Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Squark

*snip*

1. I already have some broadsides in there. Also, I have seen EMPs take down a land raider, quite quickly, and I have those fusion guns.
2. Doesn't having the markerlights to throw in help with the ballistics and pretty much everything else? I mean, spending 2 markerlights brings up an entire firewarriors unit to BS 5 as I read it.
3. I'm not playing necron. I'm playing the Tau because I like the faction, not because I want to be the biggest kid on the block. I want to play my way. Even if that means I get drubbed 5 times out of 6, that's a tax I'm willing to pay. That said, I'm looking to flesh out my strategy enough to help (I would like to win occasionally).
4. I'm willing to sub in some more crisis suit units, if'n that'll help. I assume armament varies based on opponent and mission, but what is a good general loadout?
5. Still wondering if Marker Pinning might be effective at holding the line, so to speak.
6. I heard it bandied about Tau are likely to get a new codex later this year. Should I hold off putting together an army till then (basically how likely is effective play to drastically change)?

[golentan]

And new reply while I posted. Handy.

Hmm. EMPs no good? Alrighty, I will take that under advisement (as mentioned I saw them demonstrated but I may have watched a fluke).

Plasma. Gotcha (I had been worried the cost on that was too high). Similarly glad for the advice on equipping the devilfish and broadsides.

No markerlights... That's actually a holdover. I decided on a vanilla Pathfinder team, but had earlier toyed with the idea of giving some rail rifles. According to the codex, rail rifle substitutions replace both the carbine and the markerlight.

I'm sad at the comment on pinning. Oh well. Newb and all that.

[Drasius]

Wraith, though I can't comment on the tactical content of your review since I wouldn't know a scatterlaser from a brightlance, I though that was a very well laid out review that flowed excellently and contained lots of good info on the reasons behind the different choices.

I can see the improvement from your other reviews (they certainly weren't bad, just that I thought this one was really good). Not only that, I actually enjoyed it, and I really don't like Eldar that much.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by golentan

6. I heard it bandied about Tau are likely to get a new codex later this year.

That's been happening for years. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

The next Codecies are most likely (going from solid rumours and source-mongering) are one of either Chaos Marines, Dark Angels or Black Templars.

[Ricky S]

Originally Posted by golentan

And new reply while I posted. Handy.

Hmm. EMPs no good? Alrighty, I will take that under advisement (as mentioned I saw them demonstrated but I may have watched a fluke).

Plasma. Gotcha (I had been worried the cost on that was too high). Similarly glad for the advice on equipping the devilfish and broadsides.

No markerlights... That's actually a holdover. I decided on a vanilla Pathfinder team, but had earlier toyed with the idea of giving some rail rifles. According to the codex, rail rifle substitutions replace both the carbine and the markerlight.

I'm sad at the comment on pinning. Oh well. Newb and all that.

Its not that EMP's are bad at cracking open vehicles its just that firewarriors arent the ideal ones to carry them. What most people do is to pop vehicles from across the board with railguns and the firewarriors sit on an objective and shoot while in cover. They are your troops units so you need to keep them alive. Blowing up vehicles which probably have troops inside is a dangerous idea because they will assault your firewarriors afterwards.

Ideally no vehicles should get near the firewarriors that they have to assault.

Plasma is quite expensive but it is so effective. It will be able to take out any enemy infantry easily. Combined with your fusion blaster you will have three shots (within 12") that can destroy marines or monstrous creatures or just about anything. Using markerlights hits with this squad will make them even more dangerous. Depending on how many hits you get you can reduce the enemy's cover save completely while increasing your BS.

I know. I was rather miffed too when I first started playing at the amount of stuff that ignores it. Chaos is especially annoying as the majority are fearless. It is useful but you can't rely on it as a tactic.

[Squark]

Originally Posted by golentan

1. I already have some broadsides in there. Also, I have seen EMPs take down a land raider, quite quickly, and I have those fusion guns.
2. Doesn't having the markerlights to throw in help with the ballistics and pretty much everything else? I mean, spending 2 markerlights brings up an entire firewarriors unit to BS 5 as I read it.
3. I'm not playing necron. I'm playing the Tau because I like the faction, not because I want to be the biggest kid on the block. I want to play my way. Even if that means I get drubbed 5 times out of 6, that's a tax I'm willing to pay. That said, I'm looking to flesh out my strategy enough to help (I would like to win occasionally).
4. I'm willing to sub in some more crisis suit units, if'n that'll help. I assume armament varies based on opponent and mission, but what is a good general loadout?
5. Still wondering if Marker Pinning might be effective at holding the line, so to speak.
6. I heard it bandied about Tau are likely to get a new codex later this year. Should I hold off putting together an army till then (basically how likely is effective play to drastically change)?

1. I realize that. But the best thing about Tau are railguns. More is More, here. Also, Fusion blasters are weaker here than Meltaguns would be, because using them implies being in assault range of the enemy, and that implies that, unless you are a vehicle, you are going to die on the enemy turn.
2. In theory... In practice, the markerlights are going to need to be used for other things.
3. That's fine. Good, actually. But, particularly as a new player, winning one out of six games as Tau, depending on your metagame, might be too optimistic. Forewarned is Forearmed, here. I made a similar choice when I choose Necrons a while back, and getting crushed in every game your opponent doesn't deliberately gimp* themselves isn't fun for a lot of people. Ultimately, It's just important that you know that Tau are currently one of the two worst armies in the game, competitively speaking.
4. Ask other people. I don't have the Tau codex, so I can only speak in the most general terms. But Plasma is always, always good. I've also seen a fair amount of rocket pods.
5. Too much fearless stuff, I'm afraid, so Pinning lists aren't very effective. Also, a lot of armies are going Mechanized, and pinning tests don't do anything against Marines in Metal boxes.
6. Tau, like Necrons, have been "likely to get a new codex later this year" for... Most of 5th edition. Without solid info, we really can't be sure. The only thing we can be very sure of at all is that the next release is basically garunteed to be another Marines Codex, and that's a combination of rumors and GW policy. Plus, since 6th edition is on the horizon, once that comes out, the popular armies are likely to push some of the less popular armies back, so they can get their own update.

