Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Thajocoth

I don't really agree with xkcd on that. My girl & I are both 29 & as a couple are kinda* dating another girl who's 19 (our range based on xkcd would be 22-44 & hers would be 17-24). No one that knows all three of us seems to mind this one bit. I've never had a single person say "Dude, she's too young for you." That includes her parents & grandmother. In 5 years, us being together will suddenly be acceptable by xkcd's rule.

I think you're kind of obligated to disagree with that.

Though it does sound like you don't quite grok the underlying wossnames of it, but it should be obvious that you're not in a similar place in life where you're getting used to the idea of being in your 30s and approaching middle age while she's still getting used to being an adult(in a major way if I'm reading your other post correctly), which is what most of the basis for that thing is anyway, compatibility based upon commonality of life place and experience.

Originally Posted by Dimonite

Mostly ways to meet women. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "what to look for", but advice there would probably be helpful as well.

Service organizations, hobbyist groups, other student organizations and clubs, volunteering to help out various interests such as the theatre can be a good to meet new and interesting and weird individuals.

Book clubs and writing groups if those are relevant to your interests.

Dancing has been mentioned, but I feel I should provide some sort of emphasis there because it's awesome and sexy. There might even be a student organization there as well.

[Thajocoth]

Originally Posted by Dimonite

Mostly ways to meet women. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "what to look for", but advice there would probably be helpful as well.

I've found that trying to meet women isn't really all that helpful. Hanging out with new people, whatever the setting, is how to meet them. 2/3 of the women I've dated, I met at a party at a mutual friend's house. It's a monthly party that a bunch of people go to to have fun. We shared the common interests that people at that party shared & hit it off real well. I did not intend to find any romantic partners there, and neither did the partners I found. (I met the other one online on a sort of dating site. She wanted a purely physical relationship. We weren't very compatible & it only lasted 6 weeks.)

Also, don't discount all the random places you wind up. If you're on a train, for example, you're surrounded by new people, many of which are bored & more open to conversation than they seem.

Try to appear outgoing & confident. With practice, you'll become more naturally outgoing & confident. These are desirable & attractive traits. If anyone fails to become at least a pleasant acquaintance, then at least you got to practice with them a bit. It's not like you'll ever see the ones again that turn down your friendliness. And for those that you have a pleasant chat with, they might not be a future mate, but you'll both walk away happier than before for the interaction.

Humans are naturally social creatures. I hope this helps you some.

Originally Posted by Coidzor

I think you're kind of obligated to disagree with that.

Though it does sound like you don't quite grok the underlying wossnames of it, but it should be obvious that you're not in a similar place in life where you're getting used to the idea of being in your 30s and approaching middle age while she's still getting used to being an adult(in a major way if I'm reading your other post correctly), which is what most of the basis for that thing is anyway, compatibility based upon commonality of life place and experience.

The idea that people have concrete places in life that they shift from one to the next on the same track as everyone else is odd to me. I've put absolutely no thought into the idea of being in my 30s. Both of those girls, 19 & 29, are finishing the last of their schooling within a month of one another (The younger in early November, the older in early December.)

I also skipped certain portions of emotional development that I've been going back to. When I graduated college & got my first game coding job, I had still not even dated anyone. Both girls have had far more experience with love than I have, so to say I'm further along just because I'm older is folly.

Imagine a magic school where most people learn all the level one spells before learning all the level 2 spells... But one guy learns all of the fire spells before learning anything else, then learns all of the lightning spells before anything else... He'll reach some milestones before others & some after them. It's the best analogy I can come up with.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Thajocoth

The idea that people have concrete places in life that they shift from one to the next on the same track as everyone else is odd to me. I've put absolutely no thought into the idea of being in my 30s. Both of those girls, 19 & 29, are finishing the last of their schooling within a month of one another (The younger in early November, the older in early December.)

Well, the main similarity it has to concrete is how rough it is. That's how generalizations work. If they have any basis they're at the roughest or second roughest level. That doesn't make them completely wrong, though. Just varies how many grains of salt are needed.

[arguskos]

ARRRRRRRRRRGH

Spoiler

I finally get my life where I want it, with everything halfway decent, and I manage to **** it all up. Please, someone help me stop the spiral into hell before I crash and die.

So, basically, the scenario is as follows. A few months ago, I started seeing a lovely girl (who will be called P) who I've been friends with for awhile. P and I see each other fairly rarely, but at least once a week.

