Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

[DerTollUdo]

Just because they are unarmed doesn't mean they cant still pelt with lightsabers or short swords. If they don't have TK fighting, then why don't they all invest in the strongest saber they can make and then do other utility? Why should they worry about prioritizing utility over field control?

That aside though, we don't have anything to really replace it. So, if you feel it should be gone on both pure and unarmed, please type up your edits so we may all see what you mean before we assume you're right :P

Also, is the wording clear on the action part of Unarmed and and Mental strength?

[Veklim]

OK, couple of suggested edits, put in bold below:

Pure Telekineticist.

Spoiler

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.

Unarmed Telekineticist

Spoiler

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force to use in place of normal weapons for your Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action. It also takes a move action to add or remove Hands from the weapons. All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 19-20/x2 at 13th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they are also considered to be cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming DR. Finally, at 16th level they are considered to be adamantine for the purposes of overcoming DR.

These weapons may take the any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect.

Suggested edits reasoning:
Pure TK shouldn't be getting Critical Thinking because it doesn't have TK Fighting!
Unarmed TK shouldn't be able to use TK Fighting with normal weapons, and as such shouldn't be able to use them like that at all (you can still use weapons with force blast of course!). Gave them a critical boost because otherwise they gain no beneift from their main weapon with Critical Thinking, so now they gain a late (levels 11-18) progression to try and keep up with all those pesly party members who have actual corporeal weapons to enchant! Similar reasoning led me to add in their anti-DR progression.

On a related note, why shouldn't we take out this: 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1), and replace it with the faaaaar simpler and yet reasonable: Charisma modifier *(1/2 Invested Hands). It's a simplification (needed) and also a slight nerf which I think they may need if we are to give them the anti-DR and critical progressions (which make them a far more rounded combatant imo)

Also, The Augur is sat outside the Savant spoiler dude, just noticed!

I'm all up for putting a link to your current summation of the class + extras, PM bob with the link and ask him to copy/paste to the top of his post, probably better than putting it into the class post itself.

[Turalisj]

Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

[Veklim]

These guys, at level 20, threaten just about everything and anything within a 200ft radius, and can strike disparate targets anywhere within this range, usually simultaneously... if we scaled up damage to be on par with just a one-handed specialist, we'd OP them to the nine hells and back as a result. These guys are battlefield control experts, they just happen to be able to hurt things a lot whilst doing this!

[Re'ozul]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

What classes were you thinking about?

Even unoptimzed (no con, cha of 20 at lvl 20) he has 7 hands. If all of those are invested into one weapon you'd still have:
+40 attack bonus (+20 BAB, +20 (4xchamod))
7d6+20 damage at full iteratives.

Keep in mind, this is absolutely unoptimized, just as written.

[Turalisj]

I didn't know you added 4*cha mod to your attack >.>

Still, you'd be doing about 1d6+5 damage with a single hand invested.

[Veklim]

Dude, read the class, THEN let us know what you think!

Originally Posted by DerTollUdo

Class:

Spoiler

This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.
The version currently in progress is located here.


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

Objects weighing up to 25lb/level/Hand may be maintained without limit.
Objects weighing up to 50lb/level/Hand as a heavy load freely at a rate of 30' per action
Objects weighing up to 100lb/level/Hand at a rate of 20' per action may be moved normally
Objects weighing up to 500lb/level/Hand at a rate of 10' per action may be pushed or dragged along the ground.
You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand, this may not increase the speed past your fastest natural speed.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse. You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher. You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. Each barrier (including the first) requires a hand to create and maintain.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +2 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs/level per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Alternatively, you may make the field repel creatures. Doing this requires 1 Hand + 1 Hand/target. You may invest extra Hands per target to increase the save DCs by +2 for each extra Hand on a target as well as increase the distance thrown by the field by 10' per hand.

When targeted by the repulsion singularity, a creature must make a fort save to avoid being repulsed 30'. If they fail they cannot reenter the field until the ability is dropped. Once they have been repelled they must make a reflex save or take 5d6 +5d6/Hand invested in the damage.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs:

Spoiler

Pure Telekineticist.

Spoiler

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach, and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.