*The only game I won with my Old Necron army, prior to the new codex, was when a friend decided to experiment with an all Zeentch Demons list.

Originally Posted by CN the Logos

Spoiler

WARNING: MORE NEWBISH QUESTIONS AHEAD.

So, I think I've got enough of my Necrons put together to try a smaller game, to refamiliarize myself with the various rules I've forgotten in the nearly a year since the few times I've played. So now I'm looking for a bit of help putting together a list for a lower point game.

I currently have, on hand and more or less assembled:

1 Overlord w/Resurrection Orb and Warscythe.

1 Trazyn the Infinite (because he's cool and hordes seem popular at my LGS)

2 Lords w/Resurrection Orb and Warscythe.

5 Crypteks (whatever they need to be)

6 Destroyers

~40 or 50 Warriors

~15 Scarabs

In addition, I gave in to the Dark Side, and purchased three Ghost Arks (they were on sale). Haven't put them together yet, but I could have a couple assembled by next week probably. But how valuable is the Ark in a game where it represents a tenth to a fifth of your available points? Same with the C'tan Shard; I've got two models that would make excellent C'tan proxies (Cthulhu the Eldritch Demon and an evil tree that looks sort of like Exdeath from Final Fantasy V), but I'm not sure how many total points I'd need before a C'tan stops taking up too much of my force to be useful.

I'm also debating how to prioritize and divide up my powers on the C'tan (if I take more than one; not likely but might happen once I start playing with more points). Gaze of Death plus Sentient Singularity seems like it would be awesome in close combat, but that's investing a lot in one model and I'm not sure how to get him to melee without getting blasted to pieces. Does "Monstrous Creature (character)" mean it counts as an independent character? Or does my melee C'tan just have to stick to cover as well as it can and pray it doesn't die before making it to combat?

I also got a couple of Annihilation Barges along with the Ghost Arks. I know Cheesegear dislikes them, but they were fairly cheap and I like the model. Anyone else have any experience with these?

Thanks for taking the time to read this newbishness. Any help you can offer will be appreciated.

Right, first off, Necron Warriors 101: You need lots of them. Without a 3+ armor save and a Heavy Bolter Guass weapon, Necron Warriors need to be spammed to survive. As a corollary to this, Those Necron Lords are an excellent choice for leading the warrior groups. Also, as far as crypteks, go, Destruction Crypteks are worth their weight in gold.

Ghost barges... I'll level with you; I really don't know how to use Ghost Barges. My initial reaction to them was "No anti-tank on such an expensive transport? Blech", but that's just one person's opinion. My best recommendation is to look around for more information on them.

Annihilation Barges... Basically, there are too camps as far as these things go; "Good because Cheep", and "Cheep because bad". Ultimately, if you already have them, your best bet is to test them in games.

Ctan... Generally speaking, you don't want more than 1 C'tan in a lower points game, and that should be a fairly cheep one (Lord of Flame and Pyreshards is fairly cheep and flavorful). Be advised, though, that GW gets touchy about using other companies' models.

[Tychris1]

Question: a friend of mine has been interested in Tau and reading up on them befor promptly saying that Vespid/Firewarriors are awesome despite what I've heard on this thread. So tell me, why are Vespid terrible? I already know Firewarriors are bad because BS 3 coupled with crappy leadership and bad CC and survivability make them not worth it. But I'm unsure as to how bad Vespid are.

[Tome]

Originally Posted by Tychris1

Question: a friend of mine has been interested in Tau and reading up on them befor promptly saying that Vespid/Firewarriors are awesome despite what I've heard on this thread. So tell me, why are Vespid terrible? I already know Firewarriors are bad because BS 3 coupled with crappy leadership and bad CC and survivability make them not worth it. But I'm unsure as to how bad Vespid are.

Mostly, it's a combination of really high cost (the same as a tactical marine), really short range (inside assault range) and being really, really fragile (Ork durability). Which is a terrible combination.

Even if they don't get shot to death while moving into range to shoot, which they may very well do thanks to dying to bolters, they'll get one round of shooting before whatever's left turns around and assaults them. Which is not worth the points you pay for them.

If they had a little more range, and maybe counted as having Jet Packs instead of Jump Packs, they might be worth it. As it is, they're terrible.

A single unit is the same cost as a fully-equipped Crisis Team. Buy that instead. If you only have Fast Attack slots left, take a unit of three Piranhas with Meltaguns Fusion Blasters.

[Wraith]

Pretty much, for the same reason - They are much more expensive than Fire Warriors, and they're still only BS3.

On top of that, their range is only 12" - even including Jump-Shoot-Jump tactics they're likely to get Assaulted and then wiped out immediately - and they can't take anything to make them better.
Even Fire Warriors can use Markerlights to help out the rest of the army, but as soon as your opponent brings out some sort of tank, or goes into cover? Vespids can't do a single damn thing about it. Apart from get shot to death.
180pts well spent!

Originally Posted by Drasius

Wraith, though I can't comment on the tactical content of your review since I wouldn't know a scatterlaser from a brightlance, I though that was a very well laid out review that flowed excellently and contained lots of good info on the reasons behind the different choices.

Thank you very much, Drasius. I started out just hoping that any aspiring Eldar player would learn something from my years of toil and failure, but knowing that I'm entertaining as I do it is the best reward.

Stick around for the Fast Choices, which I will hopefully get to when I have some free time at the weekend.

[CN the Logos]

Originally Posted by Squark

Right, first off, Necron Warriors 101: You need lots of them. Without a 3+ armor save and a Heavy Bolter Guass weapon, Necron Warriors need to be spammed to survive. As a corollary to this, Those Necron Lords are an excellent choice for leading the warrior groups. Also, as far as crypteks, go, Destruction Crypteks are worth their weight in gold.

Well, I've got warriors to spam, so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess what I'm wondering here is whether larger groups that can benefit from a single Lord's Resurrection Orb are worth the risk of a sweeping advance, not to mention that unless I have a second Overlord equivalent, I can't put a Lord and a Cryptek with the same unit.

Ghost barges... I'll level with you; I really don't know how to use Ghost Barges. My initial reaction to them was "No anti-tank on such an expensive transport? Blech", but that's just one person's opinion. My best recommendation is to look around for more information on them.

