World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

[Karoht]

Won a Guardian Cub this morning for 2k bid.
Achievement-150 pets.
Both the Guardian Cub and the Celestial Dragon are equally awesome. Just saying.

[GolemsVoice]

Karoht, what exactly does the Hunter do to trivialize Hagara so much?

[Karoht]

Aspect of the Pack. You can pretty much just dispell the debuff whenever you want, rather than just in the sphere, but we still take it to the sphere. There's no damage except for falling ice, so no one should get slowed due to damage. It doesn't really help with lightning phase much, but faster movement is pretty beneficial there too. Normal Phase, turn off Aspect.

H Yorsahj and H Hagara we plan on downing next week. H Zonozz the week after, with some attempts on H Blackhorn if we're lucky.

If you want to practice for H Yorsahj, do normal Yorsahj but don't kill slimes. It's pretty much the same fight, and will present you with the same sets of problems.

[GolemsVoice]

Ah, thanks. We did H Yor'sahj today, man, tough fight.

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

Ah, thanks. We did H Yor'sahj today, man, tough fight.

Attempted or killed it?
Yeah, it's a bit rough. It's all about reacting. If purple is ever up, you want any damage reduction cooldowns you can get, especially raid wide ones.

[Expf]

Grats on H Ultraxion, Karoht. The "skittles boss" is probably a more fun boss to work on than Hagara. Good luck on getting your next kill. :)

Originally Posted by Karoht

If you want to practice for H Yorsahj, do normal Yorsahj but don't kill slimes. It's pretty much the same fight, and will present you with the same sets of problems.

One noticeable difference: on heroic he summons oozes more frequently, which means the phase where he actually does stuff is shorter. This means that on heroic more mechanics are involved, but over a shorter period of time.

Originally Posted by Bunny of Faith

You went for Heroic Ultraxion before Hagara or Yorsahj? This seems kind of odd, although my guild has some fairly awful dps so that won't be happening anytime soon.

It's pretty weird, but in 10H: Ultraxion =< Yor'sahj < Hagara, difficulty-wise (chart). It is rare for guilds to kill them in this order mainly because you're sorta stuck with nothing else to work on for the rest of the week. However, don't think that you lack the DPS just yet, since his DPS requirements are pretty lenient.

[Bunny of Faith]

Originally Posted by Expf

It's pretty weird, but in 10H: Ultraxion =< Yor'sahj < Hagara, difficulty-wise (chart). It is rare for guilds to kill them in this order mainly because you're sorta stuck with nothing else to work on for the rest of the week. However, don't think that you lack the DPS just yet, since his DPS requirements are pretty lenient.

I don't frequent this thread enough to know that Karoht does 10H, so wasn't sure which he did - I do 25H, and am currently sighing as my guild bangs it's head against the wall on Heroic Yor'sahj.

[GolemsVoice]

Attempted or killed it?
Yeah, it's a bit rough. It's all about reacting. If purple is ever up, you want any damage reduction cooldowns you can get, especially raid wide ones.

Killed it. Actually, we killed it about a week ago, but today was my first kill. And considering I failed horribly the last times we tried, it gave me a massive ego boost.

EDIT: I am also absolutely sure there's a Blizzard employee who just works on proccing Surge of Light for me. Desperately clicking Flash Heal? Lolno, SoL never comes. Purple up and I can't heal much. SoL everywhere. Healing after the fight? CHAIN SoLs, up to FIVE!

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by Bunny of Faith

You went for Heroic Ultraxion before Hagara or Yorsahj? This seems kind of odd, although my guild has some fairly awful dps so that won't be happening anytime soon.

We have very solid DPS, but our cooldown options for Yorsahj aren't very good, and we're very melee heavy for Hagara which makes Ice Phase very very long.

