Homebrew DesignRoll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.
Mage King, this isnt a tier comment, but I love the idea of a battlefield control specialist and think that you did a good job making a fun, thematic class!
Heh. Thanks.
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Have you ever used this class in a campaign -- i'd live to hear how it turned out. I imagine that it has a steeper learning curve than a standard mage or even the specialust mage types like the dread necromancer or beguiler.
Sadly, no, not yet.
__________________ Avatar crafted by «The Wonderful Avatarist», «Ceika».
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Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth
The Next Round: Hundreds of the Guardians of Time show up and one of them screams out, "THIS IS AN UNSANCTIONED VIOLATION OF SPACE-TIME."
It's not finished yet, but any rough estimate for the Tier of the Magical Girl?
Rough list of class features:
- Costume points that grant various abilities, notably bonus weapon damage (up to 18, bonus elemental damage (up to 6D8). bonus speed (up to 60 ft), flight and Charisma (main-stat) to AC. Can't have all at once, but switch between them daily.
- Mettle and Constitution to AC
- Medium BAB, good Will&Reflex saves, 4 skillpoints/level, social skill list.
- Illuminations - supernatural effects that can be used all day, but must be resource-managed during an encounter. Notable effects: touch-attack ranged attacks with good damage. Melee attacks that prevent attacking or nauseate for several rounds. Auras that provide Mettle&Evasion, healing on melee-attacks or better saves.
I'd be interested in any of your thoughts on the following classes(none are mine, but I've running a game with them). Order is the ones I think are most interesting/unique/troublesome first.
Grace-Gift, by DracoDei (I have no idea what this is ) Binder(not really related to the official class of the same name: it's a summoner, largely unique mechanics), by Milo v3 Spellsage, by DonQuixote(unique mechanic) Harrowed, by Lord_Gareth Shield Warrior, by mhvaughan (ToB based) Changeling Warshaper, by Admiral Squish
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He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
Binder(not really related to the official class of the same name: it's a summoner, largely unique mechanics), by Milo v3
While I really like the concept, I don't see any point in trying to give it a Tier when it is only playable up to level 5. A good chunk of its class features revolve around binding creatures to things, but only a handful of the myriad possible options have been written up.
I'd be interested in any of your thoughts on the following classes(none are mine, but I've running a game with them). Order is the ones I think are most interesting/unique/troublesome first.
Grace-Gift, by DracoDei (I have no idea what this is ) Binder(not really related to the official class of the same name: it's a summoner, largely unique mechanics), by Milo v3 Spellsage, by DonQuixote(unique mechanic) Harrowed, by Lord_Gareth Shield Warrior, by mhvaughan (ToB based) Changeling Warshaper, by Admiral Squish
BE WARNED - The Harrowed is still afflicted with large and pervasive flaws, and is less functional than it looks.
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Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
Regarding the binder, it's playable past that: did you check the links in the first post?
As for the Harrowed, yeah, we've seen a bit of that. Without one of the parties abilities to give massive bonus to will saves, it seems a bit temperamental, in the Frenzied Berserker way.
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He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
Regarding the binder, it's playable past that: did you check the links in the first post?
I admit that it is technically playable, but from the sound of things it is you that hasn't looked at the other links. Do Apparatus, Aura, Soul, or Constructive Bindings look complete enough to bother with? I stated level 5 as that is the level where you first get an ability that is so incomplete it might as well not be there at all. The Deeds may be complete, but you can't say the same for the lion's share of the binder's class features. Which is a pity, as I do love the concept.
Here are some more classes I've been Tiering this past week. Other classes to follow, as I've got a list of classes I'm going to Tier soon. Please note that these aren't yet added into the Tier lists, as I'd like to go over some minor details still to make sure some of them might not be a different, likely higher Tier. Feel free to comment on these judgements.
Tier 1 Fightificer; because it's basically a Martial Adept version of the Artificer, though also still very much a Fighter.
Tier 2 Tendersoul; pretty good spell list, can atone Paladins and the like from early on, making Evil acts hardly a problem (though the Tendersoul themselves would still need to be LG). At-will Sanctuary with a greater DC practically allows for bypassing of encounters entirely. It's on the low end of Tier 2, but still.
High Tier 3 Fighter Incarnate; has some really great stuff, some really strong stuff too, and a LOT of options! Also has a great capstone. Xenoalchemist; you can basically upgrade everyone in the party by quite a bit with a little bit of work and time. Nothing really overpowered or broken, but certainly strong. Standard class abilities are also decent.