My initial thought was that putting a Harbinger of Destruction (or two in higher point games, given the Necron FAQ) in each one of these I took was the way to go. Zip around the battlefield firing mah lazers fourteen Gauss flayers (technically nineteen, but you can only use one of the two arrays when firing at a single target) and an eldritch lance at anything that annoys me. The question is whether the Ark adds enough value in addition to its own guns to be worth not taking nine warriors instead. And I could see the answer changing depending on the total number of points available for troops as well. Still not sure what I want to do here.

Ctan... Generally speaking, you don't want more than 1 C'tan in a lower points game, and that should be a fairly cheep one (Lord of Flame and Pyreshards is fairly cheep and flavorful). Be advised, though, that GW gets touchy about using other companies' models.

Games Workshop is perfectly entitled to be touchy about other companies' models in official tournaments and their stores. I wouldn't want to support or advertize for my competition either. But I don't think my local store holds any officially sanctioned GW tourneys, and I'm not sure whether they even have a store within a hundred miles of me, so I'm less worried about that than about the models being close enough to the official C'tan so that no one calls line of sight shenanigans. Besides, if they didn't want me to use other models for the multitude of C'tan that are not the Deceiver or Nightbringer, they should release new models.

However, your suggestion about Lord of Flame and Pyreshards plus the official GW models for official tourneys rule suggests an amusing idea. Take the Avatar of Khaine. Paint him in such a way as to suggest Necrodermis. Ask your Eldar-playing opponent if Khaine and The Burning One were ever actually seen in the same place at the same time (prior to the sharding thing, after which nothing can be proved).

I'm also thinking of the potential hilarity that is Orikan the Diviner with a Writhing Worldscape C'tan, but that's another thing to consider with more points, I think.

[Ricky S]

Ok time to post up what I have written. I have tried to be as objective as possible with this codex review but please feel free to point out any glaring mistakes.

Spoiler

Battlesuit Armoury

Spoiler

Airbursting Fragmentation Projector: This is a handy weapon for taking out lightly armoured infantry. It can also cause a decent number of kills against marine equivalents as long as you hit enough of them. The biggest strength of this weapon is that it is a large blast and also ignores cover. So for those pesky scout units hiding in terrain you can nuke them from up to 18” away. The weapon also causes pinning thanks to being a barrage weapon. While this is usually useless with the amount of fearless or high leadership out there it occasionally comes in handy.

A common mistake is for people to use the ABFP with flamers. Yes both the weapons ignore cover but the ranges do not sync up. You have a chance of scattering back onto yourself with the weapon but more importantly you will be in charge range which your expensive ABFP does not want to be. It is a nice weapon to have when facing guard equivalents but otherwise it is better left at home. Remember that this is a special issue weapon as well so it is more likely to be seen on your commander which is more reason to not be in charge range.

Burst cannon: The work horse of the tau (theoretically). It is a decent weapon pushing out 3 strength 5 shots a turn. It is a powerful weapon compared to other armies but for the tau strength 5 shots are extremely common. So there is little reason to equip your limited crisis suits with a weapon that is readily available throughout the rest of your army. The best place to take burst cannons is not on a crisis suit but on a stealth suit. They excel at using burst cannons.

Due to the low BS of the tau burst cannons are a bit of a waste on crisis suits as you will only hit half the time and when you do hit will not have the penetrating power of other weapons available. Combined with markerlight hits the burst cannon can become devastating but in that case you might as well just use firewarriors instead.

Cyclic Ion Blaster: A rapid firing weapon capable of laying waste to light infantry and with luck kill some heavier infantry as well. It is best kept on a commander unit for the increased BS ensuring more shots hit.

The main drawback of the weapon is the low strength. Even against guardsmen you will only be wounding on 4’s. This is somewhat negated by having basically the rending rule, any rolls of a 6 count as ap1. It also has a decent AP of 4 allowing you to kill units like Necrons while in the open. It is a decent weapon but is usually overshadowed by more common tau weapons such as plasma rifles. It is brutal anti infantry when combined with the airbursting fragmentation projector but you will be completely unable to defeat heavier infantry.

Flamer: A dirt cheap weapon that can easily lay waste to hordes of infantry. This is the same weapon as all the imperial forces have. It ignores cover and can hit a large number of models. Good value for money and the only flame weapon in the tau codex. It works well as a back up weapon or when you want to be aggressive with your suits.

Fusion Blaster: A melta by a different name. It is slightly more expensive than the imperial version but does the same job. It is a wonderful weapon especially when combined with a plasma gun. With the prevalence of mech armies around you can never have enough high strength weapons. The only drawback is the low BS of the suits.

Missile Pod: Strength 7 ap 4, 2 shots. A good weapon for sure. It has an effective range of 42” thanks to the jump of the suits it is mounted on. It provides decent anti light armour and can take down monsters with relative ease. This should be one of the most numerous weapons mounted on your crisis suits. It has so many applications and is effective in some role against any army you will play against. Against heavy infantry armies it has a high strength and against horde armies it has 2 shots and ap 4. It is most commonly seen in unison with a...

Plasma Rifle: Now here is one of the two weapons the tau are known for. It has a high strength of 6 and more importantly it is AP2. They are also rapid fire so the closer you get the more damage you will do. If you are ever stuck for what weapon to take make sure you have this first.

Same as with the missile pod you will always find a use for a plasma rifle against any army. It is highly feared by marine players and rightly so. It doesn’t get hot which is another bonus to taking this weapon. The single point of strength lost over its imperial neighbours doesn’t matter in the slightest as the extra point of strength only really helps in destroying vehicles which is one of the things tau already excel at.

Twin Linking your weapons: Ok so you can twin link any of the weapons in the codex but it is only useful for a couple of weapons. Flamers, Missile Pods and Plasma Rifles all work well when twinlinked. Flamers give you a really cheap weapon system which is almost guaranteed to kill all guard equivalent models you touch thanks to re-rolling to wound.

Twin Linked Missile pods are more accurate hitting 75% of the time and with the long range allows you to shoot away at your opponent without needing support from marker lights.

