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Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
So, I had the idea to have a sort of vote for the absolute worst of the worst in 3.x: stuff that makes you really blanch on sight. I'm keeping track of the top ten by vote in a short table, and all the other suggestions in a much longer one.
Everyone gets up to ten votes, and you can put up to three of them on the same suggestion (yours, or someone else's), or put up to one negative vote per suggestion you disagree with, which counts as one of your ten total; you can redistribute votes at will. Also, try to keep suggestions as tight and self-contained as possible: rather than saying "Sarrukh", try "Manipulate Form"; rather than "Wizard", try "Shapechange". Finally, please try to make all votes clear, to reduce the possibility of misinterpretation.
Paladin code (3), dust of sneezing and choking (3), alignments (1), Feinting (3)
10
Aricandor
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1), candle of invocation (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Cancer Mage (1), Tainted Scholar (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1)
10
Arutema
Antagonize (1)
1
Ashtagon
Fighter (1), Wizard (1), Divine Metamagic (1)
3
avr
Ride-By Attack (1), Iron Heart Surge (3), alignments (3), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (2)
Truenamer (1), Trap Sense (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Iron Heart Surge (1), Monstrous Crab (2), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Shivering Touch (1)
Truenamer (1), Paladin code (2), candle of invocation (2), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), alignments (2), Guidance of the Avatar (1)
10
The Dark Fiddler
Truenamer (2), Invisible Blade prereqs (2), Trap Sense (1), chicken-infested (-1), Cancer Mage (2), drowning (2)
10
TheGeckoKing
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Truenamer (3), Heroes of Horror (1), candle of invocation (1), drowning (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1)
10
TheOOB
Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1)
Illumian power words (1), Erudite (1), Favored Soul (1), Heroes of Horror (-1), CPsi Mind Blade (1), Dragon Disciple (1), alignments (-1), soulmelds (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), bloodlines (1)
10
Wonton
Prone Shooter (1)
1
Zaq
Truenamer (1)
1
Zerter
Synthesist Summoner (1), Dragonwrought (1), Vow of Poverty (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Cancer Mage (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Reincarnate (1), Flaws (1)
9
Zonasiy
Locate City (1)
1
Statistics:
Spoiler
Type
Suggestions
Votes
Rule
15
58
Spell
18
54
Item
7
50
Base Class
10
50
Prestige Class
14
44
Feat
19
40
Combat
8
31
Class Feature
7
29
Maneuver
2
26
Ability
6
21
Monster
6
18
Skill
3
17
Variant Rule
2
5
Book
2
2
Template
1
1
Disease
1
1
Power
1
1
Class Feature/Item
1
1
Race
1
1
Flaw
1
0
Dust of Sneezing and Choking: A serious status condition inflicted for an absurd duration, no save, no SR, by a cheap cursed item.
Chicken-Infested: Probably one of the wondrous deeds of writing that earned Dragon Magazine its remarkably dubious reputation for balance. This is a flaw that acts more like a cheesily-written spell, and has about the same level of common sense. (I.e., none.)
I'm putting one vote for each of these, er, fine vintages.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Bear
That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamishspence
"Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid"
I often hop into threads for just one thing
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid"
I often hop into threads for just one thing
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
__________________
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kardar233
I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Divine metamagic in general.
Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
__________________
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Blue is strictly for emphasis.
And grey is kind of like an aside to my main point.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by avr
Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.
Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?
Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.
Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
18 suggestions! It's a deluge!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khosan
Drowning rules? I feel like drowning rules qualify.
Right you are, and in they go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutema
If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.
Ehh, why not. It's in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallion
Needs moar truenamer.
Fair enough, although I'd prefer a tighter entry (IMO, not all of truenamer is ill-written, just one of the lexicons, one or both of the Laws, the check scaling.... )
Quote:
Originally Posted by avr
Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
Iron Heart Surge deserves first place & the polymorph line second, but those feats should come in down the list.