Unarmed Telekineticist

Spoiler

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons not generated by this ACF with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force to use in place of normal weapons for your Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action. It also takes a move action to add or remove Hands from the weapons. All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 20/x3 at 11th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they are also considered to be cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Finally, at 16th level they are also considered to be adamantine for the purposes of damage reduction.

These weapons may take any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect.

TK SAVANT ACF

Spoiler

Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialised to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Warp Reality
Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You always count as using at least two extra hands to augment your Warp Reality abilities, even if you chose not to spend additional hands to do so (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead, if you choose not to augment at all, you still count as having done so with 2 hands.)

Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)

Spoiler

Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to use your Hands to make claws. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack with which you are automatically proficient. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.

The Traveller (Psychoportation)

Spoiler

Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveler at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.

The Mentalist (Telepathy)

Spoiler

Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

The Augur (Clairsentience)

Spoiler

Add Gather Information to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Precognition
2nd level power. Clairvoyant Sense
3rd level power. Fate Link
4th level power. Remote Viewing
5th level power. Clairtangent Hand (except as follows);

1. This emulates one of your Hands, not the Far Hand power.
2. When you augment this power, it allows you to make a Force Blast or Mental Strength action (not telekinetic force, maneuver or thrust) with the clairtangent hand, as if it were a Hand within your TK range.

Pre-emptive Defences
At 5th level The Augur gains the ability as a move action to 'reserve' a number of his hands up to 1/4 class level. You may reserve these hands until you next sleep, and as long as they are reserved they may not be used for any other abilities, releasing a hand from this ability is a move action. For as long as you have at least one Hand reserved, you gain a +2/hand reserved as an insight bonus to reflex saves and AC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Magic Items

Spoiler

Miniature Boulder:

Spoiler

This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feats:

Spoiler

Look Ma, more hands!(General)

Spoiler

Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1/5 Telekineticist levels (minimum of 1) in addition to the number listed on The Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken once and only at 1st character level.

Enhanced Discipline

Spoiler

Requirements: Level 1 Telekineticist with the TK Savant ACF
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to your psi-like abilities' save DCs, and their durations improve by 50%. You also gain an additional benefit depending upon which discipline you follow, as listed below:
The Beast: You gain scent
The Mentalist: You gain telepathy (limited to your TK range)
The Traveller: You gain fast movement (+10ft to all base speeds)
You must be psionically focused to gain these effects.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.

TK Focus

Spoiler

Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

TK Specialisation

Spoiler

Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+
Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action as part of a full round action is reduced to -1, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus

TK Supremacy

Spoiler

Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialisation, Telekineticist level 12+
Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialisation and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialisation.

[Turalisj]

To be fair, there's a lot of odd math you have to do to figure out all the benefits from the class abilities

For epic abilities, at least with the unarmed TK, I suggest having the weapons counted as Epic for the purposes of DR.

[DerTollUdo]

Originally Posted by Veklim

Suggested edits reasoning:
Pure TK shouldn't be getting Critical Thinking because it doesn't have TK Fighting!
Unarmed TK shouldn't be able to use TK Fighting with normal weapons, and as such shouldn't be able to use them like that at all (you can still use weapons with force blast of course!). Gave them a critical boost because otherwise they gain no beneift from their main weapon with Critical Thinking, so now they gain a late (levels 11-18) progression to try and keep up with all those pesly party members who have actual corporeal weapons to enchant! Similar reasoning led me to add in their anti-DR progression.

On a related note, why shouldn't we take out this: 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1), and replace it with the faaaaar simpler and yet reasonable: Charisma modifier *(1/2 Invested Hands). It's a simplification (needed) and also a slight nerf which I think they may need if we are to give them the anti-DR and critical progressions (which make them a far more rounded combatant imo)

Also, The Augur is sat outside the Savant spoiler dude, just noticed!

I'm all up for putting a link to your current summation of the class + extras, PM bob with the link and ask him to copy/paste to the top of his post, probably better than putting it into the class post itself.

Did the changes and fixes. As to cha*1/2 Hands...at 5 Hands in, it switches bonus from 5d6+30 to 5d6+25. assuming cha +10 Ok, simpler and not too drastic. I'll add it in. I have the link in the post so that when Bob copies it, it will go onto the front page.