Twin Linked Plasma is expensive but gives you a better change of killing your opponent. The biggest problem for tau is ballistic skill and this negates it. This is best used with hard wired multitrackers and fusion blasters. It all but guarantees your suit will hit with its shots. If you are running pathfinders then don’t worry about twin linking plasma and save some points.

Twin Linked Burst Cannons: Complete waste. Unless you are modelling or doing it for fluff completely avoid.

Twin Linked Fusion Blaster: It only has a range of 12” so unless you are deep striking you are wasting a lot of points trying to get into position. If you have taken another weapon system as your third hard point deploying on the table can be a good idea. Even when deepstriking there is the chance you will mishap or scatter outside of the melta range of the weapon.

I ran a unit of these when I first started playing until I realised they were expensive, unreliable and just couldn’t compete with other weapons options. The main problem is that you only get one shot from this twin linked weapon. Even if you hit with it the amount of invulnerable saves out there it doesn’t guarantee that you will kill your target.

Battlesuit Support Systems:

Spoiler

Advanced Stabilisation system: Great buy. For ten points you can allow your broadside teams to move and fire. This means you can always threaten enemy armour even if they try and hide from you. The other useful situation is when you have a dawn of war deployment.

You can move onto the table and fire in the same turn. One important thing to remember is that because they are slow and purposeful if you roll a 1 you will not be able to deploy them as the base they are equipped with is more than 1”. They will instead go back into reserve. Also remember that your crisis suits are already relentless so this is only useful on broadsides.

Blacksun Filter: A cheap third hardpoint option. It is useful with twin linked missile pods as it can allow first turn shots during dawn of war deployment. It is also useful on twin linked flamers as it lowers the cost. Another useful place to put one is on your broadside team so that you can take down enemy vehicles on the first turn in dawn of war (assuming you have taken the Advanced stabilisation system as well).

Command and Control Node: Useful last edition but does absolutely nothing this edition. Take only for fluff/modelling purposes. Apparently it will be useful again in the next codex so wait and see.

Drone Controller: Free but you must purchase a drone or two to go with it. Necessary for taking shield drones.

Multi-tracker: The best battlesuit support system. It allows two weapons to be fired in the same shooting phase. This is the most common support system as it allows you to pour fire into your enemy.

Positional relay: An interesting bit of kit. It allows you to hold a unit back in reserve until you want it to come in. It is useful when playing with a farsight bomb or another devastating unit. The important thing to remember is that the model with this system must already be on the table for it to work. So give it to a shas’el and deploy him out of line of sight. On the turn it is used however no other units may be deployed from reserve.

The other use for this item is bringing in a cheap unit such as gun drones to hold back your reserves so they have more chance of all arriving at once. Despite only needing a 2+ to come in I have seen many games where 1’s have been rolled each turn. If you are an unlucky person you should avoid this upgrade.

Shield Generator: For 20pts you can get a 4+ invulnerable save. It is a good choice but quickly racks up the points of your units. It is best used on the commander of your army. For other units shield drones will be more useful as they provide ablative wounds as well and are 5 pts cheaper.

Target Lock: Allows you to split fire between two different units. Great on a farsight bomb or if you have a fusion blaster you want to target at vehicle while the rest of the unit fires at infantry. It can also be used to fire at two units and then pick the one you want to assault. Remember though you have to assault the one you fired at, not the one the target locked system fired at.

Targetting array: For 10pts you can get an extra point of BS. This is great on your commander and bodyguard but otherwise is a bit of a waste of points. If you want better BS use your markerlight hits. The points will build up quickly especially if you run a lot of crisis suits. Extremely useful on a shas’el as it allows you to get the BS5 of a shas’O while saving 15pts.

Vectored Retro Thrusters: An interesting option which allows you to jump out of combat. This can only be used on single member teams. The best way to use this is to jump out of combat in your opponents phase and then shoot again in your phase. Against certain armies it is very useful for tying up units at a time. Anything without a power weapon is your prime target. Tactical Squads, pathfinders, guard units, devastators are all ideal units to tie up for a turn before jumping out of the combat, shooting and assaulting something else. It only works half the time due to the low initiative of most tau.

Battle Suit Wargear

Spoiler

Bonding Knife: A useful bit of kit which allows units to regroup even if below half strength. It is great for crisis teams with drones (because the drones still count to the units half strength) or footslogging firewarriors (to keep them on the objective). On three man crisis suits it is a bit of a waste because you are only below half strength when you reach 1 model. A farsight list will get free bonding knives for every member who has the option of taking one.

Ejection System: Fun bit of gear that allows your commander to survive being shot from non insta killing wounds. If you lose your last wound to shooting your ejection system will activate and you can place your commander model on the table. Your commander will now have regular firewarrior stats, no armour and a pulse pistol but still counts as jump infantry. This would be useful if all shots that killed him activated the ejection system. This system can only be taken by single member teams so is generally useless.

Failsafe Detonator: If your unit flees this member will stay in the fight and blow himself up. For the greater good. This is a sure way of keeping your commander alive even if he is beaten in combat. Never put this on your commander though as you will lose him if you flee from a fight. On a bodyguard is the best place for it, especially in the bodyguard of the farsight bomb to keep this massive unit alive. The blast itself is STR8 AP- so it has the possibility of killing enemy characters which is useful.

Gun drone: Ablative wound with a twin linked pinning weapon. Not a bad choice and fairly cheap. It adds more shots to your deadly crisis suit teams. If you do take them make sure you have a bonding knife. Taking a lot of gun drones will increase your units footprint when deepstriking so ensure adequate space when deepstriking.

Iridium Armour: Gives your suit a 2+ armour save and makes him a lot more survivable. You can only take one per army though. Best given to your commander to keep him alive. It does reduce your assault jump to a D6 but depending on your weapon systems this shouldn’t be a problem. Iridium armour works well with the vectored retro thrusters as you can survive for longer in combat.

Hard Wired Systems: Same as the regular system but doesn’t take up a hard point.

Marker Drone: For 30pts you get a drone that can use a markerlight. It is expensive but it does allow you to use the hit from the markerlight for the squad it is attached to. Great in apocalypse games but less useful in regular games simply because of the expense.

Shield Drone: 15pts so it is cheaper than taking a shield generator and gives you an extra wound. Useful against shooting more than in combat. It is nearly mandatory that you take them on your broadside team if you want them to survive to pop tanks, especially when there is little terrain. Personally I take two on my broadside teams and two on my commander’s unit.