I suggest the polymorph line should take up only one place BTW.
All of these are in. Note: I interpreted your priorities as indicating max votes (3) for IHS and increased votes (2) for the polymorph line. If that's incorrect, please let me know; I don't want to resort to judgment calls much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoren
I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.
Another "entire class" entry, I see. Any possibility of cutting that down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf
I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
Both are added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon
Divine metamagic in general.
Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
From my perspective, neither Fighter nor Wizard are exactly badly written in isolation; their imbalance comes from the nature of feats vs. spells. But, you know, it's a matter of perspective I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willpell
It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.
Ah, I remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killianh
No one has said the planar bubble from planar shepherd yet? its bad writing is what allowed that whole 10:1 time flow thing to happen
Hey, the thread's only been going for a few hours!
Quote:
Originally Posted by willpell
Anything that allows you to become a Genie and grant yourself Wishes probably qualifies too.
Yes, but more specifically?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurald Galain
What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written
Shivering touch. In it goes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorhandle
You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
Is this an official vote for the wretchedness of Chicken-Infested?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben-zayb
Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.
Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?
Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.
Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
I don't know about the last personally, but the others are familiar to me.
I'm amused to see a ton of suggestions but not much agreement yet; no one has even come close to using up their 10 votes, and only one person has felt strongly enough to put 3 on one. Anyway, I've updated the list, so on we go!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Bear
That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamishspence
"Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid"
I often hop into threads for just one thing
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.
There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
Are you sure this is the correct link? Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.
Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.
Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.
Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.
The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.
It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
One more vote on an existing suggestion and we could ensure that all the top ten have at least two votes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurald Galain
Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.
There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
Two more to add!
I might actually put the ridiculous duration clauses in PaO in separately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoren
I'd add another vote for a monster, if that's allowed.
Sure, why not? ... although that's not the official link by any means.
Anything in 3.x that's just stupidly broken is fair game. Make sure to vote for some others, though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpik777
No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...
Though IHS still takes the cake.
Yeah, adamantine horror is the one with multiple at-will 9ths. At CR 9.
Is that two votes for IHS, or three, or just one? (I'm assuming two for now.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acanous
I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.
Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.
Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.
Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.
The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.
It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.
An eloquent and well-reasoned condemnation.
However, it unfortunately lacks a specific vote, so I'll assume one for CoI for now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Bear
That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamishspence
"Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid"
I often hop into threads for just one thing
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar. Also, scratch Beholder Mage; the problem with that lies in the polymorph line.
Here are two new ones. Persist Spell, and Nightsticks. I don't think DMM is the problem per se; numerous feats and features simply assume that Turn Undead is a strictly limited resource. And it normally is, except if you buy cheap, cheap nightsticks to blast your limit through the roof. Persist Spell makes spells last way longer than they should, and goes a long way towards wrecking the spell resource system.
And, if you're going to put entire classes on the list, you should at least put the Druid and Monk there. The Druid is a full caster, and has innate polymorph ability, and comes with a free beatstick that tends to be better than the party fighter, so it is three classes wrapped in one. Broken straight from level one, which wizards markedly are not.
And the Monk. Need I really say more? We've had so many threads about the class that at some point we were suggesting a subforum to drop the monk threads in. We've had whole guides dedicated to explaining exactly how sucky the monk is. It deserves to be near the top, because it's a class that wildly fails to live up to its promise, and a common trap for newbies.
Okay, my vote for the Polymorph Line (and just put PAO under there, it's the same thing); Candle of Inv; Tainted Scholar; Shivering Touch; the Su/Ex/SLA rule; Prec Apprentice; Persist Spell; Nightstick; the monk; and the monk again.
Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar.
Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.
Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.
I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.
Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.
I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
Bonus points for cancer mage if you use the human varient with the sigil that gives you strength to determine bonus spells, whose name eludes me at the moment.
__________________
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kardar233
I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
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Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
