Finding Players (Recruitment)Look for players for chatroom, play-by-post, or even real-life games here. Threads will expire after 3 months, so be sure to move important information to your OOC thread.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblivion6
i dont recall ever seeing you in these parts. are you new to TW secrets?
Yeah, but I've done nation game stuff before. The Total War system (such as it is) seems like a good framework for what I want to run.
__________________
"It had a spell put on it by an old fakir," said the sergeant-major, "a very holy man. He wanted to show that fate ruled people's lives, and that those who interfered with it did so to their sorrow."
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
TW games don't take up too much time, so if it sounds interesting I might play. no promises though as I am a bit busy. Depends on how interesting the pitch is.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Whelp, my game is up. It's called "Vistas of a New World". As I said, it's a fantasy game, but, as should be immediately obvious, it's not a normal fantasy game. It's also different from the normal Total War game since you're in charge of a single department instead of a nation (though that's likely to change relatively quickly).
Check it out!
__________________
"It had a spell put on it by an old fakir," said the sergeant-major, "a very holy man. He wanted to show that fate ruled people's lives, and that those who interfered with it did so to their sorrow."
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
I just updated the TW Wiki a bit. It should be slightly more useful as an introduction to the game now. Does anyone have any ideas on what else I should add when I have time?
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Just going to say that hydro has done a good job of updating the wiki. It's actually got an EoT explanation now, which is something that almost always gets asked by new players.
If anyone else wants to help they are welcome to as well.
Last edited by ArcaneStomper : 10-30-2012 at 03:49 PM.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
In case people are still interested I am still planning to run the The Interstellar Voyages of the Green Star at some point. However I still have two games running right now, and for once I want to get everything fine tuned before I start the game.
To that end I have decided to be a bit more open about the rules I will be using than I normally am, and post my rules here as I work on them so people can comment, and maybe help me make it a more stable game when it does start.
The Interstellar Voyages of the Green Star
Spoiler
In the far future the galaxy teams with life. Millions of worlds bustle with energy as a thousand races go about their lives. But for all their energy, for all their unfailing drive to grow and expand, the races of the galaxies are inherently restrained by a limit that they cannot breach. For the secret to exceeding the speed of light, or even approaching it, lies beyond their greatest scientists. A billion genius minds have considered the problem, but to no avail. Immense communication lasers propagate news through the galaxy at the speed of light, but it is merely a placebo, an unworthy substitute for the FTL drive so many races crave.
So many, but one. For amongst all the races of the Universe one race has mastered the light limit. The oldest of races, some call them the progenitors. Some call them ancients. But most call them a variety of unpleasant insults. For that race is long dead, and they did not see fit to leave their secrets behind for the younger races to uncover. But the proof of their knowledge is all too clear. An fleet of enormous starships, engineered out of the very stuff of life, and equipped with the unimaginably powerful engines that are the only things capable of breaking the barrier the universe has imposed on everyone else.
How many of these ships roam the galaxy, hundreds, thousands, a huge number surely, but compared to the teaming trillions of sentients which populate the galactic worlds, one which is far too small. Many races have tried to crack the secrets of those starships to capture and study them. But the ancient ones built too well. Whole war fleets have been annihilated by the weapons of the great ships. Entire worlds turned to ash by those who went to far in their prying. And of course once they leave a system there is no catching them.
But those wars occurred millenia ago. Occasionally a government forgets the past and tries again, failing of course, but for the most part the many races have learned to live with it. For while the Star Whales might not be willing to share their secrets they are willing to do other things. Specifically they allow other races to travel with them. And more than a few do. Entire civilizations have become passengers on the leviathans as they make their way across the stars. Of course it is no certain thing. The Star Whales do not make their destinations known or give warning when they are going to depart.
But that is a gamble many are willing to take. And when the Star Whales flash into a new system the space around them boils with activity as millions of galactic hitchhikers seek to trade with the system's inhabitants, explore for artifacts, set up new colonies, and a thousand other varied activities before the Star Whale once more vanishes into the deeps of space.
This is the tale of all the diverse inhabitants of one particular Star Whale. From the civilizations which have spent so long in her bowels they have forgotten space to the newest factions which boarded at her last port of call. She has many names, as many as she has passengers to speak them, but in the common tongue she is called the Green Star and these are her voyages.
Rules (Very Rough Draft)
Spoiler
Things to interact with (Very much in progress)
Spoiler
The Universe
Systems to be visited
The Natives
The inhabitants of those systems.
The Neighbors
The other factions on board the ship.
The Ship
The Green Star is very much it's own entity.
