Given wizard of the coast are going through the motions of releasing a new edition it got me wondering what would happen if they decide to test the waters with a new d&d cartoon series.
So what would you expect if a new D&D cartoon series was announced and they took the opportunity to use their site and you tube to show clips of their ideas ala the comic series they're currently doing on their website?
Would you want a remake with another group of kids stranded in the Realms or something else?
If you selected a particular setting which one would you like used for a new cartoon series?
Hank the Rangers,
Shiela the Thief (Illusionist in Brazil i hear),
Diana the Acrobat,
Eric the Cavalier,
Presto the Wizard,
Bobby the Barbarian and of course Uni with the gnome sized Dungeon Master.
After the latest Pax exploits of Acquistions Incorporated where Chris Perkins dressed up as an exceedingly tall DM this got me wondering... who would you want in your cartoon series of a new D&D cartoon?
Note: It DOESN'T have to be a remake, I'm asking what YOU'D like to see.
Eberron would probably be the most interesting for a contemporary cast - robots, trains, magic masquerading as technology (moreso than usual)... it would paint an alien yet eerily familiar backdrop for people used to technology.
For what I'd like to see, I'd almost say something like Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, where a group of kids are thrown into an alien world of violence and adventure. Each of the kids respond differently to the circumstance: one just allows himself to be completely lost in the dream, another wants to enjoy it for as long as she possibly can, while a third enjoys it all but believes they should be looking for a way home - no matter how much his peers may object.
Basically, I'd like a story that really thinks about what it would mean to be cast into that situation - to be given a life of excitement and adventure beyond anything you could have had in your old life, where you can be something more than just another student, just another wage slave. Where it's kill or be killed and every day your life is at risk, where your friends' lives are at risk. Is the joy worth the trauma?
The characters become the point where two worlds collide: real world sensibilities in a fantasy setting. It would be great if they could blend the two, subtly. Anachronistic tactics, attempts to duplicate with magic the comforts they grew up with, genre savvy reactions to events...
I wouldn't want another 80s cartoon, with one-note characters, laugh tracks, and those "Oh, you..." endings where everyone laughs at the comic relief character(s) doing something stupid.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
I like Calemyr's idea that its a group of kids thrown into an alien world of adventure... but instead of it taking place on one world, why couldn't they jump from world to world (or Material Plane to Material Plane)?
This way WotC could show kids / potential gamers all the different settings / types of games that D&D is capable of running. One story arc can be in Eberron, the next can be in Ravenloft, the next in Forgotten Realms, etc... and maybe sometimes the party ends up temporarily stuck in the Astral Plane or one of the Outer Planes ("Escape from the Abyss!") or have to journey to one of the Elemental Planes to get an Artifact that may help them get home...
As for the characters, maybe it would be cool to have four main human characters as POV characters for the audience: female Fighter, female Sorcerer, male Rogue, male Bard. These are the four kids trying to get home. I like these four classes for the POV characters because they can be tied into their "normal" background - one kid is a natural fighter, the other naturally has a strong, fiery personality (and is amazed when it turns out that translates into actual magical ability in the D&D universe), the next is naturally sneaky and the last is a natural musician and storyteller (and is equally surprised to find that these abilities tap into magic in the D&D universe).
Along the way they meet up with all different types of races and allies... such as a dwarven cleric of Moradin, an halfling ranger, an elf paladin, a tiefling wizard, etc, some of whom adventure with them for a single story arc, others who join the party for an entire season or more...
As the party "levels up" and grows not only more and more powerful, but also more and more involved in the goings on of the various worlds they visit, they may even contemplate abandoning their quest to get home, and decide to become Champions of the Planes (or perhaps Tyrants of the Planes)...
Last edited by JoeMac307 : 09-07-2012 at 09:38 AM.
... but instead of it taking place on one world, why couldn't they jump from world to world (or Material Plane to Material Plane)?
It's a nice idea in theory, but it would be very difficult to build a narrative around it. You'd basically be animating Sliders, where every episode has a different set of rules and balance of power and characters... You wouldn't be able to set anything up, really. Plus, the terrain and art styles would need to change fairly sharply for the settings to really be distinct in any event, which could be rather tough.
