Questions on the OotS religion

[NothingButCake]

We get it, you know what Hadrian's Wall is.

[Palthera]

Originally Posted by t209

Well, elves have roman esque names anyway.
1. There is no natural barrier (as in mountains or wall) near borders of Germania and eastern barbarian territory.
2. Since the cartographer said that elves sealed up the mountains, I thought they used some magic to raise the mountains (ala Populous) to keep away the human and lizardfolks, like Picts in Hadrian's reign.

Hadrian's Wall wasn't really designed to keep invading armies out, the general consensus is that it acted as both a marker and a way to control customs and stop smuggling. Or that it was merely a show of power. It's presence is actually superfluous in places because it's been built on top of cliff-faces.

[Kish]

And elves do not have Roman names. The two names Vaarsuvius and Inkyrius aren't even possible in Latin.

[rgrekejin]

Originally Posted by t209

But the comic said that the elves sealed up their land from the desert (Either call Go Away Mountains as Great Wall or Hadrian Wall (to make it more Roman)).

"Sealed up" doesn't mean what you think it does. It doesn't mean that the elves have somehow magically closed off the entire northern half of the continent, it's a figure of speech which means that the elves are in complete control of the northern half. They have consolidated their control over it to a degree that it is unrealistic that anyone can successfully force them to leave it. They are in complete control of it. They have it "sealed up".

...also, what is remotely Roman about the elves other than the fact that some of them appear to have vaguely faux-Latin names?

[t209]

Another question:
Why didn't the Azurite Clerics carry weapons, especially mace? Does the gods have to do with the weapon choice for clerics (Northern clerics, like Durkon and Loki Priest, carry mace while the Sourthern clerics use magic instead of katana or mace)?

[Marlowe]

Originally Posted by t209

Well, elves have roman esque names anyway.
1. There is no natural barrier (as in mountains or wall) near borders of Germania and eastern barbarian territory.

North front, the Rhine and Danube rivers. Roman expansion over these natural barriers (to the Elbe under Germanicus, into Transylvania under Trajan) was short-lived.

East front, the Syrian and Arabian deserts. Client states like Palmyra and Armenia blocked the gaps. Until the Romans broke them.

South front: the Sahara.

I'm presuming you mean "Germania" to mean the Roman provinces of Upper and Lower Germania, rather than the large expanse of "barbarian" territory also referred to as Germania. Also, a wall isn't a natural barrier.

Not that I have any idea what the absence or presence of natural barriers on any frontier of the Roman empire has to do with anything.

[t209]

Originally Posted by Marlowe

North front, the Rhine and Danube rivers. Roman expansion over these natural barriers (to the Elbe under Germanicus, into Transylvania under Trajan) was short-lived.

East front, the Syrian and Arabian deserts. Client states like Palmyra and Armenia blocked the gaps. Until the Romans broke them.

South front: the Sahara.

I'm presuming you mean "Germania" to mean the Roman provinces of Upper and Lower Germania, rather than the large expanse of "barbarian" territory also referred to as Germania. Also, a wall isn't a natural barrier.

Not that I have any idea what the absence or presence of natural barriers on any frontier of the Roman empire has to do with anything.

I know it now and can we talk about OOTS religion questions.
Another question:
Why didn't the Azurite Clerics carry weapons, especially mace? Does the gods have to do with the weapon choice for clerics (Northern clerics, like Durkon and Loki Priest, carry mace while the Sourthern clerics use magic instead of katana or mace)?

[Marlowe]

Redcloak hasn't been seen with a weapon either. We've mainly seen the Azurite clergy casting spells or using other supernatural class features, where a weapon would just clutter the art. I don't think we need to worry about Clerics not having visible weaponry anymore than need to worry about where Elan's rapier goes when he's not holding it.

TL:DR we haven't seen certain people with weapons because they were doing something other than fighting and did not have their weapons drawn at the time.

[rgrekejin]

Originally Posted by t209

Another question:
Why didn't the Azurite Clerics carry weapons, especially mace? Does the gods have to do with the weapon choice for clerics (Northern clerics, like Durkon and Loki Priest, carry mace while the Sourthern clerics use magic instead of katana or mace)?

All clerics are proficient with the same set of weapons. All clerics can use all simple weapons (morningstar, mace, etc). Also, clerics whose deities have the War domain are proficient with whatever their deity's favored weapon is (this may be how Durkon wound up with his warhammer). However, most clerics do not have the War domain, so most of them do not use martial weapons like swords, battleaxes, or polearms. Many clerics likewise choose to rely on their spellcasting rather than their weapons, and that appears to be the case with the Azurite clerics and Redcloak. You could maybe speculate that the Northern Gods are more warlike in general, and that is why their clerics tend to carry weapons and wear heavy armor, but we really haven't seen enough to say for sure one way or another.

