Glare of the Crimson Sun OOC:

[Ravian]

Welcome everyone to the OOC thread!

I will be making the IC thread soon, in the mean time feel free to select posting colors, introduce yourself, ask questions, ect.

Character	Player	Class	Role	Race	Posting Color
Araz	Ascy	Artificer	Leader	Half-elemental	Blue
Karak Grint	Grey Wolf	Warden	Defender	Golem	Indigo
Traaver	Conundrum	Invoker	Controller	Half-Elf	Red
Hastur	TheKoalaNxtDoor	Rogue	Striker	Human	Orange

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Karak will speak a deep bass Indigo, I think. His IC title will be:

Karak Grint, Discarded Golem

I'll take a look at the other sheets, see if anything jumps at me to create pre-game connections. Feel free to do the same with Karak, of course.

@Ravian: Karak will be starting in the slums of the city. I'm guessing that's acceptable? Or is there somewhere else we need to be? I'm at a bit of a loss without the initial plot hook.

Grey Wolf

[Emongnome777]

Checking in and speaking in White! Just kidding, it'll be Sienna.

I'll also need to catch up on the backstories of everyone else, which I'll do this weekend (can't access MW at work).

Anyone want to merge histories? Elebon was shunned from his elven clan for "not being an elf like them", so he's sympathetic to those that suffer the same situations.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

I'll also need to catch up on the backstories of everyone else, which I'll do this weekend (can't access MW at work).

I can PM you all the backgrounds, if that'll help.

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

Anyone want to merge histories? Elebon was shunned from his elven clan for "not being an elf like them", so he's sympathetic to those that suffer the same situations.

Karak requires to have been mostly alone in his wanderings in the desert, so any backstory linking would start around the time he was attacked by bandits close(ish) to the city. Or, of course, having already met some of you in the slums.

Grey Wolf

[Emongnome777]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

I can PM you all the backgrounds, if that'll help.

My weekend starts tonight (I get every other Friday off), so I can read them in a few hours from now. I do appreciate the offer, though.

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

Karak requires to have been mostly alone in his wanderings in the desert, so any backstory linking would start around the time he was attacked by bandits close(ish) to the city. Or, of course, having already met some of you in the slums.

Meeting in the slums would probably work. Elebon is new to Balic and has only known life in an elven clan and on a silt skimmer, so he would have trouble adapting to city life, leading to time spend in the slums of the city.

I'm game for meeting him when he was attacked by bandits as well if it fits.

[Ascy]

Araz will be using blue.
He'll probably hang out in the slummier parts of the city, selling stuff.
He's wearing very concealing clothes and a dust mask, hiding his face and race as best as possible.

Maybe he is in the middle of making a deal with one or more of the other characters?

Edit: Wow, i suck at avatar-making :D

[Ravian]

The Campaign begins in a slum near the gates of Balic, when a silt wind (a duststorm carrying silt from the Sea of Silt) has just started blowing.

Silt Winds are uncommon but dangerous, since anyone caught outside without a filter mask could contract the Grey Death, also they are generally uncomfortable to be out in regardlessly. Luckily most houses and establishments near the Sea are equipped with blinds to prevent the silt from getting in.

[The Underlord]

Grey death you say? Can't figure out where that idea came from . nah, I'm kidding, I don't care what you call it. Anyway, Cha'Ka will be speaking in dark green

[TheKoalaNxtDoor]

Cool beans. Hastur'll post in, well, Orange.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

My weekend starts tonight (I get every other Friday off), so I can read them in a few hours from now. I do appreciate the offer, though.



Meeting in the slums would probably work. Elebon is new to Balic and has only known life in an elven clan and on a silt skimmer, so he would have trouble adapting to city life, leading to time spend in the slums of the city.

I'm game for meeting him when he was attacked by bandits as well if it fits.

Not sure if you have had time to look through the backgrounds; having done so myself, I have to say I cannot think of a plausible non-clichèd scenario for Karak and Elebon to have met pre-city.

