[VS] Zombie free-for-all

[Flickerdart]

Pennsylvania has been struck by the Green Flu. Atlanta is ravaged by the walkers. The Rage virus has broken out in Cambridge. Cases of Solanum infections have been confirmed all over the world.

The zombie apocalypse is upon us. Which one? All of them! With so many outbreaks all over the place, humanity is swiftly overwhelmed with no survivors, and now the zombies must fight the other kinds of zombies to "survive" themselves.

Ground rules: The zombies can only multiply using living humans, none of which remain. Biting a different kind of zombie doesn't do anything. Even though they don't need to be called zombies to compete, only shambling brain-eating humanoid mindless undead count (no "I Am Legend" vampires, for instance). Virus, gypsy curse, magic spell, mad science, doesn't matter. There's zero chance of amicable resolution. The only way this ends is when only one type of zombie remains. Zombies can distinguish between "us" and "them", where "them" is any kind of zombie generated via a method different from their own.

Personally, I would put up the Left 4 Dead zombies as the champion to dethrone. The run of the mill zombies are quite decent (they can run, climb, and slow down targets), and there are some uncommon variants (SWAT zombies have armour, for instance) but the real superstars are the Special Infected. A Spitter's acidic goo would be deadly to regular stupid zombies, and a Tank is practically indestructible. The Specials are very few in number, though, and a zombie horde that can bring more bodies to the battle will likely be able to overpower them. Given that it's possible to be immune to the Green Flu, and its localized nature in-universe, it can be argued that the L4D zombies will number significantly fewer than a more far-reaching plague, which is a major weakness in this scenario.

[Traab]

So im guessing no lich king controlled undead ghoul swarms? How about with no lich king controlling them? They are mindless creatures, and they are made for battle.

[The Glyphstone]

Where does live state Kellis-Amberlee Syndrome manifest?

[Forum Explorer]

I'm giving it to the zombies from Resident Evil. While the standard one is pretty worthless they still have some sort of rudimentary intelligence and can operate machinery. The uber zombie monsters are also pretty devastating requiring some extremely heavy firepower to drop.

[darkblade]

The Rage Virus zombies are technically speaking still alive and therefore considered food to the other zombies. Their own infection might stop others from taking hold but they others would still consider them food and swarm them.

The rest would just ignore each other until they start to rot away as they are all dead and not considering each other food.

[MLai]

Resident Evil boss zombies.
I'm sure the beat out the L4D special zombies in terms of boss power. Veronica is pretty much Mrs. Cthulhu.

[Flickerdart]

Originally Posted by Traab

So im guessing no lich king controlled undead ghoul swarms? How about with no lich king controlling them? They are mindless creatures, and they are made for battle.

Do they eat brains?

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Where does live state Kellis-Amberlee Syndrome manifest?

I'm afraid I don't know what that is.

Originally Posted by darkblade

The Rage Virus zombies are technically speaking still alive and therefore considered food to the other zombies. Their own infection might stop others from taking hold but they others would still consider them food and swarm them.

The rest would just ignore each other until they start to rot away as they are all dead and not considering each other food.

The premise is that they can still eat the brains of other zombies, and treat them just like they would living prey.

[Traab]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Do they eat brains?


I'm afraid I don't know what that is.


The premise is that they can still eat the brains of other zombies, and treat them just like they would living prey.

They cannibalize bodies to heal themselves. So yes. They eat brains, livers, lungs, legs, faces, etc. The fact that they can heal themselves by eating flesh would make them even more terrible than the fact that they are meant to be combat troops.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

I'm afraid I don't know what that is.

Viral zombies from the Newsflesh trilogy - reanimated corpses 'run' by a virus that infects the central nervous system, can infect and take control of any living or dead mammal heavier than 40 kilograms via biting or bodily fluids. They're basically classic Romero shamblers (it's why humanity survives the zombie apocalypse in their respective series), but exhibit a hive-mind-ish trait of increased tactical and strategic ability the bigger their mob is, including things like ambushes and feigning injury.

