	I'ma FIGHTER @#$%!

Class Features:

I'ma FIGHTER @#$%! (Ex):
The Fighter'ina Can gains this feature. It can select from the following styles:

Archer:

Spoiler

Hd: d6

Skills:
Concentration, Hide, Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival.
6 Skill points

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter can gain any feat that requires Point Blank Shot so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Brawler:

Spoiler

Hd: d12

Skills:
Balance, Bluff, Escape Artist, Jump, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble
6 Skill points

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter can gain any feat that requires Improved Unarmed Strike so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Chopper:

Spoiler

Hd: d10

Skills:
Climb, Intimidate, Jump, and Swim
4 Skill Points

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter gains any feat that requires Power Attack so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Dicer:

Spoiler

Hd: d8

Skills:
Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, and Tumble

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter gains any feat that requires Two Weapon Fighting so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Slicer:

Spoiler

Hd: d8

Skills:
Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, and Tumble

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter gains any feat that requires Combat Expertise so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Skirmisher:

Spoiler

Hd: d8

Skills:
Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, and Tumble

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter gains any feat that requires Dodge so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

Mountie:

Spoiler

hd: d8

Skills:
Appraise, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Any two), Listen, Rise, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival
6 Skill points

Path:
Now and every four levels hereafter, the Fighter gains any feat that requires Mounted Combat so long as the Fighter meets the prerequisites.

I'ma FIGHTER @#$%! can only be taken once on any single character.

Note: anything not listed should be assumed to be the same as listed in The Fighter

[NeoSeraphi]

Pretty good. Straightforward. I would suggest adding the following styles:

Skirmisher: Any feat based on Dodge

Dicer: (Put below Slicer) Any feat based on Two-Weapon Fighting

Marshal: Any feat based on Combat Focus.

The picture is perfect, and the class feature is easy to understand and works well. You even get good Reflex saves.

Are Weapon and Armor Proficiencies same as standard fighter?

[Cipherthe3vil]

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Pretty good. Straightforward. I would suggest adding the following styles:

Skirmisher: Any feat based on Dodge

Dicer: (Put below Slicer) Any feat based on Two-Weapon Fighting

Marshal: Any feat based on Combat Focus.

The picture is perfect, and the class feature is easy to understand and works well. You even get good Reflex saves.

Are Weapon and Armor Proficiencies same as standard fighter?

I was just going to add those in a bit, except the Combat Focus. I was just doing chain-feats from Core.

I forgot about Proficiencies. I thought about them, but guess I forgot to add them before I Submitted it.

[Okizruin]

So you're trying to create classes literally designed for dipping. Is that correct?

[Zeta Kai]

Every 4 levels? But a standard fighter gains a new feat every other level, in addition to the normal feat progression of 1 per every 3 levels. Even if these are free bonus feats gained on top of all of that, it's gonna take a long time to gain all of the possible feats with this. Even if an archer took this at 1st level (is that legal? not without skill points, starting gold, etc.), they couldn't use this to gain all of the archery-based feats by 20th level, & they'd be far behind a fighter who just took them as soon as possible. With this system, the temptation to use your normal feats (IE those gained by levels & fighter "class features") for other things would be great, so you'd actually have a build that was far less like what you chose in the first place than a standard fighter of equal level. That's bad design.

[NeoSeraphi]

Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil

I was just going to add those in a bit, except the Combat Focus. I was just doing chain-feats from Core.

Okay. Well, if you're just doing Core feats, you've got them all with those two chains, so good work.

[Cipherthe3vil]

Originally Posted by Okizruin

So you're trying to create classes literally designed for dipping. Is that correct?

Clearly, as you can't continue with multiple levels even if you wanted to.