Stimulent injectors: Gives you feel no pain. Increases survivability of your suit. You can only take one per army so like iridium armour this is best left for your commander. Combined with iridium armour, a shield and placed on a shas’O you have a very hard to kill suit.

HQ

Spoiler

Shas’O: This is your most capable warrior and leader. He has the highest WS of all crisis suits except for farsight, better BS than a marine and has 4 wounds to boot. The Shas’O also has the highest leadership in your army with a solid 10. Combined with a few upgrades your Shas’O can become nearly impervious to small arms fire and almost impossible to kill in close combat as long as your opponent doesn’t have a powerweapon. It is better trying to keep your commander out of combat but even in combat he won’t do badly against regular troops. The first thing you should be equipping him with is a plasma gun to take advantage of his high BS.

A commander is able to take bodyguards and this is one of the ways that you can get more than the 9 crisis suits available in the elites section. Bodyguard provide ablative wounds and allow you to play wound shenanigans as long as they are armed differently. The other option which has been pretty popular in my local area has been to create a suicide commander. Take an individual commander and deep strike him in to create problems for your enemy. He probably wont last long but can be a real nuisance by knocking out tanks or tying units up in combat.

Shas’El: For 25 points less than the Shas’O you lose a point of BS, 1 wound and are now only leadership 9. In every other respect he is exactly the same. The main point is the extra point of BS as your suits are designed to shoot. You can either pay 25pts more for a Shas’O and keep the extra hard point for your suit or keep the Shas’El and buy a targeting array for 10pts or forgo the targeting array and just have BS 4. A shas’el is a better option for a suicide unit because it is cheaper but for a regular commander a Shas’O is usually the way to go.

Ethereal: Never used one, never want to use one. I hate everything about them. The fluff, the models, the rules. The only redeeming feature is the honour guard with the extra point of BS. He can take an honour blade to make him better in combat but why the hell would you want to be in combat? He does allow you to re-roll morale checks which is great if you are being shot at but awful if you are in close combat.

In the shooting phase you want your units to stay in the fight so they can keep on pouring fire into the enemy. In close combat you want your units to flee or be destroyed so you can shoot at the enemy again in your shooting phase. He can make your units fearless which is great against shooting but if you are in combat is awful as your will undoubtedly lose combat and then suffer more casualties to fearless saves and not flee at the same time.

The worst thing about them though is if they are killed all your tau units must take a morale check. I have seen literally half a tau army flee thanks to this. He worked better in the last edition where gunline armies were viable but now he is less useful.

The only time I would consider taking him is in an apocalypse game where you can have more than one so if one is killed you can re-roll the morale test and gain preferred enemy.

Elite

Spoiler

XV8 ‘Crisis’ Battlesuit Team: The only reason to play tau. Seriously talk to anyone who plays tau and they will tell you how much they love the crisis suits. These are the main fighting force of your army and should be equipped as well as you can afford. What makes them great is their ability to Jump in the assault phase. This can allow you to move into rapid fire range and then jump back out of it. Or jump out from behind a building, shoot and then jump back into cover. Used well they are almost impossible to kill.

Their mobility allows you to put them where you need them. They also carry potent weapons. They have the ability to deep strike which adds more options to your army and a mass deepstrike can really threaten your opponent. However if you deep strike that means more turns that you aren’t shooting with your expensive suits so unless you have designed your unit to deepstrike it is probably more advisable to just start them on the board.
Each suit has three hard points with which you can put equipment on. Most people put two weapon systems and a support system but taking three weapons can be a good option if you take a twin linked system and a regular weapon system.

An useful tactic when building your crisis suits is ensuring that each has a different bit of gear. So when you do wound allocations, you can allocate the wounds to each different model separately and thus increase survivability. That way if you have to take nine armour saves on a unit you can roll 3 armour saves for each individual model instead of rolling all 9. So each model will only lose 1 wound on average instead of you taking 3 wounds and having to remove a whole suite. It keeps more firepower around for longer.

An example of this would be
3 man Crisis team:
1 with plasma rifle, missile pod, multitracker
1 with plasma rifle, fusion blaster, multitracker
1 with plasma rifle, missile pod, multitracker, team leader with bonding knife.

Common Builds are:
-Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker (Most popular build out there, useful against everything is a reactive unit designed to get rid of any problems facing your army.)

-Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multi-tracker (with the high prevalence of marine armies the extra high strength low ap shot helps kill them and can threaten tanks as well.)

-Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Mutli-tracker (Anti ork. It has a high amount of shots and can work well against good armour saves as well by forcing them to take more saves)

-Fusion Blaster, Flamer, Target Lock (Good for deepstriking and can put the hurt on either infantry or vehicles)

-Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Flamer (Shoot the enemy from afar and flame anything that gets too close)

-Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Fusion Blaster (Used to take out tanks)

-Twin Linked Flamer, Missile Pod (Useful mainly in deep striking but can demolish light infantry. Once you have flamed a unit you can sit back and fire missiles at the enemy.)

Stealth Team: The place to take burst cannons. They are mobile and with the stealth field generator your opponent will need to roll night fighting each time he tries to shoot at you. This means that only the close units will be able to shoot at your unit. They can tear through light infantry and for 2pts you can take a fusion blaster and threaten tanks as well. Stealth teams work well in larger units as they can throw out more damage but they are effective in smaller units as well. You can take multiple small units and overwhelm your opponent with targets to shoot at.

Deepstriking the multiple small units can be a good idea. They will have a very small footprint on the table and a lucky fusion shot can end the game for a vehicle.

They are good in assault against non power weapon units. They have the infiltrate rule as well which can be used to take an objective early in the game. They do take an elite slot away from crisis suits so think carefully about what you want in your army.

Troops

Spoiler

Firewarriors: A must have in your army. No they are not good but you must take at least one unit because the codex says so. They have good rifles with long range but are bad shots. They are expensive for what they do which is sit on objectives. You need a devilfish for them if you want to use them aggressively and then you need marker light support to ensure they can hit their enemy. This all adds up to an expensive unit. Bonding knives are almost essential to keep your unit on the objective. Or take a unit of 6 firewarriors and keep them inside their devilfish for the entire game.