Tier 3 Connoisseur; curiously enough, this one Gestalted with Circle of Life's Ninja would perfectly embody one of my old long-standing characters and do so perfectly. The class itself isn't as powerful as the Xenoalchemist for the obvious reason that it cannot add its powers to other people. Olympian; wasn't sure at first, but the Olympian Talents really did it here. Nice, flavourful and fitting. Sagittarius; Concurrence is a bit like the Factotum's Arcane Dilettante ability, but more versatile, yet less powerful. Elusive Target is a nice spin on Evasion/Mettle. The still clearly inherent Ranger-ness, bonus feats, luck rerolls and Marksman Techniques clearly put this in Tier 3 territory. Shield Warrior; very nice and very balanced, a great tank. Stoner; it's prettymuch a binder that smokes. Warrior-Poet; sort of a single-classed Bardblade, but more fitting around the concept in a different, unique execution.
Borderline Tier 3-4 Barbarian; a 3.P version Fix that gains totems. I still want to look at the Pathfinder Barbarian and see how different it is from that, since I heard the PF Barbarian also gains totems. Judging by the Pathfinder Tier list, this may be an increase in Tier though, so I'm including it for now. Barrier Mage; Dispeller’s Haze doesn’t specify if it works or doesn’t with non-Barrier Mage spells, which could make it a great dip for other casters. Knowledge (strategy and tactics) doesn’t exist and generally falls under Knowledge (history) due to including facts on wars. The intention here was in keeping from it having any damaging spells even if they are primarily control spells, such as Wall of Fire/Ice and Black Tentacles, though Web isn’t included either. On the other hand, due to its limited skill list and low skill points (though with Int synergy), it cannot function as a skill monkey. Getting damaging control spells or more skill points and class skills and a class feature or two fit for a skillmonkey would make this a real Tier 3 class.
Tier 4 Fighter; Fighter Fix #183. Herioc Warrior; Fighter Fix #407. Runner; much better than I had expected it from the name and a quick glance-over. I like its moves.
Tier 5 Ascetic; this... I'm not sure what to make of this. It's like a Psychic Warrior, but... less so? It feels very much like a Fix, if you think Tier 4 should be the balance point.
Tier 6
Tier 6 is getting sad. It feels empty inside.
Variable Tier Stylist; most of the Styles are Tier 4, which combined make a decent Tier 3 or at least a Borderline Tier 3-4 class, but some of the Styles bring it up to Tier 2. Beastly and Cosplay in particular.
There are also some other things I am thinking of adding, such as either sections or links to short "essays" that describe and explain the Tiers further, why homebrew isn't bad, and so on. I know T.G. Oskar wrote one pretty recently (albeit unintentionally, as it was meant to be short).
I may be unable to Tier for the next two or three days. If I am gone for longer, it means my computer unfiguratively exploded.
In the meantime, I'm thinking of making some sort of special feature a part of this whole process, in a manner like I did with Dandwiki last Wednesday. I'm currently thinking for the next thing I'd like to look at a single homebrewer's work and pick the whole apart, try to analyze their style a bit. What do all of ye think of that? Any volunteers? Nominees*?
*If you nominate someone, please notify them of this, because it's possible they don't like to be a part of this in such a way.
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Strawberries is thanked for being an awesome avatarist.
In the meantime, I'm thinking of making some sort of special feature a part of this whole process, in a manner like I did with Dandwiki last Wednesday. I'm currently thinking for the next thing I'd like to look at a single homebrewer's work and pick the whole apart, try to analyze their style a bit. What do all of ye think of that? Any volunteers? Nominees*?
*If you nominate someone, please notify them of this, because it's possible they don't like to be a part of this in such a way.
I'll volunteer. Seems interesting.
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Newest Work: Pyromancer - My submission for Base Class Contest X
Vote here.
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
I'd be interested in any of your thoughts on the following classes(none are mine, but I've running a game with them). Order is the ones I think are most interesting/unique/troublesome first.
Grace-Gift, by DracoDei (I have no idea what this is )
No idea of the tier? Me neither (well, I am pretty sure it is 2-4, but that isn't saying much).
No idea of the overall functions and (default) feel of the class? I can tell you that... which makes me think it isn't what you meant(EDIT for clarity:so I shall not answer here unless directly asked). I did do a preliminary submission of it to this thread(inside a spoiler). "Preliminary" and "inside a spoiler" because it is waiting on the play-test data we are gathering.