For the record, even with the nerf H Ultraxion requires you to have 36k as an average DPS for all your DPS, this assumes that you 2 heal it and have 6 DPS. This is factoring in 2 tanks doing 16K each or higher.
I want to note that if we had our regular tank on, our other DPS would not have been tanking on his poorly geared alt. So we could have replaced the Warlock only pulling 26K with a DK pulling 36K+ and that also would have given us another cooldown person to use for soaking Hour of Twilight. And the regular tank pulls 20K easy. I'm pretty confident the only reason we downed it was the fact that yes, it was nerfed, and we have two people pulling over 40k right now.


As for our progression, we've been working on (Heroic) Zonozz, Yorsahj, and Hagara for a while now, as well as Ultraxion. Who we work on has more been a product of attendance as we have a tank who is starting to flake on us, and we have 3 DPS who are flaking on us randomly.
In fact, if ever I'm talking about bosses, just assume I'm talking about heroic unless I'm talking about Spine or Madness.

Oh, speaking of that, got the achievement on Spine for rolling Deathwing around. It is a very very easy achievement.

[Expf]

Originally Posted by Bunny of Faith

I don't frequent this thread enough to know that Karoht does 10H, so wasn't sure which he did - I do 25H, and am currently sighing as my guild bangs it's head against the wall on Heroic Yor'sahj.

Some people opt to try Hagara (25H) before Yor'sahj since it's mostly just execution.

Originally Posted by Karoht

We have very solid DPS, but our cooldown options for Yorsahj aren't very good, and we're very melee heavy for Hagara which makes Ice Phase very very long.

Now that you mention your cooldown options, what's your healing composition like?

Originally Posted by Karoht

For the record, even with the nerf H Ultraxion requires you to have 36k as an average DPS for all your DPS, this assumes that you 2 heal it and have 6 DPS. This is factoring in 2 tanks doing 16K each or higher.

It seems that ~36k/player (250k raid) is the typical DPS that most groups kill Ultraxion with, though there are some rare parses with raid DPS as low as 230k (~33k/player). I would hate to do it with the bare minimum though, as the last minute of the fight is really shaky to heal.

Originally Posted by Karoht

Who we work on has more been a product of attendance as we have a tank who is starting to flake on us, and we have 3 DPS who are flaking on us randomly.

That is quite a frustrating thing to experience, and I think I know it too well. :/

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by Expf

Some people opt to try Hagara (25H) before Yor'sahj since it's mostly just execution.

It is. But if you're melee heavy the Ice Phase just takes for freaking ever to down, if you don't have a Hunter. Everyone seems to have Hunters, we don't have one.

Now that you mention your cooldown options, what's your healing composition like?

Me (Resto Druid) and a Holy Paladin. We have a Resto Shaman as well, but for most fights we two heal it, and the Shaman goes Enhancement. The Holy Paladin doesn't have a DPS spec and refuses to try, I also refuse to do so this late in the expansion (and the fact that I suck as a DPS). So for healing CD's we have my Treeform and Tranquility, we have Spirit Link if we're 3 healing it.
For Yorsahj, to get around Purple we've been having our Warlocks move their pets to the center and everyone stack, I Swiftmend the pet and everyone gets Efflorescence. It helps and doesn't build up stacks. This is when we can stack mind you. Usually on a Purple Red Black Combo. But things like Pally Divine Protection (2 pally's worth) and the tank's raidwide (4pc) Divine Guardian are very effective for that. It's the 'brutal damage' combo's where we fall down because all we really have is my Tranquility and Tree. I keep telling our Paladin to use Aura Mastery, I don't actually know if it is being used or not.

It seems that ~36k/player (250k raid) is the typical DPS that most groups kill Ultraxion with, though there are some rare parses with raid DPS as low as 230k (~33k/player). I would hate to do it with the bare minimum though, as the last minute of the fight is really shaky to heal.

That parse is what gave us hope for quite a while. Again, we went with our B rollout instead of our A Team and we just got it. Would have had it on the second attempt the other night, had we been able to go with our A team choices instead.

