Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

My problem with Synthesis is that it alters EVERYTHING. Plants. Bacteria. Viruses. Earthworms. It doesn't just insta-connects humans and geth. It destroys nature and replaces it with something else; it is playing God on a scale several million times higher than merely wiping out a species or two (and yes, I consider the difference in scale being so huge that galactic genocide is a "merely" in comparison). On the cosmic scale killing all the Geth registers is like peeing in the ocean. Synthesis is to remove all the water from the ocean and replace it with pee. All of it. Besides, how do we know it stops at the milky way? Maybe we are destroying nature IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE?

As I said, the more I think about it the more I feel it is abhorrent, for this very reason.

Then where we differ is that I don't think that altering nature is inherently bad. Nature is not sacred to me - it's just what's there without sapient influence, nothing more or less.

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Then where we differ is that I don't think that altering nature is inherently bad. Nature is not sacred to me - it's just what's there without sapient influence, nothing more or less.

Zevox

Yes, that is a fundamentally different point of view. But bear in mind I am not talking about changing nature through cloning or anything like that; this is an entirely different animal (no pun intended). To me, we are are just an animal among others. It is hard to put what I mean into words, but basically Life Is Sacred. Not Life as in a single individual. Or Plant, or even Species. Life as in the wider scale of things: Evolution. The birth and death of stars, planets, galaxies. Universes too. To muck around with things on the level as Synthesis does is... beyond comprehension for me, if it truly means rewriting all life in the galaxy.

On a related note: I did lower the difficulty for 1 minute to Casual, and it suddenly became laughably easy. With both my teammates dead, I still could kill every ...... in that square. Suddenly Banshees took TWO hits to kill instead of five or six. It left me with a very bad taste in my mouth though, I might have to redo it, but it also makes it clear to me that there really should be a setting in between casual and normal. The jump in difficulty is enormous.

I picked the Red ending. I am STILL not happy with the choices at the end (please note this was the first time I did play the game, at all, I didn't even consider starting it before the Extended Edition came out) but I can live with it. What is missing is still the ability to throw the Geth and the Leviathans in the face of the Starbrat. Anyway, I listened to everything it had to say, then laughed it in the face and killed the SOB.

We might build new AIs, but they will not be harder to destroy than the Reapers, and we just beat those.

I admit I cried like a little girl at the end (I am a sucker for emotional scenes) but hey, Shepard and Garrus will be able to get back together as soon as someone gets up on the citadel to find out she is alive, the Reapers and Starbrat are dead, and the future is bright.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

Yes, that is a fundamentally different point of view. But bear in mind I am not talking about changing nature through cloning or anything like that; this is an entirely different animal (no pun intended). To me, we are are just an animal among others. It is hard to put what I mean into words, but basically Life Is Sacred. Not Life as in a single individual. Or Plant, or even Species. Life as in the wider scale of things: Evolution. The birth and death of stars, planets, galaxies. Universes too. To muck around with things on the level as Synthesis does is... beyond comprehension for me, if it truly means rewriting all life in the galaxy.

In other words, Nature, as you said before. That is a fundamentally different point of view indeed, one which I do not share in the least. I find Synthesis an interesting idea precisely because it changes everything that way. I have no fundamental objection to that. I would in other circumstances object strenuously to forcing it on people against their will, but not to anything else about it.

Zevox

[YakYak]

I find that Synthesis is the easiest to come up with a logical cop-out on. "Oh, it's inevitable, huh? Then I'll let it happen in inevitability. In the meantime: DIE REAPER SCUM!"

[Avilan the Grey]

Originally Posted by YakYak

I find that Synthesis is the easiest to come up with a logical cop-out on. "Oh, it's inevitable, huh? Then I'll let it happen in inevitability. In the meantime: DIE REAPER SCUM!"

Exactly.
And the counter argument is also obvious (not to yours, but to the original statement): If it is inevitable, let evolution create it without interference.

As for the ending... I have never played the game before the Extended Cut, as I have said before, but I am not overly annoyed. It is not good, but it is not bile.
In fact my single biggest complaint is the decision to auto-load the auto-save before attacking the second to last enemy base, instead of stopping the game and asking if the player wants to quit or start over. It actually took N5 seconds before realizing it wasn't some after-the-ending thing going on.

[Psyren]

It's inevitable only if both sides are around long enough to reach it. Allowing one (namely, machines) to singularity first could result in Synthesis... or it could result in our total annihilation/obsolescence at their hands. We need them, not the reverse, and all it would take is another Dalek Heretic mindset to spring up in their ranks (due to a math error no less.)

