Pathfinder Warlock Conversion Redux

alchemyprime · 10-07-2012, 11:10 AM

So I did a Warlock conversion a while back, and I have been working on it off the Playground. It has since grown to gargantuan proportions, and the results can be seen here.

Still working on it, but I figured between my tumblr and here, I could get some good feedback.

Thomar_of_Uointer · 10-07-2012, 02:04 PM

The pacts are all really nice. Good way to add variety to an otherwise typecast class.

Is creating the archon/infernal sword a standard action? Does the warlock get to add his Strength bonus to damage with it? (That's the only reason I would think it's a good idea.)

alchemyprime · 10-07-2012, 02:27 PM

The archon sword (Blade of the Heavens) does get the warlock's Strength bonus to damage. 1.5, actually, as it is a two handed weapon.

The Hellfire Blade does not, but I did add that it gets bonus damage equal to your Charisma mod, and it may attack against Touch AC as well.

They are a standard action to create, but part of their creation includes an attack if you wish. Though using a SLA next to someone gives them an AoO... decisions, decisions... It might only be a good idea for an Archonic Warlock then who has the sheild ability?

Deepbluediver · 10-07-2012, 03:01 PM

There's obviously a lot of material there, and apparently more to come. Most of what I read looks fine, except for the Angelic and other good aligned pacts. It just feels weird to me to think of an angelic warlock. If some one wanted a class powered by good-aligned outsiders, I'd rather rename and rebuild the class from the ground up with that as the intent. (no matter how you flavor it, Eldritch Blast just doesn't feel very Angelic; I recognize this is mostly a matter of opinion, just giving you my honest reaction)

Also, their are a LOT of invocations listed in there; I realize that Pathfinder basically remade sorcerers as what warlocks where in 3.5 (bloodline-influenced casters) but with an unlimited number of invocations per day, this seems sort of like a super-powered version of that. If those invocations end up doing everything I think they are going to do, what advantage does the sorcerer have over a decently-built warlock?

One other thing that I've never really understood about warlocks: why do they get the armor and weapon proficencies, and a medium BAB? Their class abilities seem almost entirely geared towards casting, and they get relatively few, if any, feats or invocations that would benefit jumping into melee combat. And unlike other casters, they can't even run out of their primary ranged attack, Eldritch Blast.
A few of your pacts may change this, but it doesn't seem to require trading off their ranged talents at all, meaning you've got a ranged attacker who can't even be weakened significantly by forcing them into melee.

Maybe this will be fixed once you finish writing the Mysterious Invocations (Army of One has promise) but without more than their names to go on, I'm not sure where this will end up.
I think you should either scrap the melee features entirely and focus on casting, or give them more support and drop the invocations down a few notches in power and/or versatility.

Thomar_of_Uointer · 10-07-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepbluediver

One other thing that I've never really understood about warlocks: why do they get the armor and weapon proficencies, and a medium BAB? Their class abilities seem almost entirely geared towards casting, and they get relatively few, if any, feats or invocations that would benefit jumping into melee combat. And unlike other casters, they can't even run out of their primary ranged attack, Eldritch Blast.

One of the invocations lets you channel your blast into a melee attack for this purpose. A viable warlock build in 3.5 involved wading into melee with a two-handed sword and laying the smack on your enemies (plus debuffs, energy damage, and other fun stuff). This is helped by the proficiencies and by the warlock's DR.

Deepbluediver · 10-07-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomar_of_Uointer

One of the invocations lets you channel your blast into a melee attack for this purpose. A viable warlock build in 3.5 involved wading into melee with a two-handed sword and laying the smack on your enemies. This is helped by the proficiencies and by the warlock's DR.

Yeah, I went back and saw that now.
None of the melee-side of things seems bad, it just feels kind of schizophrenic.

And also, with all those different invocations, it seems like it could pushthe warlock very high into Tier 2; it might help if we knew what the target level for the class was.

alchemyprime · 10-07-2012, 03:21 PM

I always hated the tier system.

To me, the warlocks were shoved into being fiendish; why would they be forced to be fiendish when they could be angelic? Plus, some of the good outsiders look just as weird as the evil ones; body language may be your only way to tell them apart. I'm honestly aimed for them to fall short of the sorcerer/wizard, and honestly, they still will. The wizard will still be able to knock out a fight in a round or two; warlocks are mostly blasters with some melee when it comes down to it.

I'm also fairly certain Sorcerer is more versatile than Warlock;Sorcerers get 49 spells known, and have enough slots they might as well be at-wills. Warlocks get around half that as at-wills (23+Detect Magic and Eldritch Blast) and most their invocations except the Mysterious ones only modify the blast. Eldritch Spear is just extra range; Vitrolic blast does Acid damage instead of untyped, etc. So they are still rather limited to being an HP damage based guy.

That being said, they need more love, and seeing him hit roughly Tier 2 level would make me happy. Hopefully this will go over well; this is mostly my "destress while I work on my splatbooks" project.