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Originally Posted by Morph Bark
In the meantime, I'm thinking of making some sort of special feature a part of this whole process, in a manner like I did with Dandwiki last Wednesday. I'm currently thinking for the next thing I'd like to look at a single homebrewer's work and pick the whole apart, try to analyze their style a bit. What do all of ye think of that? Any volunteers? Nominees*?
Consider me a volunteer, although you might have to pick and choose which stuff to look at given I have rather a lot of stuff. Then again, that might have been your default plan anyway.
I would also nominate Vorpal Tribble, despite the fact I have no way of getting in contact with him due to his ban.
I'm willing; I know I need improvement and it would give a nice critique of my style as a whole. Whoever you choose this looks like it'll be interesting.
Edit: Also it's nice to have confirmation that Heroic Warrior was the tier I aimed at. Thank you.
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Peanut Dracolich avatar by Emperor Ing.
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
I already got something thought up for this one. Will do the next ones probably a little differently, at least in choosing which to go with.
In the meantime, I've Tiered the Alchemist, by Jarian. Nifty abilities and I like the distinction between Elemental Weavers and Constructors. The way the class is set up is very reminiscent of the Warlock, with at-will abilities, taking 10 on UMD and its own version of Imbue Item. The Tandem abilities are nice, but easy to neutralize by an enemy focusing the familiar or construct companion. As such, I shall file it under Tier 4.
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Strawberries is thanked for being an awesome avatarist.
Man, I really need to get an Extended Signature made, but I just...every time I go to do it, I'm like, "Screw it, I ain't got the time to hunt down all the crap I've made."
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Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
Thank you! I'll have to eliminate some of that (there's redundancies and dropped projects in there that I don't care to wave about) but that'll save me TONS of time.
I'll link it once I've got it in the extended sig, Morph, and then you can take a look if you like. I'll warn you - there's a sharp divide between some of my early stuff and my more modern work.
Hrm, also looks like I may need to add some stuff from the PrC contest onto there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
Yeah, I only included the stuff that you started threads for.. I figure that was more then enough. Some of the early stuff also lacks tables. And the only thing I didn't add was the autumn mantle you made, since I was mainly going through for 3.5.. But anyways, yeah your welcome man.
In the meantime, I'm thinking of making some sort of special feature a part of this whole process, in a manner like I did with Dandwiki last Wednesday. I'm currently thinking for the next thing I'd like to look at a single homebrewer's work and pick the whole apart, try to analyze their style a bit. What do all of ye think of that? Any volunteers? Nominees*?
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
There you go Morph - extended siggy in my siggy. Now to kidnap Lix and ride off into the sunset!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
In the meantime, I'm thinking of making some sort of special feature a part of this whole process, in a manner like I did with Dandwiki last Wednesday. I'm currently thinking for the next thing I'd like to look at a single homebrewer's work and pick the whole apart, try to analyze their style a bit. What do all of ye think of that? Any volunteers? Nominees*?
I would also volunteer, but as my big thing is not a class and likely doesn't tier nicely (though it has very severe tier implications for the core classes), it's probably outside the scope of this thread. But if you wanted to do it anyway, I'd be all kinds of grateful. I got a fair number of views here, but only 1 comment :-(.
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Bouncy ball is the source of all goodness and light!
I prefer higher powered games, do not consider magic to be "special", and want non-casters to have similar levels of utility. If you haven't clearly said what your balance goals are, my suggestions generally reflect that. I'm pretty good with other balance points too though, so if I'm offering OP advice, let me know and I'll fix that.
Y'know, considering this is the first time I'm doing this, I kinda felt like I should pick someone easy or with a small amount of 'brew, but you know what? Screwcork to that! I'll just be going with the only one nominated not by himself! Who, presumably, has been notified of course, and since more than 48 hours have passed since the nomination I think I can be safe in saying there aren't any objections on his part. Of course, the next times I do this (because I undoubtedly will do this again, at least if people like the below result), I'll simply roll a die for myself to randomly pick someone nominated. For now though, let's get on with it!
“Lords and ladies! Children of all ages! Angels and fiends and abominable eldritch spawn from beyond time and space!