Originally Posted by Zeta Kai

Every 4 levels? But a standard fighter gains a new feat every other level, in addition to the normal feat progression of 1 per every 3 levels. Even if these are free bonus feats gained on top of all of that, it's gonna take a long time to gain all of the possible feats with this. Even if an archer took this at 1st level (is that legal? not without skill points, starting gold, etc.), they couldn't use this to gain all of the archery-based feats by 20th level, & they'd be far behind a fighter who just took them as soon as possible. With this system, the temptation to use your normal feats (IE those gained by levels & fighter "class features") for other things would be great, so you'd actually have a build that was far less like what you chose in the first place than a standard fighter of equal level. That's bad design.

Your way over thinking this.

This a single level. Unlike a Fighter, you could take this and go play something else for further bonus feats or class features.

Here's a NORMAL fighter + Fighter in a Can:

Level	Class	FBF	FCP
1	Fighter'ina Can		+1
2	Fighter	+1
3	Fighter	+1
4	Fighter		+1
5	Fighter	+1
6	Fighter
7	Fighter	+1
8	Fighter		+1
9	Fighter	+1
10	Fighter
11	Fighter	+1
12	Fighter		+1
13	Fighter	+1
14	Fighter
15	Fighter	+1
16	Fighter		+1
17	Fighter	+1
18	Fighter
19	Fighter	+1
20	Fighter		+1

FBF: Fighter bonus Feats
FCP: Fighter'ina Can Path

[NeoSeraphi]

How do you get a Fighter Bonus feat at 1st level when you're not a fighter?

Edit: By the way, I think this would work much better as a template that could be applied to a race, rather than as a single-level class. Just a suggestion.

[Zeta Kai]

Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil

Your way over thinking this.

And if you want anyone to actually use this homebrew, & not point to it as an example of why nobody should be allowed to use homebrew, then you are under-thinking this. You wrote it, now you have to back it up or fix it. I'm just pointing out a glaring flaw.

Here's a build for a bog-standard fighter, aiming to be an archer. He's human, with no flaws, no real optimization, & only using Core material:

Level	Feats
1	Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
2	Far Shot
3	Dodge
4	Mobility
5
6	Manyshot, Shot on the Run
7
8	Improved Critical
9	Combat Reflexes
10	Improved Initiative
11	Improved Precise Shot
12	Quick Draw, Weapon Focus
13
14	Weapon Specialization
15	Greater Weapon Focus
16	Greater Weapon Specialization
17
18	Skill Focus, Stealthy
19
20	Lightning Reflexes

Did you notice how, with the exception of Improved Precise Shot, I ran out of archery-related feats at 6th level, & had to take things that were only tangentially related to being a better archer? Did you see that? Well, take a look at a fighter with all of the same parameters, except using your FIAC at first level:

Level	Feats	FIAC
1	Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot	Rapid Shot
2	Dodge
3	Improved Initiative, Mobility
4
5	Combat Reflexes	Far Shot
6	Weapon Focus
7	Weapon Specialization
8
9	Improved Critical, Greater Weapon Focus	Manyshot
10
11	Quick Draw
12	Greater Weapon Specialization
13	Skill Focus	Shot on the Run
14
15	Lightning Reflexes, Stealthy
16
17	Rapid Reload	Improved Precise Shot
18	Spring Attack
19	Iron Will
20

Notice how I didn't get most of my archery-related feat until way later? Why did I wait? Because if I didn't wait, then my FIAC class feature would've been wasted, & I'd get no feats from it later. So I ended up with a diluted build full of feats that are largely unrelated to what I set out to do. I took your dip class to become an archer, & I ended up being less of an archer because of it.

And it works the same way with any other combat style offered by your class (archery was merely chosen because it was first, & it has the most related feats in Core). The FIAC does offer 3 feats for a single-level dip (well, it actually offers 4, but I get the last one at 17th level, & taking this class dip costs a fighter his 20th-level bonus feat), but I have to take the build-related feats far later than I would normally otherwise, which goes against all logic. Outside of Core, I could possibly do better, but most related feats have higher prerequisites, so I'd have to wait to take those anyway.

No matter what, I'm missing out by taking your dip class. And you never gave it skills or starting gold, so I'd have to fudge that myself to even get this far. I may be over-thinking it, but the alternative is obviously bad homebrew, so I'll take that label.