[Expf]

Anybody got a chance to mess around with the Ret pally bug before they fixed it? I wish I were on to see the ridiculous numbers. :P

Originally Posted by Karoht

Me (Resto Druid) and a Holy Paladin. We have a Resto Shaman as well, but for most fights we two heal it, and the Shaman goes Enhancement. The Holy Paladin doesn't have a DPS spec and refuses to try, I also refuse to do so this late in the expansion (and the fact that I suck as a DPS). So for healing CD's we have my Treeform and Tranquility, we have Spirit Link if we're 3 healing it.
For Yorsahj, to get around Purple we've been having our Warlocks move their pets to the center and everyone stack, I Swiftmend the pet and everyone gets Efflorescence. It helps and doesn't build up stacks. This is when we can stack mind you. Usually on a Purple Red Black Combo. But things like Pally Divine Protection (2 pally's worth) and the tank's raidwide (4pc) Divine Guardian are very effective for that. It's the 'brutal damage' combo's where we fall down because all we really have is my Tranquility and Tree. I keep telling our Paladin to use Aura Mastery, I don't actually know if it is being used or not.

That's pretty similar to our comp (I'm a druid too), except we have a priest instead of a shaman. DK tanks are pretty good for this if you happen to have one but it is by no means a necessity.

That's a really clever trick there with the pet-Swiftmend idea by the way! Never would've thought of it. For Purple we assigned a group for each healer and call out if we plan to cross-heal and warn if someone is about to blow up. Abusing paladin Beacon and WoG to heal the tank means that the tank rarely blows up. I typically restrict myself to using Rejuv/HT/Swiftmend since they will heal for the most while causing as few stacks as possible; LB is helpful to keep up but not mandatory if your tank is covered. For Black we use a combination of initial tank aggro, Army of the Dead, and BoP to keep the adds off the healers and casters.

The heaviest damage combo is Red/Green/Yellow/Black (I assume that's what you meant?) and generally that's the best time for using BL/Hero and major raid CDs. Generally I will use a Tranq near the beginning and then use a damage reduction CDs after Tranq fades. I refrain from using ToL in order to save it for a possible 2nd RGYK combo later on.

Which ooze colors do you prioritize on killing? Ours is generally Yellow > Green but there are exceptions, e.g. kill Green during RGYK.

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by Expf

The heaviest damage combo is Red/Green/Yellow/Black (I assume that's what you meant?) and generally that's the best time for using BL/Hero and major raid CDs. Generally I will use a Tranq near the beginning and then use a damage reduction CDs after Tranq fades. I refrain from using ToL in order to save it for a possible 2nd RGYK combo later on.

Which ooze colors do you prioritize on killing? Ours is generally Yellow > Green but there are exceptions e.g. kill Green during RGYK.

We're prioritizing Yellow > Green depending on the combo. I think there is one combo where we kill black because it's easy to heal through and we would rather have the DPS uptime on the boss instead of killing mobs we don't need to kill.

[Expf]

Originally Posted by Karoht

We're prioritizing Yellow > Green depending on the combo. I think there is one combo where we kill black because it's easy to heal through and we would rather have the DPS uptime on the boss instead of killing mobs we don't need to kill.

Black/Blue/Green/Purple, right? That makes sense healing-wise too, since Green is more predictable damage than Black.

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by Expf

Black/Blue/Green/Purple, right? That makes sense healing-wise too, since Green is more predictable damage than Black.

Pretty sure that's the one.

[Skios]

So. 64 bit client. Today I finally gave it a proper stress test in the form of LFR. I have to say that the improvements was very noticeable, and I'm not even running 8gb RAM. Still, everything ran very smooth. Speaking of LFR and noticeable improvements, after a string of unfortunate rolls over the past few weeks I finally got my second piece of T13 for my ret spec. Using only my self-buffs (BoM, Seal of Truth) I immediately saw my DPS jump by over 2k. With retribution being my off spec it had been kind of hard getting gear for it, especially the tier pieces, so I had been lagging behind a bit compared to the main spec DPS.

