Twin Hooks?

Uhtred · 10-07-2012, 01:23 AM

So a buddy of mine is dm'ing for the first time and asked me to play. He knows I'm a veteran player, and that if allowed to play a Tier 1 caster or a charging melee strongman (as I am wont to do), I will break the campaign. To remedy the situation, he had me list the Core classes from preferred to least preferred, and then randomly selected a class from my bottom for with a d4 roll.

And so I am a Monk. Blech.

Not really familiar with monks in general (I am rapidly familiarizing.) I recalled that a Shaolin Monk (Raising shields...fire resistance...) had been featured on the TV show Deadliest Warrior. Wielding the single deadliest weapon featured during the first season of the show: the Twin Hook Swords. So my question is: do they have stats? Do they exist? And if so, are they Monk weapons?

Teflonknight · 10-07-2012, 02:00 AM

They definitely exist, not sure which source book. In the Secrets of Sarlona book there is a feat specifically for hook swords called Flying Tiger. It allows you to hook the swords together and use them as a reach weapon. Which they did in the show IIRC.

Kelb_Panthera · 10-07-2012, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teflonknight

They definitely exist, not sure which source book. In the Secrets of Sarlona book there is a feat specifically for hook swords called Flying Tiger. It allows you to hook the swords together and use them as a reach weapon. Which they did in the show IIRC.

That feat is in secrets of sarlona because that's the book they gave the twin hook stats in.

Yes, they are a monk weapon. Not a terribly impressive one though.

Duboris · 10-07-2012, 02:25 AM

Style points never hurt a damned thing.

Unless of course, those style points were earned while "Going out in a blaze of glory."

Regardless, reach on a monk seems nice. But, al-together, I'm not that big a fan of monks.

Dr.Epic · 10-07-2012, 02:27 AM

Let me guess, you're gonna be a character that hates fire mages above all else.

Uhtred · 10-07-2012, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Epic

Let me guess, you're gonna be a character that hates fire mages above all else.

If I was going that route, I'd be an earth-focused wu Jen, or a cleric with the earth domain. Goodness I love me some earthbenders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duboris

Regardless, reach on a monk seems nice. But, al-together, I'm not that big a fan of monks.

I agree, the reach seems handy. And yes. I am also not a fan of monks, hence them being in my Bottom 4. But lemons, lemonade, door closes, window opens, yadda yadda yadda.

Uhtred · 10-07-2012, 11:10 AM

Just availed myself of Secrets of Sarlona. There's some great stuff for Monks in here! The ability to use Stunning Fist through Monk weapons? Deeeefinitely taking that feat next level.

Duboris · 10-07-2012, 11:15 AM

There are, indeed, some scary monk feats in that book. One of which I believe is an improved version of flurry...

Uhtred · 10-07-2012, 11:22 AM

There's one that lets you choose a damage type for your unarmed strikes. And one that lets you remove someone's mental state with a successful stunning attack! Barbarians are a little less scary now that I can knock them out of Rage. And next level, I can do it through my twin hooks!

Dr.Epic · 10-08-2012, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

If I was going that route, I'd be an earth-focused wu Jen, or a cleric with the earth domain. Goodness I love me some earthbenders.

And your character would be named Rocky (even though they already made that joke in the show

).

Krazzman · 10-08-2012, 06:01 AM

Counterquestion:
Why would you break the Campaign if you are T1 or a Charger? And how does he come to this conclusion?

Another Question:
What are the others? What sort of OP-Standard is going to be used? Depending on that what do you want to get from your Monk?

Killer Angel · 10-08-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

To remedy the situation, he had me list the Core classes from preferred to least preferred, and then randomly selected a class from my bottom for with a d4 roll.

And so I am a Monk. Blech.

Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?

I can buy the need of "don't break the campaign", but seriously? there's not a middle ground, something not powerful but that you don't dislike?

laeZ1 · 10-08-2012, 03:50 PM

Hey, previous posts, lay off the new DM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

He knows I'm a veteran player, and that if allowed to play a Tier 1 caster or a charging melee strongman (as I am wont to do), I will break the campaign.