Perhaps your Shepard is willing to roll the cosmic dice on that, and that's fine. But hopefully you can understand why other Shepards may not want to.

[Avilan the Grey]

Originally Posted by Psyren

Perhaps your Shepard is willing to roll the cosmic dice on that, and that's fine. But hopefully you can understand why other Shepards may not want to.

Of course. I roleplay my characters as often as I can, which is why I have no pure renegade in my "stall" of ME2 characters.

[Farix]

Just finished up my first Collector match and I've got to say it was pretty fun. Scions and Praetorians are back as the elites and they are evil. Scions ditched their shockwave ability for a multi-grenade toss and are just as melee unfriendly as Brutes. Praetorians act like a cross between a Banshee and an Atlas, sporting eye beams and a rapid movement ability where they float a lot faster than they can walk (left one alone as it was across the map and turned around a minute later to find it in my face). Don't think the Scions have an instant kill ability but their melee range is larger than you'd think, Praetorians do from the look of the commercial they put out but I didn't stick around them long enough to test it. The regular troops weren't anything too special except the Abominations (husks) explode when dying, so letting them into melee range is a bad thing. Units can get possessed ala Harbinger, gives them a substantial power boost, nothing like a possessed Scion to snipe you across half the map with their Ravager-esk cannons. Seeker swarms are out and massively slow down your cooldowns when you get swarmed, and I think they might set up an explosion combo on you with dying Abominations, not really sure but something kept exploding.

*Abominations explode like a Cain blast when they're possessed as opposed to their regular grenade level explosion, has nothing to do with Seekers*

Played on the challenge version of Dagger and with a sandstorm coming in your vision is drastically reduced, dunno if this will affect things like Hunter mode though.

In other news the biotic god has arrived, Volus are now in the multiplayer including the biotic, which while it lacks the Biotic Wind ability I was hoping for the description does reference Volus as being Biotic Gods. Seems that that list of new characters was spot on, looks like it'll be an interesting mixture of classes and powers.

[Morty]

Well I'll be damned. They did add the Volus. Can't wait to play one. One of them is another purely tech-using Sentinel...

[Farix]

Well I'll be damned. They did add the Volus. Can't wait to play one. One of them is another purely tech-using Sentinel...

Yeah, though I did see an Asari Sentinal with Tech Armor, Annihilation Field, and Warp. A sturdier N7 Fury maybe?

Still can't see a Volus waddling around the battlefield though, here's hoping for some favor from the item RNG god.

[Morty]

Indeed. And the Asari Infiltrator combines biotics with Tactical Cloak. It's good to see them move away from the Combat/Biotic/Tech division. It was a holdover from ME1.
As for the Volus... I do wonder how quickly they move and if they can use all the weapons. If they can, it's probably a feature of their special armor that's mentioned in their description.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Farix

Yeah, though I did see an Asari Sentinal with Tech Armor, Annihilation Field, and Warp. A sturdier N7 Fury maybe?

I am going to enjoy the heck out of that, I think. If I ever unlock it, anyway - I only got two of the N7 characters when I was playing last.

The wiki seems to have a confirmed list of classes from this DLC, giving us the proper slots for each of the ones found in the patch before. Though it says only four are available now (it doesn't say which), and the others will be made available over time:

• Asari Huntress Infiltrator
• Asari Valkyrie Sentinel
• Batarian Brawler Vanguard
• Batarian Slasher Adept
• Drell Assassin Infiltrator
• Geth Trooper Soldier
• Krogan Shaman Adept
• Quarian Marksman Soldier
• Turian Ghost Infiltrator
• Turian Havoc Soldier
• Turian Saboteur Engineer
• Volus Adept
• Volus Engineer
• Volus Mercenary Sentinel
• Volus Protector Vanguard
• Vorcha Hunter Engineer

Apparently the person who found the class list before messed up on the Turian Saboteur, which is an Engineer, not a Vanguard (which honestly makes more sense with the name, so it's not so surprising). I'll be eager to try all those new Adepts, Sentinels, Engineers, and Vanguards. Absolutely love the fact that every Volus character is in one of the classes I play.

I'd say I can't wait to get ahold of those things, but I can and will, because XCOM is proving quite good.

Zevox

[Landis963]

Gosh darn it I was just getting to the point where I had the majority of things unlocked. I might have to go on another one of those runs where I just do a lot of matches but don't buy anything, and then reload the DLCs one by one until I unlock everything.