In city it might be slightly easier, although again I can't see a reason they'd cross paths and talk. On the other hand, I can see Karak having to interact with Araz. Karak doesn't eat, but he still needs certain supplies to survive, so it could go something like this:

"I hear you are a man that can get things. I need some clay"
"Clay? Do you have any idea how rare that is?"
"It is just common porous phyllosilicate minerals containing variable amounts of water."
"Exactly! This world is a desert! Anything containing water is dug up and dried out. Look, I can get you the stuff, but it'll be dry. You'll need to buy the water on the side."
"I can do that, thank you. Can you also get me some mercury?"
"Mercury? The liquid metal? Why on Athas would you want that?"
"It's good for the stomach, I hear"
"Good for the stomach? It's poisonous! Oh for the love of... Whatever. Yes, I can get you some. But if the Watch catches you with it, you never got it from me. It'll be..."

Or similar, as appropriate for Araz's personality (I like the idea of nonplussed salesman, but I have watched Shawshank Redemption way too many times).

Grey Wolf

[Ravian]

IC thread is up everyone! Let's get this show on the road

[Ravian]

Quick note to everyone that the battles will be done through Google Docs. If you don't have a GMail account I recommend it in the strongest possible terms. Will be posting the link as soon as we get to our first encounter.

Just wanted to give everyone fair warning.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Good to hear. Battles through google docs tend to be easier, and the chat comes in very handy. Since you brought up the topic of battles, what rules are you going to use? In particular I'm thinking turn-order and rolling initiative, since each DM tends to have his own preference in those areas.

Btw, I might as well mention that Karak is still standing in a corner keeping an eye on the floor and listening to all that is going on. He is not going to actively approach the traders, but have already PM'ed Ascy to have Araz represent the both of us.

Grey Wolf

[Ravian]

Individual initiative rolls, as in just as if we were playing it at a table.
Also in terms of opportunity powers (especially since Battleminds have alot of them) I would prefer that you would ready such actions, (tell me you are going to use them if you get the opportunity) this would include making an attack roll for it, though a regular opportunity attack would probably be handled by me in the monster who provokes it's post

[Emongnome777]

Originally Posted by Ravian

Individual initiative rolls, as in just as if we were playing it at a table.
Also in terms of opportunity powers (especially since Battleminds have alot of them) I would prefer that you would ready such actions, (tell me you are going to use them if you get the opportunity) this would include making an attack roll for it, though a regular opportunity attack would probably be handled by me in the monster who provokes it's post

I'll try to remember to specify that each round. He also has a power that kicks in at the start of an enemy's first round (Wild Focus). When combat starts, I'll try to post that as soon as possible.

Request: Any chance I can get melee training for free? A defender without an MBA can be moved away from too easily. Failing that, can I take the pre-errata version of MT? Both of these would be perfect, but I'll take what I can get.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

I'll try to remember to specify that each round. He also has a power that kicks in at the start of an enemy's first round (Wild Focus). When combat starts, I'll try to post that as soon as possible.

Karak's defender powers are fairly straightforward. When a marked enemy doesn't include him in an attack, two things may happen:
1) If he is next to Karak, Karak makes an Immediate Interrupt attack vs Fortitude (Warden's Fury). If hit, it does 1d10+4 damage and the target grants CA to me and all my allies until the end of my next turn. Karak will take every single one of these. As much as I'd like to roll those attacks, I'm fine with Ravian doing it in his post (if the enemy is killed, his attack is of course negated, since it happens before he attacks)
2) If he is not next to Karak, but within 5 squares, Karak automatically (no roll) slides him 1 square after the attack (Immediate Reaction), slows him, and he cannot shift until the end of his next turn. (Warden's Grasp). This one I can't see easily happening without my intervention, since it requires me moving the target. On the other hand, not being an interrupt, it is probably not too big a deal for Ravian to finish his post, and me coming in and saying where the target is moved to (the target is unlikely to move much after it happens, since he is now slowed, can't shift, and is likely next to several enemies).

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

Request: Any chance I can get melee training for free? A defender without an MBA can be moved away from too easily. Failing that, can I take the pre-errata version of MT? Both of these would be perfect, but I'll take what I can get.