Photon Grenades: Reduces the enemy’s attacks by one on the turn they charge. Useful against units that firewarriors can beat in close combat which is few. Otherwise you want your unit to flee/be destroyed so you can shoot at them in the next shooting phase.

EMP Grenades: Can turn your firewarriors into a decent anti tank unit. Useful against dreadnoughts but it is expensive. With railguns in your army you shouldn’t have need for them but it is a nice upgrade to have. Great in apocalypse games.

Devilfish: One of the best transports around. A shame it can only really transport firewarriors. It can transport pathfinders but you will want them in a stationary position so they can take advantage of their markerlights. With disruption pods you will have a 4+ save against all shooting from over 12” away. A disruption pod is mandatory because of how useful it is and all other vehicle upgrades are optional but can be very useful as well. Be careful not to spend too many points on upgrades.

The gun drones can be dropped off to block assaulting units or provide cover. When used in this way they do provide extra kill points so people generally only use them in this way in objective games. However if your devilfish is shot down it no longer drops the gun drones off as if they were embarked troops. They now count as destroyed which is even more reason to take a devilfish.

Kroot: Cheap and plentiful. The chickens of the 40k universe, they seriously look like chickens! They are ok in combat if you outnumber your enemy by about 3 to 1. The best use for them is not to throw them into combat but to instead sit them in a piece of terrain and shooting at anything that gets close.

Another use for them is to outflank and take out units such as devastators. For 140pts you can take 20 which will be able to take out devastators with ease or guardsmen hunkered down. The 6+ save they can get will only be useful in combat so is generally considered a waste. Rather rely on the cover save you should have by being in terrain. If you can deploy them in wooded areas to gain +1 to their cover save. Watch out for flamers as these will roast kroot with ease.

They have the option of taking kroot hounds or krootox which can make for a very powerful close combat unit (for tau) but you cannot outflank then which is one of the best abilities that the kroot have. Because you lose the ability to outflank I have not seen a single krootox ever used. They are pretty cool models though.

Fast Attack

Spoiler

Gun Drones: Fairly cheap and have pinning shots. You should have plenty of them available for use because each box of firewarriors or crisis suit you buy will have 2. Best used when deepstriking to pin enemies in place so they are only useful against certain armies. Gun drones can make a jump move in the assault phase after assaulting which is something to remember. They are an average unit usually taken only until people can afford to buy better things to fill in the fast attack.

Pathfinders: A Tau’s best friend. They are equipped with markerlights. So for only 12 pts you can get a markerlight which can increase your ballistic skill, reduce cover saves, reduce the leadership for pinning, fire seeker missiles or ignore night fighting. However you must also purchase a devilfish for them. The devilfish is useless for them as their markerlights are heavy weapons so they must be stationary to fire. The devilfish should instead be used for your firewarriors. Pathfinders are the easiest way to get markerlights into your army. They will be targeted early on if your opponent has played against tau before so be sure to deploy them in cover.

Pathfinders can also be equipped with rail rifles to create a quasi sniping unit. Useful against marines and comes with target locks so it doesn’t stop you from firing your markerlights at the units you need.

An interesting thing to remember is that anything (from your army) deepstriking within line of sight of the pathfinders devilfish can make a re-roll to the scatter dice. This allows your deepstriking squads a little piece of mind and makes them more reliable and allows you to position them more aggressively.

Another important thing to remember about markerlights is that the unit that fires them cannot benefit from their own hits. The exception to this is the marker drone.

Piranha: Fast Skimmers and a fusion blaster. What more can you ask for from a fast attack slot. They are great for popping vehicles or contesting objectives at the end of the game. Another fun thing to do is attach Flechette launchers to one and fly it at your opponents unit of ork boyz. Watch as half his unit is destroyed. They can be used effectively to create line of sight blockers and provide cover saves. Another way of using them is taking a large unit and then deploying the gun drones for another unit to play around with on the table. When deployed in this manner the gun drones do give an extra kill point.

Piranhas are useful for carrying extra seeker missiles for your army assuming you make a combined army approach.

Vespid: Cool idea but poor in reality. They have a single 12” ap3 shot each. They are very fragile and while they are initiative 5 they have no grenades to take advantage of it against the only units they can actually beat in close combat which is guardmen and other tau. They have fleet as well so they can get into combat faster which isn’t useful on such a fragile unit. They are the price of a marine with none of the benefits. Avoid.

Heavy Support

Spoiler

XV88 Broadside Battlesuit Team: The heavy hitters of the tau army. These suits carry the fearsome rail gun which is the best anti tank weapon in the game. They have a respectable 2+ armour save and can get ablative wounds in the form of shield drones who greatly increase the survival rate of the broadsides. A unit of these is almost mandatory in a tau army. Their tank popping potential is just too good to pass up. If you can, try to deploy these in cover with the best view of the battlefield.

If you lack cover, Gun drones can be used to make portable terrain for them. Jump out of their way in the movement phase. The broadsides shoot and then the drones jump back in front of them. Broadsides are very easy to play. Simply point their guns at the biggest thing the enemy has and watch as it disappears. The advanced stabilisation system is a good choice for broadsides as it negates their one weakness of not being able to move and shoot.

Sniper Drone Team: 3 Rail Rifle shots and a marker light. Not bad. They can take 3 units of these as a single heavy support choice. They aren’t optimum units but they aren’t bad either and they will put the hurt on marine units and light vehicles.

Hammerhead Gun ship: Another railgun to add to your army. Hurrah! Despite the railguns potent anti tank ability, hammerheads are better suited to anti infantry. With either two burst cannons or a Smart missile system and a large blast strength 6 ap 4 shot it can destroy units at a time. The railgun should only be used against vehicles if your broadsides fail to kill it. It is important to remember that the railgun comes with both the solid shot and the submunitions shot. You do not need to choose one or the other.

The ion cannon is an interesting choice. It is far cheaper than the railgun but is only a 3 shot strength 7 weapon. It has neither the blast of the submunitions or the anti tank ability of the solid shot. It does however have ap3 so it can kill marines quite easily. Also because of the 3 shots it can destroy light vehicles quite easily. The question remains, why use a hammerhead with ion cannon when you can use a crisis suits with missile pods. Generally a hammerhead is wasted, if it uses an ion cannon, against most armies.