[Psyren]

Originally Posted by Zevox

I am going to enjoy the heck out of that, I think. If I ever unlock it, anyway - I only got two of the N7 characters when I was playing last.

If you want the other N7 classes, I would suggest holding off on the new expansion. This will keep your d12 from becoming a d20, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Zevox

The wiki seems to have a confirmed list of classes from this DLC, giving us the proper slots for each of the ones found in the patch before. Though it says only four are available now (it doesn't say which), and the others will be made available over time:

*snip*

Ah, so I was right about the Turian Vanguard being wishful thinking.

Not that I'm against the concept in principle, but given that Turians tend to embody all the worst traits you could put in a Vanguard - namely, the mobility of a krogan without the durability, or perhaps the durability of a Drell without the mobility - I just couldn't see charging going well for them.

[Morty]

I do agree that all those juicy new classes would be much better if the system for obtaining them wasn't so aggravating.

[Beowulf DW]

I just saw a Volus Biotic God *ahem* Adept. It was like watching an over-inflated basketball with a shotgun.

[Dhavaer]

Balance Changes

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 9, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

New weapon mods available
- Assault Rifle Thermal Scope
- Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel
- Shotgun Omni-Blade
- Shotgun High-Velocity Barrel
- Sniper Rifle Thermal Scope
- Sniper Rifle High-Velocity Barrel
- Pistol Heavy Barrel

Singularity Power
- Duration of singularity decreased from 25 to 8 seconds (October 2 balance changes missed this)

Cryo Explosion Power Combo
- Like Biotic Explosion or Tech Burst combos, this combo can now occur without killing the target.
- Damage increased from [50-125] to [75-200]
- Impact radius decreased from [3-5] meters to [2-4] meters

Fire Explosion Power Combo
- Like Biotic Explosion or Tech Burst combos, this combo can now occur without killing the target.
- Impact radius decreased from [3-6] meters to [2-4] meters
- Damage decreased from [150-375] to [100-250]
- Damage-over-time damage decreased from [20-50] to [12.5-31.25]

Bug Fixes
- Fixed issue where you could get an unlimited number of the new character cards
- Fixed issue allowing players to see the unreleased Retaliation kits in the character selection screen

Heavy mods are out, and fire/cryo combo's don't require death anymore.

[Edge]

Alright, since I have the four characters available on the DLC's initial release...

The new turians are great, the Ghost Infiltrator can be built as a melee monster. The Havoc Soldier's new power, Havoc Strike, is effectively a combat Charge that doesn't restore shields. Both of them have a new power, Stimulant Kit, that uses grenade supply and provides both a shield boost (ranging between 2000 and 4000 dependent on your evolution choices) and a damage boost. All around, they're very nifty, and solid rare characters.

The volus adept and engineer, on the other hand, are ultra-rare characters, and I'm still trying to get to grip with them. They start with 150 health and 500 shields, combat roll, and cannot take cover. Their light melee activates a tactical cloak off cooldown, and their heavy melee erects a force field to vastly reduce their damage taken. In addition, they both possess the volus signature power, Shield Boost, which provides a hefty burst of shield restoration to the volus and all allies within range. I've chosen to go for the capacity restoration evolution path for both the volus characters, giving them and nearby allies 8000 shields for 12 seconds. Yes, 8000 shields. That's not a typo.

The volus adept also packs Stasis, and a new power called Biotic Spheres. Activating it initiates cooldown, creating three spheres. Each sphere provides a hefty cooldown bonus whilst up, and can be fired off at no cooldown for moderate damage and biotic detonation. It can be evolved for a good area of effect and a decent debuff to provide more utility against unprimed targets.

The engineer packs Proximity Mine and the new Recon Mine, an handy little power. Upon casting, it initiates cooldown. Once placed, the mine takes a while to become active. Once it does, it reveals all enemies close to it. You can also tap the button again to detonate the mine, causing heavy damage. Useful, if you can place it somewhere handy.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Psyren

Ah, so I was right about the Turian Vanguard being wishful thinking.

Not that I'm against the concept in principle, but given that Turians tend to embody all the worst traits you could put in a Vanguard - namely, the mobility of a krogan without the durability, or perhaps the durability of a Drell without the mobility - I just couldn't see charging going well for them.

Turians come in third in terms of durability, behind only Krogan and Batarians. They're a perfectly good choice for a Vanguard.

Originally Posted by Dhavaer

Heavy mods are out, and fire/cryo combo's don't require death anymore.