I mean, it isn't impossible and it could be quite interesting if done well, albeit it would become far more focused on the main cast (the only constants) than the setting.
That said, I definitely agree with you on keeping the PoV cast down to a minimum, and the ones you suggest would work well. One of the aspects that kind of ruined the old cartoon for me (didn't see much of it, really) was the fact that the PoV cast was a large enough group to support itself and as such never really became part of the world, they just traveled in it like oil through water. Forcing the PoV cast to interact with the setting, to actually create threads connecting them to people outside their little outsider group, would really give the story some depth.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
That Clone Wars cartoon was suprisingly well received and from what fragments I've seen, it looked quite mature. A fantasy version with that attitude might work quite well as well.
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It's a nice idea in theory, but it would be very difficult to build a narrative around it. You'd basically be animating Sliders, where every episode has a different set of rules and balance of power and characters... You wouldn't be able to set anything up, really. Plus, the terrain and art styles would need to change fairly sharply for the settings to really be distinct in any event, which could be rather tough.
I mean, it isn't impossible and it could be quite interesting if done well, albeit it would become far more focused on the main cast (the only constants) than the setting.
Perhaps they aren't the only ones hopping from plane to plane? Maybe they aren't even the only characters from Earth trying to get back home? Maybe they are in a race against one or more other groups to find the one McGuffin that will let only one group head back home, stranding the rest in the D&D universe? Maybe there is a villain or evil organizaton that is also searching for the McGuffin for nefarious reasons, and they are constantly clashing?
Adding in some or all of those elements would let you set things up and build a narrative. Also, I agree that they shouldn't hop from plane to plane too frequently... maybe stick with one, maybe two main campaign settings for an entire season, and have them take one or two episode long side treks to Inner and Outer Planes once in a while to liven things up.
It could also lead to difficult decisions... one of the party falls madly in love an "NPC" they've been adventuring with for most of the season, and they now have to choose... do they leave their love behind to help the rest of the party find a way home, or do they abandon the party (and their life on Earth) to stay with the NPC for the rest of their days?
Last edited by JoeMac307 : 09-07-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Just because I'm a little bored at the moment, I wrote up some characters that could serve as the PoV cast:
Spoiler
Sam (Short for Samantha): Fighter. An avid athlete and a bit of a tomboy, Sam enjoys physical solutions to problems. She's not stupid, mind you - in fact she displays quite a bit of intelligence in how she fight - but she prefers to play to her strength, and that is, well, her strength. She tends to act on impulse more than the others and does not back down even when outclassed. Probably the happiest to be in the game, because there she can be who she wants to be rather than what everyone expects her to be.
Lisa: Sorceress. A shy, gentle soul with a surplus of empathy, Lisa feels there must have been some sort of mistake in attaining her class. Instead of becoming something passive or supportive, like a cleric or a druid or even a ranger, the powers she realizes are aggressive and destructive and drawn from passion and raw bloody-minded will. What disturbs her even more is how good she is at it - she is a fearsome force of nature when riled and often horrified by the aftermath of her own wrath. She's the one who wants to leave the most and will jump at any chance to do so, not so much because she's scared of danger, but because she's terrified that this might be who she truly is.
Curtis: Rogue. How best to describe Curtis? He never does things the normal way. Probably the most intellectual of the four, Curtis never attacks things head on, always trying to out-manuever obstacles and achieve the most impact while using the least effort. Curtis is very non-confrontational, preferring people to never even know he's there, and can be particularly timid in a straight up fight, but if allowed to do things his way he is quite reliable - albeit unpredictable. Curtis doesn't dislike being in the game, but does worry how his mother is faring without him around.
RJ: Bard. RJ has not had an easy life. Raised in a particularly dysfunctional family in an unpleasant corner of town, he skates through his days on well-honed people skills to keep himself out of trouble at home, in school, and especially in the neighborhood. A born actor, he slips between roles fluidly to fit in with whatever crowd he falls into and can play people like a harp. What few people realise is that RJ has a gift for tactical thought and enjoys games like chess, though he hides this to protect his image. RJ dreams of being something more than he is, but doesn't really believe it to be possible. Of the four, RJ displays the least opinion of being in the game, as he has a fatalistic belief that he'll never be able to escape his old life for long.
