"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[Particle_Man]

Originally Posted by Wookie-ranger

if i would evaluate armor rules realistically and not for the game element (that they are) i would laugh, a lot, and keep laughing, until i die. because armor simply don't consider the weapon being used.
If i wear a chain shirt, a samurai sword or nihonto would do nearly no damage (just like a most slashing weapons) but a quarter staff or a rapier would hurt the same as without.
but if i would be wearing a full-plate most arrows would simply bounce off (eventhough bolts from a heavy crossbow can still go through); and unless you are prone or cannot move nearly any piercing weapon would do no damage at at all. while a heavy mace might knock me to the ground, and therefore vulnerable to said piercing attacks, that's why late medieval and renascence always carried a long slim dagger (to pock the left armpit).

if you think about it, some forms of armor (not including magical armor) pretty much negate some types of attack, while at the same time being nearly useless against others.
in the real world that is.

Well maybe you would like the 1st ed AD&D weapon vs. armor type tables.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fixing posting glitch.

Also those tables sounds like a book-keeping nightmare

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse

Fixing posting glitch.

Also those tables sounds like a book-keeping nightmare

Sounds like that to me too, though it might have just been separate defenses for each type of armor for slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning, which wouldn't be too much.

If it's like the Table Of Many Slightly Different Pointy Things To Stick On The End Of A Stick (also known as That Which Brought Us The Glaive-Glaive-Glaive-Guisarme-Glaive), I agree 100%.

[nedz]

Originally Posted by Kazyan

...Is there a way to get the worms back in the can?

Well they are fine so that makes them easier to grapple, and the bigger you are the easier it is.
Colossal creatures get +32 to grapple Fine ones, assuming they can see them.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Sounds like that to me too, though it might have just been separate defenses for each type of armor for slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning, which wouldn't be too much.

If it's like the Table Of Many Slightly Different Pointy Things To Stick On The End Of A Stick (also known as That Which Brought Us The Glaive-Glaive-Glaive-Guisarme-Glaive), I agree 100%.

Only three types of armor? Heh. Someone's not an old-school player.

Behold! Weapon vs. AC adjustment tables, not for the faint of heart!

Spoiler

[VGLordR2]

Ready Actions. They were so good in theory, but they are so open to crazy things. Like the Villager Railgun. Or infinite movement.

[TypoNinja]

Originally Posted by VGLordR2

Ready Actions. They were so good in theory, but they are so open to crazy things. Like the Villager Railgun. Or infinite movement.

I've never heard of the villager railgun. Is that the trick where an arbitrary large line of people ready an action to pass an object offered to them and you move a melon across a continent in one round or something else?

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by TypoNinja

I've never heard of the villager railgun. Is that the trick where an arbitrary large line of people ready an action to pass an object offered to them and you move a melon across a continent in one round or something else?

Yes. It's more commonly known as the Commoner Railgun in my experience.

Of course, RAW-wise it doesn't actually function as a railgun, but only as near-instantaneous transportation. (The projectile simply drops to the ground at the end of the chain with no inertia to speak of.)

[VGLordR2]

Originally Posted by tuggyne

Yes. It's more commonly known as the Commoner Railgun in my experience.

Of course, RAW-wise it doesn't actually function as a railgun, but only as near-instantaneous transportation. (The projectile simply drops to the ground at the end of the chain with no inertia to speak of.)

Yeah, but it's so much more fun to imagine that inertia exists in D&D.

[Ksheep]

Originally Posted by VGLordR2

Yeah, but it's so much more fun to imagine that inertia exists in D&D.

"OK, the commoners move the mellon 6 miles in 6 seconds and let go. The mellon drops to the ground at the last commoner's feet."

"But it should have inertia! It should keep going and have the power to level a mountain."

"Fine… by the time the mellon gets to the 10th commoner, his arms get shorn off and he bleeds out. The following *roll* 8 commoners get taken out from bone shards. The rest flee in terror."

[Flickerdart]

Logically, the object in question accelerates and then decelerates to an arbitrary speed every time it's handed off, so that while it does take no time at all to go through, the end velocity is still nil.

[Mystify]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Logically, the object in question accelerates and then decelerates to an arbitrary speed every time it's handed off, so that while it does take no time at all to go through, the end velocity is still nil.

That was what I was going to say.

[TypoNinja]

Originally Posted by Ksheep

"OK, the commoners move the mellon 6 miles in 6 seconds and let go. The mellon drops to the ground at the last commoner's feet."