That is crazy. Easy cryo combos means icing large groups of enemies quickly, and if memory serves fire combos are more powerful than biotic ones without detonate. That is going to make tech powers much more potent.

Zevox

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Beowulf DW

Hmmm...just got an Argus from a Veteran pack. I think I'll take it for a spin with my Krogan soldier.

I suggest putting a recoil dampener on it, otherwise i's not even good for more than a hot and a half. I threw a recoil dampener on a turian soldier, primed marksman for accuracy and RoF and it was pretty decent at rank IV, but it is just too innacurate for my tastes. The spread of bullets from a single shot is about as innacurate as the revenant; the bullets go straight, but they dont always spawn at the muzzle. its awesome at mid range, and can be effective at long range, but up close you are more likely to miss than not.

Originally Posted by Farix

Just finished up my first Collector match and I've got to say it was pretty fun. Scions and Praetorians are back as the elites and they are evil. Scions ditched their shockwave ability for a multi-grenade toss and are just as melee unfriendly as Brutes. Praetorians act like a cross between a Banshee and an Atlas, sporting eye beams and a rapid movement ability where they float a lot faster than they can walk (left one alone as it was across the map and turned around a minute later to find it in my face). Don't think the Scions have an instant kill ability but their melee range is larger than you'd think, Praetorians do from the look of the commercial they put out but I didn't stick around them long enough to test it. The regular troops weren't anything too special except the Abominations (husks) explode when dying, so letting them into melee range is a bad thing. Units can get possessed ala Harbinger, gives them a substantial power boost, nothing like a possessed Scion to snipe you across half the map with their Ravager-esk cannons. Seeker swarms are out and massively slow down your cooldowns when you get swarmed, and I think they might set up an explosion combo on you with dying Abominations, not really sure but something kept exploding.

*Abominations explode like a Cain blast when they're possessed as opposed to their regular grenade level explosion, has nothing to do with Seekers*

Played on the challenge version of Dagger and with a sandstorm coming in your vision is drastically reduced, dunno if this will affect things like Hunter mode though.

In other news the biotic god has arrived, Volus are now in the multiplayer including the biotic, which while it lacks the Biotic Wind ability I was hoping for the description does reference Volus as being Biotic Gods. Seems that that list of new characters was spot on, looks like it'll be an interesting mixture of classes and powers.

What? Oh man, the new release! And here I am, with no Xbox live to speak of.

Gorammit.

Originally Posted by Morty

Well I'll be damned. They did add the Volus. Can't wait to play one. One of them is another purely tech-using Sentinel...

GORAMMIT.

Originally Posted by Psyren

Ah, so I was right about the Turian Vanguard being wishful thinking.

Not that I'm against the concept in principle, but given that Turians tend to embody all the worst traits you could put in a Vanguard - namely, the mobility of a krogan without the durability, or perhaps the durability of a Drell without the mobility - I just couldn't see charging going well for them.

No, actually! They gave the turian soldier or whatever a nonbiotic charge. That's exactly what I said would happen. I'm satisfied.

Also, Turiants would make good, classic vanguards. Stronger melee than normal, decent wind up, and able to stabilize their shotguns. Charge, knife, blma blam blam. Classic.

And drell actually have less shields than others. Turian base is 750, isn't it? That's really good.

Originally Posted by Edge

Alright, since I have the four characters available on the DLC's initial release...

The new turians are great, the Ghost Infiltrator can be built as a melee monster. The Havoc Soldier's new power, Havoc Strike, is effectively a combat Charge that doesn't restore shields. Both of them have a new power, Stimulant Kit, that uses grenade supply and provides both a shield boost (ranging between 2000 and 4000 dependent on your evolution choices) and a damage boost. All around, they're very nifty, and solid rare characters.

The volus adept and engineer, on the other hand, are ultra-rare characters, and I'm still trying to get to grip with them. They start with 150 health and 500 shields, combat roll, and cannot take cover. Their light melee activates a tactical cloak off cooldown, and their heavy melee erects a force field to vastly reduce their damage taken. In addition, they both possess the volus signature power, Shield Boost, which provides a hefty burst of shield restoration to the volus and all allies within range. I've chosen to go for the capacity restoration evolution path for both the volus characters, giving them and nearby allies 8000 shields for 12 seconds. Yes, 8000 shields. That's not a typo.

The volus adept also packs Stasis, and a new power called Biotic Spheres. Activating it initiates cooldown, creating three spheres. Each sphere provides a hefty cooldown bonus whilst up, and can be fired off at no cooldown for moderate damage and biotic detonation. It can be evolved for a good area of effect and a decent debuff to provide more utility against unprimed targets.