I don't know. Would that be an interesting lead cast?
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Just because I'm a little bored at the moment, I wrote up some characters that could serve as the PoV cast:
Spoiler
Sam (Short for Samantha): Fighter. An avid athlete and a bit of a tomboy, Sam enjoys physical solutions to problems. She's not stupid, mind you - in fact she displays quite a bit of intelligence in how she fight - but she prefers to play to her strength, and that is, well, her strength. She tends to act on impulse more than the others and does not back down even when outclassed. Probably the happiest to be in the game, because there she can be who she wants to be rather than what everyone expects her to be.
Lisa: Sorceress. A shy, gentle soul with a surplus of empathy, Lisa feels there must have been some sort of mistake in attaining her class. Instead of becoming something passive or supportive, like a cleric or a druid or even a ranger, the powers she realizes are aggressive and destructive and drawn from passion and raw bloody-minded will. What disturbs her even more is how good she is at it - she is a fearsome force of nature when riled and often horrified by the aftermath of her own wrath. She's the one who wants to leave the most and will jump at any chance to do so, not so much because she's scared of danger, but because she's terrified that this might be who she truly is.
Curtis: Rogue. How best to describe Curtis? He never does things the normal way. Probably the most intellectual of the four, Curtis never attacks things head on, always trying to out-manuever obstacles and achieve the most impact while using the least effort. Curtis is very non-confrontational, preferring people to never even know he's there, and can be particularly timid in a straight up fight, but if allowed to do things his way he is quite reliable - albeit unpredictable. Curtis doesn't dislike being in the game, but does worry how his mother is faring without him around.
RJ: Bard. RJ has not had an easy life. Raised in a particularly dysfunctional family in an unpleasant corner of town, he skates through his days on well-honed people skills to keep himself out of trouble at home, in school, and especially in the neighborhood. A born actor, he slips between roles fluidly to fit in with whatever crowd he falls into and can play people like a harp. What few people realise is that RJ has a gift for tactical thought and enjoys games like chess, though he hides this to protect his image. RJ dreams of being something more than he is, but doesn't really believe it to be possible. Of the four, RJ displays the least opinion of being in the game, as he has a fatalistic belief that he'll never be able to escape his old life for long.
I don't know. Would that be an interesting lead cast?
That would be awesome.
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A new Hero on a new quest.Villains both old and new. Allies and Enemies of all kinds.
A dual-wielding Hero with an idealistic heart. An ancient, magical, sentient sword with a sarcastic and snide sense of humor whose spirit takes the form of a girl. A conflicted mercenary with split loyalties. A former assassin with the powers of a Sage. It is a new tale of destiny in the land of Hyrule. The Legend of Zelda: Sword of Souls! (my fanfic)
I agree. I particularly like Lisa, but all four characters seem fresh, relatable, and have a good balance of embracing and subverting established tropes.
Personally I really don’t like the idea of a group being transported into a fantasy world. D&D already did that. Why recycle the same old concept? They don’t write their books that way, why do it for a TV show?
My feel is that it would help an audience member relate to the characters more, and that it is kind of the feel of what an RPG is all about (transporting yourself to a fantasy world)
I would want Eberron (since Spelljammer is probably off the table due to its narmyness).
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Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes
Finding out that the ennui and cynicism of our times is not, after all, an unavoidable unreverseable fate does kind of throw your world-view off, potentially.
Personally I really don’t like the idea of a group being transported into a fantasy world. D&D already did that. Why recycle the same old concept? They don’t write their books that way, why do it for a TV show?
Two reasons:
1) Everything old is new again. We've had new ghostbusters, new He Man, new GI Joe, new... everything. Resurrecting the old ideas with a modern perspective has been working for them so far.
2) Ignoring the real-world aspect of the game (or at least the peculiarities of the rules) reduces D&D stories to mere generic fantasy with a few consistent elements. It's the interplay between real world mentality and fantasy world setting that makes the concept so intriguing.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
I agree with not trasporting the players to the world. I like the way it was handled in "Gamers: Dorkness Rising." I wouldn't mind seeing a Animated show, or a live action show done in this manner. It would DEFINATLY have to be made By Geeks though. Whenever the suits try make shows like this it...just no.