Recently, I've realized that we share very little in common, and this is kinda freaking me out somewhat, due to our personalities. She is extremely noncommittal, I don't like to push or to take command for fear of dominating too much. She has a highly acerbic sense of humor, as do I, but not with my sigother. Our taste in media doesn't align (we both love music/movies/books, but not the same kinds as one another; she likes metal/horror/manga, I like jazz/sci-fi/fantasy). She likes going to bars and clubs and is big into the goth scene, I like staying home and reading a book. To top this off, I'm still a full-time student and am constantly flat-broke. She has never been a student and doesn't really value it all *that* much.

I'm freaking out because I want this to work, dammit. Despite all that's aligned against us being happy together, she's funny and smart and I love being in her presence and she claims to enjoy mine. We do share a few things: a love of art, Eddie Izzard, eating with friends, walks in parks/conservatories, and a glorious enjoyment of physical intimacy. I just don't know that it is enough.

tl;dr: My girl and I differ in personality and interests, but both want to make it work and neither of us knows how. Help out a pair of star-crossed lovers, if you'll forgive the reference.

[Herpestidae]

I see three options

Try something she likes. In return, she tries what you like.

Do something that isn't high up on either of your lists.

Join your interests. Eg Read/watch a fantasy manga/anime together (coughFMABROTHERHOODcough).

[noparlpf]

Good selection. Or you could try the manga, it's pretty sci-fi-fantasy-y-ish and one of the best manga I've ever read, anyway.

It's not like disparate interests is always bad. If you can find a couple of things you really connect on, that's great. But you don't want to become identical people, that's boring and also slightly creepy. So each of you might try the other's hobbies out, or you could both try some new things.

[arguskos]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

Good selection. Or you could try the manga, it's pretty sci-fi-fantasy-y-ish and one of the best manga I've ever read, anyway.

It's not like disparate interests is always bad. If you can find a couple of things you really connect on, that's great. But you don't want to become identical people, that's boring and also slightly creepy. So each of you might try the other's hobbies out, or you could both try some new things.

Here's the thing: we've mostly tried each other's hobbies already and found we didn't like the other person's thing.

That's the rub. I *cannot* enjoy horror (I freak out at graphic violence which is what she likes), she *cannot* enjoy action (she gets bored and turns it off). It goes like that for most of what we each individually like. And that's why I'm encountering issues.

The good idea is to try new stuff, but neither of us knows what that might be. We're not stupid, but we just can't think of anything to do, and it is becoming an issue.

[Thajocoth]

Originally Posted by arguskos

Here's the thing: we've mostly tried each other's hobbies already and found we didn't like the other person's thing.

I sat through a talk about learning to enjoy your partner's... interests. (I wound up taking it twice by coincidence of location.) While it wasn't aimed at general interests, I think it might be adaptable. This was not just how to tolerate them... But how to make them become something you ENJOY.

Disclaimer: This is essentially a self-reprogramming. You can't really undo it, so be certain that it's what you want.

Here's the basic steps she gave us:

Spoiler

#1 - They tell you they're interested in X. Be happy that they shared their interest with you. Don't commit to doing it, but don't put it down either.

#2 - Go online and look up any relevant safety information to alleviate any worries you might have about what they're into.

#3 - Go online & find a group of people into that. Ask them what they like about it. Try to find something about it that resonates with you somehow. Even if you find most of it scary or gross, there will likely be some aspect... Some angle you can find interesting.

#4 - I'm not really sure how to translate this step from what the talk was actually about to more general interests, but this step involved watching videos & looking at pictures of people doing the activity in question... And adding this into the pictures/videos that you normally look at or watch.

#5 - Again, I'm not really sure how to translate this step to general things... For a little while, enjoy only videos/pictures of that thing. Don't allow yourself that sort of enjoyment from another source... This strengthens your attachment to it.

#6 - Return to your partner & tell them about how you'd like to try the thing they're interested in. Use your own take on it, & try it together with this new appreciation for it.

I have no idea if that will help you or not. I've tried to adapt it as best I could, but I feel like I fell flat on steps 4 & 5.

[dehro]

uhm.. how about find common friends who enjoy both of your individual passions and spend time with them crisscrosssing info, opinions, banter .. and for the rest just pursue your own passions and keep the "together time" for when you do things together that aren't directly related to your hobbies?

[Morph Bark]

Does she like non-graphic horror? If so, try that. It might be stereotyping, but if she's gothic she likely likes vampire/werewolf/zombie movies. I used to hate those, but after a long time and watching some different kinds of them, I started to like them and now they're amongst some of my favourite kinds.

Or try sci-fi horror, like the Alien series.

Have either of you read any graphic novels? Might be that there's something in there for both of you. They're Japanese in origin, so their storytelling conventions are likely largely the same as those in manga, but without the comic aspect, which I figure might mostly be the part of what makes you not like manga?