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

Ok. We will. Assuming a power stat of +10. A normal fighter gets +~30 to hit 1-2dx+30ish with PA and two hands against a single target.

We get +40 to hit (assuming only two hands) and 2d6+20 to hit. Now damage wise, we might do a little less. But we can do that to 14 targets (with a con of +5 and the feat) with a full attack each. Our emphasis is control, not nukes. But if you really wanted the strongest weapon he could make 20d6+110 with a to hit of 130. But at that point he can't do much else and is gonna get squished.

Originally Posted by Veklim

These guys, at level 20, threaten just about everything and anything within a 200ft radius, and can strike disparate targets anywhere within this range, usually simultaneously... if we scaled up damage to be on par with just a one-handed specialist, we'd OP them to the nine hells and back as a result. These guys are battlefield control experts, they just happen to be able to hurt things a lot whilst doing this!

See above.

Originally Posted by Re'ozul

What classes were you thinking about?

Even unoptimzed (no con, cha of 20 at lvl 20) he has 7 hands. If all of those are invested into one weapon you'd still have:
+40 attack bonus (+20 BAB, +20 (4xchamod))
7d6+20 damage at full iteratives.

Keep in mind, this is absolutely unoptimized, just as written.

Your Hand calculations are wrong. You forgot the capstone doubling. Should we have it also double those from con?

Originally Posted by Turalisj

I didn't know you added 4*cha mod to your attack >.>

Still, you'd be doing about 1d6+5 damage with a single hand invested.

Single Hand investment would be: 1d6+7 but then you could do that 14 different full attacks (Using stats from Re'ozul).

You get to add cha to hit and damage as per TK Fighting. Then when using these weapons, you get a bonus of .5*cha mod*Hands to hit and damage.

Sparked a thought, are these weapons Weapon Focusable? If so they need a general name...

[Turalisj]

General problem with this class: Too. Much. Math.

[DerTollUdo]

Because Wizards are so straight forward...

[Turalisj]

With a wizard, you don't have half a dozen class abilities to work with. I think that's part of the problem I have understanding the class.

[DerTollUdo]

With a wizard, you have just a few dozen spells that each reshape the world and each one requires a different understanding of the deep parts of the rules.

This is just a few class abilities that stand alone. All mechanics and equations are within the class. None are really that complicated...but then again, I realize that brewing takes a solid understanding of the rules so my judgement may be biased.

But this is unproductive. Do you have any thoughts so far on the class? Or things you would like to see the class be able to do?

[bobthe6th]

to be fair, the mechanics are embedded in the class. most classes with complex abilities in standard books spin the explanation into 100 page spell descriptions. takes a bit of a read(note my laze fair mode at the moment...)

[Veklim]

Originally Posted by DerTollUdo

Should we have it also double those from con?

I don't think that's needed at all. Besides, even at epic levels, doubling the effective bonus from any Con pumping kit is perhaps a little excessive, they get 14+Con (+10 with the feat) at 20th already, that's enough I think!

Originally Posted by Turalisj

With a wizard, you don't have half a dozen class abilities to work with. I think that's part of the problem I have understanding the class.

In all fairness, aside from the fact that a 20th level wizard has a minimum of 62 spells known at 20th level (assuming 14 intelligence to start with and not a single scribed spell outside of the ones gained from a new level), they also have to understand the interconnected mechanics of spellcasting itself. The TK has everything it needs right there in front of you, the only choices you need make are which ability to use, and they have less of those than a monk. Even if you take one of the Savant ACFs, you still only have 5 powers to keep track of, and it replaces Far Trick so your number of options is actually almost exactly the same either way.

I can see how this would look slightly intimidating to anyone not entirely comfortable with arithmetic (since it's not really maths, just a bit of multiplication and addition really) because the class is actually pretty substantial, but bob hit the nail on the head here:

Originally Posted by bobthe6th

to be fair, the mechanics are embedded in the class. most classes with complex abilities in standard books spin the explanation into 100 page spell descriptions.

What we're trying to present here is a strong Tier 3 blaster/field control expert with enough variety (through feats, ACFs and class adaptability) to stay interesting to play. There's a reason there isn't much of anything in any of the books which does this, because it's surprisingly hard to find the fulcrum between effectiveness and game balance. Either you end up with a class full of abilities and little utility/choice, or you end up with a spellcaster. We didn't want either of these things.