Perhaps they aren't the only ones hopping from plane to plane? Maybe they aren't even the only characters from Earth trying to get back home?
I had a mad idea for some fan-fic about the old D&D show.
Turns out that Dungeon Master has been trying this 'arm a bunch of earth kids, send them against the evils of the land and hope for the best' thing for quite some time...
Our heroes eventually discover the remains of some of the last nine groups (all killed in various gruesome ways while on one of D.M.s little fetch quests), and then run into the only other extant band of earthings - who've gone rogue and are now using their magical weapons to brutally rule their own little fiefdom...
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I have a cookie now! (::) I've licked it, so no backsies.
I'm normally one of the most vocal critics (when the opportunity arises) of the old "white man conquer aborigine land" story trope, of which the AD&D cartoon is a form of.
But in this cartoon's case, I agree that the trope's use is fitting, is not insulting, and makes it unique from Conan/He-man type cartoons.
I also agree that it's a good idea for the core cast to jump worlds between each season. But not between every few episodes, that would be too fast.
I'd prefer it to be a specific D&D setting rather than 'D&D'.
Eberron: The Animated Series intrigues me a lot, and I liked Dragonlance universe for fiction, if not as a role playing world.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calanon
Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding
I wouldn't mind seeing an animated version of some of the more modern D&D comics,
Although, if I had creative freedom over the matter and was interested in creating something new. I think I would take my cues from Black Rock Shooter, the game/anime/manga or I suppose -- the movie Wizard of Oz.
Mirror the dramatic real-world trials and tribulations of young adults with fantasy-world counterparts. Whether it's the teenagers who are dreaming of themselves as adventurers or adventurers who are having dreams of being mundane high school students is left to speculation. Either can be considered the abstract representation of the other's persona. Adding, I think, poignancy to their choices in both realities and what form their antagonists take.
Anyways,
I would attempt to devise a setting specific to the show, you're telling the story of the protagonists primarily. Sort of like Adventure Time, leaving most of the world undefined is a far more reasonable in a comic or cartoon.
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Re: What would you expect in a new dnd cartoon?
I would model the show on something like Avatar, the Clone Wars or Naruto, rather than the old D&D cartoon (which I never liked, even as a child). I very particularly dislike the tired old cliche of bringing characters from Earth - I'd go as far as saying, if you're really insistant on going to do that, DON'T have them coming from America or Japan (or Europe, to a lesser extent), pick somewhere totally different and maybe a bit obscure for a change, and let them have a bit of limelight for a change. ("Relatability" as pertains to "what The Networks in particular think is 'relatable'" can go die in a fire... Good shows have characters that are relatable, regardless of age or species.)
And make the language barrier matter, too, not just have everyone convieniantly speaking English which equals Common (have them speaking English (or viewing language as appropriate) as translated to the viewer, yes), make them work for it a bit.
But better yet, just don't start with humans native to Earth, just use the same level of creativity displayed by a lot of fantasy writers, who write about young characters (also see aforementioned Naruto/Avatar etc etc). It wouldn't be difficult to kick of the show and the myth arc by creating a situation which forces a group of young people (heck, they don't even have to be children, really - or all humans, for that matter) into forming an adventuring party, with the goal of solving whatever the myth arc is. (Shows with a continiguous storyline are generally better than those without, and you still have plenty of wriggle room for writing what you like in between.) Plus, of course, like all good DMs, there's always another, bigger bad guy if you knobble that last one, because D&D.
(Heck, I might even go as far as suggesting you see the Big Bad in the first episode, and not again until season two or three.)
In any case, I'd follow the maturity level of Clone Wars or Naruto, and have people, y'know, get injured and die. (CW manages to do it quite brutally onscreen because they don't have to have blood; while with swords it might be harder, you could manage it other ways, or just resign yourself that - for once - it's not going to be for children, and pitch it for the 12A audience that, y'know, the Lord of the Rings/Hobbit films were/are.)