With its FA of 13 and the disruption pod it should be almost impervious to enemy long range fire. What you will need to watch out for is close range weapons such as meltas. A good upgrade for the hammerhead is the multitracker which allows it to fire one weapon even if it moves 12” and fire all of its weapons even if it moves 6”. This will mean that enemy assaulters will need 6's to hit you in close combat. A key component to the tau is to keep them out of combat and mobile, this upgrade helps them do this.

Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship: Same hull as the hammerhead but comes with 2 markerlights and 6 seeker missiles. Useful if you have enough markerlights and you can fire all of the seeker missiles in a single turn potentially knocking out all of your enemy’s light vehicles in one turn.

In reality the seeker missiles will not always work the way you want them to and they can still miss on the roll of a 1. The two marker lights are useful but pathfinders do a far better job of providing marker hits. It is a good tank but it competes with slots against the hammerhead and broadsides which are both superior to the sky ray.

[lord_khaine]

Well, I've got warriors to spam, so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess what I'm wondering here is whether larger groups that can benefit from a single Lord's Resurrection Orb are worth the risk of a sweeping advance, not to mention that unless I have a second Overlord equivalent, I can't put a Lord and a Cryptek with the same unit.

Well, the best advice i can give to a person starting up a necron army is to get your hands on some wraiths, because they are one of the very few units you have who can pull their weight in cc.

[ZeltArruin]

Originally Posted by CN the Logos

Besides, if they didn't want me to use other models for the multitude of C'tan that are not the Deceiver or Nightbringer, they should release new models.

Multitude meaning two? The Outsider and the Void Dragon, neither of which are active in the known universe?

[CN the Logos]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Well, the best advice i can give to a person starting up a necron army is to get your hands on some wraiths, because they are one of the very few units you have who can pull their weight in cc.

I plan to convert some at some point. I need some claws and tentacles to make it work though, and conversion takes time to do right. I'm hoping Games Workshop is kind enough to release the official new models three (or more, but that's doubtful) to a box rather than in individual blisters. Otherwise I'll be converting them forever: $30 is too much cash for me to shell out for an only slightly larger than person-sized mini I need at least six of.

Originally Posted by ZeltArruin

Multitude meaning two? The Outsider and the Void Dragon, neither of which are active in the known universe?

And the Burning One, and the Endless Swarm, and the Flayer (though he is deader than most of the others). Along with the line that "There may be four [surviving] C'tan, four thousand, or any number in between." There have been retcons, my friend.

Not that I give a damn about 40k's fluff, mind you. If I want to play a wargame for the fluff, I get out Malifaux and try my best to ignore the terminal plot cancer that is the Tyrants. I'm spending money on 40k because (1. it's the one wargame I can always find another player for (who is not my girlfriend) and (2. I like art deco styled robot space Eygptians, and found about 1200 points of them last Christmas vacation for $150. That's why I posted here and not in the fluff thread.

[ZeltArruin]

Originally Posted by CN the Logos

And the Burning One, and the Endless Swarm, and the Flayer (though he is deader than most of the others). Along with the line that "There may be four [surviving] C'tan, four thousand, or any number in between." There have been retcons, my friend.

And as far as I know, the current fluff is exactly 4 in the galaxy that the game is concerned with, not that this is the place to talk about it or any of that.

[CN the Logos]

Originally Posted by ZeltArruin

And as far as I know, the current fluff is exactly 4 in the galaxy that the game is concerned with, not that this is the place to talk about it or any of that.

Possibly, but those four do not include the Void Dragon or the Outsider. I was just looking through my Codex again looking for the major C'tan, and I don't think either of them even get a mention. Meanwhile the Burning One and the Endless Swarm both have Manifestations of Power tied to them with in-game effects. And that's about as far as I care about it.

Please, if you're going to get my hopes up by quoting my posts, address my actual concern, which is putting together an army list at 500 to 1000 points.

[Zorg]

Forget GW vs Chapterhouse, it looks like we might be getting a throwdown between GW and EA.

[Tome]

Originally Posted by ZeltArruin

And as far as I know, the current fluff is exactly 4 in the galaxy that the game is concerned with, not that this is the place to talk about it or any of that.

That's the old fluff mate.

The new Necron codex retcons the C'Tan considerably.

[ZeltArruin]

Originally Posted by Tome

That's the old fluff mate.

The new Necron codex retcons the C'Tan considerably.

Aw man, that's what I get. This is just like Eltharion the Blind.

[lord_khaine]

I plan to convert some at some point. I need some claws and tentacles to make it work though, and conversion takes time to do right. I'm hoping Games Workshop is kind enough to release the official new models three (or more, but that's doubtful) to a box rather than in individual blisters. Otherwise I'll be converting them forever: $30 is too much cash for me to shell out for an only slightly larger than person-sized mini I need at least six of.

Well, i found out that with a little green stuff and a sepulcer guard (undead fantasy unit, comes in units of 3), then you can make a decent looking Wraith, though i guess it would be smart to first see whats in the second wave of necrons, that are suposedly comming soonish.

Also, i would recomend you take a look at Doom scythe conversions, those things pack so much firepower its allmost unfair

[Silus]

Question: Building a Guard Sentinel at the moment (Seriously, I have the pieces strewn out next to my laptop as I type this), and I was wondering, what is a good weapon to give one?

If it matters based on the army makeup, I currently have a Command Squad (Commander w/ Bolt Pistol + Power Weapon, Medic, Standard Bearer, Vox and Heavy Flamer), a Platoon Command Squad (Commander + 4 Snipers), and a Vet Squad (Missile Launcher + x3 Grenade Launchers). Also have four flamers and two meltaguns that need squads.

Was leaning towards an Autocannon 'cause, if I remember, it's good against both heavy troops and light vehicles. Heavy Flamer is out as I'm thinking of taking two full things of Hellhounds (One with Infernos and one with the Melta Cannons).

