Since he first showed up, I got the impression that he is secretly a badass. I wouldn't have thought assassin, but that fits perfectly.
That said, I sincerely wish he is a barbarian. That would be just...perfect. Thog has been removed from the picture, the other kobold just died (who was a rogue, or rogue/ranger - I guess kinda making him a foil for Belkar) and Tarquin is pretending to be a barbarian, so if Kilkil goes up against Belkar or Roy, and they find out that "Thog" is actually Tarquin, but Kilkil is a barbarian (making him a foil for Belkar)...just perfect.
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Think that magic is broken in 3.5? Might I suggest this?
(It's a PDF, give it a sec to load. Despite the title, it is not psionics; it's the magic system you know and love, changed to use spell points instead of slots. Also, every caster is a spontaneous caster, every spell has been rebalanced and many are meshed together.)
"People have been wrong before" is the argument you made.
If you say so.
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Originally Posted by Marlowe
If Kilkil actually does have character levels to make him dangerous, no such problem.
If Tarquin simply doesn't value the life of a mere secretary and was happy to throw in whichever expendable underling Nale wanted for the sixth Linear Guild slot, no such problem either. (And seriously--"Undermine the seriousness of the situation"?) A problem which is based on fan-characterization of Tarquin is not a problem.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
It's got nothing to do with what I say. It's what you did.
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Originally Posted by Kish
If Tarquin simply doesn't value the life of a mere secretary and was happy to throw in whichever expendable underling Nale wanted for the sixth Linear Guild slot, no such problem either. (And seriously--"Undermine the seriousness of the situation"?) A problem which is based on fan-characterization of Tarquin is not a problem.
You're using "fan-characterisation" as support now? OK, so you're voting for the "Yes, Tarquin IS that much of a jerk" option. Duly noted. Why the patronizing tone though?
It's got nothing to do with what I say. It's what you did.
If you say so.
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You're using "fan-characterisation" as support now?
I am saying that "pointlessly endangering a competent underling...undermines Tarquin's character" hinges on fan-characterization. There is not the slightest indication in the comic that Tarquin particularly values the life of anyone who happens to be a competent underling, so it does not undermine his established in the comic character.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
I would say that based on his portrayal in the comic Tarquin doesn't seem to be the sort to do things "pointlessly". But if you say so.
I wonder what qualifies as "pointless" enough for you to consider Tarquin wouldn't do it.
Obviously not forcing women to marry him. Not making arrangements for two mercenaries (...who probably actually qualify as competent former-underlings of his...) who he had a grudge against to have to fight each other. Not sending them a taunting message. Not having runaway slaves burned alive to spell out the word ELAN.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
Kilkil isn't just some random PA Tarquin can lose without worry. He's the Chancellor of the Empire of Blood (that happens to also run on red tape). He's not that readily expendable, unless Tarquin wants bureaucratic headaches for six months after getting back (which he presumes he's going to).
How can he just be cannon-fodder simply for the amusement factor?
Unless you're suggesting Tarquin is sick of the Empire of Blood, and is now moving into the scrapping phase? And we have zero indication of that...
__________________ '~:. F5 Camper With Muscle-Memory Issues .:~'
I'm afraid I don't see the indication that "Tarquin's secretary" is an important enough job for him to be that hard to replace.
Also, Tarquin's attitude toward "dramatic appropriateness" is like Elan's. You say "simply for the amusement factor" as though you were talking about Redcloak; if Nale explained the kobold running gag to Tarquin, then it becomes "for the sake of Tarquin's primary interest." (If he didn't, then it's a question of what he'd do because one of his sons asked him to, and I suspect Kilkil's life still comes out second-best by a very long way in that contest.)
If Kilkil does a paperwork-related job in the Empire of Blood that makes him hard to replace and Tarquin values him enough not to let him die for that, I wonder why Tarquin would have brought him along at all; it's not like the Empire will stop generating paperwork while the general and the head priest are off playing adventurer.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
We don't know what he had to gain concerning the women. Money? Political power and connections? Evil? Yes. Pointless? We don't know.
The mercenaries had jerked him around in front of his son and had already demonstrated they weren't loyal subordinates by doing so. Also, that they weren't above trying to threaten him (with a poor bluff attempt) and messed with his precious pop culture references.
The slaves? This is how you discourage people from trying to escape. Evil? Brutal? Yes. Pointless no.
Certainly, not to be compared with dragging a noncombatant Chancellor of the Empire into a major fight for no purpose other than to service somebody else's running gag.
We skipped through this sort of thing on page 3, but it was nice to go through it again for you.
Oh god, what if Kilkil isn't his real name. What if it's.... Punpun?
Heard that theory before.
Even if he is Punpun hiding behind a desk with lovely gold-rimmed specs... well... I hope not, to be honest. It'd feel like a cop-out to me. Yeah, be a surprise badass, but divine? Please, no... just... no...!
__________________ '~:. F5 Camper With Muscle-Memory Issues .:~'
I think Tarquin could appreciate the value of keeping a halfling ranger/barbarian entertained with a flying kobald to be more then worth while. he essentially takes out one of the OotS most uncontrollable and violent members out at the cost of a near-useless combatant... until that near useless combatant is killed.