As the class is presented right now, it is capable of making itself VERY effective in combat, but it's most effective as part of a group. The fighters and rogues of the world would love to have someone like this as an ally, because they can make the most of their own abilities, mages may feel a bit hard done by at first, but once they realise they can now focus on dangerous targets instead of feeling they have to use every AoE, status changing and lockdown spell in their repertoire for battlefield control, they'll grow to love the TK too.

Playing a TK for the first time would be a steep learning curve, but no steeper than playing a fullcaster for the first time (significantly less so in my opinion). The 'maths problem' isn't as big as you seem to imagine, once you know the basics of each ability they're actually quite intuitive to increase. I dunno if you've ever played a high level optimised build, but the amount of arithmetic concerned in doing so is generally on a par with the TK, we just gave you more options within each ability, not really any more work.

@DerTollUdo:
Mental Strength reads 500lb/level/hand for dragging, it should be 250lb/level/hand (5x heavy load)

OK, finally, here's the last of the Savant disciplines. I've decided not to do a psychokinesis entry because hey, they already do that stuff better than anyone, adding more by taking away Far Trick seems like MS PHD to me (More of the Same, Piled Higher & Deeper). Just feels pointless!

So, finally (again) here's
The Maker

Spoiler

Add Knowledge (Engineering) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Astral Construct
2nd level power. Psionic Repair Damage
3rd level power. Ectoplasmic Cocoon
4th level power. Psionic Fabricate
5th level power. Hail of Crystals

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work. This ability has 3 effects:

1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check.
This may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

[DerTollUdo]

Ok, I thought it was 10x heavy lol. My bad.

And I guess they don't need that many extra Hands, but I can see them wanting that many lol.

As for the maker, I don't understand what you mean by the ability with the shields. Reword that and once it is clearer I will add it to the post.

[Veklim]

Fair enough, gonna change it now, decided that's a bit much anyhow, on a second look through. Have another idea, should suffice methinks, still pretty rockin'....

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work. This ability has 3 effects:
1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check.
This may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

[Re'ozul]

I like the maker, the increase is noticable and can actually help to earn money.

The hemisphere option is a lot better than the breakdown version, mostly because the latter could have been insane.

Breakdown version; lvl 20 pure tele: 40 hands
Allows for one pane of 205'x205'. Thats 1681 individual 5'x5' panes. Since 4 of those make the 10'x10' shield that would come to a maximum of 420 individual shields he could create...who needs the maze spell.

[Veklim]

Originally Posted by Re'ozul

I like the maker, the increase is noticable and can actually help to earn money.

That was the point, I was wary of making such a big deal over some Crafting improvements, but I thought it gave a really strong handhold on an otherwise slippery niche (making Crafts pay enough to be worthwhile!).

Originally Posted by Re'ozul

The hemisphere option is a lot better than the breakdown version...

I looked through the numbers and figured it gave a good improvement on what you could do, without being too exploitable as a consequence.

Originally Posted by Re'ozul

Breakdown version; lvl 20 pure tele: 40 hands
Allows for one pane of 205'x205'. Thats 1681 individual 5'x5' panes. Since 4 of those make the 10'x10' shield that would come to a maximum of 420 individual shields he could create...who needs the maze spell.

Although you can't actually take Pure TK & Savant at the same time (they both replace martial skill and critical thinking, can't have them both!), I still agree with you that the breakdown concept was a little flawed, hehehe. At least they were breakdown to 10'x10', still broken but not so badly!

[DerTollUdo]

Alright, added Maker to the table.
Now, to help us get a sense of balance I propose a thought experiment.
Build a character at let's say level 5 10 15 and 20. Then figure out how you approach these following combat scenarios.

You and your party are surprised, your wizard is caught between buffs and gets caught up defending himself and cannot help. Your other physical heavies get their targets, and cant really help you. You are left with a handful of enemies to deal with by yourself. Lets say 3 then 6, 9, and 12. All of them are melee heavies.
Ill add more later. Just put up how you would go about it, round by round isnt needed unless you want.