Today I shall talk to you of a man, but not an ordinary man! This man has walked amongst us for over three full years, disguised like one of us! With his can-do attitude, nigh-Shakespearean vocabulary and a face that hides a brain soaked through with such heretical ideas and a warped perception of reality that if one were exposed to it they could even end up doing such things as loving blasting spells or becoming 150% more complex!
My friends, I speak of none other than the one known as…
The Great OSKAR!*
If you see this man, steel your soul so that you won’t accept any cookies from him. He has garnered so many over the years, he just might lure you in with one, but you will never again escape his grasp! But… why is that exactly? What is it that could lure you in about this man? As a great philosopher once said “a man is not known by his thoughts, but his actions”. What actions, you may ask? In case of this Mr. Oskar fellow, it concerns a matter of the gravest sort, something even few amongst brave souls dare delve into… homebrew. *shudder* Truly, a man who dares stain his hands with such vile materials should be avoided, right? Well then, let us bring forth this man’s works, let the world judge him for what he has done! Let the judgement BEGIN!
First Crimes
At the end of the month of May in the year 2009, the defendant joined the community of The Playground. It was a full two months that he enjoyed the peace his new surroundings before he decided to rile it up! On the 5th of August, 2009, the defendant posted the Blademaster! He dared presume he could do better than the officials of the illustrious Wizards of the Coast and created a class derived from the material they had published in their Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, in doing creating a perfect Master of One as a base class! We have a word for that in this courtroom: HERESY! Such specializing greatness should be reserved for Prestige Classes alone! This man caused the poor Master of Nine to go to a corner and cry, “why couldn’t I have been a base class, too? I never get invited to their parties!” How cruel! And to think that this was merely his first attempt! This shows that either this man has a great talent and propensity for doing these sorts of things or that he had much practice before joining our great community! Not only that, but this defilement of Tome of Battle was furthered with alternative class features for classes that never meant to be martial adepts in the first place and an expansive list of feats that would aid those fake martial adepts even further! Let us examine what further heinousness has come from this man--pardon me--the defendant.
Common Crimes
The defendant appears to be methodical in his work. In nearly all instances he has appeared, he has announced his presence aloud, not even making any effort to hide his crimes, rather advocating them, shout aloud to the world! This, along with his habit of--as he calls it--‘retooling’ official classes shows that he clearly takes pride in his work, challenging the conventions of the game that are bound in officiality!
The defendant, Mr. Oskar, presents all of his work with extensive commentary, his classes with
reflections on each single ability. His introductions are wordy and long. He has a love for ‘retooling’, which is taking official classes and remaking them in his own ideal. This drive isn’t even limited to base classes, having even consumed the Mystic Theurge, Bladesinger, Defender of Sealtiel and several divine prestige classes! It further appears that his classes can be divided into groupings that follow different styles, or ‘chassis’ as he calls them, as if he were making a car. This is most evident in the Monk, Ninja and Samurai, who all make use of a ki system for their class abilities and thus presumably work well together in multi-classing, but less so with other classes. Mr. Oskar also likes to advertise--nay--boast that his ‘retools’ increase existing abilities of the official classes, like the healer’s healing, the monk’s punching or the warmage’s blasting! Preposterous! Such pride is of the highest grades of sin!
Severity of Crimes
We shall now examine the severity of several of the crimes committed by the defendant!
Tier 3: Warlock; by splitting up the official Warlock’s Invocations into normal Invocations, Eldritch Blast enhancements and Pact Boons, Mr. Oskar greatly increased the class’ versatility. Along with making several options for different kinds of pacts, there was added more choices to the class, plus some new invocations as well. Overall, this proved to be a great boost to the Warlock, one they were desperately longing for, but one those wretched villains never earned for themselves! Warmage; a relatively small and simple project of Mr. Oskar’s, the greatest changes he brought to the Warmage were several small class feature additions that yet gave a great increase in power, while greatly expanding the spell list as well, bringing it up to Tier 3 in the process. With how small of a project this was, such changes he could still make are downright frightening.
