Homebrew DesignRoll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.
The concept of the fourth spatial dimension is easy to comprehend. It's like the TARDIS. Essentially there is space, and within that space is another space that seems like it adds to the initial space from within it, but actually and visibly takes up the original space when outside it. It's when there are 5 spatial dimensions that things get really wacky, or fractional dimensions, as it becomes space-ception. I hope to see more than just musings (GM created material) for this concept. I can help with any details like the above, where normal and theoretical physics apply.
The concept of the fourth spatial dimension is easy to comprehend. It's like the TARDIS. Essentially there is space, and within that space is another space that seems like it adds to the initial space from within it, but actually and visibly takes up the original space when outside it. It's when there are 5 spatial dimensions that things get really wacky, or fractional dimensions, as it becomes space-ception. I hope to see more than just musings (GM created material) for this concept. I can help with any details like the above, where normal and theoretical physics apply.
I'm by no means an expert in the field (In fact, I have exactly zero schooling in it), but what I'm thinking of deviates a bit from that. It's also worth noting that I have watched only a paltry amount of Doctor Who, which means I fail as a geek forever. My impression is that the TARDIS acts kind of like a Bag of Holding - Bigger on the inside than the outside. The inside is an "Extradimensional space", separate from the surrounding world. Again, I don't know my Dr. Who, and they likely have a very intricate explanation of this which is almost certainly not what I just said. What I'm getting at is that it is an isolated dimension, whereas I'm proposing a fourth dimension for the entire world, one just like our usual height-width-depth. Height-Width-Depth-Layer, in this case. So physical objects would have four coordinates (Five if you include time).
I'd like to briefly discuss an aspect of my game that I very much want to emphasize: Homebrew. I've said it numerous times, how I wish to make most elements homebrew-able. I may soon be setting up a website, with its own forums. On said forums, I will of course have a section for homebrew. I'm considering having a more formalized means of PEACHing and review. Perhaps something along the lines of dedicated, approved members, "Confirming" various projects once they have been deemed as balanced and appropriate for the game. Once a project is Confirmed, it would be added to a compendium. Effectively, I'm consider making Homebrew an official and directly endorsed part of my game. Given the section this is in, I'd assume most readers would be able to empathize with this notion. Of course, you could use material that hasn't been Confirmed, and there's no impetus to post your work solely on my forums. It would however, be a way to verify the respectability of a given work, as well as allow for easy search-ability.
That last bit has always intrigued me about Homebrew. You post it, people PEACH it, some people read it and decide to use it. ... Then what? It eventually falls off the front page. At that point, the only people that will find it are those that have either A) Been referred to it, or B) Found a link in your signature, from a more recent post. So if your project doesn't really pop out at people, A won't happen. B relies on people actually scanning extended sigs, and requires the author to still be active. A lot of work simply falls off, never to be seen again. I find this a tragic fate for the brain children of so many bright individuals. I'd like to keep records, to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen with my game.
A universal 4th dimension wouldn't be noticed, and it's affects would only be changed mass from your perception and it's real mass. If there were ways to negate the fourth dimension, objects in the negated zone would grow (or shrink, if the fourth-dimensional object is smaller than the 3d one( you could accomplish this with just 3d objects)). They would grow to seem like their actual mass or the size of the field, whichever is smaller. Also, if you were to step out of the universe and view it, it would look its correct mass, as long as the 4d doesn't apply to you there.
The TARDIS works by folding the 3rd spatial dimension upon itself, forming a plane of 4d, looking to be 2d, and stores the 3d space within it. Essentially, the door is a portal that stores 3d space, and that mass replaces (not adds as above, sorry, words) the mass of the object, but only from within it.
So yes, the TARDIS works like a bag of holding, but both work because of 4th dimension shenanigans. I also have no schooling, but this has become my favorite hobby. The above description of the TARDIS was made by info given in the shows, a few abstract sources, and pure logical speculation.
A universal 4th dimension wouldn't be noticed, and it's affects would only be changed mass from your perception and it's real mass. If there were ways to negate the fourth dimension, objects in the negated zone would grow (or shrink, if the fourth-dimensional object is smaller than the 3d one( you could accomplish this with just 3d objects)). They would grow to seem like their actual mass or the size of the field, whichever is smaller. Also, if you were to step out of the universe and view it, it would look its correct mass, as long as the 4d doesn't apply to you there.
The TARDIS works by folding the 3rd spatial dimension upon itself, forming a plane of 4d, looking to be 2d, and stores the 3d space within it. Essentially, the door is a portal that stores 3d space, and that mass replaces (not adds as above, sorry, words) the mass of the object, but only from within it.
So yes, the TARDIS works like a bag of holding, but both work because of 4th dimension shenanigans. I also have no schooling, but this has become my favorite hobby. The above description of the TARDIS was made by info given in the shows, a few abstract sources, and pure logical speculation.
And thumbs up to the homebrew.