Stats
Spoiler
Stat will be using a quantity vs quality system. The quality determines the dice rolled. The quantity determines the number of die. Quality itself will be determined by a quality pool. The quality pool divided by the quantity and a multiplier (and rounded to the nearest whole number) is the quality level. This means that it is progressively harder to increase quality as quantity goes up. It also means that increasing quantity while not increasing the quality pool will make overall quality level go down.
The quality pool also a cap, which can be raised through techs. This places a hard cap on quality, and a soft cap on quantity as eventually the pool would be so diluted that d0s would be rolled.
Increasing stats:
Quality can be increased by either training with that stat, or purchasing better equipment or training directly. Quantity however, can only be increased by purchasing or recruiting new people or vehicles.
Military
Military can be used to attack other factions. The defender used their own military in defense.
Can also be used to intimidate other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Intimidation can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Espionage
Espionage can be used to sabotage other factions. The defender used their own espionage in defense.
Can also be used to spy on other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Spying on another faction can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Military and espionage are intentionally similar. Military attacks more easily rip out or destroy an opponents stats at the price of visibility. Espionage attacks more easily disable and misdirect opponent's stats, but are hidden. Intimidation more easily extracts information, but that information may or may not be reliable. Spying gets more reliable information, but less of it.
Military is a sledgehammer. Espionage is a scalpel. Both should be capable of addressing any given situation, but in different ways.
Morale
Not a useable stat, but an indicator of faction health. Goes from 1-10. Morale gives a passive bonus to actions, and serves as a defense, but is cannot be used for anything directly.
Reputation - This will depend on the political system.
Research - Still working on this. There will most likely be a set tech tree, so how research works will play into that.
Psionics - May be a stat, may just be part of the setting.
Economics - Trade? Not sure how exactly to handle this.
Other things that will be in the game.
Spoiler
Supplies (Maybe)
Trade Goods (Definitely)
Favors (As a concrete political system)
Any thoughts on what I have so far? I plan to do a lot more work on this over the coming weeks or even months.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Your backstory looks pretty awesome. Count me in .
Now to the rules. I always gave my best feedbck through disection so I'll just do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
[spoiler]
Stat will be using a quantity vs quality system. The quality determines the dice rolled. The quantity determines the number of die. Quality itself will be determined by a quality pool. The quality pool divided by the quantity and a multiplier (and rounded to the nearest whole number) is
the quality level. This means that it is progressively harder to increase quality as quantity goes up. It also means that increasing quantity while not increasing the quality pool will make overall quality level go down.
The quality pool also a cap, which can be raised through techs. This places a hard cap on quality, and a soft cap on quantity as eventually the pool would be so diluted that d0s would be rolled.
Doesn't this make quantity the more reliable stat? That would mean that one guy with an awesome gun has very random results and a large untrained mob with a pile of ruble in their hand always do the job they are expected to, but with not much chance to get lucky. Just making sure.
Anyway, regardless of which is which, you will have to balance the randomizer (that potentially multiplies your results but may also fail when most needed) vs the dice increase (which makes your rolls more reliable, but decreases the strength of the first stat). It seems possible but pretty hard to balance in terms of costs and so on. Make sure you simulate a bunch to see the actual numbers work, if you think this rule is worth the extra work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Increasing stats:
Quality can be increased by either training with that stat, or purchasing better equipment or training directly. Quantity however, can only be increased by purchasing or recruiting new people or vehicles.
I guess by "training with that stat" you mean it increases by itself when used? Does that mean that any use we give it will have benefits, depending on how much we invest? Because I am pretty sure that this increase then would have no benefit except that everyone will slowly but steadily reach their cap and thus someone who wants better quality than others will have to increase it with research even if no one else was investing. Because I am pretty sure that no one will just let their stats be idle for a turn even if they wouldn't know about this rule.
Now with Mil and Esp you could do it similar to experience in other games, in that it is only rewarded with successes, but what about the other stats? Research could get an exp boost for each new tech you finish. The others I don't know.
Also what does "direct training" mean? Using a stat to grow itself? So "I let 5 of my psionic squads train" would mean that I invest 5 stats of psionic quantity to invest in their quality. Would something like that increase the overall quality or the quality per stat point (which would be a hassle to track). Also how would something like that work with economy, research or reputation?
Lastly, how would you handle cross-type investments? Like using Mil manpower to construct stuff or using your psionics (if any) to condition the minds of your agents? If you allow that at all I would suggest it to be lower than direct training except if you use the Economy stat.
It definetly would make stuff easier for you if you don't allow it, but you have to make up your mind from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Military
Military can be used to attack other factions. The defender used their own military in defense.
Can also be used to intimidate other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Intimidation can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Will you allow weird actions like putting military to work on constructing stuff?