[Veklim]

OK guys, gonna get a couple of my DM friends round tomorrow after work and try some playtesting with these guys. In the meantime, does anyone know of anyone who does playtesting for people? I'm working multiple random extended/split shifts 6 days a week just now, so finding time is often a hassle just now, the help would be VERY much appreciated.

Just as a thought, should we test just the base class first, then make sample level 10s of the ACFs to compare?

Either way, Humans and Strongheart Halflings are gonna have a ball, because they can actually take both of the 1st level only feats, as long as they take a Savant ACF...that could potentially be rather devastating, especially if they're using The Maker (enough hands to make a dome within a dome)!

Also:

Originally Posted by DerTollUdo

Alright, added Maker to the table.

I don't see it, and the Unarmed TK hasn't been updated with the Cha + (1/2 hands) thing either, unless I'm looking in the wrong place...?!

[bobthe6th]

well... if the base class is broken, the AFCs will need to change to fit a fix...

[Veklim]

Good point, well taken. Base class first it is sir!

I'm planning on using my pet DMs to run small groups to work as allies and enemies, and we can all monitor the TK whilst I play it. I'll be taking notes, not minutes, but if anything of import happens I shall endeavour to report with some detail. Not sure how much I'll have time to do tomorrow, but I'll certainly have something for you by Monday sometime!

[DerTollUdo]

Maker is on the list. Check post 146 thats where I keep updating. Saves me time of always copy pasting. As for UA the change for bonus isnt changed because I hadnt found a good fix yet. Now I have.
Seperate to hit and damage. Make to hit bonus of +1 per Hand make damage bonus gone but stay at 1d6 per Hand. We had been forgetting that you already add cha to hit and damage from tk fighting. I feel this brings it in line while still making it viable. Thoughts?
Also, Bob, the most updated version is post 146, it even has a link in it that you can put in the first post so people can find it if you get swamped again.

[bobthe6th]

up blahblahblah

[DerTollUdo]

Cool. Thanks Bob.

So thoughts on the UA change? And anyone want to even attempt my thought experiment? Should I change the scenario?

[Re'ozul]

UA change is okay.

I won't actually build a full character but here is my take on the level 5 character, vanilla telekineticist.

Assuming base 16 cha, 14 con, 14 dex with +2 items in cha and con.

Strongheart Halfling
Combat reflexes (total 4 AoO)
spiked chain expertise

Total number of hands: 5

What you have:
- Mental Strenght
- Force Blast
- Far Trick (Bullrush only)
- Telekinetic Fighting

Enemies: 3
Nominal hp of enemies: probably around 50hp at most

Viable options:
1) use 2 hands to keep up 2 spiked chains in two squares adjacent to and diagonal through yours. This gives you a total trip capability. However, it'll only allow one trip attempt before the enemy is upon you if the enemy is smart. 4 chains work better, but cut deeply into your hand budget.
Whatever hands you have over, you can use to blast the enemy either with rocks (if you only have 1 hand left) or the touch version (if you have more).
The touch blast does 5d4 now, so a hit with 3 of them (at +3 attack bonus) could deeply cut into one enemy. The rock version is even better if you have easy access to heavy things.
2) depending on the enemy's mass you can just float them away with mental strenght. Your DC is now 16 so CR5 grunts should be reasonably susceptible. Your strongest weapon is force blast again though.

Honestly I can see the spiked chain version far better. Its also one of the things that makes telekinetic fighting a lot more useful.

[DerTollUdo]

Thank you. Thats really what I was looking for, not full chars. Just the ideas of what would or could be done since I feel that is better for balancing.
So it seems that at level 5, 3 enemies isn't really that big of a threat. I wonder where the line is between handling well, overpowering, and losing to will lie...

[Re'ozul]

Well, at first I was wondering how the lvl 5 character (no good far tricks, no shields) would hold out. Spiked chain coverage is kind of a dirty trick.

Normal chain-tripper is somewhat annoying for a DM. This guy can wield multiple chains.

Later he can probably out-chain a chain-devil.

[Veklim]

Currently running full test on standard and unarmed builds, will run through a couple of combat encounters at 5th, 10th & 15th over the next few days. Results pending...

Will do other ACFs if this goes well!