Here's an experiment: Time how long it takes you to say those two sentences, about the bec de corbin and so on.
It's been established that speech in OOTS is a free action, ergo it takes no time at all, unless it's funny because it does - like when V bores the Goblins to sleep before they can move.
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Then try to silently communicate the word "Teleport" or "Get us out of here" in the same amount of time or less.
I... actually have no idea how I would go about doing that, without the benefit of some pre-arranged signals. Something like, oh I don't know, a sign language. Perhaps one designed expressly for spells and combat situations. I'll bet you can't think of one either in the same time you specified.
BTW, note that while Tarquin was verbose in his expository speech for his/our benefit, he had only to communicate three words at most to Z, and we are even helpfully told what they were. "Teleport," "Bring" and "Accountant" the last of which could have been done by simply pointing to Kilkil.
That much Drow sign language he should easily have picked up if he had ever worked with Drow in the past; the rest of what he says is needed only to:
A) Establish for the reader how he's communicating, and
B) Provide the funny, which is what a comic strip is all about.
Heck, for all we know the "funny" part may just be another of the dubious stories he indulges in solely to build up his "legendary" status.
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Yeah...I don't think I want to know the story behind that. And damn, this whole escaping thing is starting to get old. Let's hope they end up next to Xykon or something.
And hey, Tarquin doesn't have his axe anymore.
So did Nale and perhaps their Kobold helper did also, so I figure that axe is a major new weapon for Roy or Durkon since as a dwarf axes should be perfectly useable and does this mean Elan has a new weapon and possibly Belkar too?
Okay I bet the Kobold didn't drop anything but I wonder what those mummies were packing since I figure they weren't searched beforehand!
Heh, "completely unbalanced -in all the best ways"
This is gold
For those who aren't familiar with the history of D&D, this is an injoke which I wasn't aware of until I read the wiki page on Unearthed Arcana. That book introduced a number of new races and subraces including drows. The general consensus among critics were that these races were overpowered and thus unbalanced the game.
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Curb-Stomped them? Using a plan that actually worked? Stood their ground instead of running away? Didn't need Lawyers and Loopholes?
You mean, just like they did in Cliffport? Or later, in Azure City? Heck, the only time the Order have had any trouble at all dealing with the Linear Guild is in Dorukan's Dungeon--they've handily beat them at every encounter since.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the comic... but the Linear Guild escaping again without any consequence? This is getting really, really, reeeaaallly boring.
Kill them off or don't, but at least I am tired of encounters that end without Nale or Sabine dead and them simply running/flying/teleporting out. I'm beyond caring for the schmucks (but even Kilkil made it out).
I know we are in the "middle of something" but just another "pop" is way too stale. This here now was extra-boring as there never was a real threat to anything as Tarquin had (the pretty awesome trap of the Order notwithstanding) everything in firm hands.
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Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!
You mean, just like they did in Cliffport? Or later, in Azure City? Heck, the only time the Order have had any trouble at all dealing with the Linear Guild is in Dorukan's Dungeon--they've handily beat them at every encounter since.
They planned to lose in Cliffport, and I think that he didn't count Azure city since the entire story would have hit a stalemate if not for that guy what taught Elan of the Dashing Bard. What was his name?
-- As we near the fourth gate, V has been separated from the Order. We can strongly suspect from Qarr's behavior that the ArchFiends are about to temporarily repossess her.
-- Malack has been separated from his authority source and is now a wildcard.
-- It seems like plans to control the gate require one divine and one arcane caster - and given the implications they should be nongood (or mind-controlled). Those requirements are now present on location and isolated.
-- We're one successful threat, bargain or mental enslavement away from the IFCC being ready to make a play for control of this gate.
-- I expect the real disruption to this plan is going to be either 10,000 soldiers of the Emperess of Blood, or else Xykon. It would be hilarious and fascinating if Xykon had to blow this gate himself to interrupt the IFCC's plan for it.
-- I don't know what's going to happen to OOTS in this plan, but it's not good.
I don't see why we need to dwell on the believability or lack thereof of Tarquin knowing Drow sign language. It is not a necessary component of LG escaping this time.
If he adventured back in the days when the Forgotten Realms Underdark was a big thing, it'd be no surprise. Between the followers of elistree and Drizzt and jarlaxle, the Realms were overrun with refugees from the Underdark and I believe they all spoke drow sign language . Even if not every drow speaks it, it's perfectly plausible that a high-level arcane caster, and a general who (it is now revealed) spent a lot of his career fighting with or against drow, should both know it.