Also don't forget to take into account that some players will probably try to use it to raid other factions or the natives of the various systems.
Also how do you expect the intimidate action to be handled when used on a fellow player? Seems kind of not working like reputation in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Espionage
Espionage can be used to sabotage other factions. The defender used their own espionage in defense.
Can also be used to spy on other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Spying on another faction can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Military and espionage are intentionally similar. Military attacks more easily rip out or destroy an opponents stats at the price of visibility. Espionage attacks more easily disable and misdirect opponent's stats, but are hidden. Intimidation more easily extracts information, but that information may or may not be reliable. Spying gets more reliable information, but less of it.
Military is a sledgehammer. Espionage is a scalpel. Both should be capable of addressing any given situation, but in different ways.
Here again we have the stealing part. I guess that would only work if you use saveable t.Eco, because while a raid would probably destroy p.Eco it surely shouldn't gain you that.
Also, if information gathering only rolls against Morale and Morale has neither a quality part nor can go over 10, wouldn't that make rolling really easy once you have more than 10 Esp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Morale
Not a useable stat, but an indicator of faction health. Goes from 1-10. Morale gives a passive bonus to actions, and serves as a defense, but is cannot be used for anything directly.
I guess it would be best if this stat is affected by all kinds of achievments and failures. You could also build in the implications of bad Morale, so above 5 would give bonuses and below 5 would weaken your actions. Very low Morale could trigger bad internal events and 0 Morale could either mean losing the game or, less harshly, loosing a bunch of your stats to defection but increasing your Morale again by a bit (or even to 5) because those that stayed are of course more Loyal than the deserters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Reputation - This will depend on the political system.
I suggest this not being a normal stat like Mil or Eco but more a derived stat like Morale.
Don't forget things like positive/negative reputation. Or you could do it like in some other TW games I saw and let each faction choose a type of Reputation (feared, loved, trusted, generous, honorable and others) and increase or decrease their stat dependant on actions and IC decisions. Different NPCs could react differently to various types but in general it still is just that the more Rep you have, the more people will do what you want them to, regardless of why they do it.
Of course Reputation should do next to nothing regarding natives, at least not in the first few turns of arriving in a new system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Research - Still working on this. There will most likely be a set tech tree, so how research works will play into that.
If you do a tech tree, better base it of solely on the mechanical effects (increasing quality caps ect.) and let each player fluff it up by himself. Especially in a crazy nomad alien game like this one you shouldn't bind players to all using the same technology. Strongly different approaches to technology with the same mechanical results would also explain why players can't trade tech, which I think that is something you are against. There would be the question on what joint research projects would be both mechanics and fluff wise. You could still allow them but only for those large, game affecting traits that are not easily quantifiable, if you don't scrap those too. Or you could allow them for when it comes to unlock new, previously hidden research branches through special tech milestones.
Big question though is, what does quality mean here? Do you roll dice to advance in research? Could make sense, as discoveries are made randomly, but you would have to decide if you like this way of handling it mechanics wise or if you think that it would factor in luck too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Psionics - May be a stat, may just be part of the setting.
Psionics seems pretty powerful. If you decide to have it as a stat, make sure it is balanced in a good way and not just by having to unlock it. You could also let psionics be mostly fluff, so if I for instance want a psionic heavy race that just means that my military uses psy blasts instead of plasma cannons and mind reading instead of miniature mechanical flies with cameras and microphones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Economics - Trade? Not sure how exactly to handle this.
Well, you already stated that the main (or even only) way of increasing quantity is by paying money for it. Now the question is if you want to have Eco also be a quality/quantity stat with rolling and everything. In that case I guess quality would be things like good commercials, hagglers, bussiness contacts and similar. Questions here would be the implications of experience and training. Although when you invest Eco into Eco-quality there is nothing forcing you to call it "training" even if it gives the same amount of benefits like investing Mil to improve its own quality. This still leaves open the question of experience however, as I am sure that every player will invest Eco each round and have successes most of the times. Rolling for successes also throws up questions of t.Eco. You could have each p.Eco roll at EoT and give you a bunch of investable t.Eco like that. This would be the only way you could reliably pay a player money for favours.
If this seems too weird and complicated you could also just make Eco a pure quantity stat. Each turn p.Eco gives equal t.Eco and spending it is one of the best ways to directly increase both quality and quantity.
This all still leaves open question on things like economic warfare, buying of soldiers, agents, ect. or greasing people to gain information (all probably things that work better the less morale the target enemy has).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Other things that will be in the game.
Supplies (Maybe)
Trade Goods (Definitely)
Favors (As a concrete political system)
As I still don't have any clue on how you want to handle the last three things I can't really say anything here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
Any thoughts on what I have so far? I plan to do a lot more work on this over the coming weeks or even months.