You could switch the flail proficiency for it. Otherwise, what you are asking is functionally identical to giving the proficiency feat for free, which Ravian already declined to do.

Grey Wolf

[Emongnome777]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

You could switch the flail proficiency for it. Otherwise, what you are asking is functionally identical to giving the proficiency feat for free, which Ravian already declined to do.

That post refers to "feat tax" expertise feats. I'm referring to Melee Training, which switches your MBA from strength-based to another ability (Con, in my case) (and I don't consider MT to be a feat-tax for non-strength defenders). It's no big deal; I was probably going to take MT for my second level feat anyways. I always hated the errata nerf, but oh well. OAs may not happen too much anyways. That or just swap Knack for Success for an at-will that can be used as an MBA, but that'll take more feats to really pull off well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

That post refers to "feat tax" expertise feats. I'm referring to Melee Training, which switches your MBA from strength-based to another ability (Con, in my case) (and I don't consider MT to be a feat-tax for non-strength defenders). It's no big deal; I was probably going to take MT for my second level feat anyways. I always hated the errata nerf, but oh well. OAs may not happen too much anyways. That or just swap Knack for Success for an at-will that can be used as an MBA, but that'll take more feats to really pull off well.

My point was that if you get MT for free, it is functionally equivalent to getting expertise for free because you end up having two feats at 1st level, one of which is the expertise feat. Yes, the one you get for free is the other one, but at the end of the day, had we got the expertise feat for free instead, it would have achieved the same result.

I feel your pain, I agree that you are going to need the MT, but for now, we can probably manage without it if we must: Mind Spike is impressive enough on its own that few enemies are going to want to risk it. Besides, as someone that plays humans for the extra feat, I have to admit that getting any of the "tax feats" for free is a bit of a kick in the nuts to humans, whose only major advantage is precisely that extra feat for the advantage it brings.

Edit: Do you know if two defenders can mark the same target, or do marks overwrite each other? I'm thinking the second one, if nothing else because a 5-defender party could conceivably give -10 to hit, but I can't think where to look up the marked rules.

Grey Wolf

[Emongnome777]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

My point was that if you get MT for free, it is functionally equivalent to getting expertise for free because you end up having two feats at 1st level, one of which is the expertise feat. Yes, the one you get for free is the other one, but at the end of the day, had we got the expertise feat for free instead, it would have achieved the same result.

I feel your pain, I agree that you are going to need the MT, but for now, we can probably manage without it if we must: Mind Spike is impressive enough on its own that few enemies are going to want to risk it. Besides, as someone that plays humans for the extra feat, I have to admit that getting any of the "tax feats" for free is a bit of a kick in the nuts to humans, whose only major advantage is precisely that extra feat for the advantage it brings.

Edit: Do you know if two defenders can mark the same target, or do marks overwrite each other? I'm thinking the second one, if nothing else because a 5-defender party could conceivably give -10 to hit, but I can't think where to look up the marked rules.

Grey Wolf

MT will only come into play if the marked enemy moves away from him instead of shifts, so it isn't game changing one way or the other. It's just nice to have a solid MBA to cover your bases. At this point, I'd be thrilled to get the pre-nerf MT, but either way, I'm taking it at 2nd. Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask (unless I get a hand injury from all the extra typin... ouch! ).

Regarding the marks, I don't have access to the rules at work, but I'm 99% sure that only one mark can be active on an enemy at one time (essentially the last mark placed). I don't mind you over-marking if you have a plan. Battlemind marks work for the whole encounter, unless I choose to mark another enemy. This will be interesting learning how to work together to get the most mileage out of having 2 defenders. I've never played a battlemind, either, so please be patient.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

MT will only come into play if the marked enemy moves away from him instead of shifts, so it isn't game changing one way or the other. It's just nice to have a solid MBA to cover your bases. At this point, I'd be thrilled to get the pre-nerf MT, but either way, I'm taking it at 2nd. Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask

The biggest advantage of having a warden in the party is that a lot of enemies are going to be loosing their shifting abilities. If I do my job correctly, I should be the stickiest of all defenders (through powers, not through class abilities), so hopefully, MBAs will not be too needed.

