General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

Well in this case you're right but ever since the Infernals book dropped it's usually been about them.

What Yuki said.

Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*

*You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.

[Rockphed]

Golentan, stop invoking "I'm-right-and-anyone-who-disagrees-with-me-is-wrong Prana." It won't break my perfect UMI defense "I-cannot-hear-you-over-the-sound-of-how-awesome-I-am Prana."

Also, while math is secondary to the awesome stunts, it is primary to actually punching people into ducks. Especially llamas.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you want no math and only awesome, why are you playing an RPG. There's this thing called freeform roleplaying, you know.

[tonberrian]

Originally Posted by golentan

You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.

So tempted to sig this.

[Rhyvurg]

I know there's going to be some math but at some point it's to much. I know a guy who posts rolls as lengthy equations that look like they were found inside the ship at Roswell. At some point it stops being about playing the game well and starts being about trying to make yourself seem like you're better than everyone else.

[aetherialDawn]

Solars can be made to be cool. This is completely separate, and sometimes perpendicular, to their mechanics.

Infernals are cool, and generally need to be at least one kind of cool in order to make their mechanics work.

Abyssals are in the same boat as Solars, but the Abyssal boat has holes in the bottom and no life vests.

As for math, it happens. You don't need to know all the whys and comparisons we are going through, though.
If you want the summary thus far:
Panoptic Fusion Discipline is really good.
Soak is quite good.
Parry DV now outclasses dodge for many purposes.
DV Penalties matter much more now, so don't flurry too hard unless you have a charm to negate the penalties.
Unexpected-Attack-Negation is still a requirement for a combat-safe character. A Perfect Defense is nice, but not quite so required.

Dodge got hit with the nerfbat and Perfect Soaks are really, really good. (White Veil stylists would just smile and load up on contact-instead-of-injury poisons, but sadly, there are no White Veil stylists, nor indeed is there a White Veil style.)

[Madwand]

Quick question: why Wyld-Shaping errata is not included in 2.5? If I may ask: could someone post this question on WW forum?

Errata

[Draken]

Hmm... Odd.

I can't find Laughing Gust Denial in the errata.

Does that mean it is cheaper for Adorjan to perfectly dodge all attacks in one tick than it is for her to dodge one attack?

[Tavar]

I believe it's something they're still working on. Remember, 2.5 wasn't really system-wide errata. It was simply errata to the combat system first, and Social Combat as a side issue.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by Tavar

I believe it's something they're still working on. Remember, 2.5 wasn't really system-wide errata. It was simply errata to the combat system first, and Social Combat as a side issue.

Except... Laughing Gust Denial is part of the combat system.

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Tavar

I believe it's something they're still working on. Remember, 2.5 wasn't really system-wide errata. It was simply errata to the combat system first, and Social Combat as a side issue.

To be specific, LGD is the upgrade to Who Strikes The Wind? that makes it into a ticklong PD for the cost of six motes.

[Tavar]

Sorry, that was directed at Madwand, not Draken.

[Guancyto]

Not even vaguely unreasonable to houserule it to be +3m on top of the cost of Who Strikes the Wind, but yeah, it is a bit of an oversight.

[aetherialDawn]

I assume that since an enormous number of ticklong PD upgrades are surcharges rather than their own flat costs, it just didn't get noticed in the enormous flood of other problems that was Lethality.

[TheCountAlucard]

I wonder if Lightning Clutch of the Raptor is going to get further errata to clarify its uselessness against hand-to-hand counts as a FoI...

[aetherialDawn]

So I read through combos and the DB free-reflexives, and I think I've found something of interest.

Free reflexives are no more Obvious than the charms that are used, just as they have always been, yes?

Well, EVERY Combo has an unmistakable display of Essence.

So there is still a quite heavy limit on the new Combo rules: They still, essentially, apply an extra-shiny Obvious keyword.

I don't know if anyone else didn't realize this immediately, but it seems cool to me. Which leads into the next question: Am I wrong?

[Lord Raziere]

oh yeah, that reminds me. remember how primordials have 1000 mote pools?

well, 8 motes per perfect defense activation means that they are the only ones who can spam PD's now. good luck finding their greater imperfections, cause that will be the only way you'll be able to beat them.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

oh yeah, that reminds me. remember how primordials have 1000 mote pools?

well, 8 motes per perfect defense activation means that they are the only ones who can spam PD's now. good luck finding their greater imperfections, cause that will be the only way you'll be able to beat them.

Which is the intent. Remember, the Ebon Dragon (that ****) tries to

Spoiler

kill UCS in order to close his Imperfection.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by tonberrian

So tempted to sig this.

Have at.

Originally Posted by Rockphed

Golentan, stop invoking "I'm-right-and-anyone-who-disagrees-with-me-is-wrong Prana." It won't break my perfect UMI defense "I-cannot-hear-you-over-the-sound-of-how-awesome-I-am Prana."