There is still the question of how large scale the scenario is supposed to be. Things like how much population a faction roughly represents, how much IC time passes during each turn and how long the green star stays in any one system on average all have effects on the meaning and potential of all the stats. I think you know what I mean by that but I can elaborate if you wish.
Anyway, good luck with preparing your game and I hope I was already at least a little help. I'll continue giving feedback if you want me to and will probably be more precise and less talky in the future, now that all parts have been roughly adressed.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Doesn't this make quantity the more reliable stat? That would mean that one guy with an awesome gun has very random results and a large untrained mob with a pile of ruble in their hand always do the job they are expected to, but with not much chance to get lucky. Just making sure.
Not necessarily. You could increase the number of dice being rolled.
1 quality = 1d1 per quantity
2 quality = 1d3 per quantity
3 quality = 1d5 per quantity
4 quality = 1d7 per quantity
5 quality = 1d9 per quantity
7 quality = 2d6 per quantity
9 quality = 2d8 per quantity
11 quality = 2d10 per quantity
12 quality = 3d7 per quantity
15 quality = 3d9 per quantity
18 quality = 4d8 per quantity
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
If it increases the number of dice being rolled, why even separate quality from quantity? Except if you really like the idea of balancing each stat around two variables that interact with each other multiplicatively. I guess that is nice for players that like to minmax and has the added "benefit" of being able to build in a research based hardcap and softcap at the same time.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
It's actually not that hard to balance quantity and quality. And actually a person with 10 troops of quality 1 would actually better off by the rules than a person with 1 troop of quality 10. This is because the person with more troops had to do the same amount of training, or else his troops would be quality 0, and also increased his troop number.
The actual balance point would be a person with 10 troops quality 1 vs. 1 troop quality 19. Which is perhaps not entirely intuitive.
Anyway after doing a bunch of modeling I realized that if I'm going to make quantity and quality balanced exactly I might as well just go with the standard Total War stats where both are represented by a single number. I just kind of wanted to have some way of representing that people training could increase their skill level, but not their actual numbers.
I do like the idea of actual tech level variants. That will probably be in the game.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
10 troops with quality 1 would be better than 1 troop quality 19, since you can't have 9 quality attack something and 10 something else but you could send 5 troops to fight in one battle and another 5 in some other battle.
__________________
Trophies:
Spoiler
Trophies.
Quotes:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamech
Trusting Murska worked out great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyturtle
A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
[quote=Rafinius;14145619]Your backstory looks pretty awesome. Count me in .
Now to the rules. I always gave my best feedbck through disection so I'll just do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Doesn't this make quantity the more reliable stat? That would mean that one guy with an awesome gun has very random results and a large untrained mob with a pile of ruble in their hand always do the job they are expected to, but with not much chance to get lucky. Just making sure.
Anyway, regardless of which is which, you will have to balance the randomizer (that potentially multiplies your results but may also fail when most needed) vs the dice increase (which makes your rolls more reliable, but decreases the strength of the first stat). It seems possible but pretty hard to balance in terms of costs and so on. Make sure you simulate a bunch to see the actual numbers work, if you think this rule is worth the extra work.
I guess by "training with that stat" you mean it increases by itself when used? Does that mean that any use we give it will have benefits, depending on how much we invest? Because I am pretty sure that this increase then would have no benefit except that everyone will slowly but steadily reach their cap and thus someone who wants better quality than others will have to increase it with research even if no one else was investing. Because I am pretty sure that no one will just let their stats be idle for a turn even if they wouldn't know about this rule.
Now with Mil and Esp you could do it similar to experience in other games, in that it is only rewarded with successes, but what about the other stats? Research could get an exp boost for each new tech you finish. The others I don't know.
Also what does "direct training" mean? Using a stat to grow itself? So "I let 5 of my psionic squads train" would mean that I invest 5 stats of psionic quantity to invest in their quality. Would something like that increase the overall quality or the quality per stat point (which would be a hassle to track). Also how would something like that work with economy, research or reputation?
Lastly, how would you handle cross-type investments? Like using Mil manpower to construct stuff or using your psionics (if any) to condition the minds of your agents? If you allow that at all I would suggest it to be lower than direct training except if you use the Economy stat.
It definetly would make stuff easier for you if you don't allow it, but you have to make up your mind from the beginning.
Will you allow weird actions like putting military to work on constructing stuff?
For cross stat work remember this is set in a ship. You can't just go digging around in it, or building radical new extensions to increase your facilities. Any work modifying the layout has to be done carefully and by experts. So a bunch of soldiers with shovels is not going to be much help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Also don't forget to take into account that some players will probably try to use it to raid other factions or the natives of the various systems.