The only other idea I got that didn't come up yet in others' posts was to start a band that plays the new genre of "jazz metal", including saxophones and electric guitars. Or electrically-amplified saxophones.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'm pretty sure there are already jazz bands with metal influence or metal bands with jazz influence.
Pretty sure Gov't Mule has some metal roots.

[dehro]

mmh I'd like however to point out that a quest for finding something you both like might be a good thing in terms of making an effort...but your life as a couple should revolve around more than your mutual or mutually diverse interests.

[Morph Bark]

Unless your religious and political views are on opposite ends in more ways than one you'll likely not run into major arguments regarding views on life.

...I mean, I'd include several more words besides "religious" and "political", but I forgot them at the moment, but I think you sort of get my point?

Basically, views on life are a bigger foundation for a relationship in the long term. Her being "extremely non-committal" seems like a bigger issue to me, but Arguskos and P seem to differ with me on that, so at least they're on the same page in that regard, which is good.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by arguskos

Here's the thing: we've mostly tried each other's hobbies already and found we didn't like the other person's thing.

That's the rub. I *cannot* enjoy horror (I freak out at graphic violence which is what she likes), she *cannot* enjoy action (she gets bored and turns it off). It goes like that for most of what we each individually like. And that's why I'm encountering issues.

The good idea is to try new stuff, but neither of us knows what that might be. We're not stupid, but we just can't think of anything to do, and it is becoming an issue.

I'm with you on horror. Ick.
I'm also with you on not being good at finding things to do. I took a bus from Boston to Philly to visit a friend and we sat on her couch looking at pictures of cats on the internet all day.

Originally Posted by Morph Bark

The only other idea I got that didn't come up yet in others' posts was to start a band that plays the new genre of "jazz metal", including saxophones and electric guitars. Or electrically-amplified saxophones.

That's a thing? That's awesome.

[gunnar11]

Even though I feel guilty about it, the first post said I could just ask away, so I will:

There's this guy I like from my class. He's 17 years old, I'm 18, and he's just.... wow. Anyway, some of you, or none of you may understand that I, being a guy myself, and still inside this gorgeous closet I build, can't just ask him if he likes guys.
My gaydar has never ever functioned once, so that's not an option either.
I really want to know if I have a shot or not, my looks as always being against me...
The only thing/hope that keeps me going is the fact that he hasn't ever had a girlfriend.
What do I do? How do I know who/what he's into. Why can't I get him out of my head and do I feel like a 13 year old girl fantasizing of Justin Beaver?

[Pyromancer999]

Originally Posted by gunnar11

Even though I feel guilty about it, the first post said I could just ask away, so I will:

There's this guy I like from my class. He's 17 years old, I'm 18, and he's just.... wow. Anyway, some of you, or none of you may understand that I, being a guy myself, and still inside this gorgeous closet I build, can't just ask him if he likes guys.
My gaydar has never ever functioned once, so that's not an option either.
I really want to know if I have a shot or not, my looks as always being against me...
The only thing/hope that keeps me going is the fact that he hasn't ever had a girlfriend.
What do I do? How do I know who/what he's into. Why can't I get him out of my head and do I feel like a 13 year old girl fantasizing of Justin Beaver?

Well, if you do end up going out with him, you're going to at least have to open the closet doors, to extend the analogy. Sort of hard to go out with another man if he doesn't know you're gay, even if he expresses interest.

A relatively safe way I know a friend found out that a friend used actually involved Justin Bieber. He walked up to the friend and said, "Quick! Justin Bieber, sexier as guy or girl?". The friend responded, "Guy!" before he could catch himself. Still, not necessarily an indicator, although the guy in question did turn out to be gay.

The simplest way, and the way I recommend, is to ask if he's into guys. It may be risky, but it's the most straightforward and effective way there is.

As for the fantasizing, that's infatuation. Happens to all of us, guy or girl, no matter what sex you're into.

Good luck with everything, and ends well.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by gunnar11

Even though I feel guilty about it, the first post said I could just ask away, so I will:

There's this guy I like from my class. He's 17 years old, I'm 18, and he's just.... wow. Anyway, some of you, or none of you may understand that I, being a guy myself, and still inside this gorgeous closet I build, can't just ask him if he likes guys.
My gaydar has never ever functioned once, so that's not an option either.
I really want to know if I have a shot or not, my looks as always being against me...
The only thing/hope that keeps me going is the fact that he hasn't ever had a girlfriend.
What do I do? How do I know who/what he's into. Why can't I get him out of my head and do I feel like a 13 year old girl fantasizing of Justin Beaver?