"But it should have inertia! It should keep going and have the power to level a mountain."

"Fine… by the time the mellon gets to the 10th commoner, his arms get shorn off and he bleeds out. The following *roll* 8 commoners get taken out from bone shards. The rest flee in terror."

That's hilarious.

[VGLordR2]

Buy a ladder for five copper. Remove all the rungs, and you are left with two ten-foot poles, valued at two silver apiece.

Buy a 100-page spellbook for 15gp. Remove each page and sell them individually for four silver apiece.

Buy a Spiked Chain for 25gp. Remove the spikes. Sell the chain for 30gp.

Buy a Club (free). Sell as Firewood for 1cp.

Instead of Trail Rations, buy Chunks of Meat (or, if you're really brave, horse feed). Both are cheaper and lighter than Trail Rations.

Buy a Glass Wine Bottle for 2gp. Buy a Pitcher of Wine for 2sp. Empty the pitcher into the bottle. Sell as Bottled Wine for 10gp.

[Ksheep]

Originally Posted by VGLordR2

Buy a Glass Wine Bottle for 2gp. Buy a Pitcher of Wine for 2sp. Empty the pitcher into the bottle. Sell as Bottled Wine for 10gp.

The cork is OBVIOUSLY worth 7gp, 8sp. Either that, or it's the wax covering said cork.

[Mystify]

Originally Posted by Ksheep

The cork is OBVIOUSLY worth 7gp, 8sp. Either that, or it's the wax covering said cork.

Its clearly the difference between box wine and a real wine.

[Flickerdart]

Originally Posted by VGLordR2

Buy a ladder for five copper. Remove all the rungs, and you are left with two ten-foot poles, valued at two silver apiece.

Your pole has holes in it, and thus none of the strength of a proper pole. No sale.

Buy a 100-page spellbook for 15gp. Remove each page and sell them individually for four silver apiece.

Your book's pages are 2.6 times smaller than a standard sheet of paper. No sale.

Buy a Spiked Chain for 25gp. Remove the spikes. Sell the chain for 30gp.

Obviously different things, considering the 8lb difference that can't be all spikes. No sale. Plus, the amount of effort required to weld off the spikes isn't worth 5gp.

Buy a Club (free). Sell as Firewood for 1cp.

Wrong consistency for burning. No sale.

Instead of Trail Rations, buy Chunks of Meat (or, if you're really brave, horse feed). Both are cheaper and lighter than Trail Rations.

Spoilage. No sale.

Buy a Glass Wine Bottle for 2gp. Buy a Pitcher of Wine for 2sp. Empty the pitcher into the bottle. Sell as Bottled Wine for 10gp.

A bottle of common wine is not a bottle of fine wine. No sale.

[Barstro]

Originally Posted by VGLordR2

Buy a ladder for five copper. Remove all the rungs, and you are left with two ten-foot poles, valued at two silver apiece.

Buy a 100-page spellbook for 15gp. Remove each page and sell them individually for four silver apiece.

Buy a Spiked Chain for 25gp. Remove the spikes. Sell the chain for 30gp.

Buy a Club (free). Sell as Firewood for 1cp.

Instead of Trail Rations, buy Chunks of Meat (or, if you're really brave, horse feed). Both are cheaper and lighter than Trail Rations.

Buy a Glass Wine Bottle for 2gp. Buy a Pitcher of Wine for 2sp. Empty the pitcher into the bottle. Sell as Bottled Wine for 10gp.

All those increases in price are for work product. It takes time, effort, and tools (with related upkeep costs) to alter those items. (Take a minnow (free--ish), raise it to a full sized tuna, and sell it for $5.00 per slice as sushi)

And, as stated by another poster, your end-products aren't the same as the titles you have given them.

[VGLordR2]

I meant for this to be humorous, but if you insist...

Your pole has holes in it, and thus none of the strength of a proper pole. No sale.

Fine, then pick up a large-sized quarterstaff for free. Since there's no specified length for a quarterstaff as necessary.

Your book's pages are 2.6 times smaller than a standard sheet of paper. No sale.

There are no specifications for the sizes of paper or spellbooks. If you must insist, even with a reduction, you will end up with a profit of 38sp.

Obviously different things, considering the 8lb difference that can't be all spikes. No sale. Plus, the amount of effort required to weld off the spikes isn't worth 5gp.