Also how do you expect the intimidate action to be handled when used on a fellow player? Seems kind of not working like reputation in that regard.
Using military for raiding other factions is what I meant by attacking. I thought that was the obvious use.
Intimidating another PC faction will cause their members to start talking if they don't have high enough morale. Just because a faction leader has nerves of steel and does whatever they want doesn't mean their workers are quite as unfazeable, especially if they have a morale of 2 and the other guy is point a plasma cannon at their face.
To clarify this means that I as the GM will give information corresponding to what the workers know. This may include rumors that may or may not be true, but which they have heard. This may include outright lies if the intimidation wasn't entirely successful or the workers were briefed ahead of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Here again we have the stealing part. I guess that would only work if you use saveable t.Eco, because while a raid would probably destroy p.Eco it surely shouldn't gain you that.
Also, if information gathering only rolls against Morale and Morale has neither a quality part nor can go over 10, wouldn't that make rolling really easy once you have more than 10 Esp?
There will be certain points that can be captured to provide resources, and trade goods will essentially serve as a hard currency. Otherwise most stats will be either destroyed or disabled rather than looted. The exact difference between espionage and military I still have to work out.
And that is a good point about morale. I will think of something to offset it. For instance maybe the morale isn't a target so much as the chance to resist. So a morale 10 faction will have ~95% chance to ignore intimidation and spying attempts. Probably make it per die so that the more you spys or thugs you throw at the more chance that something will get through even if they have a high morale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
I guess it would be best if this stat is affected by all kinds of achievments and failures. You could also build in the implications of bad Morale, so above 5 would give bonuses and below 5 would weaken your actions. Very low Morale could trigger bad internal events and 0 Morale could either mean losing the game or, less harshly, loosing a bunch of your stats to defection but increasing your Morale again by a bit (or even to 5) because those that stayed are of course more Loyal than the deserters.
Pretty much how I was going to handle it. I may also make a balancing factor so over time morale will rise or fall to 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
I suggest this not being a normal stat like Mil or Eco but more a derived stat like Morale.
Don't forget things like positive/negative reputation. Or you could do it like in some other TW games I saw and let each faction choose a type of Reputation (feared, loved, trusted, generous, honorable and others) and increase or decrease their stat dependant on actions and IC decisions. Different NPCs could react differently to various types but in general it still is just that the more Rep you have, the more people will do what you want them to, regardless of why they do it.
Of course Reputation should do next to nothing regarding natives, at least not in the first few turns of arriving in a new system.
I am still working on the political system, but there will be a difference between reputation and influence. Reputation is how people see you. Influence is how much you can actually get them to do what you want. Reputation will probably be a derived stat, while influence will be more of a hard stat.
Also there will be a racial reputation, which your race has acquired in the galaxy. This is what newcomers to the ship or natives to a system will use. Your influence with them will start at 0 since obviously you have pretty much no idea what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
If you do a tech tree, better base it of solely on the mechanical effects (increasing quality caps ect.) and let each player fluff it up by himself. Especially in a crazy nomad alien game like this one you shouldn't bind players to all using the same technology. Strongly different approaches to technology with the same mechanical results would also explain why players can't trade tech, which I think that is something you are against. There would be the question on what joint research projects would be both mechanics and fluff wise. You could still allow them but only for those large, game affecting traits that are not easily quantifiable, if you don't scrap those too. Or you could allow them for when it comes to unlock new, previously hidden research branches through special tech milestones.
Big question though is, what does quality mean here? Do you roll dice to advance in research? Could make sense, as discoveries are made randomly, but you would have to decide if you like this way of handling it mechanics wise or if you think that it would factor in luck too much.
This is why I didn't put anything down for research. What the stat does is going to be heavily dependent on what the tech tree looks like. And I haven't even started working on that yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Psionics seems pretty powerful. If you decide to have it as a stat, make sure it is balanced in a good way and not just by having to unlock it. You could also let psionics be mostly fluff, so if I for instance want a psionic heavy race that just means that my military uses psy blasts instead of plasma cannons and mind reading instead of miniature mechanical flies with cameras and microphones.
It will probably be just a way to do things than a separate stat. I just included it to indicate that psionics of some form would be in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
Well, you already stated that the main (or even only) way of increasing quantity is by paying money for it. Now the question is if you want to have Eco also be a quality/quantity stat with rolling and everything. In that case I guess quality would be things like good commercials, hagglers, bussiness contacts and similar. Questions here would be the implications of experience and training. Although when you invest Eco into Eco-quality there is nothing forcing you to call it "training" even if it gives the same amount of benefits like investing Mil to improve its own quality. This still leaves open the question of experience however, as I am sure that every player will invest Eco each round and have successes most of the times. Rolling for successes also throws up questions of t.Eco. You could have each p.Eco roll at EoT and give you a bunch of investable t.Eco like that. This would be the only way you could reliably pay a player money for favours.