Borderline Tier 3-4: Bez-Kismet; any changes and empowerments to the unholy pest that is the Hexblade are illegal in 57 countries and 46 states! The punishment for this should be to make Mr. Oskar one of them: without fate! Healer; in Mr. Oskar’s own words, he gave his Healer ‘retool’ a full total of “150% more healing, 200% more buffing, 300% better healing and 500% more offensive abilities”. Investigations show that these percentages in reality are close to 53%, 240%, 219% and 837% respectively. This clearly shows the man is deceitful! Marshal; with this one, we can be lucky that its power can be limited by limiting its allies. The Marshal by itself is generally Tier 4, for it mainly increases the numbers, including its own, but its action-granting is powerful and highly dependent on what the target of it can and will do with it. Paladin; restraining himself from making use of his earlier defilement of Tome of Battle can perhaps be ascribed to the thinking of many who are guilty of the crime of homebrew that they would be making Crusaders, not Paladins. In his quest to ‘retool’ the Paladin, Mr. Oskar has made Smiting per-encounter-based, granted access to cleric spells, boosted their saves even further and even granted them special new attacks and auras! Worst of all, Paladins no longer are immune to fear… they even become better while afraid! This Paladin is just as the project name suggests… heretical!
Tier 4: Blademaster; while most martial adept classes are Tier 3 at least, the Blademaster focuses on only one discipline entirely, thus not getting any benefits from other disciplines until late. Despite having full access to his chosen discipline, this greatly limits its versatility, yet giving it a decent amount of power and choice in which maneuver to use at any time. Ultimately, it is one of the few Tier 4 martial adept classes. If that isn’t some kind of hypocrisy, I don’t know what is. Monk; providing a boost to the Monk? Why, that’s blasphemous in its inherent nature, the Monk is after all the most flavourful base class of all and perfect without any dead levels. Many parts are kept intact, thank god, but Ki Strike has been improved, more bonus feats are granted and the Monk is overall updated with a ki system of sorts. Ninja; the wonderful Wizards of the Coast once decided to delve into the mysteries of the Orient and created as a result. To alter one of the classes that came out of that venture into a more magical Rogue powered by an improved ki system is an insult to the honour of the people of the East! Ranger; the addition of Trapfinding, Fast Movement and Favoured Terrain/Plane added some minor things to the Ranger, as well as the Fighter bonus feats in addition to his Combat Style, as a whole made the Ranger a lot stronger and allowed for more leniency on feat choice. Lenient on feat choice? Ha! As if anyone needs that! Feats were meant to be rare for anyone but the Fighter! We’re lucky that overall those changes and additions, as well as the switch to Druid spells, still wasn’t enough to increase its Tier, but the changes certainly do make it better. Defendant also may have a hidden love for Disney movies. Samurai; how dare the defendant use Japanese words that the prosecution does not understand! This, and their breadth of choices, great amount of bonus feats and ki power insult both official Samurai! We are lucky that it is still relatively weak compared to all the other works of the defendant!
Further analysis of his additional materials shows that in its entirety the defendant has a great sense of balance, generally aiming for the border between the so-called ‘Tiers’ 3 and 4, providing fluff in very nice packaging in minimal amounts, mainly because his goal appears to be altering official materials to his own sense of balance and bringing up classes to that level for which he deems the official class is not sufficiently powerful or versatile enough.
Even if the act of homebrewing was not a heinous crime, Mr. Oskar still clearly is eliminating everyone who does not like clear-cut explanations of abilities, his overly long introductions, many pages of fluff text on special codes for Paladins or Samurai dictating rules they might hold themselves to and who prefers a class balance of Tier 1, 2, 5, 6 or Truenamer-style from his target audience. And the Rule Zero Statute of the 2008 Magustrate Convention of Seattle clearly states that whenever target audiences are involved, everyone should be included!
A Word From the Defendant
The defendant has generously provided us with a pre-made retort on his motives. Completely ridiculous, of course, but the the defendant had the right to spout this nonsense.
The Verdict
The Jury has decided!
We find the defendant guilty of homebrewing base classes in the first degree.
We find the defendant guilty of homebrewing prestige classes in the first degree.
We find the defendant guilty of homebrewing feats in the first degree.
We find the defendant guilty of homebrewing monsters in the first degree.
We find the defendant guilty of altering official material.
We find the defendant guilty of possession of several ranks in the Balance (Homebrew) skill.
We find the defendant guilty of incredible verbosity.
We find the defendant guilty of acts of theatrical flair.
We find the defendant guilty of awesomeness in the second degree.
The punishment for this is
TWENTY-THREE
INTERNETS
”
*Also known as ‘Otto’ to some. Dance moves as of yet unknown.
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
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Lightbringer Adison, Swordmage priestess of Pelor, by the very talented Darwin.
Bunny!Adison by Alarra!
by Recaiden//