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, if you're going to have sniper rifles on one of your command squads, you have it backwards; the guys with low BS should have the heavy flamer and the ones with high BS should have the rifles. As for the Sentinel, I'd say a lascannon since you have nothing else high strength except the meltas, which need to be very close. Actually, even better than that, I'd say to get some magnets so you can have all of them.

[Silus]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Well, if you're going to have sniper rifles on one of your command squads, you have it backwards; the guys with low BS should have the heavy flamer and the ones with high BS should have the rifles. As for the Sentinel, I'd say a lascannon since you have nothing else high strength except the meltas, which need to be very close. Actually, even better than that, I'd say to get some magnets so you can have all of them.

Well the command squads can go either way I think. I've not set anything 100% in stone yet. I just have two squads of 5 that are command oriented.

And I don't think I will be putting the Sentinel together 100% until this Saturday (Going to a model painting thing at a local gaming store). Wanna get the driver painted before I glue'em in.

Edit: Also, since I don't even have the cabin built yet, would Scout or Armored be better? And can't only one type have a certain type of weapons?

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Silus

Well the command squads can go either way I think. I've not set anything 100% in stone yet. I just have two squads of 5 that are command oriented.

And I don't think I will be putting the Sentinel together 100% until this Saturday (Going to a model painting thing at a local gaming store). Wanna get the driver painted before I glue'em in.

Edit: Also, since I don't even have the cabin built yet, would Scout or Armored be better? And can't only one type have a certain type of weapons?

An armored Sentinel can have a plasma cannon. There's no other difference in weapon choices.

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Silus

Well the command squads can go either way I think. I've not set anything 100% in stone yet. I just have two squads of 5 that are command oriented.

And I don't think I will be putting the Sentinel together 100% until this Saturday (Going to a model painting thing at a local gaming store). Wanna get the driver painted before I glue'em in.

Edit: Also, since I don't even have the cabin built yet, would Scout or Armored be better? And can't only one type have a certain type of weapons?

Always go Scout Sentinels. Scouts and Move Through Cover are both great, and the extra cost of the Armoured Sentinels significantly outweighs the added protection, even before considering the advantages with regards to Outflank and Scout moves.

As far as weapons go, you're usually best off with a Multilaser or Autocannon. The multilaser is among the best all-round guns in the book, being excellent against nearly all infantry and most transports to boot, while the Autocannon performs slightly better against the tougher transports and infantry with a 4+ save. The more expensive guns are generally better employed on a less fragile unit; Vendettas and your Platoon squad of choice do Lascannons way better than Sentinels, and Armoured Sentinels with Plasma Cannons are points better spent on an Infantry Squad with Plasma Gun and the heavy weapon of your choice. Besides, three Scout Sentinels with Multilasers is a measly 105 points for 9 S6 shots that can Outflank and aren't too bothered by terrain. What's not to love?

[hamishspence]

Originally Posted by CN the Logos

Possibly, but those four do not include the Void Dragon or the Outsider.

White Dwarf 385 (Jan 2012) does list the various named C'tan that "if you want powers fitting for specific C'tan" can be represented by giving your Shard a specific pair of abilities.

page 62

Crafting your C'tan
You should always feel free to mix and match C'tan powers as you see fit - the Shards are creatures of godlike ability, and can pretty much do whatever they want. However, if you want powers fitting for specific C'tan, I'd recommend the following:

Mephet'ran, the Deceiver:
Grand Illusion, Swarm of Spirit Dust
Aza'gorod, the Nightbringer:
Gaze of Death, Transdimensional Thunderbolt
Iash'uddra, the Endless Swarm:
Swarm of Spirit Dust, Writhing Worldscape
Og'driada, the Arisen:
Pyreshards, Sentient Singularity
Tsara'noga, the Outsider:
Transdimensional Thunderbolt, Time's Arrow
Yggra'nya, the Shaper
Moulder of Worlds, Writhing Worldscape
Nyadra'zatha, the Burning One
Lord of Fire, Pyreshards
Mag'ladroth, the Void Dragon
Entropic Touch, Sentient Singularity
Llandu'gor, the Flayer
N/A - He's been completely destroyed!

As you can see, there are plenty of other combinations, and a potentially limitless number of C'tan Shards loose in the galaxy. This is a great opportunity to let your imagination run wild and hone your conversion skills!

[CN the Logos]

Originally Posted by hamishspence

White Dwarf 385 (Jan 2012) does list the various named C'tan that "if you want powers fitting for specific C'tan" can be represented by giving your Shard a specific pair of abilities.

...I didn't say that they no longer existed, only that they weren't considered important enough to get mentioned in the codex. And I only said that in an attempt to end a conversation about fluff that I am really not at all interested in. Seriously, if it doesn't involve a force org. chart, wargear selection, and point values, I don't give a damn.

No one here is obligated to help me, I'm not that entitled. But responding to my posts that say I'm not really interested in fluff (beyond the basics, I mean; I wouldn't enjoy it if there weren't some aesthetic appeal and pandering to my inner teenager-with-power-fantasies) and am just starting this game because I wanted another game to play at my LGS and thought robot zombies would be cool with, "You're wrong about [insert minor piece of fluff here]" is missing the point by a pretty large margin.

[hamishspence]

Going back to your question:

[quote=CN the Logos;13048984]Does "Monstrous Creature (character)" mean it counts as an independent character? Or does my melee C'tan just have to stick to cover as well as it can and pray it doesn't die before making it to combat?/QUOTE]

I checked the FAQ/Errata article- it didn't mention whether they do or not.

[Renegade Paladin]

It is not an Independent Character. The (character) designation means the same thing as Unique in older codexes; it means you can't take more than one.

[Squark]

Quick question: How easy is it to use the Space Wolves pack to create a Rune Priest? Because I don't particularly like working with Resin.


Also:GW is releasing new transfer sheets. As someone who was rather annoyed at having to paint Logan Grimnar's Great Company Symbol the wrong colors*, I have to say I'm rather pleased with this announcement.




*Technically, it is also permissable to paint your great company's symbol with your pack marking's coloration. But now you can paint Logan's symbol correctly (A White wolf on a black backround, instead of a black wolf on a white/yellow/red background. And if you were painting Bloodclaws, well... Too bad for you). Yay! And 40 transfers is going to be more than enough for my entire force, plus all the other stuff.