If this seems too weird and complicated you could also just make Eco a pure quantity stat. Each turn p.Eco gives equal t.Eco and spending it is one of the best ways to directly increase both quality and quantity.
This all still leaves open question on things like economic warfare, buying of soldiers, agents, ect. or greasing people to gain information (all probably things that work better the less morale the target enemy has).
I have something in mind for economy. I will probably put it up later today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
As I still don't have any clue on how you want to handle the last three things I can't really say anything here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafinius
There is still the question of how large scale the scenario is supposed to be. Things like how much population a faction roughly represents, how much IC time passes during each turn and how long the green star stays in any one system on average all have effects on the meaning and potential of all the stats. I think you know what I mean by that but I can elaborate if you wish.
Anyway, good luck with preparing your game and I hope I was already at least a little help. I'll continue giving feedback if you want me to and will probably be more precise and less talky in the future, now that all parts have been roughly adressed.
For scale I am not entirely certain how large the ship is going to be. It's probably going to be a question of whether faction populations number in the thousands or the millions.
Timescale wise I think each turn is going to be about a year. It may even be longer. But it could actually shorten to a few months a turn. But since this is something that is more a concern to faction backgrounds than game mechanics I probably won't settle on anything until near the start of recruitment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murska
10 troops with quality 1 would be better than 1 troop quality 19, since you can't have 9 quality attack something and 10 something else but you could send 5 troops to fight in one battle and another 5 in some other battle.
That's true, but to be honest I don't really want to have rules that encourage people to split up their stats and send them on multiple actions. Besides complicated mult party fights that's the most time consuming part of EoTs.
Last edited by ArcaneStomper : 10-31-2012 at 09:44 AM.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimsage Matt
Just wondering, but Could I use ESP to stay hidden?
You would basically have to do so to the exclusion of everything else. Honestly not interacting with anyone else to that extent kind of makes the game seem a bit pointless to me.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneStomper
You would basically have to do so to the exclusion of everything else. Honestly not interacting with anyone else to that extent kind of makes the game seem a bit pointless to me.
I think it's more of an exit strategy than a way of staying in the game. It is just that going into hiding is a more dignified exit than being conquered.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
First, If I'm using me ESP so I won't be found... and I don't talk to yas... and I'm all bout Tech/psionics projects... Good way of staying in.
But, I'm thinking of stealing two things from Warhammer 40K and mixing them together.
As Eldar Meets Ork, you get the Grim (ya same name, but eh...). Only 3 Stats needed. MIL & Mor (We only good fer two thing! Fightinn an Winnin!) and Psionics (Think Tyranid Genewarping, Ork Fighting evolution and Eldar Bone singing). I'm a Merc Fraction.
You pay me, I WARRGH 'em!
__________________
98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
An idea came to me, not sure how feasible it is;
A total war game where every nation has two players. One plays as the current democratically elected ruler of the nation, the other plays as their main political rival.
Both players have their parties stats. Whoever is leader of the nation also controls the nations stats. Every turn, whoever has the most popular approval takes power for that turn. The current leader sees a significant reduction in popular approval each turn, so power switches frequently between the players.
Players would have to fight for control of their own nation, while simultaneously battling on the international stage to keep their nation a major global player.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Hmm... That idea is certainly interesting I would want to see more detailed rules though, before voicing any more concrete opinion.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by razovor
An idea came to me, not sure how feasible it is;
A total war game where every nation has two players. One plays as the current democratically elected ruler of the nation, the other plays as their main political rival.
Both players have their parties stats. Whoever is leader of the nation also controls the nations stats. Every turn, whoever has the most popular approval takes power for that turn. The current leader sees a significant reduction in popular approval each turn, so power switches frequently between the players.
Players would have to fight for control of their own nation, while simultaneously battling on the international stage to keep their nation a major global player.
That would be really cool. I'd play it.
__________________ sacrificing minions: is there any promblem it CAN'T solve?
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Quote:
Originally Posted by razovor
An idea came to me, not sure how feasible it is;
A total war game where every nation has two players. One plays as the current democratically elected ruler of the nation, the other plays as their main political rival.
Both players have their parties stats. Whoever is leader of the nation also controls the nations stats. Every turn, whoever has the most popular approval takes power for that turn. The current leader sees a significant reduction in popular approval each turn, so power switches frequently between the players.