Last edited by Aotrs Commander : 09-08-2012 at 06:58 AM.
The thing is, as has been said, if you don't do the "Earth kids in a strange land" theme... then this cartoon is no different from all the other cartoons which takes place in its own self-contained universe. We already have ATLA, Naruto, and Record of Lodoss War. What does D&D bring to the table that is unique? Answer: Being D&D, a game world navigated by genre-savvy players.
Plenty of anime do this too, and they reap the benefit of the trope.
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Re: What would you expect in a new dnd cartoon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLai
The thing is, as has been said, if you don't do the "Earth kids in a strange land" theme... then this cartoon is no different from all the other cartoons which takes place in its own self-contained universe. We already have ATLA, Naruto, and Record of Lodoss War. What does D&D bring to the table that is unique? Answer: Being D&D, a game world navigated by genre-savvy players.
Plenty of anime do this too, and they reap the benefit of the trope.
The counter to that is the question, what it is bringing to the table that's different from all the dozens of other cartoons/anime that also do the "Earth kids in a strange land?" (Including it's own forerunner?) Which happens more often than the reverse...
I have always found - even as a child - the whole "Earth people in a strange land" to be somewhat poor excuse for creativity (because it takes less effort to crowbar in Earth characters than actually come up with fresh characters a fresh culture that doesn't rely on pop-culture dialogue (of the time period in question)) and often, at worst with "children's" entertainment, what some suit thinks all the cool kids will be "into" ;and most damning of all, immersion breaking (along with the tacit admission that "Earth" is the only important place, because the Strange Lands can't themselves deal with their own problems without outside help).
So, yeah, if you're going to do it, then okay, but at least give it really fresh angle. Like I say, don't use Americans/Europeans/Japanese, and/or maybe, don't even use contempories. (I dunno, use Aztecs or Romans or, say, 13th century Chinese or something.)
Actually, the more I think about it, the latter would be by far the better option, period. Have a crowd of, say, Ancient Egyptian children/young people or something, and have them gaze in awe at the wonders of The Future as your POV characters. (Romans would be a good one, too, because there would be somethings that would be amazing to them, and others that would be primitive.) Now THAT would be different and creative.
(Plus, adding a bit of history into the entertainment wouldn't go amiss, now would it?)
Edit: In fact, it occurs that the other advantage is, if you set it up right, the Earth people would not need to have the desire to return home to their families (the Romans come from Pompeii - perhaps the eruption was caused BY the BBEG in his attempt to conquer a new world, or from the fall of the First Empire in Egypt or something), and the story can be about something other than their attempts to get home. Which a) has already been done, b) runs the risk of giving you either an Endless Quest (dull) or a strict cap on the length when the goal is achieved (with potential dubious undoing of the end when it's decided to do One More Season/the Movie.) It'd give you a more open-ended myth arc, because it wouldn't have to end with "beat BBEG."
Last edited by Aotrs Commander : 09-08-2012 at 09:02 AM.
An Egyptian feeling culture-shock over the existence of medieval technology and social structures may be interesting if handled by someone who did their homework, but the concept doesn't play itself out very well considering we (the general viewing audience, at least) know next to nothing of the context from which this person is perceiving everything. Furthermore, older than feudalism morality and perspectives would not lend themselves to a D&D setting. You'd more likely get a cardboard cut-out figure, or someone who's utterly unsympathetic or completely incomprehensible.
I think, as has been suggested, what would be different about a D&D cartoon from others is an intelligent self-awareness of fantasy conventions by it participants.
Although...
If we accept that argument of trying to be the non-Narnia, it might be preferable to have the protagonists come from some future society. Possibly providing an SF hand-wave as to how they got stuck into a fantasy reality to begin with. It would profit from a sense of demystification, alienation from modern perspectives and technologies, and the aforementioned implicit awareness of fantasy tropes.
Or have it set in the future where the remaints of the technology we take for granted are held with an almost reverent fascination by the residents of the time maybe even misunderstood.
Could even have the main characters not realise they aren't the first to travel to this world and meet up with other survivors some good, some bad and so on.