[t209]

Originally Posted by rgrekejin

All clerics are proficient with the same set of weapons. All clerics can use all simple weapons (morningstar, mace, etc). Also, clerics whose deities have the War domain are proficient with whatever their deity's favored weapon is (this may be how Durkon wound up with his warhammer). However, most clerics do not have the War domain, so most of them do not use martial weapons like swords, battleaxes, or polearms. Many clerics likewise choose to rely on their spellcasting rather than their weapons, and that appears to be the case with the Azurite clerics and Redcloak. You could maybe speculate that the Northern Gods are more warlike in general, and that is why their clerics tend to carry weapons and wear heavy armor, but we really haven't seen enough to say for sure one way or another.

How about a new theory?
- Rich used Oriental Adventures (or Legends of Five Rings) shugenja template for Azurite Clerics (Every asian clerics do not wield weapons, even Unicorn and Crab Shugenjas).

[rgrekejin]

Originally Posted by t209

How about a new theory?
- Rich used Oriental Adventures (or Legends of Five Rings) shugenja template for Azurite Clerics (Every asian clerics do not wield weapons, even Unicorn and Crab Shugenjas).

Shugenja do not have domain spells, but we know that Azurite clerics do. So they're probably just regular ol' clerics that don't use weapons that much.

[t209]

Originally Posted by rgrekejin

Shugenja do not have domain spells, but we know that Azurite clerics do. So they're probably just regular ol' clerics that don't use weapons that much.

Maybe he mixed both european domain style cleric with asian no weapons cleric (which is still "regular ol' clerics that don't use weapons that much." (rgrekejin).

[rgrekejin]

Originally Posted by t209

Maybe he mixed both european domain style cleric with asian no weapons cleric (which is still "regular ol' clerics that don't use weapons that much." (rgrekejin).

*shrug* Maybe, but why? After all, even though Azure City has a distinct oriental flavor, they still use plain old medieval fantasy DnD classes sometimes. And even if he did homebrew a special cleric class, how would we ever know?

[t209]

Originally Posted by rgrekejin

*shrug* Maybe, but why? After all, even though Azure City has a distinct oriental flavor, they still use plain old medieval fantasy DnD classes sometimes. And even if he did homebrew a special cleric class, how would we ever know?

from the same comic strip, what if Shugenja is just a title for cleric (like Samurai as a rank but not as a class)?
Problem solved!

[Kish]

What problem?

[Math_Mage]

So, Rich threw the Shugenja template into his story...except that he didn't borrow any of the crunch, and he didn't borrow any of the fluff. So, what exactly DID he do that fits your theory?

[t209]

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

So, Rich threw the Shugenja template into his story...except that he didn't borrow any of the crunch, and he didn't borrow any of the fluff. So, what exactly DID he do that fits your theory?

Or it could be same as comment by rgrekejin

All clerics are proficient with the same set of weapons. All clerics can use all simple weapons (morningstar, mace, etc). Also, clerics whose deities have the War domain are proficient with whatever their deity's favored weapon is (this may be how Durkon wound up with his warhammer). However, most clerics do not have the War domain, so most of them do not use martial weapons like swords, battleaxes, or polearms. Many clerics likewise choose to rely on their spellcasting rather than their weapons, and that appears to be the case with the Azurite clerics and Redcloak. You could maybe speculate that the Northern Gods are more warlike in general, and that is why their clerics tend to carry weapons and wear heavy armor, but we really haven't seen enough to say for sure one way or another.

In another words, Southern clerics are not okay with stabbing someone with their swords or cracked skulls with blunt weapons, which a paladin could do it.

[rgrekejin]

By the way... what makes you think that Shugenjas can't use weapons? The Shugenja class appears in three books (Complete Divine, Oriental Adventures, and Rokugan Campaign setting) and in every single version, the Shugenja is proficient with all the weapons that Clerics are, plus the short sword/wakizashi. So, even if they were Shugenja, there's no reason that they wouldn't be able to use weapons if they wanted to.

[Kish]

Where's the indication that Southern clerics are unwilling or unable to use weapons?

("The High Priest of the Twelve Gods chose to spend all his actions trading spells with Redcloak instead of using a weapon" is not a good answer.)