The engineer packs Proximity Mine and the new Recon Mine, an handy little power. Upon casting, it initiates cooldown. Once placed, the mine takes a while to become active. Once it does, it reveals all enemies close to it. You can also tap the button again to detonate the mine, causing heavy damage. Useful, if you can place it somewhere handy.

ugh. Waaaaaaaaaaaaant! (:f

[Farix]

The volus adept and engineer, on the other hand, are ultra-rare characters, and I'm still trying to get to grip with them. They start with 150 health and 500 shields, combat roll, and cannot take cover. Their light melee activates a tactical cloak off cooldown, and their heavy melee erects a force field to vastly reduce their damage taken. In addition, they both possess the volus signature power, Shield Boost, which provides a hefty burst of shield restoration to the volus and all allies within range. I've chosen to go for the capacity restoration evolution path for both the volus characters, giving them and nearby allies 8000 shields for 12 seconds. Yes, 8000 shields. That's not a typo.

Sounds like an interesting new class, now if only the game would get over its love affair with giving me useless shotgun upgrades.


So uhh found out some things, first the Scions do in fact have an instant kill, so trying to slip past them carrying a retrieval package = not a good idea. Secondly I found out what the hazard is on Reactor, the central room with the glowy ceiling lights: not a good place to have a firefight.

I've chosen to go for the capacity restoration evolution path for both the volus characters, giving them and nearby allies 8000 shields for 12 seconds. Yes, 8000 shields. That's not a typo.

Whats the cooldown time on that like?

[Psyren]

But here's the key question - can Volus run?

Originally Posted by Farix

Yeah, though I did see an Asari Sentinal with Tech Armor, Annihilation Field, and Warp. A sturdier N7 Fury maybe?

Psh. The Fury's strength is raining combos like candy thanks to dancing around foes with AF and Throw; all Tech Armor will do is slow that down, and Warp comes out much more slowly. I'll pass.

Originally Posted by Zevox

Turians come in third in terms of durability, behind only Krogan and Batarians. They're a perfectly good choice for a Vanguard.

I flatly disagree. Every weaker class can dodge roll; Turians are thus the weakest class that can't (or maybe the Volus will take that title now?), leading to the divide I mentioned in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Dhavaer

Heavy mods are out, and fire/cryo combo's don't require death anymore.

YES! I can play my Paladin again!
(Freeze Drain Freeze Drain Freeze Drain...)

Originally Posted by SiuiS

No, actually! They gave the turian soldier or whatever a nonbiotic charge. That's exactly what I said would happen. I'm satisfied.

Nonbiotic eh? It'd better be damn good then to be worth it.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by Farix

Whats the cooldown time on that like?

Pretty low, actually, but the volus really do need it. Not being able to take cover (or shoot over cover for that matter) is crippling.

And yes, volus can run. Their movement speed is on par with humans.

[Morty]

Hm. Unable to take cover? That's interesting. It makes the volus probably the most non-standard characters to date. They can use all weapons though, can't they?

[Beowulf DW]

Originally Posted by Morty

Hm. Unable to take cover? That's interesting. It makes the volus probably the most non-standard characters to date. They can use all weapons though, can't they?

Yes, as far as I can tell. As for the not being able to take cover thing? What's waist high for a human is at head level for them. I'd probably want to use guns like the Acolyte and the Falcon with a Volus; any gun that can arc.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Psyren

I flatly disagree. Every weaker class can dodge roll; Turians are thus the weakest class that can't (or maybe the Volus will take that title now?), leading to the divide I mentioned in my previous post.

Dodge roll is substantially less important when you've got Biotic Charge. Invincibility and instant shield recharge tends to make up for that. And honestly, in my experience with the Turian Sentinel and Krogan Vanguard, it's not that big of a deal at all when you've got high defenses to begin with. You just get used to running a lot when you need to change positions quickly.

Zevox

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Beowulf DW

Yes, as far as I can tell. As for the not being able to take cover thing? What's waist high for a human is at head level for them. I'd probably want to use guns like the Acolyte and the Falcon with a Volus; any gun that can arc.

Called it!

Originally Posted by Zevox

Dodge roll is substantially less important when you've got Biotic Charge. Invincibility and instant shield recharge tends to make up for that. And honestly, in my experience with the Turian Sentinel and Krogan Vanguard, it's not that big of a deal at all when you've got high defenses to begin with. You just get used to running a lot when you need to change positions quickly.