So the order wins one. They don't actually get to capitalize on the victory to deal lasting damage, but its' better than running in disgrace.
I find I can't complain. Unlike Nale's wand of energy draining, which seemed a pulled-from-hammerspace contrivance to keep Durkon from instantly winning in their last fight, this is in-universe and plausible from both characters. Naturally zzdtri would have an escape spell, and naturally a fighter who relies on defense as heavily as Tarquin does would be prepared to enact a tactical withdrawal with efficiency.
A little bit disappointing that the victory is fruitless, or at least mostly so. But I guess it's too early in the book for anything really decisive to happen yet.
Oh, yes... until I see the Xs in Thog's eyes, I assume he is alive and ready to cause trouble later in this book or another.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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-- Eliezer Yudkowski, author of "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"
His decision to retreat might have been less in terms of self preservation and more in terms of long term planning. He has already shown himself to be willing and able to take on the Order by himself. But he needs Nale and his knowledge of the gates. Belkar was about to kill Nale and the Zz'dtri might have been next to die. Winning the battle but losing the war doesn't fit his profile.
That time, the Order was ambushed and unprepared, as well as conveniently hit by a couple of acid splash. Tarquin was presumably buffed up, as the Guild prepared that attack well. Should Tarquin have tried to take on Roy, Belkar, Haley and Durkon by himself, he would have probably find that the situation had been...reversed.
Ugh. Fine, sure, it's totally reasonable for Tarquin to know Drow Sign Language, but I really REALLY wish it had even come up as an obscure background joke somewhere before, instead of him saying "Oh by the way I know the exact thing to do to undercut their victory."
Even a Chekhov's Gun is better than a Deus Ex Machina.
"Bring my accountant", wow, Dorw sign language is really specific.
I guess DSL is as fully developed as ASL and other real world equivalents. Frankly, I'm more surprised that he can say all that one-handed.
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Originally Posted by Watcher
Ugh. Fine, sure, it's totally reasonable for Tarquin to know Drow Sign Language, but I really REALLY wish it had even come up as an obscure background joke somewhere before, instead of him saying "Oh by the way I know the exact thing to do to undercut their victory."
Even a Chekhov's Gun is better than a Deus Ex Machina.
Eh, Tarquin does have an established talent for pulling out something obscure and yet astonishingly useful on a moment's notice. Like the ability to pun-duel or having glamered armor just perfect for a disguise. So I can just take it as another example of that.
"Bring my accountant", wow, Dorw sign language is really specific.
I wondered about that too. "Kobold" I can understand. Drow should have the sign for them. But accountant? Given as the most plausable purpose of the language seems to be the silent communication before the battle, how many times before in Drow history the word "accountant" came up in pre-combat chat?
I'm also feeling a bit fuzzy in regard to Tarquin. Until recently, I felt him to be a magnificent bastard, a pretty able and cool character.
But if he now pulls lightning from his behind and starts to scorch the gods with fireballs from his eyes, I'd really not be surprised but shrug.
Does this guy really have no weakness? Is there anything he cannot do? I am pretty certain there are flaws as well, but by now it's getting harder and harder for me to perceive him as fully believable character.
Anyway, even if I'm not really feeling any suspense I'm eager to see how things unfold.
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Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!
I wondered about that too. "Kobold" I can understand. Drow should have the sign for them. But accountant? Given as the most plausable purpose of the language seems to be the silent communication before the battle, how many times before in Drow history the word "accountant" came up in pre-combat chat?
How plausible is it that anyone in OOTSverse can use sign language? After all, they only have THREE digits on each hand.
If you really want to nitpick, you could just say that no sign language could exist that is intricate enough to say "accountant" on one hand with only TWO fingers and a thumb in the amount of time given!
As a Deaf gal I LOVE this! Everyone think 1 sign class in middle school means they can say anything! Captioned TV is almost as bad -- really funny freudian slips. Keep us the great work! Go Sign!
Malack has been separated from his authority source and is now a wildcard.
We know that Malack gets upset when his precious zombies get hacked up, so can you image his reaction when he finds their dismembered bodies? I like how the Giant is setting up the next conflict- especially if he shows us Malack going full power (like he did against Nale)!
By definition, it makes it more plausible. Believable is in the eye of the beholder.
So now you're saying he speaks Beholder as well? Talk about an evil Mary Sue.
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Ten bucks says Malack defects to the order's side.
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Originally Posted by Wayac
Five more says it's part of Tarquin's plan!