~edit: So close. So damn close. After quickly dispatching Ultraxion, Blackhorn and Spine tonight, we made ridiculous progress on Madness, especially considering the fact that we had to bring in a somewhat undergeared boomkin out of standby. On three of our pulls we actually got Deathwing down to below 5 million health, 1.2 million on our most successful pull. There's no way we're not going 8/8 tomorrow night.

[MechaKingGhidra]

I've been working on a Death Knight in my spare time (late at night into the wee hours of the morning when my latency is actually tolerable) and I finally got him to 85. I've been doing battlegrounds to turn the honor into justice points to buy gear to tank with since I leveled him as blood and I truly loathe playing unholy and frost because it seems like I'm pushing random buttons than any actual rotation (especially frost) and I like the comparatively simple blood. I even want to try actual tanking on this character.

Only problem is that as soon as I try going into normal dungeons (as I respect that I need to go through the proper chain of events and not jump into heroics straight away), I'm always, without fail, grouped with people who are locked onto the instant gratification idea that they shouldn't be forced to run with a new tank because they are so rushed to get to 85 and have even been called "scum of the earth" because I DARED to actually learn something.

Well, I had enough of those griefing sessions in which I either got kicked after they abused me while I tried to defend my point, or I just left because of all the horrid things being hurled at me.

I am now trying to get premade groups with my guildmates but they are always busy when I'm not, or vice versa. Awkward scheduling ftl.

I really wish I could convert conquest to valor because then, as ridiculously slow as that process might be (I don't do rated bgs nor do I arena), at least I'd have some sort of chance at getting improved gear to help my eventual goal of tanking.

[The Linker]

Scum of the earth? Wut? ಠ_ಠ

[MechaKingGhidra]

Yeah, I know. That particular comment was extreme enough that I think someone was doing a little *puff puff*, if you know what I mean....

Either that or they are so used to everything being handed on a diamond-encrusted plate that anything that is less than the absolute best situation is theoretically wasting their time or some such thing.

I wish these people would learn a little decency and respect for their peers. Oh wait, that's right. They're *above* us, apparently.

/rolls eyes

[Karoht]

A friend of mine was re-learning tanking at the beginning of Cata.
His philosophy was go in, tank, try not to say anything, and at no point give off the impression that he'd never tanked before Cata.
Basically, it's a confidence thing. If you act confident and you focus on your task, you're probably better off than asking questions of people.
By exuding confidence (and a bit of luck in that he never screwed up) he had people seriously impressed by the end of the run.

That was my philosophy when BC rolled around and I made the switch to healing full time. If people don't figure out that I'm new to this, I'm doing something right.

I'd say do exactly what they apparently expect of you. Go in, pull mobs at your pace, hold aggro, next pack, repeat. Bosses on normal are pretty basic, there's the dungeon journal to tell you what they do, and your role as tanking doesn't change dramatically in any of them.

If you do have to ask a question, I find saying the words "Stupid question, ..." rather than assume anything. I find that tends to get people in the right frame of mind to answer a question decently rather than not.

[Skios]

The first time I fell flat on my face while levelling as a tank (which was also the first character I had levelled into Cataclysm content) was the second boss of Blackrock Caverns, where you have to drag him through the lava to remove his buff. Up until then every experience I had had had taught me to just burn through and hope for the best, and never ever show any signs that you might not be 100% up to date on the instance. Unfortunately with the way the game is currently designed that works very well up to and including most of Wrath of the Lich King, but then it comes back to bite you in the rear in Cataclysm.

Anyway, if I'm allowed to change the subject for a moment... transmog gear.

Set #1 is what I'm currently wearing for tanking. It's basically the paladin T4 set with matching belt and boots from Karazhan, plus a random green mace and shield that happened to fit very well with it. I like the uniform look, although it doesn't look very impressive.

Which is why I'm farming set #2, from the Icecrown Citadel 5 man instances. I'm about halfway through completing the set, with the added bonus that the 1h sword that drops from that place matches the set too, meaning I have a transmog weapon in case I get my hands on Souldrinker.