Also, while math is secondary to the awesome stunts, it is primary to actually punching people into ducks. Especially llamas.

For the record, I'm not absolutely convinced I'm right. I just find operating on the other assumption much more difficult.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by aetherialDawn

Well, EVERY Combo has an unmistakable display of Essence.

Not social combos.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

Not social combos.

OH REALLY?
swords are not words, but words can be swords -Elloge

[Lochar]

That's because Interrupt the Other Guy Prana has the Obvious Keyword. If all the Charms of a social combo don't have the Obvious keyword, neither is the social combo.

[aetherialDawn]

So then...

A combo is Obvious from the moment you activate its first charm still.
Interesting.
(Except for social or dramatic action combos which lack any Obvious charms.)

[golentan]

Originally Posted by aetherialDawn

So then...

A combo is Obvious from the moment you activate its first charm still.
Interesting.
(Except for social or dramatic action combos which lack any Obvious charms.)

I think though that it's retroactively obvious, because as I read it you don't need to declare your charms ahead of time.

[Qwertystop]

I've just finished my first character sheet, to make sure I understand. Any flaws, either rule-breaking or just bad decisions?

Spoiler

Name:
Exalt Type and Caste: Solar (Night)
Anima: Branching lines of gold and violet, like a towering tree, though it looks like a gecko’s foot when viewed from above.

Motivation:
Punishing rid of anybody who negatively affects the integrity of a family without good reason, in a way that does not link directly to him.

Background: Heard about the “Anethema”. Trusted the stories in youth (the dragon-blooded look AWESOME, they must be right). In late teens, he saw a Lunar (anima flaring) near his father, who was trapped in a burning building. He tried to attack her, but changed his mind when the Lunar rescued his father. He then decided to learn as much as possible about the Exaltation, starting with the Lunar who rescued said family member. Though trying to learn about her without being noticed, he was discovered by a new Dragon-Blooded. He tried to fight (stealthily, of course. Not an idiot), and Exalted, then escaped unidentified.

Attributes

Spoiler

Primary (Mental): 8
Secondary (Social): 6
Tertiary (Physical): 4

Physical:
Strength ●
Dexterity ●●●
Stamina ●●●

Social:
Charisma ●●●
Manipulation ●●●
Appearance ●●●

Mental
Perception ●●●●●
Intelligence ●●●
Wits ●●●

Abilities (Specializations +)

Spoiler

[Note: Place [C]aste and [F]avoured tags, for clarity.]
Total without BP/XP: 28
(If using Dawn Solution rules, 4 free specialty dots, and Abilities can be raised to 5 without BP)

Archery
Martial Arts
Melee
[F]Thrown ●●-●●● (While Running 2, Attacking From Cover)
War

Integrity
Performance
Presence
Resistance -●●
Survival

[F]Craft (Water) ●
[F]Investigate ●-●●
Lore
Medicine
Occult

[C]Athletics ●●-●
[C]Awareness ●-●●
[C]Dodge ●-●●
[C]Larceny -●●●
[C]Stealth●-●●● (Hiding From Pursuers)

Bureaucracy
Linguistics
Ride
Sail
[F]Socialize ●-●●●

Backgrounds, Artifacts and Equipment:

Spoiler

Backgrounds:
Familiar ●●●: A gecko, pale blue with pale yellow spots. Name is Cil

Artifacts and Equipment:
Artifact: Orichalum Sky-Cutter (●●), Dalioki

Exalted 2nd Edition core

Manse: ●●
Stone: The Monkey Stone (nonsocketed) Exalted 2nd edition Core

Spoiler

Creation Points: [(Value of Manse x2)+bonus from Manse Flaws]
>[List what the points are spent on]

Resources: ●●●
[i]While there are plenty of people willing to pay for, for example, humiliation or robbery of an adulterer, advertising Exaltation is a deathwish. Therefore, these activities were used only to gain enough money to buy a large farm, which keeps his Resources steady.[i]

Spoiler

>Fine clothing (●●)
>Buff jacket (●)
>Food for Cil (●●, based on “food for exotic pet)
>Plenty of needles (the weapon) (●)
>Coral Snake Venom, 10 doses (●)

Charms

Spoiler

Athletics
Excellencies
[Charms]
Increasing-Strength Exercise
Graceful Crane Stance
Spider-Foot Style
Dodge
Excellencies
[Charms]
Shadow Over Water
Reflex Sidestep Technique
Leaping Dodge Method
Stealth
Excellencies
[Charms]
Easily Overlooked Presence Method
Invisible Statue Spirit
Larceny
Excellencies
[Charms]
Lock-opening Touch
Resistance
Ox-Body Technique (1 -1, 2 -2)
[Thrown]
Excellencies
First Thrown Exellency
[Charms]
Joint-Wounding Attack
Triple-distance Attack Technique