Zevox

Aye. Also, having both good shields, and DR slightly better than just high shields, especially when you get down to health. With Stronghold package, Tech armor and Fitness, I can hit somewhere in the functional 3,500 range; Unlike fitness, the 50% DR functionally increases ALL shield boosts, even those gained from gear. A cyclonic modulator and stronghold bring me to 2325 shields, an effective 3487 after 50% markup. Being a turian isn't so bad just because you can't get out of the way, just bring the heat - They can't dodge while shooting you, either.

[Psyren]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Dodge roll is substantially less important when you've got Biotic Charge. Invincibility and instant shield recharge tends to make up for that. And honestly, in my experience with the Turian Sentinel and Krogan Vanguard, it's not that big of a deal at all when you've got high defenses to begin with. You just get used to running a lot when you need to change positions quickly.

Zevox

I still call balderdash. Post-charge, a backflip or sideflip is the quickest way to get out of dangerous synch-kill territory - a Banshee's grab or Phantom's impale don't care how full your shields are. And while you can mostly avoid these by charging from behind, it's by no means guaranteed, especially on higher difficulties where one of the problem units can be hiding (or suddenly appear, in a Banshee's case) in the midst of the cluster you were targeting.

Then there's surviving after the charge. Yeah, you have full shields, but once the invincibility frames go away, you're very likely out in the open and taking fire. A Krogan can soak up nightmarish amounts of that to get to cover. while drell/N7/Asari can use a series of short hops to get away, and the human of course can get an extra stagger in (as well as having his own roll.) Turians... not so much.

It's not so much that I think they're made of tissue. I know Turians are good. It's just that, if I want to be tough-Vanguard, there's a better option, and if I want to be speedy-Vanguard, there's a better option, and if I want to be mage-Vanguard, there's a better option. I don't really see a place for them.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Psyren

I still call balderdash. Post-charge, a backflip or sideflip is the quickest way to get out of dangerous synch-kill territory - a Banshee's grab or Phantom's impale don't care how full your shields are. And while you can mostly avoid these by charging from behind, it's by no means guaranteed, especially on higher difficulties where one of the problem units can be hiding (or suddenly appear, in a Banshee's case) in the midst of the cluster you were targeting.

Phantoms are a non-issue, since Charge staggers them. Follow up with shotgun fire (or Nova, if Human) and they're an easy kill. Charging a Banshee at any time when she's not otherwise occupied is just dumb, so if you get killed by that, it's your own fault.

Originally Posted by Psyren

Then there's surviving after the charge. Yeah, you have full shields, but once the invincibility frames go away, you're very likely out in the open and taking fire. A Krogan can soak up nightmarish amounts of that to get to cover. while drell/N7/Asari can use a series of short hops to get away, and the human of course can get an extra stagger in (as well as having his own roll.) Turians... not so much.

Turians could soak up plenty of damage to run to cover if they needed to (Krogan actually don't need to get to cover most of the time, as they can survive long enough to Charge again if they just keep fighting). Especially if they were given Barrier, or another power that increased their survivability somehow.

Originally Posted by Psyren

It's not so much that I think they're made of tissue. I know Turians are good. It's just that, if I want to be tough-Vanguard, there's a better option, and if I want to be speedy-Vanguard, there's a better option, and if I want to be mage-Vanguard, there's a better option. I don't really see a place for them.

You could say that about he Ex-Cerberus Vanguard as well, yet we have him nonetheless. Just because you can't imagine a specific role wherein a Turian Vanguard would be better than every other Vanguard doesn't mean that one would be a bad class, not by any stretch.

Zevox

[Psyren]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Phantoms are a non-issue, since Charge staggers them. Follow up with shotgun fire (or Nova, if Human) and they're an easy kill. Charging a Banshee at any time when she's not otherwise occupied is just dumb, so if you get killed by that, it's your own fault.

In the heat of combat, mischarging is easy, especially on Gold where you have a lot less time to aim (and a lot more of the things that can sync you.) Add Atlases and Brutes to the list as well, and Geth stunlock.

Originally Posted by Zevox

Turians could soak up plenty of damage to run to cover if they needed to...

If the cover's in a straight line, sure. If not...

Originally Posted by Zevox

You could say that about he Ex-Cerberus Vanguard as well, yet we have him nonetheless.

Nah, he's not in total limbo - ECV can dodge-roll too, making him more mobile than a Krogan and therefore compensating (somewhat) for his squishiness. The area melee for breathing room helps too. Turians have neither.