No Special Infected or boss-zombies, but if KA is allowed to 'infect' other zombies since the rules of the scenario treat rival zombie strains as valid targets, they could get real scary real fast.

[Flickerdart]

To avoid silliness, rival zombie strains are only targets in that the zombies think they can eat them, not actual living flesh - so they wouldn't be able to be "turned", and wouldn't heal the ghouls. The only chance a zombie side gets to bolster their horde is at the beginning, before they start fighting among one another.

Still, having tactical ability gives those guys quite the edge. Can they pilot a gunship?

[Tiki Snakes]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

To avoid silliness, rival zombie strains are only targets in that the zombies think they can eat them, not actual living flesh - so they wouldn't be able to be "turned", and wouldn't heal the ghouls. The only chance a zombie side gets to bolster their horde is at the beginning, before they start fighting among one another.

Still, having tactical ability gives those guys quite the edge. Can they pilot a gunship?

Even other ghouls heal the warcraft style ghouls though. And what about the various types that simply cause dead bodies to rise up? killing a rage zombie should, rationally, lead to more of that type as long as it's within the aura of the effect or however it works in that particular case.
(Such as the entire world, in the case of Hell-is-full style zombies, though they are usually full romero shamblers and not that threatening otherwise).

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

To avoid silliness, rival zombie strains are only targets in that the zombies think they can eat them, not actual living flesh - so they wouldn't be able to be "turned", and wouldn't heal the ghouls. The only chance a zombie side gets to bolster their horde is at the beginning, before they start fighting among one another.

Still, having tactical ability gives those guys quite the edge. Can they pilot a gunship?

They're not smart enough to drive a car (at least, not on-screen in any book of the trilogy), or for that matter even to figure out how to open the door of a car they can't smash the window out of, so probably not. Their tactical acumen only extends to things that directly aid their hunting ability, more like animal cunning than intelligence - and of course, the downside to this is that their tactical smartness decreases in proportion to the percentage of their mob that you kill.

They also vary in their physical ability, since they're dead bodies - freshly created KA shamblers are as strong and agile as a normal human, including the ability to run and sprint, but if they can't feed (they will eat each other if they have to, though any other meat is preferable), their bodies start to break down and rot.

[Flickerdart]

Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes

Even other ghouls heal the warcraft style ghouls though. And what about the various types that simply cause dead bodies to rise up? killing a rage zombie should, rationally, lead to more of that type as long as it's within the aura of the effect or however it works in that particular case.
(Such as the entire world, in the case of Hell-is-full style zombies, though they are usually full romero shamblers and not that threatening otherwise).

Can they animate things that were already zombies?

[Tyndmyr]

Who wins? I do, through superior firepower.

Among the zombies, though, it basically has to be L4D or RE zombies. In both cases, because of the special zombies...your bog standard shambler isn't that impressive, especially not up against one of the more overtly powerful mutated varieties. I'd actually go with L4D overall. Why? Well, at least their shamblers run. RE ones don't. That makes the masses significantly more relevant.

[HandofShadows]

The infected from L4D and the people infected with the Rage virus are both still alive. In fact in many respects they are similar. The Green Flu is certainly worse though. It spreads more easily (airborn in some cases) and some people mutate into super powerful monsters. Like the Rage virus and Green Flu, Resident Evil zombies are the creation of a virus and are still alive. Some the other RE mutations are more powerful than the L4D infected, but there seems to be fewer them. So L4D probably wins there. Of course this odes assume that the viruses are unable to infect someone who has already been infected by a different virus. Or we could see a Tyrant/Tank.

A bit of a different kind of zombie comes from the Half Life video games. A person attacked by a creature called a headcrab is mutated into a monster. These zombies are slow, but very strong. Half Life 2 gives us two more types. A fast one able to climb and jump. And Poison Zombie thuat hurles poison headcrabs at the enemy. If you get hit the headcrab injects a nasty does of neutotoxin. Against the Infetced these zombies would do well and could even win. Against true undead zombies they would loose though.