You win this one. I didn't pay attention to the weights of the different chains. Also, the Spiked Chain was very different from what I had imagined.

Wrong consistency for burning. No sale.

The club is literally a hunk of wood that you pick up off of the ground. Burning consistency varies.

Spoilage. No sale.

This was not meant to be sold. It's a cheaper option to the normally accepted Trail Rations on short adventures. It's not like anyone should care what a fictional character eats, as long as it's food.

A bottle of common wine is not a bottle of fine wine. No sale.

The only distinguishing factor between common wine and fine wine (in the PHB) is the container.

Conclusion:
My arguments will not hold up to strict RAW. They only work if one assumes that Spellbooks have paper, or that a Quarterstaff is essentially the same as a pole. Also, none of this will hold up to a DM saying "I'm right because I am". Finally, this would never be used in gameplay. No sane person would even try it. This was intended as a humorous interpretation of the prices in the PHB, and nothing more.

[Myou]

Originally Posted by Ksheep

"OK, the commoners move the mellon 6 miles in 6 seconds and let go. The mellon drops to the ground at the last commoner's feet."

"But it should have inertia! It should keep going and have the power to level a mountain."

"Fine… by the time the mellon gets to the 10th commoner, his arms get shorn off and he bleeds out. The following *roll* 8 commoners get taken out from bone shards. The rest flee in terror."

It won't be a 'friend' by the time you're done with it.

You probably meant 'melon'.

[Roguenewb]

How about the one where a commoner is killed by a house cat? How have their been 21 pages and no one mentioned that commoners are almost always killed by house cats?! Laying down elephants have a ranged touch of 12, meaning that a level 1 random elf wizard (dex 12) has only a 50/50 chance of literally hitting the broadside of a barn from next to it.

And the best one of the hilarious knowledges we missed is that according to the general rules for knowledge checks, Know (Nobility and Royalty) includes family trees. Good luck Bob the Commoner, knowing who your mom and grandma are.

[Amphetryon]

It's as if the designers don't like cats. Also, Holy Server Errors, Batman!

[Roguenewb]

Yeah, these servers freaking hate me....

[Agent 451]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Wrong consistency for burning. No sale.

I've never come across wood that couldn't be burned before, care to enlighten us?

[Ksheep]

Originally Posted by Agent 451

I've never come across wood that couldn't be burned before, care to enlighten us?

One thing that comes to mind would be Ironwood or Snakewood (not sure which one, there's 3 types of the one, dozens of the other). Extremely dense, hard to light aflame, but burns for days. Of course, it's fairly rare and hard to work, so saying that the "free" clubs are made of it wouldn't work…

[Agent 451]

Never heard of snakewood, but I can tell you from experience that ironwood (while hard to light) does burn nicely for many, many hours once it reaches ignition.

Depends where you are I guess, there are a lot of ironwood species throughout Africa. And for the club all you really need to do is either pick it up or saw off a branch. Unless you're colossal, in which case you'd just swing the whole tree like a boss.

[Ksheep]

Originally Posted by Agent 451

And for the club all you really need to do is either pick it up or saw off a branch

Yeah, the problem is sawing it off. Most woods known as "Ironwood" are so dense that it'll dull a metal blade fairly quickly. Had a friend once that had a piece about a big around as his wrist, and he ruined two saw blades trying to saw through it…

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Wrong consistency for burning. No sale.

Presumably any wood solid enough to use as a club is good for burning for a decent amount of time. Most clubs are probably oak because it's hard and fairly common. I've burned plenty of club-shaped chunks of oak in my day.

[Jack_Simth]

Originally Posted by Agent 451

I've never come across wood that couldn't be burned before, care to enlighten us?

Firewood and clubs are not the same thing. Just because something burns doesn't make it good firewood. For a weapon, you probably want a particularly hard wood - Oak, maybe - and while yes, it'll burn, for a fire, you want something that'll throw off a decent amount of heat, and will light easily.

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth

Firewood and clubs are not the same thing. Just because something burns doesn't make it good firewood. For a weapon, you probably want a particularly hard wood - Oak, maybe - and while yes, it'll burn, for a fire, you want something that'll throw off a decent amount of heat, and will light easily.

Oak is an awesome firewood. It's a little harder to light than softwoods like pine, but burns hot and long, without much residue.

Now, I can see that extremely green wood would make a good weapon but bad firewood. But seasoned oak? Nope, that's almost completely ideal for both purposes.