Talking to him, asking him questions, that sort of thing. Sounds like a crush or infatuation. These things sort themselves out with time, generally.

[Heliomance]

...wow. I wasn't expecting that.

I met an ex-girlfriend this evening. I went out with her for a couple of months three, four years ago. Then she completely withdrew from society, cut off all communication with everyone, and vanished. A few months later I decided we probably weren't going out any more and moved on, but I didn't see her again and nothing was ever resolved. I saw her tonight, and we caught up. It felt really good to get closure on that - find out why she left, and that one of her biggest regrets about it was leaving me in the dark like that. We chatted. It was nice.

I'm... not happy, happy is the wrong word. I'm content. It's good.

[Thajocoth]

It's good that you got closure. One less open thread.

[Coidzor]

I feel like beating my head against a wall and like I'm beating my head against a wall figuratively. So maybe I just want to make the figurative feeling literal.

I hate this so much. I haven't felt this hormonal since I was in high school.

[Mutant Sheep]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

I feel like beating my head against a wall and like I'm beating my head against a wall figuratively. So maybe I just want to make the figurative feeling literal.

I hate this so much. I haven't felt this hormonal since I was in high school.

Hormones? Those are fun. good luck.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Mutant Sheep

Hormones? Those are fun. good luck.

Yeah, it's that really annoying feeling too. Like I want to get into a fistfight and makeout at the same time.

[Thajocoth]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Yeah, it's that really annoying feeling too. Like I want to get into a fistfight and makeout at the same time.

There are people into that...

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Thajocoth

There are people into that...

And not only would I not be able to find those people at 1 AM, if I did, I'd just end up getting killed in some kind of hilarious misadventure and misunderstanding given my life up to this point.

[AtlanteanTroll]

So, the horrible love ... shape I was in and am trying to extricate myself from, was apparently made public to the entire volleyball team last Tuesday. I assume it will only spread at this point. I know who is responsible for this. They are a friend of a friend of one of the people involved at best.

Someone remind me why I can't stab them?

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

So, the horrible love ... shape I was in and am trying to extricate myself from, was apparently made pubic to the entire volleyball team last Tuesday. I know who is responsible for this. They are a friend of a friend of one of the people involved at best.

Someone remind me why I can't stab them?

Might want to fix that to "public" so no awkward comments arise.
You're not allowed to stab people because it's illegal or something like that. Also because bludgeoning weapons are more fun.

[Mutant Sheep]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

So, the horrible love ... shape I was in and am trying to extricate myself from, was apparently made pubic to the entire volleyball team last Tuesday. I know who is responsible for this. They are a friend of a friend of one of the people involved at best.

Someone remind me why I can't stab them?

Because, with her dying breathe, she'd be texting "omg Troll just stabbed me with a knife lolol ikr? But seriously, call someone, I'm bleeding out and he's monologuing about how I ruined his life, I think he might cut my head off or somethinxecs"

[AtlanteanTroll]

Heh. In all seriousness this could be a bit of an issue. One of the people involved already skips the afternoon school day so she can work (she currently is supporting herself) and now she's thinking about dropping out to avoid the bull**** and work full time.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

So, the horrible love ... shape I was in and am trying to extricate myself from, was apparently made public to the entire volleyball team last Tuesday. I assume it will only spread at this point. I know who is responsible for this. They are a friend of a friend of one of the people involved at best.

Someone remind me why I can't stab them?

Love pearshape?

The Holly one or the Julie one? Or something new and different and horrible?

Because if it's the Holly one they may have actually done you a favor, though why you're a worthwhile subject of gossip for the volleyball team and the rest of the school population is beyond me.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Love pearshape?

The Holly one or the Julie one?

Because if it's the Holly one they may have actually done you a favor, though why you're a worthwhile subject of gossip for the volleyball team and the rest of the school population is beyond me.

No. Neither. The Mary one. The shape is an arrow. I like(d) Haley. Haley liked Jacob and Mary. Jacob and Mary both liked Haley and now like each other. Julie isn't this love pearshape. And in all honesty I don't think I'm going to mess with it. I guess I'm still figuring that out though.

As for Haley she's still around and just really upset. And I feel bad for her. Because while she's nuts and I've actually doing a pretty good job of killing/shifting my romantic feelings, aside from this minor set back, she's still my friend.

It confuses me as to why my I'm a worthwhile gossip subject as well. I'm not popular in the Lets-Go-Get-Waste-At-My-House-Party sense, and yet, everyone does know who I am. My antics are generally well known throughout the school ... I've got this weird pseudo popularity. It's weird and now it's just pissing me off.