Romero (Undead) Zombies are very tough to "kill". But they are slow and not very smart in most cases. But they would still beat the standard Infected for L4D, Rage and RE. But L4D and RE Speacials would destroy Romera style zombies.

A relative of the Remoro Zombie is the Trioxin Zombie from the Living Dead series. These guys are almost are really hard to stop. For one they still retain their intelligence though they are consumed by hunger for brainzzzz. They very strong and nearly impossible to "kill". Chop off the head and the body still tries to get you. And destroying the brain does not even slow them down. Only near total destruction of the body (incineration, chopped up into very small pieces, electrocution) will stop them.

Winner: Trioxin Zombies.

[Starbuck_II]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

Only near total destruction of the body (incineration, chopped up into very small pieces, electrocution) will stop them.

Winner: Trioxin Zombies.

Nah, it says any powerful elecrical discharge works. Not just destruction of the body.

[Kyberwulf]

I would like to ask something. What do we count as Zombies, and what do we count as something else? Because I think some of the things that are being discussed are not zombies. Such as the many creatures of "Resident Evil". Most are not "zombies", but are different types of experiements. Same deal with "Left 4 Dead". Not all of the creatures in the game are Zombies, per se. They are different classifications of what the game calls, "The Infected."

[Flickerdart]

If it's most of the following: dumb, runs around in bunches, can turn its victims into more of its kind (or otherwise multiply really quickly), and hungers for braaaaaains then it counts. Basically, if it's conceptually a zombie, regardless of its origin, it's good to go.

[Tiki Snakes]

I think the brains thing is unfair, given that very few zombie types actually hunger for brains as such. Flesh of the living? That's more the usual.

[Kyberwulf]

yeah..That's Necroism.. -_o Not all Zombies eat brains.

[DaedalusMkV]

Oh, that's the definition we're running with, then?

The Necromorphs from Dead Space win. Every one of them is easily on par with a Special Infected in offensive power and far, far harder to kill. Nimble, sneaky, cunningly intelligent to the point of playing dead, laying ambushes and using hit-and-run tactics, strong enough to tear apart Powered Armour and capable of manipulating their biology on the fly and stacking on biomass to their base forms to create bigger, more dangerous creatures. Use ranged attacks. Use bio-organic explosives. Have a track reckord of making babies into effective enough combat units to wipe out fully trained space marines. I don't think zombie apocalypses get much meaner than this.

Only thing I can think of that might stand up to the 'Morphs are the Flood, being essentially reanimated corpses, but if they only have access to modern weaponry they're going to have a hell of a time trying to take down the Necromorphs.

[HandofShadows]

The Necromorphs (and Flood) are alien species that use bodies as raw materials. So they are not the "Virus" and would not count.

[MLai]

Actually a lot of the RE monsters are not alive at all. They're simply both dead and mutated. For example, the Tyrant, the Nemesis, and their variants are not alive.

That's my impression unless Capcom canon says they're alive, but just gross bloodthirsty mutants.

[Tiki Snakes]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

The Necromorphs (and Flood) are alien species that use bodies as raw materials. So they are not the "Virus" and would not count.

Stuff from outer space is one of the classic zombie origins.
Edit : Also

Spoiler

I seem to recall they were created by the Beacon. Which was man-made anyway.

[HandofShadows]

Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes

Stuff from outer space is one of the classic zombie origins.

Does this look like a zombie? Or this? Nope. The only reason the necromorph resemble anything human is because their parts where human. As time goes on little or nothing even resembling humanity remains.

Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes

Edit : Also

Spoiler

I seem to recall they were created by the Beacon. Which was man-made anyway.

Spoiler

The original Black Marker (not Beacon) is of alien manufacture. The Red Marker is a man made copy of the Black Marker and it is NOT known how it works. So it is still quite alien. Also the Markers seem to supress the Necormorphs, not create them.

[The Succubus]

I think perhaps we should start classifying zombie species.