Set #3 is my current DPS gear. Season 4 paladin arena gear with a green 2h axe from Outland that I think looks great, even if the gold is a little too bright on the axe blade. The 2h sword that you get as a reward from completing the new Redridge quest line has a similar dark blue/gold grip, but it looks a little too plain. This is why, should I be lucky enough to get a Gurthalak, I'll probably be using...

Set #4, which is basically the HoT tanking plate and the season 10 2h sword. While they don't match up perfectly, I think the combination is still very nice. I also like the details on the plate, especially the glow on the dragons' mouths in the shoulders.

Anyway, all this rambling about transmog sets made me realize that the game probably should have some sort of 'Fashion Victim' achievement for anyone who spends more than 1k gold on transmogrification.

Also, Madness achievement brag incoming in ~1.5 hours.

[Karoht]

My transmog gear is T7. The Green and Gold one. I'm also rocking Terrok's Staff which is a very large green stick, which does not allow enchants to be seen due to it's unique visual effect.
Not only do I stand out as a green and gold beacon for everyone to follow, but I have yet to run into other druids looking like me.
I plan on making my Boomkin set look like the purple and gold version of T7, or the lovely blue of T11.
I'm going to assemble a red set at some point, but I have yet to see any gear that I particularly think would match. Though, I haven't looked through anything other than leather caster gear, I could look through leather agility gear and see what I find.

[GolemsVoice]

Looking good, son! Although I have to say I'm more than happy with letting my T13 priest set stay the way it is, it's beautiful.

[Skios]

So, turns out I was a little premature in announcing the incoming Madness kill brag. We got ridiculously close several times tonight, but it seems we are just a hair under the minimum DPS requirement. In the end we were pulling off some absolutely ridiculous feats on the final phase. On one pull the other tank and I successfully spread out to either end of the platform and let three Elementium Terrors dance back and forth. There's really no reason why we shouldn't be killing Deathwing with the loot of seven more boss kills coming in next Wednesday.

[Karoht]

Originally Posted by Skios

So, turns out I was a little premature in announcing the incoming Madness kill brag. We got ridiculously close several times tonight, but it seems we are just a hair under the minimum DPS requirement. In the end we were pulling off some absolutely ridiculous feats on the final phase. On one pull the other tank and I successfully spread out to either end of the platform and let three Elementium Terrors dance back and forth. There's really no reason why we shouldn't be killing Deathwing with the loot of seven more boss kills coming in next Wednesday.

Tank them in the time vortex, you'll build stacks much more slowly that way. Also, you shouldn't be DPSing while Terrors or Fragments are up, those really should be priority targets. Don't try to DPS through this, as you have the increasing damage of Hemmorage plus the damage from Terrors/Fragments killing people.

It's a rhythem. Burn until Frags are up. Kill Frags, kill terrors, burn DW, kill frags, kill terrors, burn DW, Kill frags, kill terrors, burn DW. If you don't kill him on the third burn, yikes, you better have cooldowns.
Also, there is no reason why range and healers can't all stack near DW. Mark a spot. The only people who should be moving should be melee/tanks. This way everyone is stacked for AoE healing effects, Barrier, Spirit Link, etc.
Also, after frags are dead, people can hit "dream" at least once before you see frags again, twice if their timing is tight, and it should be back up for when frags start picking people for shrapnel again. Individual damage reducing cooldowns should also be happening at this point.

Aside from heroic progression we are working on the DW achievement this week. We're starting with Nozdormu's platform first. Then Malygos next week. Then Alexstraza, and we're done.

[Shishnarfne]

Heroic Yor'sahj is down! And we were able to clear the remaining six bosses without running too much over our usual time limit. Wiped once on Spine when I failed to get attached properly (then killed it while our disc priest had connection issues during the later portion).

Tomorrow, we attempt to clear a few more heroic modes. I still need to figure out what my priest should be buying with valor points, since unless I start picking up pieces for my shadow spec (and I'm not the guy who goes shadow typically), I am limited to funneling gear towards alts or trying to sell BoE pieces on the AH.