Players would have to fight for control of their own nation, while simultaneously battling on the international stage to keep their nation a major global player.
It sounds overly complicated. I've tried having multiple players control different parts of the same faction and it's cumbersome even when they worked together. If the actual point was to have infighting then you'd likely see status quo on the foreign stage until one player managed to wipe their opponent out, then that player would start to sweep away other countries by taking advantage of the infighting.
Plus of course there would be the difficulty in actually recruiting two player for every country. It might work, but it just doesn't seem like it would be fun enough to be worth the increase in complexity. I for one would rather not start a game with a guaranteed enemy in another player.
Edit: A better idea I think would be to have all the players in one country as political rivals. But still have the outside opponent trying to take the main empire down.
Anyway here is the next version of my own rules. Rules (V0.1 Economics)
Spoiler
Things to interact with (Very much in progress)
Spoiler
The Universe
Systems to be visited
The Natives
The inhabitants of those systems.
The Neighbors
The other factions on board the ship.
The Ship
The Green Star is very much its own entity.
Stats
Spoiler
ActionsA new rule I am introducing to this version of Total War. Each stat has a certain number of actions which it can do in a turn. This represents both the necessary infrastructure to do multiple things, and the leaders to actually command the different groups. For instance you might have three mil actions. This means you could guard your base, set an ambush, and help guard your ally's convoy, but you couldn't do anything in addition to that. Note that your actions are just the number of things that you can do. You can allocate your stat between actions however you want. For instance if you had 10 military, then in the example above you could set 1 mil to guard your base, 6 mil to the ambush, and 3 mil with the convoy.
Each faction starts with two actions in every stat. More actions can be researched or purchased. Note that you don't need to do all your actions every turn. Having multiple actions provides no bonus beyond the ability to actually have multiple actions so if you want to forgo that and concentrate everything in one area you can.
Increasing stats:
Most stats can only increase themselves. This represents training to better do their own jobs. Most stats cannot contribute much increasing other stats. They can, but only at a quarter of their normal effectiveness. They cannot help other stats in actions besides investing. Merchants can't help soldiers assault a base, and spies can't help scientists study exotic particles. If you try something like you will need an extremely good explanation of how it works, or I will simply ignore it.
Military
Military can be used to attack other factions. The defender uses their military in defense.
Can also be used to intimidate other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Intimidation can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Espionage
Espionage can be used to sabotage other factions. The defender uses their espionage in defense.
Can also be used to spy on other factions. The defender uses their morale in defense. Spying on another faction can be used to acquire information, and only information, that that faction knows.
Military and espionage are intentionally similar. Military attacks more easily rip out or destroy an opponent’s stats at the price of visibility. Espionage attacks more easily disable and misdirect opponent's stats, but are hidden. Intimidation more easily extracts information, but that information may or may not be reliable. Spying gets more reliable information, but less of it.
Military is a sledgehammer. Espionage is a scalpel. Both should be capable of addressing any given situation, but in different ways.
Morale
Not a useable stat, but an indicator of faction health. Goes from 1-10. Morale gives a passive bonus to actions, and serves as a defense, but is cannot be used for anything directly.
Morale is increased through the success or failure of actions taken. Also every turn morale below 5 will increase by half a point and morale above 5 will decrease by half a point, as the situation becomes the status quo for the population of the faction. Each half point of morale provides a 5% chance to resist each die of an opposing espionage roll. This means that a faction with a morale of 10 is completely immune to spying or intimidation, while a morale of 0 is completely open.
Reputation - This will depend on the political system.
Research - Still working on this. There will most likely be a set tech tree, so how research works will play into that.
Economics
Spoiler
There are two distinct sub specialties under economics, engineers and merchants. Each is its own stat and has its own functions.
Engineers:
Engineers are the more concrete side of economics, they don't necessarily have to be called engineers in your faction. They do all the building and repairing and such. They have three functions they can do.
Constructing: Engineers are the only thing that can construct Harvesters and Nodes. There may also be megaprojects unlocked by higher tier research that needs to be constructed before it can be used.
Building: Engineers can manufacture the materials and equipment for new stats. They can use trade goods on a one for one basis to create new stats. This also handles getting new personnel. This is limited by the number of engineers. One point of engineers can trade one trade good for one new stat point.
Repairing: No stat is ever destroyed completely. If military attacks destroy something or espionage attacks disable it, then engineers can fix it at a rate of three fourths of a trade good to repair a destroyed item, and half a trade good to repair a disabled item. Note that it doesn't have to be your stat originally for your engineers to repair it. They just need access to the salvage somehow.
Merchants:
Merchants handle the more fluid side of economics. They are your contact point with the other traders aboard the ship, and will probably have the most day to day contact with other species. They can do two functions.