I think it worth noting that space in my game is discrete, not continuous. This is even more true with the hypothetical fourth dimension. I'm envisioning it like an infinite number of "Layers" of the three dimensional world, stacked on top of one another. By going through a particular costly process, you can move to an adjacent layer, maintaining your 3-d coordinates. Unlike the TARDIS, things here don't easily "Fold" into the fourth dimension to reduce apparent volume. Closest thing I can think of is the Ethereal Plane in D&D 3.5e. You can move "Further into" or "Further out of" the plane, without moving in 3d space (Generally you're moving in 3d space at the same time, but the point stands). The closer you get to the Material Plane, the more opaque things become. The further away, the more transparent and ghostly.
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Originally Posted by Story Time
Cogent, verisimilitudous, but also idealistic time-travel, is some-thing that I like. FourthLand is a game. The game should be fun.
Hmm.. I DO have a time-energy, but I made it explicitely such that you cannot go backwards in time. Homestuck is dang awesome and handles time travel exceedingly well, but I think that GM-mediation of the type of time travel I'd like may be even more complicated than the 4d idea. I'll give it a bit more thought, though.
I love your idea for incorporating homebrew into "approved content", thereby allowing your game to grow after development is done. What type of setup were you planning on using for the "Confirmed" section? Also, you'll need to have some sort of ToS for the Homebrew section, to prevent legal headaches...
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Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph
Very well done, Fako. The Demented One would be proud.
...with all of the trouble that a few people, and the thread in general, have gone to considering copy-right, copy-right theory, intellectual property, and what those things mean...I should probably be a little offended at the idea that some Shmoe could just waltz into a forum, type out some words, and suddenly those words are official content.
White-Wolf Publishing does that. I...hate that business choice. I just don't have the words right now to fully express how disgusting that idea is to me.
Welknair, on the other hand, is a very kind and generous person. If he wants to allow a home-brew section in his forum, then let him. And if he wants to endorse certain home-brew, then let him. But allowing content not created by Welknair to become official is wrong in a way so heinous that I can not articulate it.
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Originally Posted by Welknair
I'll give it a bit more thought, though.
Do that. Make the game you want to play.
Last edited by Story Time : 05-23-2012 at 05:22 PM.
I love your idea for incorporating homebrew into "approved content", thereby allowing your game to grow after development is done. What type of setup were you planning on using for the "Confirmed" section? Also, you'll need to have some sort of ToS for the Homebrew section, to prevent legal headaches...
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Originally Posted by Story Time
...with all of the trouble that a few people, and the thread in general, have gone to considering copy-right, copy-right theory, intellectual property, and what those things mean...I should probably be a little offended at the idea that some Shmoe could just waltz into a forum, type out some words, and suddenly those words are official content.
White-Wolf Publishing does that. I...hate that business choice. I just don't have the words right now to fully express how disgusting that idea is to me.
Welknair, on the other hand, is a very kind and generous person. If he wants to allow a home-brew section in his forum, then let him. And if he wants to endorse certain home-brew, then let him. But allowing content not created by Welknair to become official is wrong in a way so heinous that I can not articulate it.
I didn't give much legal thought to the matter.. Hmm. Perhaps not have the "Confirmed" dealio be tied to the copyright protection, but just simply a way to verify whether or not a particular piece of work has been approved for balance and flavor? What's important is the endorsement and availability of the homebrew, not it being tangled up in the mess that is copyright law.
The problem lies in the company itself endorsing it, and whether or not someone could manipulate the situation to claim that they are due compensation for their contribution to the game. That's why I suggested a specialized Terms of Service for using the message boards. State that any material that they create is the property of the original creator, and that by putting it onto the site they give permission for Fourthland to link to it or archive it, but cannot monetize it. Obviously this would need to be written in legalese, but that seems the "simplest" answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph
Very well done, Fako. The Demented One would be proud.
What's important is the endorsement and availability of the homebrew, not it being tangled up in the mess that is copyright law.
Exactly. That is why the word, "official," can not be used. Welknair in his Forum-Master threads ( clothes ) can swing by and say, "Hey, I like this. I endorse it." As a person, that's fine. Getting into officially sanctioned material, however, is dangerous.
And no. Terms of Service and / or Copy-right disclaimers are not the direction to go. There is only one body of text, one author, and one authority over the copy-right. The end.
It's dangerous enough that Welknair wants to allow home-brew on an official forum in such an open manner. Because of this, the best way to avoid legal trouble is to not make obvious and permissive concessions to forum members.
The problem lies in the company itself endorsing it, and whether or not someone could manipulate the situation to claim that they are due compensation for their contribution to the game. That's why I suggested a specialized Terms of Service for using the message boards. State that any material that they create is the property of the original creator, and that by putting it onto the site they give permission for Fourthland to link to it or archive it, but cannot monetize it. Obviously this would need to be written in legalese, but that seems the "simplest" answer.
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Originally Posted by Story Time
Exactly. That is why the word, "official," can not be used. Welknair in his Forum-Master threads ( clothes ) can swing by and say, "Hey, I like this. I endorse it." As a person, that's fine. Getting into officially sanctioned material, however, is dangerous.
And no. Terms of Service and / or Copy-right disclaimers are not the direction to go. There is only one body of text, one author, and one authority over the copy-right. The end.
It's dangerous enough that Welknair wants to allow home-brew on an official forum in such an open manner. Because of this, the best way to avoid legal trouble is to not make obvious and permissive concessions to forum members.