Also, for the second week in a row, Deathwing was kind enough to drop the mount. I'm pretty sure that's a low probability event.

[Expf]

I seem to really enjoy the Dark Phoenix set so I went out of my way to pug normal FL for the lookalikes since I can't use Rogue tier. Thankfully I'm done with that so I never have to go back in there again. I really would like to get the purple version too but I don't see that happening until well into Mists. I also transmogged my new polearm from LFR into the Black Ice but that Nexus theme sure looks out of place with the rest of the gear!

Originally Posted by Karoht

It's a rhythem. Burn until Frags are up. Kill Frags, kill terrors, burn DW, kill frags, kill terrors, burn DW, Kill frags, kill terrors, burn DW. If you don't kill him on the third burn, yikes, you better have cooldowns.

Adding to what he said: upon reaching 5%, it's best to go all out on DW and ignore any new add spawns (some groups can start burning at 10%). This is because at 15%/10%/5% there is a brief spike of raid damage from DW, with the 5% one being the most painful (it is quite difficult to heal through Tetanus on the tank and the raid damage spikes simultaneously). If you have a Paladin and/or DK tank then you're in luck since AMS and Divine Shield can help your reset Tetanus stacks. The 3rd set of adds is also perilously close to the berserk timer so at that point it's kill DW or wipe.

Originally Posted by Shishnarfne

I still need to figure out what my priest should be buying with valor points, since unless I start picking up pieces for my shadow spec (and I'm not the guy who goes shadow typically), I am limited to funneling gear towards alts or trying to sell BoE pieces on the AH.

I find that gear maintenance (enchants/gems/reforges) can be quite expensive these days (Maelstrom Crystals going for 200g+), and if you never plan to use your Shadow set then it would be a waste to pay for all that. Personally, I do enjoy playing alts/off-specs but that comes at a high cost. :) But yeah it definitely seems that this patch they have downplayed the significance of VP for raiders.

Originally Posted by Shishnarfne

Also, for the second week in a row, Deathwing was kind enough to drop the mount. I'm pretty sure that's a low probability event.

That's kinda lucky. :P The one time it dropped for us I chose to pass it so I could save my roll for the other one from DW, despite rolling the highest I've ever rolled on any mount that time. On the bright side, our DK tank likes the quirky look of the mount (probably for the same reason why he uses a purple Judgement set).

[The Linker]

Yeah, my guild just deals with one set of adds and then burns Deathwing, completely ignoring any further adds. We only run with one tank -- he can't even really survive tanking the first set on his own, let alone any subsequent sets, so we don't have much of a choice. But then, that WAS our choice; run with only one tank to maximize DPS. So we burn Deathwing like there's no tomorrow.

[Karoht]

Two great places to farm up Charms for the mount.
1-Slags in Halls of Lightning. Decent drop rate, solid respawn rate, you can solo your way there on normal (or stealth past the trash on heroic), and if you don't kill the two fire adds at the back the respawn rate is supposedly faster.
2-Little purple elementals in Throne of the Tides in the elemental gauntlet leading to the last boss. It's possible to solo the first boss on normal, dodge the second boss, and as long as you don't kill the last two elementals at the end of the hallway, these things respawn quicky and have an excellent drop rate. Paladins can just afk with their ret aura on, and come back every 5 minutes to heal themselves.

As for why one would want to farm for the mount?
It's BoE. Wait 3 months until after the event and sell it for some million gajillion gold. I'm aiming to get 3 by the end of the next two weeks, already most of the way for the first one.

[GolemsVoice]

1-Slags in Halls of Lightning. Decent drop rate, solid respawn rate, you can solo your way there on normal (or stealth past the trash on heroic), and if you don't kill the two fire adds at the back the respawn rate is supposedly faster.

Do these slags still give charms, since they aren't "worthy opponents" anymore, being level 80 and all?