But seeing as how Belkar seems to love killing kobalds personally with his own hands, as soon as Kilkil realizes he's being hunted down by Belkar, it'll just be a wild goose chase keeping Belkar out of the fray until Haley downs him, Belkar gets pissed, finishes of x/y/ or z and says something along the lines of 'How do you like having your kills taken from You!'.
seeing the low lethality rate for named characters though... I dunno. it's a little anti-climatic for any character to die at this particular moment. I would need to see 850 at least for this premise to be expounded upon.
Not that I know anything about the class, but Lore-master comes to mind? OF course... The wings are unexplained...
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Some of my opinions may seem illogical or insane. There are two main reasons for this:
1.I tend to phrase things badly and give the wrong impression of my views.
2.I am insane .
I think Tarquin could appreciate the value of keeping a halfling ranger/barbarian entertained with a flying kobald to be more then worth while. he essentially takes out one of the OotS most uncontrollable and violent members out at the cost of a near-useless combatant... until that near useless combatant is killed.
Wouldn't it be better if, instead of distracting Belkar, he took along someone who could kill him? The kobold running gag doesn't really make sense from his perspective. Why recruit someone for your evil team specifically intended to lose to his counterpart from the enemy team? Tarquin is a fan of the dramatic but he seems too pragmatic.
So, now that the Linear Guild has disposed of its #3 kobold, they're down to #4, Kilkil. So far, he has shown no skills other than administrative skills. What class could he be and what possible benefit can he bring to the LG? He's not carrying a weapon, otherwise it would be on his back like all other OOTS characters. Concealed daggers?
In the LG, we've got cleric, fighter, bard, wizard, and outsider. My guess is...thief? Or he's some obscure prestige class? Magic device-user? I suppose it'll be a big reveal after being cornered by Belkar, Kilkil suddenly displays awesome powers. Maybe he's there to count the spears and arrows used, to better update the accounting books of the Empire.
My bet is on artifacter. I don't know why, it just seems like a nice choice.
And did anybody ese noticed how he fits into Belkar's relationship with LG's Kobolds? Odd number ones, Yikyik and Yukyuk are just evil and very similiar to Belkar (Giant even said that Yikyik is just Belkar if he was a kobold and Yukyuk acts Belkar before character developmend kicked in and with riding wolf Belkar once wanted), while Yekyek was good and Kilkil is clearly Lawful.
Wow, I never noticed that. I forgot that Yokyok was actually lawful good! (Hmm, I wonder what would have happened if the Order had noticed that first. Belkar is cool and all, but a competent, loyal, and good-aligned version of him would be more useful from the Order's perspective.
One possible reason why Kilkil might be more than what he seems is that Tarqin seems to be planning to turn against Nale, and he has to deal with Nale, Sabine and Z. Sure, both he and Malack are powerful, but a bit of extra muscle wouldn't hurt.
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I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.
Belkar is a Ranger, but sucks at Ranger-y things; can't cast spells, can't track, etc.
So possibly Kilkil sucks at his own class.
Kilkil is literate, organised and level-headed.
I'm going Barbarian.
.........can't. stop. laughing....... *gasp*
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78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.The players were attacked individually on the road on the way to town by werewolves. To survive, they had to team up then and there without knowing anything about eachother (literally -- all character sheets were completed without other players' knowledge).
Do you think Kilkil is going to die? I think he may live and possibly be the death of Belkar and use his skull as a paperweight or something, instead of the reverse.
I just wonder how he became Chanceller of the Empire of Blood. After all, it used to be Marion Shewdanker when it was Tyriniaria.
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78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.The players were attacked individually on the road on the way to town by werewolves. To survive, they had to team up then and there without knowing anything about eachother (literally -- all character sheets were completed without other players' knowledge).
I just wonder how he became Chanceller of the Empire of Blood. After all, it used to be Marion Shewdanker when it was Tyriniaria.
That's true, but I gather that Tarquin shuffles his crew around to different kingdoms. Tarquin probably brought KilKil in to replace Miron after Miron was moved to another empire, since after his regime became firmly esconced he doesn't need yet another high-level adventurer permanently assigned to keep an eye on things.
It's this guy, which someone amazingly guessed in the #758 thread IIRC.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
__________________ group hug! Hold Person.
~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
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Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
Also ponies.
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Last edited by Gift Jeraff : 05-15-2012 at 11:17 PM.
Ah... I had missed that one.
But to me that implies that KilKil is one of the gang. I don't see from the text that anyone was moved up -- just laterally switched "to keep things fresh".
It reads like KilKil was one of the partners to swap. But then again, maybe he is referring to his old friend the priest... It kind of depends on the number of people involved in the sawp. However, I got the impression that Malack has been at the location for a while, but that is just an assumption. It seems like the Dragon/Emperass was once a part of the gang, but must not have been high enough to avoid being set up... Yet on the 3rd hand it could be because of her rather silly assumption on how to gain personal power...
There are a number of ways to inpterpret who is and who isn't important/key adventurers. The data is vague.
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78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.The players were attacked individually on the road on the way to town by werewolves. To survive, they had to team up then and there without knowing anything about eachother (literally -- all character sheets were completed without other players' knowledge).
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.........can't. stop. laughing....... *gasp*
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