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

(unless I get a hand injury from all the extra typin... ouch! ).

Yeah, you know me. I'll happily discuss the difference between two water droplets till the cows come home. What can I say, I like posting.

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

Regarding the marks, I don't have access to the rules at work, but I'm 99% sure that only one mark can be active on an enemy at one time (essentially the last mark placed). I don't mind you over-marking if you have a plan. Battlemind marks work for the whole encounter, unless I choose to mark another enemy. This will be interesting learning how to work together to get the most mileage out of having 2 defenders. I've never played a battlemind, either, so please be patient.

Well, I see that you can mark at a distance (although needing a minor action may come back to haunt you - I know it does in my Paladin). Karak will be marking everything around him for free every turn, so it'll be my responsibility not to overwrite by carefully moving around your mark. Still, with two defenders the party is likely going to be low on damage per attack - we do have a rogue and he'll have plenty of chances for CA, but still, he'll be only one. So making sure enemies are locked down and missing their attacks is going to be very important. We'll know better how we work once we have our first fight - a lot of my ideas are mostly theoretical at this point. Our biggest liability is low* defence scores, so our leader is going to have to do a lot of healing no matter what, and that worries me, since there is only one of him.

Grey Wolf

*low by "best of defenders" standard, I mean. Paladins we ain't. I miss my "high 20s" AC already.

[Ravian]

Originally Posted by Emongnome777

MT will only come into play if the marked enemy moves away from him instead of shifts, so it isn't game changing one way or the other. It's just nice to have a solid MBA to cover your bases. At this point, I'd be thrilled to get the pre-nerf MT, but either way, I'm taking it at 2nd. Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask (unless I get a hand injury from all the extra typin... ouch! ).

I'm unfamiliar with the Melee training nerf, I simply use it as described in the PHB2, how has it changed?

[Emongnome777]

Originally Posted by Ravian

I'm unfamiliar with the Melee training nerf, I simply use it as described in the PHB2, how has it changed?

Full mod on attacks, but only half-mod on damage. Will you allow it pre-nerf?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Ravian

I'm unfamiliar with the Melee training nerf, I simply use it as described in the PHB2, how has it changed?

Damage was dropped to only half of your preferred modifier. So you are as accurate, but not as damaging, as if you had that score in strength.

Grey Wolf

[Ravian]

I have no problem with pre nerf, especially since it only applies to basic attacks, so you can go ahead and take it next level.

[Ascy]

Oh boy, this is going to be a fun discussion once we get out of the tavern..

[Ravian]

Just a little heads up:
Hejkin aren't natural creatures so dungeoneering, rather then nature is the knowledge skill to use

[Emongnome777]

Dungeoneering to identify Hejkin: (1d20+1)[21]

Edit: Eep! I'll take it. Elebon may have heard about them (and dealt with them) in the Estuary, where he grew up. DM's call.

[Ravian]

Elabon remembers one time that the silt skimmer he traveled on included a dwarf who's mine was destroyed by Hejkin, he went into great detail about them

They are small deformed creatures, a little less than 4 ft tall, with peaked heads, and clawed hands and feet.
They possess a natural psionic ability to phase through stone and earth, allowing them to move through the ground with little or no trace.
They are considered quite mad, gibbering in high pitched dwarven, and often engaging in sacrificial rites.
They make their homes in natural caverns and despise worked stone, the only marks they make upon their burrows are strange runes often charged with energy.
They revere twisted primal spirits, though some fall into Abberant worship.
They are primarily nocturnal and have a strange affinity to Astronomical events, which will often times drive a Hejkin tribe into a frenzy.
They love treasure and often associate with burrowing insects, such as Ankegs, Kruthiks, and Giant Ants.

Also they look like this:

Spoiler

He was a very descriptive Dwarf...

[The Underlord]

Can I do a Nature check on the comet itself?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm OK with moving on.

GW