Think Wizards & Warriors but with a D&D spin.
The "monsters" are either mutated or in the cases of humanoids actually mutated offshoots of humanity with elves living in forests, dwarves under mountains, halflings farmers with burrows, gnomes live under hills and humans living above ground unaware that rather than being the weakest of the races they're actually what every other race evolved from.
Well except the animal evolved ones!
Could even have new deities such as Marlon Brando, Gary Gygax, Godzilla/Gojira but don't go anywhere near Twilight please!!!!
Imagine if the society evolved from reading the works of JR Tolkien?!
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Re: What would you expect in a new dnd cartoon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
An Egyptian feeling culture-shock over the existence of medieval technology and social structures may be interesting if handled by someone who did their homework, but the concept doesn't play itself out very well considering we (the general viewing audience, at least) know next to nothing of the context from which this person is perceiving everything. Furthermore, older than feudalism morality and perspectives would not lend themselves to a D&D setting. You'd more likely get a cardboard cut-out figure, or someone who's utterly unsympathetic or completely incomprehensible.
Well, no, not really. How is it any different to a self-contained world? Avatar/ the Hobbit (etc) managed perfectly fine when having the POV character from a culture we knew nothing about (the former even better than the latter). It can be done perfectly fine and understandably, because it has been.
(And as the morality, that's why you'd have a younger crowd - with more flexible outlooks - because, well, learning that there are different ways would give said characters some more interesting character development to go through than just gape in awe/save the day (because their culture makes them better at solving the problems of foreign cultures than the foreign cultures are...) or the usual Disney-family-based aesops.)
I just really dislike the idea of cutting and pasting modern (western, if we're specifically talking about D&D-genera-savvy player-insert) characters into, well, anything that isn't modern. There have been very, very few things that have attempted this and not come off as forced (Farscape, maybe) or gimmicky.
Hell, that's not even how we (i.e. collectively modally) even PLAY D&D, is it? Surely a D&D cartoon should best reflect what WE, the D&D players, mostly commonly do in a game, through our characters. (Who are, largely, not transplanted characters from 21st century Earth.) I mean, show of hands: how many of you would be comfortable in one guy insisting on having his a character someone that was from 21st century Earth in your, I dunno, Eberron or Realms game? Yes, I'm well aware that some of you might (but more than once? Even if the characters were well-played and totally different each time?), but by far from all of the community, I think (I won't presume to even hazard a guess as to the split). I think the same principle applies here.
It just feels... wrong to me. As wrong as having a Jedi in a Stargate SG-1 game, or I dunno, a random Saiyan in Mass Effect or something.
(Heck OotS itself, if you toned back a bit on some of the forth-wall humour, would be perfectly capable of illustrating genera savvy through its own internal characters without having external characters show up from some other world.)
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I know what you're thinking. "Did he prepare six Explosive Runes this morning or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is the 3rd level spell Explosive Runes, the most powerful Abjuration in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
@those who say that bringing in people from modern Earth would be lazy:
You know, some people actually LIKE "fish out of water" stories wherein the main character(s) are transplanted from their home world to the primary world of the story. It's not necessarily lazy writing, and it can be done very well. You might not like it, but hey, some people don't like fantasy at all. Some people don't like sci-fi. Some people don't like fiction, period. So... ymmv depending on your tastes.
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A new Hero on a new quest.Villains both old and new. Allies and Enemies of all kinds.
A dual-wielding Hero with an idealistic heart. An ancient, magical, sentient sword with a sarcastic and snide sense of humor whose spirit takes the form of a girl. A conflicted mercenary with split loyalties. A former assassin with the powers of a Sage. It is a new tale of destiny in the land of Hyrule. The Legend of Zelda: Sword of Souls! (my fanfic)
I had a mad idea for some fan-fic about the old D&D show.
Turns out that Dungeon Master has been trying this 'arm a bunch of earth kids, send them against the evils of the land and hope for the best' thing for quite some time...
Our heroes eventually discover the remains of some of the last nine groups (all killed in various gruesome ways while on one of D.M.s little fetch quests), and then run into the only other extant band of earthings - who've gone rogue and are now using their magical weapons to brutally rule their own little fiefdom...