If possible, I'd like to avoid the use of legal disclaimers, as they necesitate the hiring of lawyers which I have nowhere near enough money for. If possible, I'd like to go with what Storytime just said - Me saying that I personally endorse it, possibly including a little guide to homebrew in the book, and a section for homebrew on the boards. I have no problems with avoiding the use of the term "Official" and I suppose I mispoke it when I originally said it, as it was not my intention to actually make the 3rd party brew a part of the legal entity that will be my game.
...on the other hand, honestly, I wish that my advice was not necessary. I wish that the world, including for publishing, was a happy place where every-one was treated with respect for what each person brought to a project. What a beautiful place that would be.
...I'd like the building of books and games to be something that happened in Equestria... That would be so grand.
Experience, however, has brought me to say what I do. Oh how unnecessary I wish it was.
...quick, some-one post some-thing cute... Please?
Last edited by Story Time : 05-24-2012 at 11:32 AM.
Reason: Grammar
Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.
I still feel that they stole my idea for a game that allows people to play at different levels of sophistication, and still stays balanced...
Well, I don't think I'm supposed to talk too much about specifics, but I can say this much: This is just a snippet. They'll be releasing periodic packets of information. This one is juuuust enough to run a level 1-3 adventure (Included, of course). As such, its a bit difficult to see the entire outlook of the game. It comes with 5 pregenerated characters instead of character creation rules. My first impression is "3.5, with some tweaks". Many of the changes are very reminiscent of PF. It'll still be some time before I can render a full verdict as to my opinion, but I think they're going in the right direction.
And I think I may have stolen your idea as well... "Progressive Disclosure" is almost exactly that. You can voluntarily choose to stay on a particular stage if you don't want the complexity from later stages. But why are you playing Fourthland if you don't want complexity?
Edit: Oh, and I toooootaly don't intend to steal WotC's playtesting methods. *Taking notes*
1. I think I've come up with a decent, non-paradoxical, cohesive means of proper time travel. One that I don't think would be a total GM nightmare.
Hooray!
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Originally Posted by Welknair
2. I got the D&D 5e playtest material. Now I need to debate between playtesting MY game and playtesting THEIR game. Gosh darnit, WotC.
Aww... Well, all work and no play is not healthy. So having fun, what-ever form that takes, is probably a correct direction. Go forward with that. Full throttle.
This would be the place to look. I got mine through hijinks. WotC is having maaany server problems at the moment, and many people that have received download links are finding them to be inoperable. I'd check out the WotC site and sign up for the playtest. You ought to receive the materials soon, if my impression is correct.
This would be the place to look. I got mine through hijinks. WotC is having maaany server problems at the moment, and many people that have received download links are finding them to be inoperable. I'd check out the WotC site and sign up for the playtest. You ought to receive the materials soon, if my impression is correct.
This is where Im at. If I dont get it in less than 2 hours.... I'll look elsewhere.
In other news, I heartily thumbs up allowing a homebrew section, regardless of any sort of endorsement.
This would be horrifying and glorious. And welcome! It's always to see a new follower of the thread!
Does... does this mean I can come out of the shadows? I... I brought a swordness pie.
__________________ If the above makes no sense, I probably did that on purpose. Probably.
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Originally Posted by The Witch-King
THIS aberrant, ancient evil ain't no playa! I'm gonna take care of my little Meduthids and my Spawnling Mama! Besides which--the Old Ones know the Elder Brain keeps pestering me about giving it some Grandspawnlings...
Didn't you also have the flavor-energy? You could foodify random objects, then make them taste like cherries! Or you could be a bit more creative, and make them taste like "SAN loss"... "Cthulhu Custard"
Today, in Welknair's thread, I've had reason to think of eating Final Fantasy elemental crystals and actually be nourished by them.
Of course, the thread also makes me think of the Lost Boys Banquet. ...I was forced to watch Hook once.
"Welknair's Thread: Side effects may include: Immediate loss of SAN, questions regarding our fundamental assumptions of the world around us, perpetual motion, blackholes, paradoxes, ponies, food-ified objects, piercing boulders, bludgeoning spears, and time clones. Consult your doctor if you feel that any of these may be a problem, or if any portion of your body has been chronofragged."
Edit: A NOTE TO ANY AND ALL LURKERS: We'd very much like to hear your opinions about what's going on on this thread! Don't be afraid to make a post!
"Welknair's Thread: Side effects may include: Immediate loss of SAN, questions regarding our fundamental assumptions of the world around us, perpetual motion, blackholes, paradoxes, ponies, food-ified objects, piercing boulders, bludgeoning spears, and time clones. Consult your doctor if you feel that any of these may be a problem, or if any portion of your body has been chronofragged.
This goes in the OP. Right now.
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Originally Posted by SamBurke
*snip* ...Hands down the funniest class critique I have ever read... *snip*
I cannot tell you the number of times I laughed while reading this.
I still don't know how liquids would work, liquids work the way they do in our world because they're made up of lots of molecules each doing their own thing
, if there are no atoms or molecules in Fourth Land how do liquids work?
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