I'll take that bet; Malack may hate Nale and be friendly with Durkon, but he's been a steadfast and loyal ally of Tarquin's for DECADES, and by all accounts, Tarquin's long-term plans are working perfectly.
Plus, Tarquin has been working hard all this time to avoid letting the order know who he is. If Malack shows up, what's the first thing the Order's gonna ask him? (assuming they talk instead of fight) "Where's Tarquin?"
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Originally Posted by holywhippet
But odds are he has at least one healing item on his person he could use.
He's got a ring of regeneration; we've seen it in action once already. I don't know the exact rules for those sorts of things, but he can probably just slip it on Nale's finger for a few rounds and be done.
Edit: Swordsaged
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Originally Posted by Mantine
What I'm addressing here is not fizzling, but overly convenient efficiency.
*snip*
By using a specific non-verbal drow code (I mean, really?) he not only conveyed his order perfectly within a second, but effectively cut up Roy and everyone else from understanding it before they banded together for the teleport.
Given how even with all the above they still barely escaped, it's no stretch to say that T's "lucky" ability effectively saved the team.
As far as I know, the Drow are the only race in D&D that are specifically called out as having an alternate non-verbal method of communicating. The drow has been around since chapter 1, so it doesn't seem that contrived that drow-related quirks are showing up in the comic. Now, if Z had been Tarquin's caster, brought along just for this mission, then I would admit you might be on to something.
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Originally Posted by Winter
Does this guy really have no weakness? Is there anything he cannot do? I am pretty certain there are flaws as well, but by now it's getting harder and harder for me to perceive him as fully believable character.
I would say he's probably almost as powerful as Xykon, just in a more creative and less mechanical way, and he's more cautious. Frankly, this is how characters SHOULD be playing, if death in D&D wasn't such a revolving door. Imagine if you had exactly one character, and if he died you didn't get rezzed and you couldn't reroll. In fact, imagine if when that one character died you could never play with that D&D group again. No adventurer would leave the safety of a city without 100 pounds of magical-amulets to account for every concievable situation.
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Originally Posted by eras10
Some things to think about:
-- As we near the fourth gate, V has been separated from the Order. We can strongly suspect from Qarr's behavior that the ArchFiends are about to temporarily repossess her.
-- Malack has been separated from his authority source and is now a wildcard.
A powerful arcane caster and divine caster have both been seperated from their repsective groups, in a facility that (probably) holds the Gate. Coincedence?
Almost certainly, but is anyone else REALLY hoping to see a V & Malack vs. Xykon and Redcloak spell-duel?
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He's got a ring of regeneration; we've seen it in action once already. I don't know the exact rules for those sorts of things, but he can probably just slip it on Nale's finger for a few rounds and be done.
Last I checked, Rings of Regeneration only work for wounds received while wearing the ring. Thus, it works for all wounds Tarquin currently incurs, but should Nale get it, it would only heal injuries he got after he put the ring on - nothing more.
But accountant? Given as the most plausable purpose of the language seems to be the silent communication before the battle, how many times before in Drow history the word "accountant" came up in pre-combat chat?
If the world has any equivalent of Jarlaxle Baenre , more often than you might think. In the Homeland trilogy, he commanded a mercenary band which sometimes changed sides in the middle of a battle when offered more money. When your entire outlook is centered on profit, you would expect an epic-level NPC expert accountant to be just as much a part of the battle staff as soldiers.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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"Opportunities to do good are everywhere but the darkness is where the light needs to be".
-- Eliezer Yudkowski, author of "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"
You know, I have to confess to liking Tarquin as a character. I think his uber-resourcefulness leads to a few different things. First of all, when the OOTS do have a decisive win against him, when he is ultimately defeated (or however this all plays out), it will make the victory that much sweeter.
Also, it shows a very nice foil for Roy. I mean, Roy is a fighter with intelligence. Not sure if Tarquin's genre savvy-ness is intelligence based, but you can't deny his tactical abilities. Are we seeing what Roy could be if he made full use of this ability stat? Kind of like how we saw his plans for an ambush coming off almost flawlessly?
Another difference between the two is that Roy tends to lead in the open, while Tarquin pulls strings from behind. Again, it's a nice twist that fits nicely into the "opposites" them of the LG vs OOTS.
Though the drug theory is inventive, given Tarquin's discourse about curvy female drow, his personality, and the fact that it's a lot easier to see our sign for "drinking fountain" as "oral sex" than "smoking", I'd vote for Tarquin having shown his sly linguistic skills to the lady, rather than the other.
I gues you could say he's a...
Cunning linguist.
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
WHY ISN'T HE JOLLY???