Combos:
Combat Stats:

Spoiler

Join Combat:

Attacks:

Spoiler

Dalioki:
Acc: 10 [(((Dex+Thrown)+2)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: 6L [1+5L] | Parry DV: 4[(((Dex+Ability)+0)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 2 | Range:50

Dodge DV: 4 [((((Dex+Ability)+Essence)+Bonus Dice From Equipment) = X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers]

Permanent Charms (Effects)
Ox-Body Technique (a -1 health level and two -2 health levels)
Soak:
Bashing:7 [((Stamina+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Lethal: 5[(((Stamina /2)+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Aggravated: 3[Armour+Any other Modifiers)]

Hardness:
Bashing: 0[Highest value from any source]
Lethal: 0[Highest value from any source]
Aggravated: 0[Highest value from any source]

Health:
-0 [ ]
-1 [ ][ ][ ]
-2 [ ][ ][ ][ ]
-4 [ ]
X [ ]

Mental Defenses:
Dodge MDV: 4[((((Willpower+Integrity)+Relevant Specialty)+Essence)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]
Charisma Parry MDV:
>Presence: 2[(((Charisma+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: 2[(((Charisma+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Manipulation Parry MDV:
>Presence: 2[(((Manipulation+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: 2[(((Manipulation+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]

Virtues:
Compassion ●●●
Conviction ●
Temperance ●●●●
Valor ●

Virtue Flaw/Flawed Virtue:
Contempt of the Virtuous/Temperance
Intimacies:
Cil, his gecko, who was a familiar since Exaltation and a pet before that.
Discovering the identity of the Lunar who rescued his father.
Languages:
??? (Native)

Willpower: ●●●●●●●

Essence:
Permanent: ●●
Personal: 13 (13) [(Permanent Essence x3)+Willpower]
Peripheral: 28 (30) (2) [(Permanent Essence x7)+Willpower)+Sum of Virtues]

Bonus Points and XP:

Spoiler

Bonus Points:
Total:18/18 | Flaws:
Stealth had 1 bonus point spent on it, Thrown had 2, Socialize had 1.
2 bonus points were spent on Manse.
1 bonus point was spent on Resources.
12 were spent between the Larceny charm and the two Thrown ones.
Experience Points. Spent: 0 | Left: 0 | Total: 0

No name because I always have trouble thinking of names.

I only used the core book.

[Jade Dragon]

I'm not sure how you got the extra charms and abilities, I need to see your Bonus Points allocation.

Dumping physical is pretty much always a bad idea. Mental and social are less valuable, unless you're a sorcerer and don't engage in physical combat. And then, you still want to have high Dexterity for good speed and decent Stamina for Ox-Body Technique and Resistance checks (unless you take Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit and maybe Element-Resisting Prana).

Appearance is a godsend stat for social characters. You would think things such as speeches are based on Charisma, but apparently Appearance is the one because of "poise". Taking out a point of Charisma and/or Manipulation for Appearance would be good. You're not putting any points in Performance or Presence, but you are putting some in Socialize, so it's better to keep the Manipulation 3.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh that reminds me, since Spirits are actual threats in 2.5, playing a pure Sorcerer is a viable option now, since the things you summon can actually kill other Exalts.

that and your blood ape can now distract your opponents long enough to cast your combat spells now. I think, I might be wrong.

[Qwertystop]

In abilities, the ones before the dash were bought with the 10 favored-or-caste points. After were bought with the 18 any-ability points.

Stealth had 1 bonus point spent on it, Thrown had 2, Socialize had 1.

2 bonus points were spent on Manse.

1 bonus point was spent on Resources.

12 were spent on the Larceny charm and the two Thrown ones.

So should it be mental-physical-social or social-physical-mental?

I'll add the bonus point allocation to the sheet.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

Oh that reminds me, since Spirits are actual threats in 2.5, playing a pure Sorcerer is a viable option now, since the things you summon can actually kill other Exalts.

that and your blood ape can now distract your opponents long enough to cast your combat spells now. I think, I might be wrong.

How are spirits a viable threat?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

How are spirits a viable threat?

While they have a smaller dice pool than any exalt, they still can get perfect effects with Divine (Ability) Subordination for powerful gods, and they have a large enough mote pool to throw charms around left and right, and the increased cost of perfect d's make relying on more common defenses more necessary thus making even celestials vulnerable to a sufficiently determined and powerful spirit. And with the new ping rules and spirit's tendency to have ridiculous numbers of health levels, they can take a very large number of hits to bring down.

They're not a major threat, mind, but they are a threat. A blood ape can't challenge a moderately combat focused solaroid, but can pose a threat to under optimized characters or characters focused excessively on other areas.