The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

Kelb_Panthera · 10-08-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?

I can buy the need of "don't break the campaign", but seriously? there's not a middle ground, something not powerful but that you don't dislike?

Don't like and dislike are not quite the same. I don't like asparagus, but I'll eat it if it's there, I dislike brussel sprouts, and I wouldn't eat them without being reasonably compensated.

More importantly, he seems to agree with the DM that if he didn't play one of the weaker classes /classes with which he's unfamiliar he'd smash the game in spite of this not being his goal.

A clever player with solid op-fu can have a good time with a monk. It just takes a little bit of creativity.

If I read right, the OP is even kinda getting into the idea now.

Biffoniacus_Furiou · 10-08-2012, 04:22 PM

Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs preferred) and Inhuman Reach from Lords of Madness gets you greater reach. You can also pick up Starspawn for wings, Deepspawn for more grapple bonuses, and even Warped Mind to get Psionic feats.

I'd recommend going Ur-Sacred Fist or Suel Arcanamach/Enlightened Fist asap.

Psyren · 10-08-2012, 04:57 PM

I know Pathfinder has hook swords, so the stats should be freely available online. Unfortunately, the only source I know of is Ultimate Equipment, and I think they're called something different there so I can't pinpoint them.

EDIT: Found them! The PF name for them is shang gou, and the original source appears to have been Ultimate Combat. They are martial light weapons, 1d4 slashing, and they have Disarm when used individually or gain Trip when wielding two of them together 1-handed. See here

Killer Angel · 10-09-2012, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laeZ1

The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

Don't like and dislike are not quite the same. I don't like asparagus, but I'll eat it if it's there, I dislike brussel sprouts, and I wouldn't eat them without being reasonably compensated.
(snip)

You have a point. Probably it was me, reading the thing in the wrong way.

Rejakor · 10-09-2012, 03:10 AM

How much monk are you required to have?

Because there's a feat in Secrets of Sarlona, Tashalatora, that stacks unarmed strike, flurry, and something else with any psionic class you multiclass into. Monk 1/Psychic Warrior X/Slayer X is a pretty cool thing to play, and a lot more monkish than straight monk.

Also, some people like optimizing characters/classes to the hilt, theoretically what could be occurring here is the DM allowing this guy to do that but making the class a monk so he stays in line with the rest of the unoptimized party.

only1doug · 10-09-2012, 03:46 AM

If you can bear to be a goblin there's a comic that features a goblin monk who uses Twin Hooks.

Sith_Happens · 10-09-2012, 05:50 AM

Darn, when I clicked this thread I was expecting it to be about the old "evil twin" plot hook...

Deth Muncher · 10-09-2012, 06:04 AM

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

Also, possibly grab the feat Improved Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. And maybe the feat that lets you grab a maneuver, like maybe one of the low level Shadow Hand ones that lets you flash step? (Or Dimension Door, for those that prefer that terminology.)

Kelb_Panthera · 10-09-2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

Also, possibly grab the feat Improved Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. And maybe the feat that lets you grab a maneuver, like maybe one of the low level Shadow Hand ones that lets you flash step? (Or Dimension Door, for those that prefer that terminology.)

Superior unarmed strike, you mean.

Shadow Jaunt (via martial study) is worth a feat, but it's use is limited being a standard action to activate. Shadow stride will come online awfully late and shadow blink is out for being too high a level, you couldn't take it before epic. I'd suggest one of the gem nightmare blade strikes from diamond mind. Concentration check to multiply damage when monks get concentration as a class skill? Yes please.

Deth Muncher · 10-09-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

Superior unarmed strike, you mean.

Yeah that one!

Sorry, I've been up all night, my brain's not where it needs to be.

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

Kelb_Panthera · 10-09-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Yeah that one!

Sorry, I've been up all night, my brain's not where it needs to be.

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

It's in complete warrior. It's not the most powerful of PrC's, but it does have a certain coolness vibe that might validate as much as a 3 level dip.

Some sort of designer brain-fart gave it a dead level at 10, so it's effectively a 9 level prestige class.