TAKE MY MONEY!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladams707
What the officer of the salient said.
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Originally Posted by Fox Mulder
I did not lie, I willfully participated in a campaign of misinformation
Well, no, not really. How is it any different to a self-contained world? Avatar/ the Hobbit (etc) managed perfectly fine when having the POV character from a culture we knew nothing about (the former even better than the latter). It can be done perfectly fine and understandably, because it has been.
But, Egypt and Rome aren't fantasy societies. Neither the Avatar or Halflings are alien to their world. They were both fish-out-of-water stories to a degree, but nothing so much as you're purposing. A character from an imaginary society can have whatever worldview you wish to give it, of course it would be consistent with everything else you've imagined so long as you maintain Aristotelian continuity. When you specify an actual historical event or society -- you've got homework to do -- which most of us aren't interested in doing for a mere D&D cartoon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
(And as the morality, that's why you'd have a younger crowd - with more flexible outlooks - because, well, learning that there are different ways would give said characters some more interesting character development to go through than just gape in awe/save the day (because their culture makes them better at solving the problems of foreign cultures than the foreign cultures are...) or the usual Disney-family-based aesops.)
A) It's a D&D cartoon were speculating about, which has a strict objective sense of morality based on modern humanist paradigms.
B) Flexibility is fine, but antiquated societies hold views and assumptions which are reprehensible and irrational by most contemporary definitions. Things like moral relativism and a globalized society are reasonably new, even by modern standards. "Flexibility" of thought is far less likely of individuals from most of history, More likely, you'd experience far more moral dissonance as they bring their own prejudices and ignorance to the surface. This is assuming people know how to write such a character in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
I just really dislike the idea of cutting and pasting modern (western, if we're specifically talking about D&D-genera-savvy player-insert) characters into, well, anything that isn't modern. There have been very, very few things that have attempted this and not come off as forced (Farscape, maybe) or gimmicky.
It can be done, The Twelve Kingdoms, Vision of Escaflowne, Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi, Brave Story, to mention a few anime -- but there are more bad than good as with any genera or trope. It all depends on the writing. The first D&D cartoon was absolutely horrendous in actually portraying D&D in it's complexity and was universally annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
Hell, that's not even how we (i.e. collectively modally) even PLAY D&D, is it? Surely a D&D cartoon should best reflect what WE, the D&D players, mostly commonly do in a game, through our characters. (Who are, largely, not transplanted characters from 21st century Earth.) I mean, show of hands: how many of you would be comfortable in one guy insisting on having his a character someone that was from 21st century Earth in your, I dunno, Eberron or Realms game? Yes, I'm well aware that some of you might (but more than once? Even if the characters were well-played and totally different each time?), but by far from all of the community, I think (I won't presume to even hazard a guess as to the split). I think the same principle applies here.
It just feels... wrong to me. As wrong as having a Jedi in a Stargate SG-1 game, or I dunno, a random Saiyan in Mass Effect or something.
(Heck OotS itself, if you toned back a bit on some of the forth-wall humour, would be perfectly capable of illustrating genera savvy through its own internal characters without having external characters show up from some other world.)
The closest thing to a modern D&D cartoon we have is Adventure Time, it's genera saavy, modern and funny in the absurd range -- or on the other hand the animated movie that came out for Dragon Age II, which falls somewhere in the grimdark gore-fest range. I think something in between the two could be interesting.
I suggested before, that rather than supplanting the characters from their modern setting, or simply having a nominal generic fantasy setting and calling it D&D -- the two worlds exists side-by-side, each seen as a dream world to the other. Characters who's basic persona is reborn each night as a symbol of their idealized form of power -- a ranger, fighter, mage, rogue, cleric and so on -- who undertake quests and combat problems which have an underlying subtext derived from events in the "real world". Their fantasy counterparts are not, however, from the 21st century.
If you want an example of what I mean, Micheal Moorcock's concept of cosmic twins/doppelgangers who represent the same essence in infinite realities -- fighting the same basic battle in countless forms.
Last edited by Kitten Champion : 09-09-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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What would you expect in a new dnd cartoon?