Berserkers: First noted appearence in Dawn of the Dead (remake). These zombies exhibit the classical swarm mentality seen in many other zombie types (such as the Shamblers from George A Romero's original trilogy) but also possesing the speed of Rage Victims. Confirmed as being undead, with headshot technique being the only efective means of disposal. Their contagion factor is fairly low however, given that the virus only appears to be transmitted via a bite.

Threat rating: 4.5 / 5 Brains


Rage Victim: First appeared in 28 Days Later, swiftly followed by 28 Weeks Later. These fail one classical zombie test in that they are alive and can be dispatched by shots to the torso and limbs, rather than just standard headshot technique. They also suffer heavy bleeding and can starve to death. Despite these drawbacks, they possess great speed and strength, fueled as they are by some mutated form of rabies. They are also a significant biohazard as even after death, a single drop of blood is enough to infect a victim and create a Rager within ten seconds of infection.

Threat rating: 3 / 5 Brains

[Traab]

Lich King Ghouls: They are mindless creatures normally, but very aggressive towards anything not them. Their form of undeath is, I believe, noncommunicable. I think they are raised through magic mostly. But they have the ability to heal themselves from damage by devouring flesh. They are a soldier unit, so can be expected to cause more damage then most normal zombies, and can run down even cavalry, so they are fairly fast as well. Their final ability is a curious one, but they are accomplished at harvesting lumber from trees. This may seem useless on the surface, but if they can tear down trees, what can they do to walls and such?

[The Glyphstone]

I'd be careful not to try and translate game-convention stuff like that directly...in Warcraft 3, Ghouls are the lumber-harvesting unit because Undead need a harvester. But you don't, for example, see them doing anything like that in World of Warcraft, though they retain traits like the ability to cannibalize corpses for health and their mindless aggressiveness. Being fast and strong are both logical traits, and consistent across various Warcraft Ghoul portrayals...but then, considering the Warcraft franchise also has several flavors of actual zombies, it's not entirely fair to use them here.

[Starbuck_II]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

The Necromorphs (and Flood) are alien species that use bodies as raw materials. So they are not the "Virus" and would not count.

Then Head crab zombies from Half life don't count. Another dimension and outer space are the same thing: both are not "here".

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

The Necromorphs (and Flood) are alien species that use bodies as raw materials. So they are not the "Virus" and would not count.

They're human corpses reanimated by an unknown energy. That energy happens to have an extraterrestrial origin. If we disallow things for extraterrestrial origins, headcrabs are out. But that's arbitrary, because at least one of the zombie apocalypses is caused by an unknown energy of extradimensional origin, which means you're creating artificial distinctions. The definition I was working with was Flickerdart's, which Necromorphs follow universally with the possible exception of the 'dumb'. They are not an alien species, they are a modification of humans. Even the Hive Mind from the first game was the resulf of the entire human colony on the planet being merged into a single gargantuan creature. The Flood are an odder case, being actual parasites that inhabit and reanimate corpses and living bodies. They look like zombies, but I could see the case opposing that, since they can exist independently of corpses. We'd still be discounting headcrab zombies, though.

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

Does this look like a zombie? Or this? Nope. The only reason the necromorph resemble anything human is because their parts where human. As time goes on little or nothing even resembling humanity remains.

Spoiler

The original Black Marker (not Beacon) is of alien manufacture. The Red Marker is a man made copy of the Black Marker and it is NOT known how it works. So it is still quite alien. Also the Markers seem to supress the Necormorphs, not create them.

If we're disallowing based on manipulation of the base form the L4D Infected should be out, too. Boomers and Spitters have wildly inhuman biologies, only resembling humans on the outside as their entire physiology has been modified to suit their new role, and Smokers are in a pretty similar place. Also, why does it matter what the source of the zombies is? If it's a mutated virus or a necromancer or a magic space rock or hell being full shouldn't matter.

I stand by my selection. Unless the definition of 'zombie' is narrowed substantially, Necromorphs are zombies and are going to win.