IdleMuse · 10-09-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's not the most powerful of PrC's

I remember some optimisation cheese (Possibly Biffoniacus?) that abused the Bellflower tattoo for some seriously broken stuff...

Uhtred · 10-09-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?

Yep. I was pretty pissed at first, but then I rolled for stats, picked some equipment, and had to adjust my mindset. In most campaigns I've ever played I have been a ToB frontline übercharger that blasts in with a huge weapon and mows down the mooks so the casters can blast the bosses. Lately I've had fun with Artificers and Clerics, to the point where I could competently build a Tier 1 caster if asked. With this, though, I'll essentially be the guy who stuns the bad guys so the Fighter and Rogue can do the mowing. Different, but interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laeZ1

Hey, previous posts, lay off the new DM. The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

I was very, very angry when my race, class, and backstory were all randomly pulled out of a hat and thrust into my hands with vague promises of "You'll find a way to have fun, I know it. Just deal with it. I'm DM, that's why." But he's let me play with race and concept a bit, so instead of a friar tuck sort of monk I'm a wandering shaolin type, so that's been a bit better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rejakor

How much monk are you required to have?
...
Also, some people like optimizing characters/classes to the hilt, theoretically what could be occurring here is the DM allowing this guy to do that but making the class a monk so he stays in line with the rest of the unoptimized party.

We're starting at level 5, and those five levels have to be single-classed, with at least 85% of our materials from Core, and he has to approve the stuff that isn't on a case-by-case basis. He has already said that whatever we do after those five levels is up to us, so I AM looking into prestige classes. Also yes. I have been allowed to make lemons out of lemonade, in a sense, in that EQUIPMENT can come from anywhere. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

Oh yes. That was the first non-Core source material I asked after. Then I found out he wanted me to be a Friar...:P Also, ToB has been explicitly banned. He doesn't understand it very well and wants his campaign to go smooth. In his experience playing with me, ToB makes things not go smooth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

It IS! And I'm considering it. It was just house ruled that I can enter the Shintao Monk prestige class as a Lawful Neutral, though, and that one looks pretty cool, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's in complete warrior. It's not the most powerful of PrC's, but it does have a certain coolness vibe that might validate as much as a 3 level dip.

I agree. And, honestly, Monks strike me as needing all the Cool Factor they can get, although continuing to level up his unarmed strikes, speed, AC Bonus, and Flurry are enough reason for me to stay within Monk prestige classes to do so.

only1doug · 10-09-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

I was very, very angry when my race, class, and backstory were all randomly pulled out of a hat and thrust into my hands with vague promises of "You'll find a way to have fun, I know it. Just deal with it. I'm DM, that's why." But he's let me play with race and concept a bit, so instead of a friar tuck sort of monk I'm a wandering shaolin type, so that's been a bit better.

Friar Tuck Monk was never the D&D concept, It was always a Wandering Shaolin thing, because Friar Tuck is a cleric variant.
If your GM wants you to be Friar Tuck then load up on Cleric Levels and be a Tier 1... but he changed his mind already so NM then.

Uhtred · 10-09-2012, 10:35 AM

Apparently, when explaining the concept, he sent me a picture of a Monk from Oblivion, in brown robes, with his fists up, as proof that western Monks did martial arts, too. I told him it was just a video game, and not a good one at that. And now I am a wandering Shaolin. All is well. :)

The Redwolf · 10-09-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

Apparently, when explaining the concept, he sent me a picture of a Monk from Oblivion, in brown robes, with his fists up, as proof that western Monks did martial arts, too. I told him it was just a video game, and not a good one at that. And now I am a wandering Shaolin. All is well. :)

I love Oblivion...

Sith_Happens · 10-09-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhtred

I agree. And, honestly, Monks strike me as needing all the Cool Factor they can get, although continuing to level up his unarmed strikes, speed, AC Bonus, and Flurry are enough reason for me to stay within Monk prestige classes to do so.

I'll just leave this here. (Even the the class as a whole doesn't fly, beg your DM to at least replace Fast Movement with Dance With the Elements, a.k.a. Distilled Cool Factor.)