[t209]

Originally Posted by rgrekejin

By the way... what makes you think that Shugenjas can't use weapons? The Shugenja class appears in three books (Complete Divine, Oriental Adventures, and Rokugan Campaign setting) and in every single version, the Shugenja is proficient with all the weapons that Clerics are, plus the short sword/wakizashi. So, even if they were Shugenja, there's no reason that they wouldn't be able to use weapons if they wanted to.

Ohhh..I never played D&D and chose Shugenja (Only in screenshots) because Azurites are asians.
Now, let's just wait for word of rich about azurite clerics having no clubs and short sword.

[Math_Mage]

Originally Posted by t209

Or it could be same as comment by rgrekejin

In another words, Southern clerics are not okay with stabbing someone with their swords or cracked skulls with blunt weapons, which a paladin could do it.

What you just said is not the same as what rgrekejin said. I can tell because I agree with what rgrekejin said, and I do not agree with what you said.

[rgrekejin]

Originally Posted by t209

Now, let's just wait for word of rich about azurite clerics having no clubs and short sword.

...I'm confused. What the heck would that even prove? Every class can use a handful of weapons, even the monk, who is designed to fight with his fists. The clerics of Azure City, like all other clerics, are probably proficient with weapons. They just don't use them. Maybe it is because they don't like to, or some tenet of their religion prevents them from doing so, but frankly, the most likely explanation is that, even though they're proficient with some weapons, there is a vast gulf between being proficient with a weapon and being good with one. We really don't need Word of God on this. And, as the strips in question are almost half the comic ago, we're pretty unlikely to get it, too.

[Valyrian]

Originally Posted by t209

Now, let's just wait for word of rich about azurite clerics having no clubs and short sword.

I really hope the Giant doesn't waste his time addressing imagined problems that can be resolved by plain common sense.

[B. Dandelion]

Originally Posted by Valyrian

I really hope the Giant doesn't waste his time addressing imagined problems that can be resolved by plain common sense.

...do you have any idea how hard it is to resist a perfect setup like that? Like, "so I guess now would be an awkward time to announce his bid for congress?"

[Obnoxious Hydra]

Perhaps we should steer this thread back in the direction of the original subject, isntead of getting deep into
"yeh but they have this pestige class so they use this thing because of that thing because they have this class from where they come from because it's a prestige class which uses this thing".


Regarding the southern gods, I think that, even though Rat is evil, the Paladins are slightly more relaxed about that and continue to worship the pantheon as a whole, because there is very little internal conflict amongst the southern gods, and they all work for the same thing.
I might be wrong, but perhaps Rat's evil alignment is simply because of some opinions he has that the other southern gods don't share. So, he was more inclined to help the Dark One when he came to godhood, but he's not a horrible terrible evil god with his own agenda like the Dark One or Tiamat.

[GrumpyEye]

Originally Posted by NothingButCake

The Azurites are clearly Japanese-based, which is distinct from Chinese.

And yin yang is not about balancing good and evil. It's the concept of how apparently divergent aspects of the universe are not opposing but complementary and interdependent. Morality has nothing to do with it; it's the ebb and flow of the universe. It's the observation that, with time, things rise and fall, what is obscured becomes revealed and obscured again, etc.

Ill disagree, the gods seem chinese zodiac based as opposed to amatsuwhatever/hachiman Japanese based standard pantheon. Soon and mijung seem to have names more similar to korean then japanese, but there is a good bit of japanese name stuff. The weapons and classes have a japanese feel because of the samurai/ninja/katanas. The new year celebration seemed more chinese with the dragon thing, but maybe its common in Japan too. My guess is that the Azurite culture is a composite east asian culture.

[t209]

Originally Posted by GrumpyEye

Ill disagree, the gods seem chinese zodiac based as opposed to amatsuwhatever/hachiman Japanese based standard pantheon. Soon and mijung seem to have names more similar to korean then japanese, but there is a good bit of japanese name stuff. The weapons and classes have a japanese feel because of the samurai/ninja/katanas. The new year celebration seemed more chinese with the dragon thing, but maybe its common in Japan too. My guess is that the Azurite culture is a composite east asian culture.

Don't forget Vietnamese (like Thanh).

[Marlowe]

Azurites ARE a generic East Asian culture, hence the mixing of Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese and Chinese names. "Mijung" is a genuine Korean women's name, though an old-fashioned one. That said, most of the polearms they used seem to have been quite Western.

[50monk]

{{scrubbed}}

[t209]

Now, let's just wait for word of rich about azurite clerics having no clubs and short sword.

This statement is now Pocket vetoed (Euphemism of Silent No).