Buy:
It is not always in the best interests of a faction to use engineers to build new stats. Your merchants can also do so on the open market by buying goods from other species. Unlike engineers this is neither a one for one trade nor limited to the number of merchants. Instead the merchants roll dice against a target going rate, each stat will have its own. Depending on what they manage they may be able to buy the stats for cheaper than the going rate, in which case they will get more stats, or more, which will obviously result in less stats.
Trade:
Rather than try to buy something specifically merchants can attempt to conduct routine business with the other factions to improve their position. The merchants will again attempt to roll against a target number, determined by the overall economy of the ship. They will then receive a number of additional trade goods based on their success. Failure simply results in no trade gains, and will not lose any of the faction's trade goods already gained.
Other things that will be in the game.
Spoiler
Harvesters
Nodes
Psionics
Trade Goods (Definitely)
Favors (As a concrete political system)
Change log
Spoiler
0.1: Removed quantity and quality, added economics
0.0: Rough Draft
Last edited by ArcaneStomper : 10-31-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
Well, the green star looks interesting. I might play an economic and research faction. Both merchants and engineers will probably be high due to their inherent utility in creating/restoring stats.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
The problem with that two party country idea is that you could get so much behind the scenes horse trading that they would all start acting like they were the same anyway. Who was currently in power would mean about as much as who won the coin toss while in terms of policies it would be business as usual.
__________________
Many, many thanks to azuyomi244 for the avatar.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
I have a concept of a Total War game I might want to run at some point of a sort of Faerie court and an intentionally chaotic ruleset. What are other people's thoughts?
Rules (such as they are)
Spoiler
The rules are subject to change, either because I feel like it or because someone convinces me to do so. This can be considered an in-game mechanic but should be done in the OOC thread once the game gets going.
Two rules that will not change are that contracts must be honored and lies are forbidden. Deception is highly lauded and outstanding and artful examples of it will boost your reputation, but going past the line on either rule has very harsh consequences.
Every faction has four stats
Forces: The beings your faction has in its number or call. Use them to perform tasks peaceful or violent
Realm: The identity and physical manifestation of your faction, in any physical location those happen to be. It waxes and wanes with your faction’s power and spirit. Use it to create or to bolster your other efforts
Intrigue: the skill of your realm in tracking or sabotaging the efforts of others or fighting for favor
Reputation: Your standing in the world. Want to ask the sky to give you passage to sail your ships in the water above? That’s a reputation check. Denying the requests of factions with higher reputation can have consequences.
You can chose to have additional stats if you describe them. Traits, both positive and negative can also be present.
Provisionally, each of the four main stats can be used to attack the same stats in other factions as well as influence in their own and other factions the stat below them (reputation can influence forces)
Every faction also has a VIP. If their VIP dies another (usually weaker) will replace them. A faction’s VIP is something of an embodiment of a faction, their faction’s realm and beings have their personality influenced by the VIP. The VIP in turn is constrained to act as the figurehead of their faction, with all the duties that may imply.
The faction stats can be increased by 2 at each EoT unless something changes that, the VIP stats can increase by one every other turn. Both stats can change based on actions in game. New traits and stats can be requested at any time but will be granted at my discretion.
Realm, Reputation, and Privacy will be posted at the beginning of each turn
Privacy is equal to your Realm score plus a bonus based on your Intrigue’s efforts to ensure it
Correspondence between factions should usually be done in spoilers in the IC thread with the lowest privacy score of the factions corresponding placed above it. Certain messages can have a privacy score higher than this if efforts are made to ensure it. Arrange with me to receive these bonuses ahead of time.
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
the faerie court idea sounds awesome. I have no idea what to do as a faction, but I like the idea, and will play if I can come up with any ideas.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
I am contemplating using a different system for attacking, any kind of attacking, in my new game. Rather than roll some dice and add up the numbers I would assign each number a hit or a miss. Then the total number of hits would be totaled up and the number of misses. Your misses would then be subtracted from your opponent's hits and the result would be the damage you took.
For instance if you had 6 mil on the attack and rolled 6d6 every 5 and 6 would be a hit, and every 1 and 2 would be a miss. If you rolled [1][2][3][4][5][6] then you would get two hits and two misses. If your opponent got three hits and one miss then you would do one damage to them and they would do one damage to you.
What do you guys think too complicated?
I was also considering just having successes rather than hits or misses. The side that got the most successes would win, and damage would be determined by the number of successes they got.
RSS Feeds: 
Re: Total War Central II (Semi-freeform nation games)
sacrificing minions: is there any promblem it CAN'T solve?
.
Trophies.
[/url]
